Give me one logical reason why gear destruction will delay KOS

[rossums 2190]

A mistype ? you mistyped a whole sentence ? nice excuse ...that wasn't a mistype at all and you know it so don't try to worm your way out. You contradicted yourself and made yourself look stupid your now hiding behind the excuse of a mistype to cover you stupidity. I take it in that all the other kos topics you wrote in when we where in disagreement and you wrote total nonsense ..those where also mistypes ? Pathetic.

 

Its true that if ammo was to become more scarce it would therefore become more valuable...but that doesn't mean it would stop someone kosing you ...actually it could have the opposite effect ...they may pop a few bullets into you and take your ammo instead of letting you run off. You see that's what wrong with people like you ...you think that your arguments are fact but you don't even to look in depth at your own argument and see what else lies beneath ...and what lies beneath your argument is that the very thing you say would prevent people wasting ammo on killing you could in actuality lead to them killing you for your ammo.

Hello there

It was easy to understand what I meant from the context, nobody else seems to be having as many problems as you - it was a mere error in wording, nothing more, nothing less - you keep trying to pick apart a single line to ignore everything else - I'm not worming my way out of anything, I can quite clearly see it's poorly worded.

If by 'all the other KoS topics' you mean the other one topic I posted on (in which you also made zero sense) if you can post my 'total nonsense' you can be my guest, I'm assuming you'll just continue to post your semi-coherent babble as per usual.

You seem to assume that people will have ammo for you to steal, you don't know that at all, shooting them would be a net loss if they have nothing of value - you have therefore wasted your already limited ammo and gained nothing.

Forcing players to be frugal with the very limited ammunition will mean they are less likely to waste it shooting people that they don't know for a fact will benefit them in some way, it isn't as simple as:

 

 

they may pop a few bullets into you and take your ammo instead of letting you run off.

Not all encounters are made at a very short distance, encounters at a medium-long distance will mean that bandits are nowhere near guaranteed a kill - it's in their interest not to attempt to shoot from 400m+ away with an M4 if they have limited ammo, to argue otherwise is just stupid.

A face-to-face encounter could possibly be worth it but at any real distance it's just not worth wasting ammo over without moving closer to the enemy player.

You are trying to argue with a proven economic factor - the value of an object is driven by how scarce it is in a closed ecosystem like DayZ - people are also less likely to waste something with a higher worth or value - it's a pretty simple concept that you don't seem to be able to grasp.

I'm not even sure what you are trying to argue other than 'People COULD still kill even if ammo is rare'.

You are seeing everything as either x happens or y happens, it's not as black and white as that - it's not either they shoot and kill or they don't shoot and let you away, there are numerous possible scenarios in where you open fire and miss, open fire and damage the equipment etc. etc. just because you are aiming to shoot him in the head doesn't mean that's where the bullet is going to land.

Rgds

Rossums

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

Hello there

It was easy to understand what I meant from the context, nobody else seems to be having as many problems as you - it was a mere error in wording, nothing more, nothing less - you keep trying to pick apart a single line to ignore everything else - I'm not worming my way out of anything, I can quite clearly see it's poorly worded.

If by 'all the other KoS topics' you mean the other one topic I posted on (in which you also made zero sense) if you can post my 'total nonsense' you can be my guest, I'm assuming you'll just continue to post your semi-coherent babble as per usual.

You seem to assume that people will have ammo for you to steal, you don't know that at all, shooting them would be a net loss if they have nothing of value - you have therefore wasted your already limited ammo and gained nothing.

Forcing players to be frugal with the very limited ammunition will mean they are less likely to waste it shooting people that they don't know for a fact will benefit them in some way, it isn't as simple as:

 

Not all encounters are made at a very short distance, encounters at a medium-long distance will mean that bandits are nowhere near guaranteed a kill - it's in their interest not to attempt to shoot from 400m+ away with an M4 if they have limited ammo, to argue otherwise is just stupid.

A face-to-face encounter could possibly be worth it but at any real distance it's just not worth wasting ammo over without moving closer to the enemy player.

