Third person view removal from SA discussion

[WrecklessMEDIC 129]

If they removed 3rd person I would stop playing. Pretty sure I'm not the only one.

[Lordsarito 42]

Why should everyone be forced to play the way you want to play?

 

If people want to play third person, let them play third person..

Edited January 3, 2014 by Lordsarito

[Sidewinder24 103]

If they removed 3rd person I would stop playing. Pretty sure I'm not the only one.

 

You're saying that like it is a bad thing. Game isn't for everyone.

[WrecklessMEDIC 129]

You're saying that like it is a bad thing. Game isn't for everyone.

Just saying some people prefer to play in 3rd person. If you remove that option then you change the game completely and a large chunk of players will leave.

It's the exact same thing if you removed 1st person. Guaranteed a lot players would quit if you took away 1st person as well.

Having options is what makes good games really great.

Edited January 3, 2014 by WrecklessMEDIC

[Gerandar 212]

You're saying that like it is a bad thing. Game isn't for everyone.

 

Well if the mod is any indication as to where the first person only servers are going to end up in standalone there going to be dead barren wastelands.

 

so removing 3rd person from the game you would end up with 5-10 servers and none of them would be full.

[Jolnir (DayZ) 5]

Having options is what makes good games really great.

 

Not when those options are basically wallhack, then they take a whole lot more from the game then they give back. there are probably a bunch of people that want combat logging to stay in the game because much like 3rd person view it can be/is being abused, if you want a really great game then all this abusable crap has to be removed otherwise it will be mediocre at best.

 

You really think people would still be playing games like counter strike if it had 3rd person view people could use to peek around corners? I doubt anyone would even remember it.  

btw you can actually play in first person in cs if the server has cheats enabled, because looking around corners without exposing your self really cant be called anything else then cheating.

[pvt_ammo@hotmail.com 164]

I'd have to sit on the fence on this one. I really like both. When it comes to ArmA3 It really depends on my gaming mood for that day. Sometimes I want to sit back and relax so third person would be my preference. Some days I want full on immersion, lights off, headphones on and face inches from screen, that would be when I play FPS only servers. 

 

So I don't think it should be one or the other, they should be both in, they both have their values, one gives a nice casual game style while the other definitely gives better immersion, but you should always give the player the choice to choose which they want to play. But they definitely need to be on separate hives because one gives an unfair advantage over the other for sure. 

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

There should just be an option to have one or the other for a server not both.

 

If you want third person then sure your camera is locked in third person at all times, if you want fpv then you only get fpv not both.

 

In other words, you want to break the game for 3rd person servers so they have to play 1st person? You probably already realize there are features that rely on 1st person; why even suggest this?

 

Anyway, can we please just let this thread die? They've already said 3rd person is not going to be removed. This dead horse was beaten to a pulp in the mod. If Dean had any intention of taking 3rd person out entirely, he could have done it a year and a half ago. Arguing about it now is just pissing into the wind.

Edited January 3, 2014 by ZedsDeadBaby

[MystoganXIX 78]

3rd person view imo should just be removed. That's just like, your opinion, man

 

But whether it gets removed or not, it can't stay as is. I discovered yesterday how people were able to always view my location during standoffs inside buildings. You can just go 3rd person and press Q or E into a wall. This makes your camera start clipping inside of the wall and with a little change of view, you can get some BS views of the building or even through other walls that you should not be able to see around, even in 3rd person perspective.

 

Maybe we can just have less of a top down 3rd person view and more of a straight forward. When trying to smash your camera up against a wall hoping to clip through it, the camera would instantly just be forced forward into your back turning into a rough 1st person view. Would still need to find a solution to peeping around corners though.

Edited January 3, 2014 by MystoganXIX

[tommes 331]

Well if the mod is any indication as to where the first person only servers are going to end up in standalone there going to be dead barren wastelands.

 

so removing 3rd person from the game you would end up with 5-10 servers and none of them would be full.

From what I hear about SA 1st person only servers have become quite popular. More and more players get aware of the issues with enabled 3rd person and act accordingly. That is quite pleasing and has given me back some hope for humanity.

[tommes 331]

In other words, you want to break the game for 3rd person servers so they have to play 1st person? You probably already realize there are features that rely on 1st person; why even suggest this?

To point out that you can't take out FP in a FPS sort of game. It's like saying "You love TPV so much, you sure won't need anything else...do you?" *evil grine*

FPV is the basis. The core. TPV is an addition you don't actually need. It's simply a crutch to get around the problems present technology has with presenting virtual environments. If we could link us into the matrix nobody wouldd even try to discuss something like 3rd person perspective. Nobody would even care about 3PP.

 

The whole discussion seemed moot, but it had some effect. 3PP:off seems to be a popular choice for server owners at present. Nonetheless 3PP should be fixed to something at least decent as well as 1PP should be improved as much as possible. If both is done right there won't be any need for seperate hives anymore.

