First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[Ken Bean 175]

And in DayZ for me,

 

Hardcore = Realistic,

1st person view = Realistic,

Hardcore = 1st person view.

 

For me, that is not what you said it is.

 

You obviously confuse terms like "harcore" with "realistic".

To be "realistic" is an approach a "simulation" tries to be.

What this has to do with 1st person and "hardcore" (what do you think that means?) really is your secret.

 

Or other way round:

"Call of Duty" is first person right?

So do you think this is realistic and hardcore?

 

So please don't get me wrong, but you are obviously talking nonsense.

 

No wonder if we don't get to a solution. This also explains your 1st person fanatics.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Nihilum 209]

You obviously confuse terms like "harcore" with "realistic".

To be "realistic" is an approach a "simulation" tries to be.

What this has to do with 1st person really is your secret.

 

Or other way round:

"Call of Duty" is first person right?

So do you think this is realistic and hardcore?

 

So please don't get me wrong, but you are obviously talking nonsense.

this guy...  :| 

[Ken Bean 175]

this guy...  :| 

 

Thanks for the picture but wrong logic can be proofen wrong otherwise. ;)

As long as you can't, the logic and argumentation is what it is: waterproof.

 

So yeah, some have decided talking rubbish.  Not sure when it started, but this clearly is nothing new.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Ken Bean

[SMLE 39]

He's already specifically mentioned they are trying 2/3 of them... (prone and crouched), it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to also consider a lower/closer third person camera for standing still too.

Trying being the operative word , he also says they don't want to adversely effect 3rdp players because they are the majority .

cheers

[hoik 415]

Ok, here's a genuine suggestion. Its not so much about the actual mechanics of fixing TPV to be less prone to exploitation and more about implementation of two perspectives as two distinct choices within a single server. It works on two provisos:

1. TPV has been 'fixed' as much as possible while still remaining fluid and immersive.

2. The game implements a diverse range of stance options, such as in ArmA 3 - but tailored to DayZ.

With those two features implemented, upon starting a new character, you get to choose between two perspective modes:

 

- Third Person Prerogative

- First Person Prerogative

 

 

If you select Third Person Prerogative then:

- you're perspective is restricted to TPV. You can not switch to FPV on the fly.

- you will still go to first person when using scopes/iron sights and can stay in this view as long as you like.

- but, all the advanced stance mechanics are disabled. Not even leaning left/right.

- basic stances (standing, crouched, prone) are of course still possible

 

 

 

If you select First Person Prerogative then:

- The Player gets to utilize the full range of stance options.

- You can also switch to a highly modified TPV on the fly, but it is has restrictions, e.g:

•     The player will not be able to manually control the TPV camera (or at least have very limited control of it). Rather the camera will be more of a 'cinematic' mode - it could slowly rotate around the player.  

- I think this modified TPV could be switched on at any time, just as FPV can be used at any time by those in TPV.

 

At the start of each new life you get the choice of perspectives again.

 

 

 

I think this could add an interesting balance, and genuine choice, between the two perspectives. Making this choice a primary decision is actually very important IMO, you immediately bring to the players attention that there is a difference between playing in each perspectives (in terms of how you experience the world, though this does not have to specifically stated) and that it is significant enough for it to be one of the first things you must decide. Making players aware that there is a difference is half the struggle!

 

So this spreads awareness, people who haven't even thought about the issue before now hopefully will, out of curiosity people will try FPV (if nothing else) and being 'locked in' to a perspective for one life can give players a serious taste of what it is like to play in a given perspective. 

Edited August 29, 2013 by Hoik

[Jex 1104]

I don't see it much of an issue unless there's only one or the other. For example, I play Panthera a fair bit right now and the two servers that we play on, both are 3rd person so I'd like a 1st person option too but it should be a server sided choice. If people want an "in between" option idk but 3rd person gives many unfair advantages and takes away from the intensity. It's much more adrenaline inducing to crouch and sneak up to look over a hill than it is to simply switch to 3rd person and cheat.

[SmashT 10907]

Trying being the operative word , he also says they don't want to adversely effect 3rdp players because they are the majority .

cheers

 

That's all we have asked, as Rocket put it. "It's going to be hard to get it right, but I really want us to try." Can we not discuss things to try because you refuse to compromise at all?

Edited August 29, 2013 by SmashT

[dgeesio 1034]

i actually feel like smashing my head into a wall reding replies in the thread leave third person and first person as is!

 

you can see many like third person many like first

 

limiting or just saying your playing this way is stupid .

 

 

its i like third person then first person lover well sorry its not realistic 24/7

 

whats going to happen is you going to end up losing half the player base over stupid camera views.

 

people know the product they know the game its popular why change it ? people like both ways stop messing with shit for minorities which will effect the masses. you dont cater for minorites in business.

 

 

rocket doesnt need to try to get it right its already right ! just people are medling trying to get it right for the rightous groups who only play on monday nights at 1am with a can of sardines.

 

 

why does every video game come down to the core elements being decided by minorites who only want want just doesnt work for mass product ?

