December Round-up: ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE SA

[Frytek 130]

That lack of info today feels like a quiet moment before the storm.

[Katana67 2907]

well total square footage of exploration just grew by a very very large number when you consider

 

#1 most buildings are enterable

 

#2 there are a lot more buildings

 

#3 the buildings are much larger (high rises)

 

so even if the map is only slightly larger - there are much much more square footage to explore and hide in - you could have 4 or 5 people in the same high rise and never see each other

 

That's true, but I'm talking in terms of potential player distribution throughout the map... it will be the same or denser. It doesn't matter that a player's running around in a building in Pustoshka, I'm still gonna' have to shoot him. Add more players, forces more encounters. I like to be able to think for a minute before having to fight again.

 

Overall square footage of the map boundaries will not change. (Granted, I've not seen the new areas of the map, but what I have seen leads me to believe that they're just putting cities in the northern wilderness).

Edited December 10, 2013 by Katana67

[Katana67 2907]

You said something about immersion. But if you fly over the wall and there is simply nothing, how can you call that an improve to the immersion?

 

That's a HIGHLY specific scenario. For the majority of people sitting on the ground who approach the wall, it will just be a wall. It won't be immersive for everyone in every scenario, but it will be more immersive than a blank piece of paper at the end of the Mona Lisa.

[zfleming12 395]

That lack of info today feels like a quiet moment before the storm.

I think its more now just more work needs to be done.

[Wayze 549]

That's a HIGHLY specific scenario. For the majority of people sitting on the ground who approach the wall, it will just be a wall. It won't be immersive for everyone in every scenario, but it will be more immersive than a blank piece of paper at the end of the Mona Lisa.

And who built the wall? Do you suggest that outside of the wall everything is fine?

Edited December 10, 2013 by Wayze

[oompah 58]

no i thought the map did grow by a fair amount right?  Didn't they also add an island? (can't remember the name - it's the PVP map in the mod) - oh it's Utes

 

even without all the new buildings and such the map still is like 20% larger - amiwrong?

[Katana67 2907]

And who built the wall? Do you suggest that outside of the wall everything is fine?

 

No, in fact I suggested the opposite. Having breaks in the wall would lead to the possibility of the infection breaking out of Chernarus.

 

As to who built the wall, I dunno, bordering Russia? NATO? WHO? <Insert whatever in-universe analog you want>?. Take your pick.

[Katana67 2907]

no i thought the map did grow by a fair amount right?  Didn't they also add an island? (can't remember the name - it's the PVP map in the mod) - oh it's Utes

 

even without all the new buildings and such the map still is like 20% larger - amiwrong?

 

If you consider the map in terms of player distribution, it will be the same or denser (given that they're putting more urban areas in).

 

In an anecdote, you won't be encountering people running in the woods so much as you will be encountering people in buildings. The overall rate of encounters doesn't change as per the overall size of the map.

 

Who cares if the player is in or merely next to the house, the player is still there.

[oompah 58]

also the map is now broken up with more usable locations, more towns, more buildings - not as much dead space - so while basically 70% of the old map was ignored - since it was just woods, now that number is much smaller - it's almost reversed (if I remember right) - now only 30% of the map is woods.

 

So basically the player population will be a lot less dense since not everyone will be in one of 5 hotspots.

 

50 players on the new cherno now sounds a lot more naked than in the mod

[Wayze 549]

No, in fact I suggested the opposite. Having breaks in the wall would lead to the possibility of the infection breaking out of Chernarus.

 

As to who built the wall, I dunno, bordering Russia? NATO? WHO? <Insert whatever in-universe analog you want>?. Take your pick.

So there is a highly contagious virus that is probably the biggest threat to humanity every occured and the russians built a f*cking wall? ^^

 

Something like that would take probably years. Why risk that and waste so much time if you can turn the whole place into dust, problem solved? Nobody would build a wall.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Wayze

[oompah 58]

I'm like you though, I want player versus player interaction to be rare and suspenseful - I don't want to constantly be running into people

[Katana67 2907]

also the map is now broken up with more usable locations, more towns, more buildings - not as much dead space - so while basically 70% of the old map was ignored - since it was just woods, now that number is much smaller - it's almost reversed (if I remember right) - now only 30% of the map is woods.

 

So basically the player population will be a lot less dense since not everyone will be in one of 5 hotspots.

 

50 players on the new cherno now sounds a lot more naked than in the mod

 

More usable/attractive locations + more players = higher player distribution across the map.

 

I'm not talking about exploration here folks. Buildings unto themselves do not add feet to the two-dimensional boundaries of the map. They encourage folks to spread out and thus you will be encountering people more often. Density does not necessarily mean "centralization" or "concentrated" if you look at it from an overall perspective.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Katana67

[Katana67 2907]

So there is a highly contagious virus that is probably the biggest threat to humanity every occured and the russians built a f*cking wall? ^^

 

Something like that would take probably years. Why risk that and waste so much time if you can turn the whole place into dust, problem solved? Nobody would build a wall.

