First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[SMLE 39]

No no, I am not saying that I will personally go out of my way to give you a bad day, but I am saying that, if the idea of us not being serious 100% of the time will effect you in a negative way, then you will probably have a bad day depending upon the degree of the effect. And I took no disrespect to you calling us/me blue names; it's rather original from what I have seen, haha.

 

I think we should probably get back on topic, apologies for derailing. 

All is good Mate , I have done the job myself on a number of sites and I know how difficult it can be dealing with people like me :P

I didn't make up the term "blue names"  it was just what we were called , so I cant take credit for it .

cheers

Edited August 30, 2013 by SMLE

[tommes 331]

Discussion wise there's only 2 guys left argueing for TPV. Both do it really badly and in such a manner that my despise of this certain kind of DayZ player is confirmed. There's no point in further argueing with them. Any point made missed them entirely. They don't want to give in so it will never happen.

DayZ players are split into two base camps on PvP: the ones seeking PvP and the ones avoiding it.

They are als split into two base camps on 3rd person view. I believe PvP'ers are the same as 1st person players and therefore the 3rd person lovers belong to the PvP-avoiders.

I'm not sure that it is possible to really cater to both crowds at the same time respectively the same game.

[Ken Bean 175]

1st person is more difficult. It is not broken and it is not weird. If you are skilled you can survive forever, which is not the average time.

 

The point is totally irrelevant, if the statistics tell us that it is how it is we know it is because of the third person view.

 

Why is this not the point? Because there is no tactic in third person shooters, it is the most simply gameplay which a shooter can be: Observe and wait. The reasons why you survive longer are like I said irrelevent, the fact that you actually do survive longer is enough.

 

This data says really much about the issue. Actually it tells us there is a issue. Yes, playstyle can be very easily categorised into 1st or 3rd person. Yes they are very meaningful and they change the core gameplay of the game.

 

It does say that third person player do have a way more easier job in surviving, which means reaching end game sooner, which means the game gets boring sooner.

 

It is one preference under many, like 50.000 AS50s per m² is also a preference. As you can see the majority of the players actually prefer these 50.000 AS50s per m². Does that mean the standalone should have 50.000 AS50s per m²?

 

You made it small, way to small.

Okay, let me go into this.

 

1st person is more difficult. It is not broken and it is not weird.

For you. I have the experience that 1st or 3rd person view can be equaly difficult. The problem is that the 1st person view is flawed in DayZ. If it would be more Battlefield-alike, the 1st person view would be easier than the 3rd person, because Zeds wouldn't be able to be a threat. They'd just die as soon as they pop up.

 

If you are skilled you can survive forever, which is not the average time.

Basically there's not much 1st person shooter skill needed to plain survive. After you found a sea, a tin can, matches, a knife, a hatchet and some medical supplies you can life without risking mutch. I mean it's not a game which focuses on 1st person shooter skills in the very first place.

 

The point is totally irrelevant, if the statistics tell us that it is how it is we know it is because of the third person view.

What does statistics tell us? Plain numbers. What a statistic means is a matter of interpretation. Your interpretation seems to be fixed in advance. If 1st person player have a lower chance to survive then maybe because the 1st person view is a bit broken?

 

Why is this not the point? Because there is no tactic in third person shooters, it is the most simply gameplay which a shooter can be: Observe and wait. The reasons why you survive longer are like I said irrelevent, the fact that you actually do survive longer is enough.

First let me say that third person shooter can be very tactical. Maybe shooter use to be not very tactical at all compared to simulations or games like chess, but this is not because of the perspective. The 3rd person view actually gives player more room for being tactical all the way.

If your tactics only is to observe and wait, then this doesn't mean that this is the only tactic a third person game can have.

Not the perspective is relevant for how long you survive, but the tactics. As said in previous posts, "Observe and wait" is a typical 1st person shooter multiplayer tactics which also can bee seen in games like Battlefield, its also known as camping. Camper apparently do so in 1st and 3rd person.

 

This data says really much about the issue. Actually it tells us there is a issue. Yes, playstyle can be very easily categorised into 1st or 3rd person. Yes they are very meaningful and they change the core gameplay of the game.

Actually I respectful disagree. The playstile is much more variable than playing in 1st or 3rd person. Most people constantly switch the person and their playstile could better categorised in lone wolfes, bandits, heros ... to name the obvious. There are threads which suggest such categories. All of them use to play in 1st and 3rd person, even camper.

