November Round-up

[Wayze 549]

It is too late for me :( Also the Xbox One is shit and most features were a lie.

My PS4 just came :)

[sabre05 351]

PC Master race.

[felthat 84]

gamecube ftw

[Aporis 422]

Hardcore gaming master race? Why own one when you can have them all!

[Quanaril (DayZ) 114]

Last 3 Fridays/Saturdays we had huge updates. I think the reason there is a lack of updates (even screenshots) because maybe (yes just speculating on a solid evidence!) they have been delaying it to today/tomorrow.

[Aporis 422]

Last 3 Fridays/Saturdays we had huge updates. I think the reason there is a lack of updates (even screenshots) because maybe (yes just speculating on a solid evidence!) they have been delaying it to today/tomorrow.

Oh lack of updates eh? this one came under an hour ago.

"Checking the placement of the new hay shacks in the forests of Chernarus, they are pretty tricky to find. #DayZDaily

- Ivan Buchta"

source: https://twitter.com/IvanBuchta/status/406412639418347520

Edited November 29, 2013 by Aporis

[twinturbonet (DayZ) 294]

I'm not going to front, I was actually hoping to get on the forums and see "it's out, it's out!!!"  LOL

[Tempus (DayZ) 1062]

Oh lack of updates eh? this one came under an hour ago.

<le snip>

 

Also, these from reddit:

 

Looting System

A trace is done to see if you can see the item. This trace (raycast) is performed from the perspective of the player, and can be blocked by the view geometry of any object in the way. This means that you might need to be crouched or prone to be able to "quick access" an object. The system is far from perfect but personally, I think the new inventory system is really fantastic, it's probably my favorite part of the standalone overall and creates an entirely different experience. However your mileage may vary...

Takes so long to get in a DayZ server

 

One of the biggest problems is that in order to enable Join-in-progress (JIP) the server keeps a log of things that happen. All this data, for the whole map, is sent to a player when they are connecting. This can be extremely substantial, and very demanding not just on bandwidth but on processing power (both for the server and client). This is one of the reasons that the network bubble is so important for standalone, and why we have focused so much of our development on architectural issues like this.

So they are pretty silent, but they do still exist. Also, no release date there. #conspiracyitshabbening

Edited November 29, 2013 by Tempus

[Katana67 2907]

Oh lack of updates eh? this one came under an hour ago.

"Checking the placement of the new hay shacks in the forests of Chernarus, they are pretty tricky to find. #DayZDaily

- Ivan Buchta"

 

Very cool.

 

Something that's been eating at me. None of these buildings, even though they look great, are significant yet. Sure, they'll spawn loot (ostensibly) but unto themselves, they're just containers of loot and nothing more. You could of course, make the case that they're an enhancement to the landscape usable to the player. They are.

 

But they do not affect the player in any real sense. I guess what I'm getting at is that there's no benefit in being sheltered or having shelter. You go into a house and exit once you're done. There is no incentive to stay in the house. Which also brings me to construction.

 

Improving shelter is contingent on a few systems being implemented (as well as more I'm sure)

 

Weather

This would create a need for shelter, in that your condition (disease vulnerability, heat loss/management, fatigue, item condition, etc.) would deteriorate rapidly if one is exposed to the elements for too long. Temperature is not the only threat to human life. Rainstorms, wind, snowstorms can exacerbate the effects of fatigue and exposure. I'm sure Dean could sympathize with this one. This used to be significant (at least for me) when in the mod entering a building increased your temperature recovery.

 

Shelter

After the "weather" system (which is half-way implemented with temperature) one would require tangible benefits to staying indoors or under cover. I think temperature recovery is a good start, but it needs to be made more unforgiving as a mechanic in the first place. I'm not saying that if you venture out on a cold day you should freeze to death within fifteen minutes. But nightfall, on a cold night, you should be seeking shelter or moving from shelter to shelter.