 

See every fortified border in history. See every zombie apocalypse in fiction. See quarantine doctrine.

 

If you're applying only reality to a fictional circumstance, you're already looking at it from a problematic angle.

 

DayZ wouldn't be a very fun game if they glassed Chernarus. Hence why applying only pragmatism isn't always helpful.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Katana67

[oompah 58]

well I think your point is you dont want to encountering people as often, and I agree - pvp experiences are best when they are rare.

 

Probably in the SA players will spend more time in the closest area to them rather than all running to NWAF

 

it's a good debate though, will 100 players on the new cherno feel the same as 50 on the old cherno?

 

 

Would you rather play the game knowing there is a high probability of seeing players in certain spots and very low probablity of seeing players in other spots, or see the entire probability smooth out over the entire map.

 

interesting disucssion really, because i think the pvp stuff early on was really really engaging and hooked people.  I know for a long time i woudl avoid starry and NW because I was scurrred of getting killed, then later I would go there looking for action. 

 

Seems like in the new cherno you might more often see people at less predictable places

Edited December 10, 2013 by oompah

[Katana67 2907]

it's a good debate though, will 100 players on the new cherno feel the same as 50 on the old cherno?

 

I think 50 players is more than enough. I encounter people.

 

All...

 

The...

 

Effing...

 

Time...

 

The problem will be exacerbated with a smaller "Wilderness" in which I already encounter a ton of players.

[Grabarz (DayZ) 95]

*snip*

 

 

They keep eating it...

 

If this is another cocktease, I'm gonna play german piano in this very room..., Sir!

[OrLoK 16182]

If this is another cocktease, I'm gonna play german piano in this very room..., Sir!

Not a tease, but very definitely not official. Its just fan art.

[Wayze 549]

See every fortified border in history. See every zombie apocalypse in fiction. See quarantine doctrine.

 

If you're applying only reality to a fictional circumstance, you're already looking at it from a problematic angle.

 

DayZ wouldn't be a very fun game if they glassed Chernarus. Hence why applying only pragmatism isn't always helpful.

I have never seen a movie or read a book where someone has built a 30km long wall (out of what?!) to prevent a virus from spreading. You are assuming that the virus did spread from chernarus, the source is chernarus.

So, if authoritys have the time to build a 30km wall, how the hell did this virus even spread? If the virus is dangerous, it HAS to spread WORLDWIDE within a very short time (days/weeks) otherwise people will have it extremly easy to prevent it from spreading. So, the existance of a wall ensures practicly that the virus did not spread outside of the wall (otherwise the wall would never have been built).

And as chernarus is at the coast, what the hell is a wall going to do about people trying to escape? Look at 28 weeks later. Perfect example. Virus spreads, what are they doing? Smoke the whole area. Everything is going to be exterminated. The risk is just to high to let anything survive.

I mean, there is another movie, I don't won't to spoil it, but the whole place was nuked after the outbreak. I really don't know what you are referring to. This is why I just don't see any point in chernarus being the "outbreak city", because this is most likely the first place being destroyed.

And why would they make the area so big? A wall around the cities would be more than enough.

[weparo 613]

Story aside and with all due respect, that wall idea is BS imho. :)

 

I'd still vote for the forrest idea, because :

 

- It's my idea

- You can't just store your vehicle outside of the map. Exept for cars, but the go soo slow, nobody would go too far

- It looks better.

- People might even be afraid of getting lost in the forrest and stay clear of it.

- It won't cause an FPS issue like somone was afraid. With a view distance of, say 1.6k in the mod (SA will be more I hope) it doesn't matter on wether you're standing in the middle of a 3x3 km forrest or a 300x300 km one. Only what's inside of the view distance will be rendered. Otherwise I'd get cherno's FPS across the whole map :P

 

THB, I've always liked ARMAs borders. Because there are none, yet you are limited. It just feels so much better :) The only problem with it in the mod was that people would fly their stuff out there so that nobody could steal it. Make it a forrest and that won't work.

 

 

Weparo

[Katana67 2907]

I have never seen a movie or read a book where someone has built a 30km long wall (out of what?!) to prevent a virus from spreading. You are assuming that the virus did spread from chernarus, the source is chernarus.

So, if authoritys have the time to build a 30km wall, how the hell did this virus even spread? If the virus is dangerous, it HAS to spread WORLDWIDE within a very short time (days/weeks) otherwise people will have it extremly easy to prevent it from spreading. So, the existance of a wall ensures practicly that the virus did not spread outside of the wall (otherwise the wall would never have been built).