 

i know you dont want warz i dont either but if left to some of these who are admins on here for eg they have you crawling first perosn while crafting your under pants out of leaves and only eating plants and berries.

 

think of fun ! its what video games are for and stop trying to make this a ray mearer adventure ffs !

[Wayze 549]

whats going to happen is you going to end up losing half the player base over stupid camera views.

What is going to happen is that we lose haft the player base over the core gameplay. Like I said so often now, DayZ Mod is right now just an action game. People turned it into a casual game, that is why there are so many players.

But there is no way that SA will turn into something like that because it will have the core elements like rare loot and complex medical system. It won't be easy to get into the endgame and play it like a deathmatch. You will have to find a weapon first, which is very rare, and need ammo, which is very rare too. So no deathmatch anymore and I really think many, many players probably like 50% will stop playing the standalone because they had wrong expectations. It will be nothing like the mod.

[Ken Bean 175]

i actually feel like smashing my head into a wall reding replies in the thread leave third person and first person as is!

 

you can see many like third person many like first

 

limiting or just saying your playing this way is stupid .

 

 

its i like third person then first person lover well sorry its not realistic 24/7

 

whats going to happen is you going to end up losing half the player base over stupid camera views.

 

people know the product they know the game its popular why change it ? people like both ways stop messing with shit for minorities which will effect the masses. you dont cater for minorites in business.

 

 

rocket doesnt need to try to get it right its already right ! just people are medling trying to get it right for the rightous groups who only play on monday nights at 1am with a can of sardines.

 

 

why does every video game come down to the core elements being decided by minorites who only want want just doesnt work for mass product ?

 

i know you dont want warz i dont either but if left to some of these who are admins on here for eg they have you crawling first perosn while crafting your under pants out of leaves and only eating plants and berries.

 

think of fun ! its what video games are for and stop trying to make this a ray mearer adventure ffs !

 

I'm afraid that some of this "hardcore" gamer are not pleased untill they reached a situation in which they no longer enjoy it.

 

Now removing 3rd person cam is their agenda, since it makes so much sense that threy can't help but using it.

 

Meanwhile 1st person server are empty.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Ken Bean

[hoik 415]

you dont cater for minorites in business.

This is some of the worst sentiment... if things don't make a profit then they aren't worth doing??

[St. Jimmy 1631]

In the end we are asking about nerf  the 3rd person so much that it's the same if you're playing in the 1st person?

It would be just better to leave it as it is and spent resources on other things or just remove the 3rd person.

[SMLE 39]

That's all we have asked, as Rocket put it. "It's going to be hard to get it right, but I really want us to try." Can we not discuss things to try because you refuse to compromise at all?

I would love to have a proper discussion , I compromised way back I agreed going prone and having 3rdp view wasn't working and look where it got the discussion you now want everything but the loading screen in 1st person , we are not only not on the same page we are not even in the same book , you (the 1stp camp) seem to want nothing less than the total removal of 3rdp view and you will not be reasoned with .

cheers

p.s. I'd actually like to be talking about other stuff like why bullits only ever hit the first target in line and stuff like that but im stuck here trying to get a fair outcome for myself and others that like 3rdp view play style .

[SMLE 39]

In the end we are asking about nerf  the 3rd person so much that it's the same if you're playing in the 1st person?

It would be just better to leave it as it is and spent resources on other things or just remove the 3rd person.

I would even prefer this at least i'd know this game was no longer the one for me and I could move on .

cheers

[SmashT 10907]

I would love to have a proper discussion , I compromised way back I agreed going prone and having 3rdp view wasn't working and look where it got the discussion you now want everything but the loading screen in 1st person , we are not only not on the same page we are not even in the same book , you (the 1stp camp) seem to want nothing less than the total removal of 3rdp view and you will not be reasoned with .

cheers

p.s. I'd actually like to be talking about other stuff like why bullits only ever hit the first target in line and stuff like that but im stuck here trying to get a fair outcome for myself and others that like 3rdp view play style .

 

Firstly I play third person exclusively so I don't know why you keep referring to me as the first person only camp, secondly I mentioned three context sensitive stances, two of which Rocket has already posted they are looking at. I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth and adding "in buildings . in cars . in helicopters" "in combat and with guns raised" so you can then insinuate I want everything but the loading screen in first person.

 

What's your compromise, because so far all I have seen you suggest is do nothing, leave it exactly the same as it is now. That's not a compromise.

Edited August 29, 2013 by SmashT

[SMLE 39]

Firstly I play third person exclusively so I don't know why you keep referring to me as the first person only camp, secondly I mentioned three context sensitive stances, two of which Rocket has already posted they are looking at. I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth and adding "in buildings . in cars . in helicopters" "in combat and with guns raised" so you can then insinuate I want everything but the loading screen in first person.

 

What's your compromise, because so far all I have seen you suggest is do nothing, leave it exactly the same as it is now. That's not a compromise.

I find it hard to believe you have the interests of the 3rdp view players or even the game at heart , any thinking person can see messing with 3rdp view to the extent you and others in this thread want is crazy on every level .

  I didn't mean to appear to put words in your mouth when I say you I ment the 1stp view people and weather you are aware of it or not you are definatly coming across as in that camp .