 

Construction

Doors, walls, planks, fences, etc. I think they should start out slow, but in a way that benefits the player immediately. I've always been of the school of thought that DayZ requires a construction mechanic which allows players to fortify existing buildings. In my paltry understanding of programming/the needs of DayZ, I've always thought it to be more efficient and applicable to just come up with fortification templates for existing buildings. I don't think building a bunker somewhere or building a cabin should be the last and only form of construction. I mean, we're going to have villages/cities full of enterable residential housing. Why not have those buildings be able to be boarded up? I'm not saying make high-value buildings like barracks or apartment buildings be able to be boarded up (I mean, maybe). So long as there is an appropriate counter to every fortification, I think this system would work well.

 

Some small caveats

- Campfires should be able to be created indoors again. I don't know if a "smoke" mechanic is called for, whereby smoke builds inside a building without proper ventilation. Or, if it should require different materials? But it should be possible.

- Storage containers need to be able to be placed indoors and provide for persistent loot storage. Again, I think this all goes back to them making up their minds on what is persistent across servers and what is not.

- Doors need to be able to be opened/closed on all buildings which have them. Those new farm huts, which look great, don't seem to have closeable doors. They're just permanently fixed open.

- I'm not sure if this'll be a problem in SA, but zombies actually need to RESPECT closed doors and walls. If it's an unfortified door, I'd be in support of them breaking it open after a while. But they shouldn't just walk/clip through the door.

[Skeety 57]

It is too late for me :( Also the Xbox One is shit and most features were a lie.

What features do you speak of ?

[oompah 58]

I don't know for sure but I would expect there are some longer range plans to make buildings a bit more useful.  Things like being able to lock doors and build barricades.  It would be really cool to find that little building and see there is a padlock on the door.  maybe you could hack it off with an axe (which would create a lot of noise), maybe that would break that axe and fail - who knows.  But it would add a layer of discovery, to me that is what the game is all about. (especially if you could look in a window and see some rare loot or a tent inside the building)

 

If you think about the size of the world and the fact building can climb vertically and add tons of new square footage in that regard; you start to wonder about the possibilities with buildings and the impact on the server to keep track of potential bases inside of buildings.  I mean technically they could add a building that only takes up a 10 x 10 footprint on the ground but climbs 20 stories straight up with a tent full of loot on each floor.

 

It will be interesting to see how they progress with bases

Edited November 29, 2013 by oompah

[Grabarz (DayZ) 95]

Yeah, would be great if some buildings were locked and could only entered by destroying the lock.

Where a crowbar would of course be the most useful item.

Or one could find a book about lockpicking, find some wire and do it that way, which would take longer but create less noise.

[Aporis 422]

Very cool.

 

Something that's been eating at me. None of these buildings, even though they look great, are significant yet. Sure, they'll spawn loot (ostensibly) but unto themselves, they're just containers of loot and nothing more. You could of course, make the case that they're an enhancement to the landscape usable to the player. They are.

 

But they do not affect the player in any real sense. I guess what I'm getting at is that there's no benefit in being sheltered or having shelter. You go into a house and exit once you're done. There is no incentive to stay in the house. Which also brings me to construction.

 

Improving shelter is contingent on a few systems being implemented (as well as more I'm sure)

 

Weather

This would create a need for shelter, in that your condition (disease vulnerability, heat loss/management, fatigue, item condition, etc.) would deteriorate rapidly if one is exposed to the elements for too long. Temperature is not the only threat to human life. Rainstorms, wind, snowstorms can exacerbate the effects of fatigue and exposure. I'm sure Dean could sympathize with this one. This used to be significant (at least for me) when in the mod entering a building increased your temperature recovery.

 

Shelter

After the "weather" system (which is half-way implemented with temperature) one would require tangible benefits to staying indoors or under cover. I think temperature recovery is a good start, but it needs to be made more unforgiving as a mechanic in the first place. I'm not saying that if you venture out on a cold day you should freeze to death within fifteen minutes. But nightfall, on a cold night, you should be seeking shelter or moving from shelter to shelter.