 

It does say that third person player do have a way more easier job in surviving, which means reaching end game sooner, which means the game gets boring sooner.

It is one preference under many, like 50.000 AS50s per m² is also a preference. As you can see the majority of the players actually prefer these 50.000 AS50s per m². Does that mean the standalone should have 50.000 AS50s per m²?

You made it small, way to small.

I actually don't know what to say here. The 3rd person view is something anyone can have, it's not a win button like you suggest. A huuuuge majority is playing on 3rd person enabled servers and the death toll is very high. Those AS50 weren't that easy to find either. Almost every hacker spawned with one, yes, but that's another story.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Ken Bean 175]

A method to get players to adapt to a higher difficulty setting would be to have like 3 settings: noob, regular, hardcore

Hardcore means FPV only, almost no HUD and everything minimal but you would find the best loot only on those servers. So for example on a regular server the best weapon to find might be an AK or M4 variant, on noob maybe shotguns and an Enfield or Winnie. Other loot classes similar.

So there would be an incentive to go into hardcore land maybe a good feeling afterwards of having survived there.

While I absolutely agree with the presence of various difficulty settings (there's nothing wrong with easy difficulties), I'd point you to the fact that 3rd person player also have a right to play on high or "hardcore" difficulty.

I don't like the fact that you constantly suggest that 3rd person player would not want to play on high difficulties. They want and do so.

 

Having a preference for the 1st person doesn't make you hardcore.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Ken Bean

[tommes 331]

While I absulutely agree with the presence of various difficulty settings (there's nothing wrong with easy difficulties), I'd point you to the fact that 3rd person player also have a right to play on high or "hardcore" difficulty.

I'm not amused that you constantly suggest that 3rd person player don't want top play on high difficulty.

FPV only is part of the difficulty setting. So TPV enabled is no hardcore. Period!

You want the good stuff? Go to hardcore land with hardcore rules!

[tommes 331]

I actually don't know what to say here. The 3rd person view is something anyone can have, it's not a win button like you suggest.

It enables and encourages lame tactics. Players using lame tactics are lame. I don't want to play with lamers. That's the sole reason. Everything else doesn't really matter.

[(TMW) Marion Mic 104]

Hi there all,

 

So there was debate long time ago, also around first/third person view. This thread somehow died and now I think we could just look at this Q'n'A.

 

Q: Will default aiming stances change so you don't look so threatening when approaching players?
A: Yes, there is going to be a lot of work done to make sure you walk around with your weapon lowered or on your back or something like that and because of some of the changes to how first/third person works (you aren't going to be able to change between them as quickly as you can now. You're going have to go into your menu to change it) it means if you actually want to shoot someone (you now don't have a cross hair), your going to actually have to look down the scope at someone or look down the iron sights so yes, I think it's a key focus.

 

 

crosshairs will be removed entirely but they will keep 3rd person view in the game. Without crosshairs people using 3rd person will have to switch to 1st person view if they want to aim and shoot properly. This will not work on the fly but by going into the options.....

 

 

Has this changed over time or there is still the fact, that you'll have to change it from 3rd to 1st in the menu if you'd like to go in-to scope or you'll just right-click for it? I hope answer I am looking is not off-topic. Thanks.

[wild_man 4442]

FPV only is part of the difficulty setting. So TPV enabled is no hardcore. Period!

You want the good stuff? Go to hardcore land with hardcore rules!

this guys don't face true reality :huh:

 

addict to easy mode but make denial is easy mode :o

 

3rd person = easier than no 3rd person :thumbsup:  is fact same like nametag is easier than no nametag :D

 

on true setting scale for difficult level 3rd person is on bottom half, FACT :P

[Ken Bean 175]

FPV only is part of the difficulty setting. So TPV enabled is no hardcore. Period!

You want the good stuff? Go to hardcore land with hardcore rules!

 

Maybe someone of the mods can confirm this? I played on 1st person player only server and didn't have the feeling that there was a higher difficulty.

[sobieski12 835]

Also,

 

Do you think it would help, if "(ALT) Free look" would be disabled in 3rd person? Since Rocket said 3rd is mostly good for traveling long distances? Can you travel w/o free look?