You are trying to argue with a proven economic factor - the value of an object is driven by how scarce it is in a closed ecosystem like DayZ - people are also less likely to waste something with a higher worth or value - it's a pretty simple concept that you don't seem to be able to grasp.

I'm not even sure what you are trying to argue other than 'People COULD still kill even if ammo is rare'.

You are seeing everything as either x happens or y happens, it's not as black and white as that - it's not either they shoot and kill or they don't shoot and let you away, there are numerous possible scenarios in where you open fire and miss, open fire and damage the equipment etc. etc. just because you are aiming to shoot him in the head doesn't mean that's where the bullet is going to land.

Rgds

Rossums

 

Listen you can word play all day long and worm your way out of that stupidly put together argument by selecting quote after quote and using stupid examples that make no sense to try backup your arguments but i put your argument to rest several posts ago and anyone with common sense will know that what im saying makes sense and that what you are saying is complete rubbish. I put my opinion out there and backed it up with relevant info and i put your argument to rest with backed up relevant info ..so until you can come to me with a completely thought out post viewed not only from your biased view but an unbiased view and back it up with relevant info, please kindly shhhhhhhhhh.

 

Untill then iv said all i need to say and if people actually read the previous posts then they will understand my opinion.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Massicor

[Bludy 324]

Forgive me if this has already being asked but if you're stalking a player and he stops then you headshot him then that players gear should still be intact? I would think then only the headgear/hat/whatever gets damaged.

If the above is true and if said KOS player is a reasonable shot then it's going to make no difference to the mod

 

 

i think i've been headshot only once..99% of tireurs in this game are so crappy i think they moved here from CoD, cause they were too bad at it.

[rossums 2190]

Listen you can word play all day long and worm your way out of that stupidly put together argument by selecting quote after quote and using stupid examples that make no sense to try backup your arguments all day long but i put your argument to rest several posts ago and anyone with common sense will know that what im saying makes sense and that what you are saying is complete rubbish. I put my opinion out there and backed it up with relevant info and i put your argument to rest with backed up relevant info ..so until you can come to me with a completely thought out post viewed not only from your biased view but an unbiased view and back it up with relevant info, please kindly shhhhhhhhhh.

 

Untill then iv said all i need to say and if people actually read the previous posts then thell understand my opinion.

Hello there

'Backed up relevant info'

If you can quote me where this supposed information I'd appreciate it a lot, it's certainly not in this thread.

​I'm not sure what you mean by 'stupid examples' I'd appreciate if you could explain that too, the only example I used in that was a medium-long range encounter by another player - an all too common occurrence.

You are literally just making stuff up with your fingers in your ears and avoiding the actual topic.. again.

The only thing coming to mind at the moment is 'argumentum ad nauseam' - you seem to be approaching the topic as if it is a false dichotomy and that just isn't the case.

Rgds

Rossums

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

Hello there

'Backed up relevant info'

If you can quote me where this supposed information I'd appreciate it a lot, it's certainly not in this thread.

​I'm not sure what you mean by 'stupid examples' I'd appreciate if you could explain that too, the only example I used in that was a medium-long range encounter by another player - an all too common occurrence.

You are literally just making stuff up with your fingers in your ears and avoiding the actual topic.. again.

The only thing coming to mind at the moment is 'argumentum ad nauseam' - you seem to be approaching the topic as if it is a false dichotomy and that just isn't the case.

Rgds

Rossums

 

The backed up info and examples are in this thread ...you obviously haven't been reading peoples posts ..or fully reading them at least ...that would actually explain why iv had to explain again and again the same argument over and over to you. Dont be lazy go back and actually check.

 

Again you ask me to explain and explain ....like i said you simply must not be able comprehend what im writing although its very simple and a child could understand it.

 

If you cant find this info even after iv explained and re quoted many times and even assured you its all in this thread then i cannot help you as you cant comprehend what im telling you.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Massicor

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

Rossom's posts would make way more sense if he'd learned to build a proper paragraph in english 101.