Well the Namalsk mod has something similiar to what you described so I would not see too hard to make it work on Standalone, as they have the full tools and nothing less.

[Aporis 422]

Yeah, would be great if some buildings were locked and could only entered by destroying the lock.

Where a crowbar would of course be the most useful item.

Or one could find a book about lockpicking, find some wire and do it that way, which would take longer but create less noise.

I would think locked doors would be breakable with crowbar, locked doors that have Padlocks on them would require something more, maybe a blow torch?

[PhilB 230]

I'm not a huge supporter of base building, although think there is something that could be done. I'd like first to see as much done as possible within the sphere of camouflage and hiding.

 

I may own a vehicle on a server and let's say, for example, I go on a business trip for two weeks (irl). Well that's great for me to know my car is totally secure that whole time I'm away but I still feel like I'm robbing the server and the players on that server of an important playable item.

 

I see this problem on well worn Epoch servers. If you are new to one of these Epoch servers, one can find it unnaturally frustrating because one is locked out of a great many normal buildings with valuable loot because folks have boarded them all up. And it's not like they out competed you. They simply started playing that server before you did. Your best option is to start on a relatively empty server where that hasn't happened yet. But then you're all by yourself on this empty server, hoping it will eventually attract a player base.

 

Also, if you allow a mechanic that easily counters a locked building, then you sorta negate the whole premise. One decides it is better to well hide items as opposed to storing them in a building that is relatively easy to break into. Unless it is Dubrovka, lol, no one goes there . . . so it is like locking it in a building and hiding it at the same time! lol

 

I don't mind if my base get raped every once in awhile, but not every 3 hours like in a hive server. I don't mind if someone steals my well hidden heli after a few days, but not literally 20 minutes after I log off. 

 

Anyway, I think we should see what a lack of scripting, no duping and an expanded map do to mitigate this before we start seriously considering base building. I suspect the issue might not be as significant as it seems.

Edited November 29, 2013 by PhilB

[PhilB 230]

 

Construction

Doors, walls, planks, fences, etc. I think they should start out slow, but in a way that benefits the player immediately. I've always been of the school of thought that DayZ requires a construction mechanic which allows players to fortify existing buildings. In my paltry understanding of programming/the needs of DayZ, I've always thought it to be more efficient and applicable to just come up with fortification templates for existing buildings. I don't think building a bunker somewhere or building a cabin should be the last and only form of construction. I mean, we're going to have villages/cities full of enterable residential housing. Why not have those buildings be able to be boarded up? I'm not saying make high-value buildings like barracks or apartment buildings be able to be boarded up (I mean, maybe). So long as there is an appropriate counter to every fortification, I think this system would work well.

 

 

 

Werd. Imagine yourself in this situation in real life. Are you gonna build an entirely new cabin or fortify an existing building? Surely the latter.

 

Katana, I'm fairly sure there is a door on that hut in screenshot Aporis shared. Look closely you can see the door casts a shadow behind it on the wall :) 

[scaramoosh 162]

What features do you speak of ?

 

Like being able to do P90X or Insanity on the Fitness app.......

 

Nope you get one workout and then it directs you to the DVD......

[oompah 58]

However they end up allowing buildings to be "secured" they need to allow them to be breached - because like someone said you don't just want people hoarding resources and jamming up the server or denying other players access to them forever.

 

They need a balance, if players can only use tents for storing items (or cars) and those tents/cars aren't secure people will stop using them, if they are 100% secure then we have the problem mentioned above.  So how can you make long term storage more secure than tents and cars and less secure than locks and codes etc...  You can add locks into the game  - maybe the owner has to carry a key to open it and maybe there is some chance to break a lock with a crowbar or axe, trying to bust locks must be risky, creating lots of noise and have a chance of breaking the item without breaking the lock.  Or some very heavy duty camouflaged areas that can be hidden well with a small footprint.

 

To me this is a really critical part of the experience and I hope they can figure out a way to make it worthwhile and useful but not over powered.