[Ken Bean 175]

To point out that you can't take out FP in a FPS sort of game. It's like saying "You love TPV so much, you sure won't need anything else...do you?" *evil grine*

FPV is the basis. The core. TPV is an addition you don't actually need. It's simply a crutch to get around the problems present technology has with presenting virtual environments. If we could link us into the matrix nobody wouldd even try to discuss something like 3rd person perspective. Nobody would even care about 3PP.

The whole discussion seemed moot, but it had some effect. 3PP:off seems to be a popular choice for server owners at present. Nonetheless 3PP should be fixed to something at least decent as well as 1PP should be improved as much as possible. If both is done right there won't be any need for seperate hives anymore.

Tommes, first of sorry for that kind of name calling thing we had lately. This might have been due to the fact that this discussion already was an endless story in the mod, but besides of that, we may get along.

One problem in my opinion is the constant underlying outplay of one favour against the other. You try to proofe that 1st person only ist the only "justified" point of view. Well that's not correct. There are some debatable sideeffects of the 3rd person view, like clipping the camera through a wall or like getting in advantage by using it on close walls or sth to peek around.

I as well would be glad when such side effect could be minimised.

But on the other hand, getting into advantage can't just be called exploit.

See that sniper in the pine tree? - No? - He can see you. He's in the advantage. Exploit? Should pine trees be removed? What I'm trying to say is that there are different views and opinions on that matter. Most of the time it's PvP focused folks which complains about 3rd person.

That's being said, they have their point. But they are not the only ones who play that game.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Ken Bean

[lipemr 160]

Tommes, first of sorry for that kind of name calling thing we had lately. This might have been due to the fact that this discussion already was an endless story in the mod, but besides of that, we may get along.

One problem in my opinion is the constant underlying outplay of one favour against the other. You try to proofe that 1st person only ist the only "justified" point of view. Well that's not correct. There are some debatable sideeffects of the 3rd person view, like clipping the camera through a wall or like getting in advantage by using it on close walls or sth to peek around.

I as well would be glad when such side effect could be minimised.

But on the other hand, getting into advantage can't just be called exploit.

See that sniper in the pine tree? - No? - He can see you. He's in the advantage. Exploit? Should pine trees be removed? What I'm trying to say is that there are different views and opinions on that matter. Most of the time it's PvP focused folks which complains about 3rd person.

That's being said, they have their point. But they are not the only ones who play that game.

 

 

dont even try to compare camouflage to third person camera exploiters. The sniper on the pine tree is blended to the terrain, if you know his position, you can still shoot him.

 

A brat peeking behind a wall is hiding, you cant shoot him, you cant see him but he can see you, even if there's A FREAKING WALL between you.

 

I think the third person camera cant be improved from the way it is now, so i think it should be removed, and whiners gonna whine.

[Ken Bean 175]

dont even try to compare camouflage to third person camera exploiters. The sniper on the pine tree is blended to the terrain, if you know his position, you can still shoot him.

A brat peeking behind a wall is hiding, you cant shoot him, you cant see him but he can see you, even if there's A FREAKING WALL between you.

I tried to point out that getting in advantage is not an exploit per se. Yes, there's a difference between a wall and a bush which I'm aware of. Edited January 3, 2014 by Ken Bean

[flex 1]

Is this how 1st person lover ended up playing on 3rd person server in the mod? Yet making dozens of topics demanding 3rd person to be removed?

Well thinking about it, I believe I just stick with the habbit to prefer things I like over things I do not like. This for some reason played out well. :-)

 

maybe you misinterpereted my comment or didn't read it... no clue what you are trying to tell me!

[n.mettala@gmail.com 5]

But try remeber this not only FPS game, DayZ also includes RPG elements...

 

I love watch my "character" gear, then 3rd person view is great.
Maybe they would make it so that you can usen 3rd-person view when you stand, but when you start move it changes to first-person... or somekind pause between views, so you cant use it on fire-fight.
 

[lipemr 160]

I tried to point out that getting in advantage is not an exploit per se. Yes, there's a difference between a wall and a bush which I'm aware of.

 

it is an exploit when the advantage is unfair. Using a wallhack to see people through walls on any FPS would be less of an exploit than it is on dayz?

[dirtyzerg 4]

because forcing people to play the way you want to play always works out and everything is fine ?

 

really this is a bad idea..if you want first person only then add a server flag to disable third person at server owners choice, forcing the entire community to play how you think the game should be played will do nothing but deter people from both playing and buying; word of mouth is powerful among gamers especially..and when probably over..no..WAY OVER half the playerbase goes about telling potential buyers not to buy it because some elitist have convinced devs to cater to the playstyle they enjoy will not end well

 

Here is a better example..if its such a good idea then how come like 80% of first person only servers on the mod..remain empty ? exactly my point

Edited January 3, 2014 by dirtyzerg

[twinturbonet (DayZ) 294]

They already mentioned that 3rd person will be removable on HIVE servers... why are we still debating FPV vs TPV?  