[rossums 2190]

The backed up info and examples are in this thread ...you obviously haven't been reading peoples posts ..or fully reading them at least ...that would actually explain why iv had to explain again and again the same argument over and over to you. Dont be lazy go back and actually check.

 

Again you ask me to explain and explain ....like i said you simply must not be able comprehend what im writing although its very simple and a child could understand it.

 

If you cant find this info even after iv explained and re quoted many times and even assured you its all in this thread then i cannot help you as you cant comprehend what im telling you.

Hello there

You've 'backed them up' with personal anecdotes and assumptions - that's as good as not backing them up at all.

There is nothing remotely useful to supporting your viewpoint other than stuff that you have just pulled out of your ass - if they exist QUOTE THEM, if not just stop - it's getting really tiring - you have backed up absolutely nothing you have said with anything worthwhile.

The jumps in logic you make are hilarious and you just disregard any real point that have been made and attack some silly strawman that you've made up in your head.

You aren't arguing to try and back up your point, you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

Edit:

Just felt like posting a lovely ironic post from a special butthurt someone that can't spell or string a sentence together.

 

Rossom's posts would make way more sense if he'd learned to build a proper paragraph in english 101.

Rgds

Rossums

Edited October 2, 2013 by Rossums

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

Hello there

You've 'backed them up' with personal anecdotes and assumptions - that's as good as not backing them up at all.

There is nothing remotely useful to supporting your viewpoint other than stuff that you have just pulled out of your ass - if they exist QUOTE THEM, if not just stop - it's getting really tiring - you have backed up absolutely nothing you have said with anything worthwhile.

The jumps in logic you make are hilarious and you just disregard any real point that have been made and attack some silly strawman that you've made up in your head.

You aren't arguing to try and back up your point, you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

Rgds

Rossums

 

The info is there....sorry sir i cannot help you, move along please!.

[disgruntled 38]

i think i've been headshot only once..99% of tireurs in this game are so crappy i think they moved here from CoD, cause they were too bad at it.

True it would take a decent bandit to do this regularly but they do exist. I ain't one of them haha

Yes Massicor we share the same view on this. I wanted to quote but was posting on my phone, apologies.

As we've had the mod for some time and the KOS mentality is well and truly ingrained now I think that KOS (at alpha launch at least) will still be a regular thing.

Whether Rockets changes and plans implemented in SA force most players to reconsider this is an unknown

[dallas 5195]

Some people will play DayZ to survive, others will play to kill. As long as there'll be a humanity indicator, so mass murderers can't simply swap servers to rid themselves of their reputation, the game will balance itself out. It would also be great if there was more consequence of death, than a 5 minute run to the nearest southern loot hub.

[Inception. 9443]

 

 

Right, Rossom and everyone else, please keep this civil. 

[rossums 2190]

Right, Rossom and everyone else, please keep this civil. 

Hello there

Rossom b gud.

I've given up anyway, it's like arguing with a brick wall, but this brick wall insists that they aren't actually a brick wall and have provided a lot of reasoned evidence for this but refuses to show you where it is, instead pointing at the pile of rocks on the pavement and shouts 'IT'S THERE'.

But guess what?

It's not there.

Rgds

Rossom

[meshcarver 154]

Someone needs to point out that KOS is the easiest and most cowardly (read, pussy) way to play.

I mean, there is literally 0% skill needed to do it.

A blind monkey with one arm could do it.

When I used to play, ALL of the best scenarios came about through interaction and tension thenceforth.

Just saying...

:)

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

The full game takes zero skill m8.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Massicor

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

Hello there

Rossom b gud.

I've given up anyway, it's like arguing with a brick wall, but this brick wall insists that they aren't actually a brick wall and have provided a lot of reasoned evidence for this but refuses to show you where it is, instead pointing at the pile of rocks on the pavement and shouts 'IT'S THERE'.

But guess what?

It's not there.

Rgds

Rossom

 

Grow up buddie ....now please shhh and stop trying to argue... inception is right ...we are just going in circles ...we have said what we needed to so leave it at that and let others put there opinions.

[mercules 1290]

'A lot of people...'

 

Quite clearly not trying to speak for the community as a whole...