If you don't like the way 3rdp view is so much that you want it butchered to death maybe you should play 1stp view maybe youll be happier .

cheers

sorry I forgot the bit about compromise , I did not off any compromise I offered a solution that would work for everybody .

Edited August 29, 2013 by SMLE

[terrvik 2409]

So what you are saying is basically "if you don't like TPV as is, get out", an argument FPV guys have been accused of using alot?

 

I think it's a healthy thing to recognize flaws and discuss how to fix them. I love FPV but I can name dozens of improvements to it.

[SMLE 39]

So what you are saying is basically "if you don't like TPV as is, get out", an argument FPV guys have been accused of using alot?

 

I think it's a healthy thing to recognize flaws and discuss how to fix them. I love FPV but I can name dozens of improvements to it.

Not at all I did agreed to the prone stance and 3rdp view could be looked at , I don't like the idea of it being changed because it leads to all sorts of new problems and more work for the devs and lets face it the vast majority of players like it that's an important point that keeps being avoided , only a select few want change massive change .

And yes I agree discussing change is healthy but cutting out the patients heart because he has a toothache is a step to far .

cheers

Edited August 29, 2013 by SMLE

[Ken Bean 175]

So what you are saying is basically "if you don't like TPV as is, get out", an argument FPV guys have been accused of using alot?

 

I think it's a healthy thing to recognize flaws and discuss how to fix them. I love FPV but I can name dozens of improvements to it.

 

While I agree with that the 1st person view (and with it the shooter part of the game) is very flawed, I want to add that 3rd person is a base element of the roleplay part of the game which goes beyond those shooter elements. Survival also is roleplaying. Are you a hunter, a scravenger, a bandit and so on?

 

Also if it comes to carmouflage, you absolutely depend on figuring out how something looks like from afar. In real life, if you are a lone survivor, you probably would make or find a Ghillie. To figure out what effect it has, you probably would use some strow to make a human shape, throw the Ghillie over and go some metres away before you lose it and never find it again. This are things you cant realize in the game. So beyond the "seeing and "sensing" your character in the sourounding world, making it believable, helping the role" you depend on 3rd person to solve such simple practical problems, like: are my feet in the bush or not?

 

DayZ also focuses on litteraly 'doing things', like 'doing survival'. Therefore seeing your character 'doing survival things' for me is the key element of playing a survival game.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Ken Bean

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

It would be nice if we could get a clarification from rocket whether there WILL be first person only servers in SA or not. That would be pretty important for the discussion.

 

I have no problem, with people choosing to enforce their difficulty settings on their servers, because BI designed their engine to be highly customizable, from mods, to addons, mission editing and difficulty settings.

I think you're forgetting one thing here Dallas. Although it's a game made by BI, using their own engine, this is not ARMA anymore. It's a standalone survival game. It is not being made to be customizable, moddable or have an editor. Security is not the only reason for that. DayZ mod has demonstrated very well what happens when you give server admins a choice. There is no reason why should, say, waypoints even exist in DayZ as an option. Same with many other remnants from ARMA.

[terrvik 2409]

Someone suggested in this thread earlier a key that had to be pressed and hold to enter TPV. Would that be a good solution? You press a key, get in TPV to see how you are positioned or what you look like. Then it automatically reverts to FPV after a few seconds. This would be useful for the issues you mention but short enough to actually be misused. Maybe.

 

 

It would be nice if we could get a clarification from rocket whether there WILL be first person only servers in SA or not. That would be pretty important for the discussion.

 

Yeah, it would be great if we could get just one short statement in here so we know what we are working with. :)

Edited August 29, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[SMLE 39]

Someone suggested in this thread earlier a key that had to be pressed and hold to enter TPV. Would that be a good solution? You press a key, get in TPV to see how you are positioned or what you look like. Then it automatically reverts to FPV after a few seconds. This would be useful for the issues you mention but short enough to actually be misused. Maybe.

 

 

 

Yeah, it would be great if we could get just one short statement in here so we know what we are working with. :)

Very much agreed , a short statement would be great .

Or even one of the blue names could give Mr Hall a quick unbiased report on what we have been talking about here and get a response , please .

cheers

Edited August 29, 2013 by SMLE

[DemonGroover 8836]

Why do i get the feeling i could slip into a coma, sleep for 25 years, wake up and we would still be debating this issue?

 

And by then the argument would be some players wanting 3rd person in the Matrix.

Edited August 29, 2013 by DemonGroover

[Ken Bean 175]

Someone suggested in this thread earlier a key that had to be pressed and hold to enter TPV. Would that be a good solution? You press a key, get in TPV to see how you are positioned or what you look like. Then it automatically reverts to FPV after a few seconds. This would be useful for the issues you mention but short enough to actually be misused. Maybe.

 

 

 

Yeah, it would be great if we could get just one short statement in here so we know what we are working with. :)

 

I use 1st person sometimes and prefer 3rd person while playing. 1st person is good for sniping, scouting and fighting.

Tell me: Why must I be turned?

[terrvik 2409]

Turned?