It is clearly obvious (48 pages later) that half the room likes TPV and the other half likes FPV, there is no amount of convincing that will turn either side.  

[Intactus 128]

I dont  know why i even bother... This argument has been going on for the last two years already.

In my opinion it is simply not the "right" way to be able to wallhack and see things without exposing yourself etc. and i do enjoy the 1st person servers out there for their fairness and intensity...

Nevertheless, i cannot argue the fact that playing in 3rd person is just simply so much more enjoyable and convenient because of the clunkiness and limitations of 1st person.

 

Here is a better example..if its such a good idea then how come like 80% of first person only servers on the mod..remain empty ? exactly my point

The reason is simply because playing in 3rd person as it stands now, and was in the mod, is much more "enjoyable".
And i don't mean from the PVP point of view, even if the game was void of any pvp, people still would prefer the 3rd person in this game.

Think about playing games like Crysis of Farcry in 3rd person? Never. Nobody would do that. That's the issue here. And i do hope the Devs (and some of you) understand this.
In many other this type of games the 3rd person is simply the "option" you can go for but nobody really cares about it and here it is vice versa.

So long story short...

This argument is going to nowhere. We should put the energy towards:

a.) Figuring out the exact problems of 1st person gameplay and find solutions to make it as appealing as 3rd person. The gunplay etc. is clearly more convenient in 1stp so all we need to do is find a way to make the everyday tasks, exploring etc. a better experience.

b.) Figure out a way to keep the 3rd person but effectively restrict it's viability in "cheating" as in peek around corners, over the obstacles and behind your back etc. without any risk. Come up with a camera mechanics that limits its exploitability.

I will put some time in this since i don't exatly like the idea of strictly divided playerbase and servers etc. I dont like the elitism and friction it brings.
Now help me out here. Ideas. Let's make this a constructive thread instead of the endless flame wars shall we.
:beans:

Edited January 3, 2014 by Intactus

[Intactus 128]

Ok. Something to get going with...

Think of Resident Evil 5. I wouldn't play that in 1st person if given the option.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eHGY3ojrx8

There's a good example of 3rd person camera that's nice to play with, pretty much doesn't allow you to cheat keeping the intensity intact but still providing most of the aspects people are looking for when 3rd person. The camera is quite level with the players head, so no peeking over walls in electro. (You know you can only do this in Dayz if you stand upright right next to a wall) No cheating around corners since the camera pretty much stays behind your back so the toon is first around the corner and THEN the camera. Here, you would actually have the advantage IN 1ST PERSON. You automagically dont see a person creeping up behind your back either. And for the balance: Every little gain you get around corners etc is effectively negated by the fact that it only works in one direction. Here turning left leaves you at equal disatvantage because of your toon blocking the wiew.

I'd have that exact camera in Dayz with no objections. (And there's even a few gameplay mechanics that i'd definitely consider borrowing over..) ;)

That was the best i could come up with. You're surely smarter than me, aren't you?
Now, make better suggestion! Let's get the devs some ideas of how we'd actually like to play this so nobody has to mope in the corner and point fingers.
 

Edited January 3, 2014 by Intactus

[Ken Bean 175]

it is an exploit when the advantage is unfair. Using a wallhack to see people through walls on any FPS would be less of an exploit than it is on dayz?

It's not unfair, since it is a legit game feature which everyone could utilise. There also is no unfair advantage because walls are there for everyone and you can counter that with superior moving tactics.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Ken Bean

[derpdiggler 69]

How is this thread even going when there are first person only servers, and the fpo servers will be getting their own database?

[tommes 331]

But try remeber this not only FPS game, DayZ also includes RPG elements...

 

I love watch my "character" gear, then 3rd person view is great.

Maybe they would make it so that you can usen 3rd-person view when you stand, but when you start move it changes to first-person... or somekind pause between views, so you cant use it on fire-fight.

 

1. RPG does not mean 3PP enabled!

2. You can look at your character in inventory screen.

3. "I love to" is no valid reason to keep a multiplayer game breaking mechanic.

 

And once again: Rocket promised to fix 3PP. I guess there's just not enough time at the moment to take care of that and bugfixing. Therefore he decided to take the shorter route with seperate hives.

[tommes 331]

 forcing the entire community to play how you think the game should be played will do nothing but deter people from both playing and buying; word of mouth is powerful among gamers especially..and when probably over..no..WAY OVER half the playerbase goes about telling potential buyers not to buy it because some elitist have convinced devs to cater to the playstyle they enjoy will not end well

Yeah...because there are not enough people buying 1st person only shooter games...dream on, dude!

 

And once again: The fucking devs can fucking make you fucking play the fucking game the fuck they want!