 

I really don't understand why people are making this so difficult.

 

Here is an idea, remove the 3rd person camera. 

 

Pros

* Exploitative pvp combat gone.

* Balanced gameplay. 

* A more immerse DayZ experience.

 

Cons

* The casual community crying on the forums.

[wild_man 4442]

Maybe someone of the mods can confirm this? I played on 1st person player only server and didn't have the feeling that there was a higher difficulty.

take 2 guys ;)

 

1st guy name bob is play 1st person server :(

2nd guy name pete is play 3rd person server :)

 

pete see zeds before bob

pete see loots before bob

pete see player before bob

pete see car before bob

pete see round corner stay hide, bob need expose himself for look round corner

pete can stay inside house and look around outside, bob need to go out from house to look around outside

pete can look over wall, bob need to run round to other side to see over wall

 

 

pete play easier way, is not debate for this is fact :thumbsup:  :P

 

look again difficult setting list I put before, is one quote of this top of page ^^  top half is first person bottom half is 3rd person ;)

 

is fact, why you deny this, is ok for me you want to play easy way, I don't give fucks what you do but stop please make pretend 3rd person is not easy mode. >:(

3rd person is not hardcore, is not normal is easy way :rolleyes:

 

 

EASY WAY!!!! :lol:

Edited August 30, 2013 by KoS

[Jamz 253]

A method to get players to adapt to a higher difficulty setting would be to have like 3 settings: noob, regular, hardcore

Hardcore means FPV only, almost no HUD and everything minimal but you would find the best loot only on those servers. So for example on a regular server the best weapon to find might be an AK or M4 variant, on noob maybe shotguns and an Enfield or Winnie. Other loot classes similar.

So there would be an incentive to go into hardcore land maybe a good feeling afterwards of having survived there.

 

Whereas I would love there to be different servers with different loot levels, so I could play on low tech loot servers only (actually the most 'hardcore'), I can see this open to abuse, with players going to FPV servers to farm high end weapons and then jumping to TPV servers with those weapons to give themselves an advantage equipment wise. In other words, an exploit, just like the one which this thread was supposed to be about. The only ways it would work would be either two separate hives or this option would be only available on private servers (which I'm in favour of personally).

 

If it were a private server thing, I would play equally on all three server types no doubt (and hope both views are fixed).

Edited August 30, 2013 by Jamz

[Jamz 253]

 

I really don't understand why people are making this so difficult.

 

Here is an idea, remove the 3rd person camera. 

 

Pros

* Exploitative pvp combat gone.

* Balanced gameplay. 

* A more immerse DayZ experience.

 

Cons

* The casual community crying on the forums.

 

Third person is not being removed, we know that already.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Jamz

[Ken Bean 175]

take 2 guys ;)

 

1st guy name bob is play 1st person server :(

2nd guy name pete is play 3rd person server :)

 

pete see zeds before bob

pete see loots before bob

pete see player before bob

pete see car before bob

pete see round corner stay hide, bob need expose himself for look round corner

pete can stay inside house and look around outside, bob need to go out from house to look around outside

pete can look over wall, bob need to run round to other side to see over wall

 

 

pete play easier way, is not debate for this is fact :thumbsup:  :P

 

look again difficult setting list I put before, top half is first person bottom half is 3rd person.

 

is fact, why you deny this, is ok for me you want to play easy way, I don't give fucks what you do but stop please make pretend 3rd person is not easy mode. > :(

3rd person is not hardcore, is not normal is easy way :rolleyes:

 

 

EASY WAY!!!!

 

I wanted to know if there an offical difficulty setting "1st person only" exists.

Not what you personally think what is easy and what not. Difficulty from a developers view also is being determined by droprates , hitchances etc.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Ken Bean

[tommes 331]

Hi there all,

 

So there was debate long time ago, also around first/third person view. This thread somehow died and now I think we could just look at this Q'n'A.

 

 

 

 

Has this changed over time or there is still the fact, that you'll have to change it from 3rd to 1st in the menu if you'd like to go in-to scope or you'll just right-click for it? I hope answer I am looking is not off-topic. Thanks.

This might be a possible nerf for TPV but I guess TPV folks won't like it.

[wild_man 4442]

I wanted to know if there an offical difficulty setting "1st person only" exists.