 

And I do know that based on conversations with people that I've played with, met in-game or spoken to outside of DayZ.

 

I'll chime in as one of the people who doesn't KOS and typically only kills other players when the risk is high or shot at. Now... anyone with a Bandit skin or crawling around on Sniper Hill in a Ghillie is probably going to be shot with no questions asked. Others with survivor or hero skins are given warnings and only shot if they disregard them or fire at me. I've let so many people run past me without likely knowing I was there I can't keep track of how many. My typical response to the presence of another player is to get eyes on them and then avoid them unless they have a Bandit skin. 

 

I for one, would like it if people were a little less quick to the trigger, shooting anyone they see. I am at the point where I almost have to respond in kind as I have been trapped in locations with another player a couple times and they almost went bad. Entered a barn at the same time as another guy. We both went "Friendly" at the same time and exited out where we came in and moved away from each other. That could have been bad but there are those of us that actually don't shoot on site but are sometimes forced into situations where it is almost stupid NOT to because of game mechanics and the KOS mentality. We will welcome anything that makes someone pause and gives us a moment to make contact.

 

All the people saying "Oh, killing on sight was just meant to be dissuaded, not stopped" are making me crack.

 

Gear destruction will not dissuade anybody. Maybe 0.000000001% of players.

 

As I have repeatedly stated, KOS happens because you want to protect your own gear, not take someone elses. It's sad this simple concept is so hard to understand for you.

 

The KOS you are describing happens because some players can't take the risk that others might be friendly. Protecting your own gear is really just someone lacking confidence in their ability to take another player out without having the jump on them. I've run into dozens of people and while we were both nervous we went about our business without shooting each other.

 

Some people really do KOS for their gear. Check the Bandit threads there are people who typically just get a semi-decent gun then camp and let someone else gather up a bunch of things then shoot them and take the gear. Those people will have to get a bit more creative about it and it might slow them down if they have to headshot that guy but body shot the next one and what if the one he body shot had something good in his sweatshirt? Now the bandit will be like, "Dang I shouldn't have shot him there." What now? Leg shots then hold them up? 

As long as it changes something a bit it did it's job. It's also realistic and so worth going in just for that alone. ;)

[Vicco 123]

I agree with both sides in this argument, but disagree too.

Agree that KOS is natural to PvP.

Disagree it has much to do with gear.  Players kill to kill.

Anybody relying on "human nature" alone to reduce KOS is in a fantasy world.

It will take coded game mechanics.

Here's my big disagreement about KOS in the SA.  That's a new game.  New design.

You can reduce it with ammo rarity.

You can reduce it with a strict humanity system, and skins.

You can reduce it by reducing PvP damage done to players - by any weapon.

If it takes 5 rounds to knock somebody out and 10 to kill them, that will reduce KOS. 

No question about it.  So don't say greatly reducing KOS can't be done.

Massive zed swarming to shooters will reduce it.

A half hour respawn delay for low humanity will reduce it.

 

You can also ELIMINATE KOS by turning off PvP damage entirely.

If the game really provides a "survival" aspect, with good exploration possibilities, it will support servers with PvP turned off, and they will be populated.

 

My favorites for balancing KOS in a PvP game is a mix and match.   Bullet damage reduction for PvP.  Maybe no one-shot kills, and a head-shot to knock out.

Safe zones with no PvP, and alternate hours being PvP/no PvP.

Lots of tactical possibilities there.  Teaming with friendlies in safe zones, or in non-PvP hours.  Watching the changeover clock turn to PvP as you decide whether to log, hole up somewhere, or for the KOSer, whether to stalk that guy because your gun will soon be operative against him.  

Could be fun.  KOS wouldn't be so easy.  Let's face it, the true non-KOS guy is usually a sitting duck.  This gives him more defense options.

 

There are plenty of ways to do it, so I don't think a KOS guy should be so sure it's going to be easy in the SA. 

Frankly, I'm more interested in map size, survival elements and exploration possibilities.

But in a PvP game there's going to be KOS.

Just saying there are ways to control it.