[oompah 58]

at the same time with the lock and key solution you may find a dead body with a key - say there is a rumor of a building up north locked with loads of loot, do you risk a journey up there at night with your newly found key to try to bust in?  Trying to breach the lock with a weapon should attract loads of zombies and alert other humans, making the whole process very interesting.

 

Are players hiding near this building waiting for the owner to open up, then ambush him

 

in my mind this entire long term storage question invites a whole ton of exciting game play potential

[RoKa89ARG 6]

i think rocket said that the idea was to make underground structures, i think its the best soultion. but i don't know how the hell are they going to make that happen without a minecrafty, blocky world...

locks, barricades won't work because people will always use them to troll, the same that happened with sand bags, tank traps, wire fencing.

[Katana67 2907]

Katana, I'm fairly sure there is a door on that hut in screenshot Aporis shared. Look closely you can see the door casts a shadow behind it on the wall :)

 

I wasn't referring to the "Hay Shack" depicted in the screenshot. The "Farm Huts" I'm talking about are the ones we've got in game already that are pretty much just sheds, but they're not open in the mod. Rocket enters one and changes his axe out for a fire extinguisher in the latest devblog.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Katana67

[esnoubro 10]

I hope release goes 24th December and with this is more that my christmas gift.

[Katana67 2907]

So, to everyone discussing locks, Epoch, and whatnot I will say this.

 

Everything requires a counter.

 

In Epoch, bases are indestructible and you're SOL without the passcodes. This is a dumb system.

 

If one puts up a locked wooden door, one should require a wood axe to chop it down. Or a suitable breaching round.

 

If one puts up a metal door with a heavy padlock, one requires a satchel charge to blow it up or a welding kit to deconstruct it.

 

These are just examples. You can apply any level of granularity that you like to the particulars, but to make it a decent system without screwing people over... it has to be rock/paper/scissors. If this type of balanced system were to be implemented, I'd support fortification on any building (including high-value loot buildings should they exist in SA).

 

I don't think underground bunkers are the right way to go. Or rather, they shouldn't be the only way they're going. Underground bunkers work fine as a top tier construction. However, for low and mid-level construction, I think the fortification of existing structures is more than suitable. It then complements the "end-game" bunker, rather than just leaving it on its own. Likewise, it's easier to predict (as there's only X amount of possible fortification "slots" per building, and Y amount of buildings on the map).

Edited November 29, 2013 by Katana67

[oompah 58]

I guess it depends what you want to get out of the game.  But I 100% agree if you allow areas to be secured they need to be able to be breached somehow, but that should require an investment and risk as well.

 

I saw in epoch they have random missions that pop up (i think this is how it works) - so you are playing and a notice pops up saying "bandits have overrun the north east hospital (or whatever).  Players can then go there and try to free the area and it successful get some rare loot.  You could go a million ways with that idea but I thought it was a good idea to give players tasks like that to break things up.  Like I said it's all what you want to get out of this game and think it should be.

 

And you couldn't troll with locks and keys (working in numbered pairs perhaps) if you limited their existence per server and reset the pair when one or the other got destroyed.

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

i think rocket said that the idea was to make underground structures, i think its the best soultion. but i don't know how the hell are they going to make that happen without a minecrafty, blocky world...

locks, barricades won't work because people will always use them to troll, the same that happened with sand bags, tank traps, wire fencing.

I believe it was said that it would have to be instanced.  Goes without saying but the Engine would not support 'minecraft' style building.  My speculation is that there would be a few 'hub points' set up around the map where a player with the right tools and materials could build a base entrance, then from there build the different rooms required, everything would be 'underground' to prevent the map from being cluttered up with half finished/abandoned buildings.  The other way I could think of them doing it is having it set up like how tents/stashes are.  You plop down a 'tunnel entrance' and through both animations (time) and building materials (resources) you build a spider hole, which would act as the entrance.  From there there wouldn't be anything visible other than the entrance/spider hole.