 

yes on public hive is difficult setting

 

hardcore = 1st person only B)

veteran = 3rd person :huh:

etc etc

 

is variate for things like crosshair and waypoint but official hardcore public hive server is 1st person only :thumbsup:  ;)

[SMLE 39]

Discussion wise there's only 2 guys left argueing for TPV. Both do it really badly and in such a manner that my despise of this certain kind of DayZ player is confirmed. There's no point in further argueing with them. Any point made missed them entirely. They don't want to give in so it will never happen.

DayZ players are split into two base camps on PvP: the ones seeking PvP and the ones avoiding it.

They are als split into two base camps on 3rd person view. I believe PvP'ers are the same as 1st person players and therefore the 3rd person lovers belong to the PvP-avoiders.

I'm not sure that it is possible to really cater to both crowds at the same time respectively the same game.

Ok tommes can we try and have an adult discussion about this , we are not trying to score points off eachother it isn't a I win you loose situation we don't have to go all emo and despise anybody just speak our minds honestly .

I would like to ask you do you play 3rdp view and what are your main objections to it ?

cheers

Edited August 30, 2013 by SMLE

[wild_man 4442]

 what are your main objections to it ?

 

this guy is troll or what????

 

you watch video in original post???

 

you read 68 pages???

 

so why you ask objections? :huh:

objections same for all guys who want 1st person separate from 3rd person easy mode, even rocket say is problem with this 3rd person :D

[tommes 331]

Whereas I would love there to be different servers with different loot levels, so I could play on low tech loot servers only (actually the most 'hardcore'), I can see this open to abuse, with players going to FPV servers to farm high end weapons and then jumping to TPV servers with those weapons to give themselves an advantage equipment wise. In other words, an exploit, just like the one which this thread was supposed to be about. The only ways it would work would be either two separate hives or this option would be only available on private servers (which I'm in favour of personally).

That will happen for sure, but at least they will have to go to hardcore land to get the stuff. Something like entering a danger zone i.e. an airfield. If they then go back to lower difficulty servers I wouldn't care because I'd avoid those anyway.

They should also automatically adjust loot to a lower tier if there are less than 10 players on the server or something because going to NWAF on a completely abandoned server is nothing like hardcore.

[tommes 331]

I wanted to know if there an offical difficulty setting "1st person only" exists.

No.

[fluxley 2228]

Hi there all,

 

So there was debate long time ago, also around first/third person view. This thread somehow died and now I think we could just look at this Q'n'A.

 

 

 

You're going have to go into your menu to change it) it means if you actually want to shoot someone (you now don't have a cross hair), your going to actually have to look down the scope at someone or look down the iron sights so yes, I think it's a key focus.

 

 

 

 

Has this changed over time or there is still the fact, that you'll have to change it from 3rd to 1st in the menu if you'd like to go in-to scope or you'll just right-click for it? I hope answer I am looking is not off-topic. Thanks.

 

Don't know for sure but recent videos have shown the ability to swap from third to first person instantly without going to the option menu so i'm guessing that idea was scrapped, or maybe just put on hold.

 

There's been no crosshairs on recent videos.

[tommes 331]

Ok tommes can we try and have an adult discussion about this

Obviously not.

[SMLE 39]

Obviously not.

As I suspected but I had to try .

cheers

[rossums 2190]

I'd be fine with third-person as long as they fixed the viewable area.
With third-person able to peek over walls, through walls, round corners etc without your character physically doing it, it trvialises a lot of encounters.

If third-person view was fixed to the same as first-person and prevented you from peeking over walls, etc., I'd be fine with it.

The first-person view needs a little FOV tweak but that's about it.

[Jamz 253]

That will happen for sure, but at least they will have to go to hardcore land to get the stuff. Something like entering a danger zone i.e. an airfield. If they then go back to lower difficulty servers I wouldn't care because I'd avoid those anyway.

They should also automatically adjust loot to a lower tier if there are less than 10 players on the server or something because going to NWAF on a completely abandoned server is nothing like hardcore.

 

It sounds a bit complicated, but not a bad idea. I'd rename the server types 'Realism' (FPV/TPV, low tech weapons, lower food availability and more zombies) and 'Hardcore' (FPV only, higher tech weapons, easier survival dynamics). Then there are two balanced server settings, each giving a different gameplay experience and each catering for a different type of player.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Jamz