 

[OrLoK 16185]

The full game takes zero skill m8.

 

Explain.

 

Grow up buddie ....now please shhh and stop trying to argue

No insults. 

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

The full game takes zero skill m8.

I strongly beg to differ.

 

While yes, shoot-em'-up PvP run to cherno or elektro crazy style CoD DayZ takes virtually no skill but the ability to operate your fingers. Many of us still like to actually play DayZ the way it was intended. Your single minded view is simply ignorant. Just because 99% of the community doesn't use tactics or strategy when they play doesn't mean that the game doesn't take skill. Simply put, the game has so many ways of being played that a bold statement such as yours can be easily debunked by simply browsing some YouTube videos.

 

Your whole "I know everything and anyone that disagrees isn't on my level of intelligence" attitude is getting old, and fast. The entire premise of insulting someone to get a point across is childish in its own right, and whilst we all occasionally participate in such actions, it usually isn't in a high and mighty "I'm smarter than you" fashion that you're taking.

 

 

You see that's what wrong with people like you ...you think that your arguments are fact but you don't even to look in depth at your own argument and see what else lies beneath

Look at the pot calling the kettle black. You've refused to acknowledge valid points made by mZLY and Rossums, and continued your 'righteous' Jihad of knowitallism.

 

There are plenty of ways to play DayZ, and there is no simple answer to solving KoS because... well... people who wanna KoS, will KoS. However, maybe instead of being blind and following the hive mentality that is KoS, you actually open your mind to different possibilities that the dev team presents to you. Which in this case is trying to get you to think twice before shooting. How you choose to take this is up to you, the game is what you make of it... but I don't think anyone should be playing DayZ just to kill people. It isn't what this game is about, and it never will be... no matter how much people like you try to rationalize it otherwise.

Edited October 2, 2013 by OfficerRaymond

[Katana67 2907]

It won't stop KoSing, it will distinguish between those who are there to kill and those who are there to acquire gear, thus mitigating it to a degree amongst those who do not kill for the sake of it. Pretty straightforward.

 

As an example, if 30% of people don't KoS, 60% KoS to get gear, and 10% KoS for the hell of it... you're effectively neutralizing that middle 60%. Insert whatever rhetorical percentages you want.

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

I strongly beg to differ.

 

While yes, shoot-em'-up PvP run to cherno or elektro crazy style CoD DayZ takes virtually no skill but the ability to operate your fingers. Many of us still like to actually play DayZ the way it was intended. Your single minded view is simply ignorant. Just because 99% of the community doesn't use tactics or strategy when they play doesn't mean that the game doesn't take skill. Simply put, the game has so many ways of being played that a bold statement such as yours can be easily debunked by simply browsing some YouTube videos.

 

Your whole "I know everything and anyone that disagrees isn't on my level of intelligence" attitude is getting old, and fast. The entire premise of insulting someone to get a point across is childish in its own right, and whilst we all occasionally participate in such actions, it usually isn't in a high and mighty "I'm smarter than you" fashion that you're taking.

 

 

Look at the pot calling the kettle black. You've refused to acknowledge valid points made by mZLY and Rossums, and continued your 'righteous' Jihad of knowitallism.

 

There are plenty of ways to play DayZ, and there is no simple answer to solving KoS because... well... people who wanna KoS, will KoS. However, maybe instead of being blind and following the hive mentality that is KoS, you actually open your mind to different possibilities that the dev team presents to you. Which in this case is trying to get you to think twice before shooting. How you choose to take this is up to you, the game is what you make of it... but I don't think anyone should be playing DayZ just to kill people. It isn't what this game is about, and it never will be... no matter how much people like you try to rationalize it otherwise.

 

Not even gonna give you an informed reply....its pretty obv you mabie read the last page and not the full thread.

 

You mayaswell just lock the thread inception ..because people like this will just come in ...read only the past page and then try to troll and cause arguments...and say that the read the full thread.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Massicor

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

KoS = DayZ Easy mode

 

It is the most basic, primitive way to play the game.  Fine if you like that but some of us would rather think about that shot before taking it due to ammo being low, attracting zombies or ruining any valuable gear the player might have.