And as chernarus is at the coast, what the hell is a wall going to do about people trying to escape? Look at 28 weeks later. Perfect example. Virus spreads, what are they doing? Smoke the whole area. Everything is going to be exterminated. The risk is just to high to let anything survive.

I mean, there is another movie, I don't won't to spoil it, but the whole place was nuked after the outbreak. I really don't know what you are referring to. This is why I just don't see any point in chernarus being the "outbreak city", because this is most likely the first place being destroyed.

And why would they make the area so big? A wall around the cities would be more than enough.

 

Right, I am assuming that. Just as you are assuming that

- A wall is impractical in quarantining an area

- Reality should dictate fiction explicitly

- There is still a society left to nuke Chernarus in your hypothetical scenario

- That society viewed Chernarus as a wholly lost cause and did not try and offer a cure to infection

 

I'd direct your attention to the preceding movie of 28 Days Later, whereby they didn't nuke the United Kingdom. They quarantined it. This quarantine was provided for by a natural sea boundary. Insert "man-made wall", and you've got that out of your way.

 

I'd also direct you to World War Z and Land of the Dead, whereby a wall/moat was used to cordon off a large area. It doesn't matter if it's a city or country, whatever area is deemed as a potentially infected area requires quarantine. Put walls around Chernogorsk and Elektro for all I care, that would actually enhance the so-called realism argument you're making whereby they have several contingencies of quarantine should the city-level quarantine fail.

 

You're applying a real world hypothetical to a fictional (and finite) map to which it is not applicable. I merely suggested the wall as a means of plausibly explaining the unfinished edges of Chernarus.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Katana67

[oompah 58]

you see people a lot now because everyone is at starry, the airfields, or the other cities along the coast.  How often do you see people in vybor?

 

I understand your concern of player density but you underestimate the raw size of the map - it seems "small" to you because everyone is condensed, the current map might as well be 50% smaller because so much of it is dead space

Edited December 10, 2013 by oompah

[Katana67 2907]

you see people a lot now because everyone is at starry, the airfields, or the other cities along the coast.  How often do you see people in vybor?

 

I understand your concern of player density but you underestimate the raw size of the map - it seems "small" to you because everyone is condensed, the current map might as well be 50% smaller because so much of it is dead space

 

But I don't really go into the "dense" portions of the map though, and I still encounter people all of the time. I see people in Vybor constantly by the way. This is all anecdotal of course. But having interiors increasing the available space to the player, does not therefore add space to the map in terms of player distribution. Again, if you're in a building or beside a building, you're still in that place.

 

I'll use the Overwatch server I play on as an example. There are barracks dispersed throughout the map, in areas which are normally devoid of anything valuable. Replace barracks with cities, and you make for a much more distributed player population. Couple that with more players and it only compounds that distribution.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Katana67

[weparo 613]

I don't think a forest would work simply because it might be too resource intensive to render exponentially more trees than is already being rendered. Likewise it's not really a boundary then if it's made into a forest, it's just a deception.

 

See above :)

 

 

Which brings me to the crux of the issue, which I've stated before. Chernarus ain't that big. 50 players is pushing it in my opinion.

 

Nooo! ;) You could fit 150 players in the map :P Have you seen cherno's size in the stream? you can pack 30 guys in there and they won't meet every half hour! 30 more in elektro, 20 in berenzino, 70 across the rest of the map. Especially if Utes is added! Of course that'd be really the limit, and I doubt the server could handle it :( But gameplay wise it wouldn't be an issue.

 

In the mod, true. but that's because 30 guys are in either elektro or cherno, and both are very small compared to the stream version

[Katana67 2907]

Nooo! ;) You could fit 150 players in the map :P Have you seen cherno's size in the stream? you can pack 30 guys in there and they won't meet every half hour! 30 more in elektro, 20 in berenzino, 70 across the rest of the map. Especially if Utes is added! Of course that'd be really the limit, and I doubt the server could handle it :( But gameplay wise it wouldn't be an issue.

 

In the mod, true. but that's because 30 guys are in either elektro or cherno, and both are very small compared to the stream version

 

I don't ever go into Elektro or Cherno. I can count on my hands how many times I've been there in a year. I still encounter tons of people in the Wilderness and elsewhere.

 

That and it's my impression that Utes will be difficult to access.

 

What I'm trying to say to all of you, is that there's more to the map size than just square kilometers and accessible areas. It's about where the players go and what draws them there. More players = more players in X area. If the overall area does not expand, the overall density/distribution will increase if more players are added.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Katana67

[AnarchyBrownies 1383]

I always thought the map felt small in some ways because everyone is coming and going from the same places on the map. If you add more value to all parts of the map then you're going to run into people less. As of now it's not just the specific cities or areas themselves that are cluttered, but all the routes to them as well.