Exactly. It's like playing the role of a murderous psychopath in any post-apocalyptic scenario. They will yes, exist. However there won't be nearly the ratio that DayZ has. In fact it'd be the complete opposite. Most people would want to help others out instead of murder them for no apparent reason other than to add a mark on their rifle.

 

I myself do in fact play the heavy bandit role. I only kill those that are a threat to myself or my squad, or people that own things that I wish to acquire myself that I believe will assist in survival. Like if someone has a DMR and I have a... m16. If I believe I can (or my squad can) kill that person without putting myself or my partners in direct risk, so that I can further my chances of survival, then I'm going to most likely tactically and strategically eliminate that person. On the flip side, if some poor sap is running across a field five hundred meters away with a gun that doesn't pose any immediate threat to myself (or my partners of course) then I'm not going to put anybody in danger when I most likely won't gain anything from it. However, if that person approaches me or my squad or fires at us, making him a direct threat, he's going to find himself being surgically picked apart.

 

Simply put, I do enjoy PvP and the adrenaline rush that comes with it. But I don't go buck wild with killing everything and everyone I see. I still stick to the basic principal that DayZ was founded upon... survival. Constant KoS is one of the main reasons why people get bored of DayZ. It isn't a heavily action based game to begin with. Combine that with the fact that you don't spawn with gear, and you've got boredom within months if not weeks.

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

Not even gonna give you an informed reply....its pretty obv you mabie read the last page and not the full thread.

 

You mayaswell just lock the thread inception ..because people like this will just come in ...read only the past page and then try to troll and cause arguments...and say that the read the full thread.

See? Yet again you come to the assumption that the person that disagrees with you hasn't read the thread and is therefore 'below you'. I've read every single post in this thread thoroughly, and you honestly haven't been informative or reasonable more than maybe once. Say whatever you like about me not reading the thread to make you feel better about yourself and your presumed intelligence.

 

Who the hell is trolling here? It really seems like you bud. I didn't try to start anything with you, I merely engaged in disagreement with you. Yet you ask for a mod to lock a perfectly good thread due to the fact that you think people are trying to troll you, when really you're just out of semi-intelligent words. I don't wanna get into an argument over intellect, but I think it's you that should step back and read what you've written, and then determine who has the trouble with comprehension skills.

                                                                     

One of the hardest things on this forum is trying to remain composed when arguing with a self-endowed genius that can't even compose coherent sentences. <-- You wanted trolling? There it is.

Edited October 3, 2013 by OfficerRaymond

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

See? Yet again you come to the assumption that the person that disagrees with you hasn't read the thread and is therefore 'below you'. I've read every single post in this thread thoroughly, and you honestly haven't been informative or reasonable more than maybe once. Say whatever you like about me not reading the thread to make you feel better about yourself and your presumed intelligence.

 

Who the hell is trolling here? It really seems like you bud. I didn't try to start anything with you, I merely engaged in disagreement with you. Yet you ask for a mod to lock a perfectly good thread due to the fact that you think people are trying to troll you, when really you're just out of semi-intelligent words. I don't wanna get into an argument over intellect, but I think it's you that should step back and read what you've written, and then determine who has the trouble with comprehension skills.

 

One of the hardest things on this forum is trying to remain composed when arguing with a self-endowed genius that can't even compose coherent sentences. <-- You wanted trolling? There it is.

 

Whatever buddie ...the reason i asked for thread to be locked is because im done explaining myself and shouldn't need to as its all in previous posts ...you would have known that if you read the whole thread but thats not what you did was it ...you did like i said you did ...read the last page and then jumped straight in with your 2 cents without even knowing everything people wrote previously in the thread and try to argue against them ...move along m8.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Massicor

[rossums 2190]

Whatever buddie ...move on.

Is that your go-to line when you have just been textually beaten to a pulp?

You can't just tell people to move on because they made you look like a moron, you're doing that yourself plenty - it's clear you have nothing useful to contribute to the forum or society as a whole.

Now jog on, ya pillock.