First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[dsi24 227]

In the end we are asking about nerf  the 3rd person so much that it's the same if you're playing in the 1st person?

It would be just better to leave it as it is and spent resources on other things or just remove the 3rd person.

 

This is a key thing that people digging around for compromise (a hilarious word, third person players know they can't compromise because compromise means they can't exploit) are missing. All the effort required to stop third person from being shit for the game but still existing in some form? Why bother? It's much easier to cut it out and work on things that actually matter.

[dsi24 227]

Sir,

 

No. Just, no.

 

Dslyecxi video has around 30.000 views and 3.000 likes/dislikes. That means every 10 person will approve that or deny "on paper". Since there are 2949 likes and 44 dislikes, that means ~99% of viewers would agree with him and would approve playing in 1st person. Poll: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/146017-first-vs-third-person-poll-post-your-vote-here-after-reading-dslyecxi-video-discussion/ is just another indicator of that and another poll made by SoulHunter I believe: https://docs.google....j2Sil4/viewform that confirms what majority is thinking about that. Looking into DayZ Commander and see there are mostly 3rd person server is wrong since admins and players are just following herd instinct, which went in wrong direction not aware of the issue.

 

I completely understand, that we are looking for alternatives around 3rd person view and how we could improve it. But we are looking forward to SA and fresh start. And here is reexaminations for all of us, and option for not to repeat the "mistake". If someone would like to have 100+ choppers and 900+ vehicles, 3rd person on, there will always be mod to do that.

 

Again, we have opportunity to make hard core survival game which was meant to be from the scratch.

 

Oh god if there would be M4A1 CCO SD in Amnesia, or just one server with that option I would finish the game, but I was to afraid to do that. But it's not. It does not exist and that is what makes game unique. And that should be DayZ.

 

Dean "Rocket" Hall:

 

"I think the best thing that could happen is if DayZ fell off a little," ... "I think if DayZ has a soft launch it's the best thing that can happen to it. Because then a few people will play it and say 'this is cool, I want to play it with my friends.' The best thing that could happen." 

"If most of the community who maybe thought DayZ was cool a year ago and now they think it's lame, I think that's probably good for us. We don't need to sell that many copies to break-even. We want to be a hardcore game and I think if we make a good game people will come back."

 

When you release something, you are not aware of all the exploit that would come. And if you don't fix that, game become lame as it is now. And to make people come back, 1st person is right step in that direction. I've learned, that on this forum you need to go into details of the detiles. Even if people know what you want to say, or you lack of englis knowledge to explain so well, they will still dig in to right there, where you didn't explain enough, even if that was self explaining.

 

TL;DR

 

Hi there 3rdy. Don't read that.

I'm just going to quote this post on every page in the hopes that Ken and SMLE and friends might accidentally read it at some point.

[dsi24 227]

Wow, what an ignorant statement. You're suggesting that 80% of the people who bought Arma to play DayZ mod did it specifically because DayZ included third person view? Tell me then, why did they not buy Arma2 years ago when it launched? Surely it had third person view at launch, if you're implying that's the deciding factor for people, dayz didnt introduce anything new.

 

Seriously tho, people would have bought dayz if it didn't even have third person view. CHKilroys videos became insanely popular early on in DayZs life, and he didn't enter third person once during any of them.

Ooh that's a good one!

 

The videos that started it all, that attracted all these people to what is apparently a third person game... were all filmed in first person... only in first person.

[Wayze 549]

Oh I know the moment as if it was yesterday. The first few weeks I played DayZ, I didn't even know about the third person mode (and I actually think there were not many server with it). I was so scared by the zombies, I never expirienced something like that. Then some day I was on a server with side chat enabled and someone asked "how to activate third person view?". The answere was "enter" and from that day all the zombies just were some annoying freaks. I played on third person from that day and I realised that many people always asked "how to activate third person view?". It was like 2 months and I think that was the time where players saw DayZ on youtube. They saw probably someone who played with third person, why else should they ask for it? So one day, later on, someone told me about frankieonpc and I watched his video. It was the time when hackers attacked dayz and public servers were unplayable. Before the time with the hackers everything was good, no AS50s everywhere, good first person servers etc.

And the hackers actually accomplished what they wanted, they destroyed the DayZ mod, because right now there is no survival game, just a simple deathmatch. And everyone else who says different just lies, even DayZero the new back to the "roots" mod is ridicilous. It is simply impossible to die by starvation. And this is supposed to be a survival game? I want to be hungry that I kill people just for a can of beans. I want the game to be a survival game again, not some third person arcade shooter shit. The only survival aspect in the game is that you lose everything when dying.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Wayze

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Not at all, you will be free to set up your own first person server, so there is no problem for you here at all, just this time you'll be giving back to the community for a change instead of taking.

 

This keeps getting thrown around on this thread.

 

"SA WILL HAVE FIRST PERSON SERVERS RELAX!"

 

but.... will it? Where's the proof? I see quite the opposite in Rockets words.

[wild_man 4442]

 

 

The videos that started it all, that attracted all these people to what is apparently a third person game... were all filmed in first person... only in first person.

is true 100% :beans:

 

first dayz movie was make when 3rd person don't exist :P early dayz was best dayz.

 

I am sad I miss this :(

but happy I find :D

imagine some guys don't know this shit exist :blush:

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

I. I was playing Vanilla DayZ last night, BTW. 3rd person server because there were 60 people there and my friend who doesn't like 1st wanted to play with us. I can tell you I was never hit by a zombie although I died last night. 

 

its cool your fine playing 3rd person with ur friends but then want it removed for everyone else that enjoys 3rd.

[Ken Bean 175]

I am certain it doesn't matter if the zeds can knock me down, infect me, or do more damage IF THEY NEVER GET A CHANCE TO HIT ME BECAUSE I CAN SEE THEM COMING FROM PERFECTLY SAFE COVER AND AVOID THEM COMPLETELY. I was playing Vanilla DayZ last night, BTW. 3rd person server because there were 60 people there and my friend who doesn't like 1st wanted to play with us. I can tell you I was never hit by a zombie although I died last night.

Yet another invinciple 3rd person exploiter who excessively uses it for pvp. Well I could tell you sth about my current char, but maybe it's pointless. So I'm playing a survival game and I'm quite good in surviving (not in pvp). My char is 91 days old and I played some hours on a 1st person server without dying. (But I died very often almost in these 91 days.)

I think I'm totally qualified to say what I like and what not. I consider myself a survival gamer. That's why I chose this game. Thats why I wouldn't join a server with 60 (?) player. You seems to be a 1st person pvp fan. Tell you what? I don't care what you like. There are 1st person server out there. Go play there. Keep your complains and excuses for you. Leave me alone, I'm playing the game how I think I play it.

I read a lot of excuses why you can't play on 1st person server. Strange thing is: Joining such a server is totally easy. There always is a friend who prevents folks like you from playing on 1st person server. Now they are litteraly empty. If you ask me, this sounds a bit fishy.

"Hey, 1st person is the holy grail. I just don't play on those server. But I glady call you whimp and do everything I can to destroy the gameplay you like."

Dude, there are so many 1st person titles out there... Grab one and be happy!

@the other post from you:

Well that's the marketing information...

(Usualy made by people who have no clue for people who have no clue)

Edited August 29, 2013 by Ken Bean

[RedNome 443]

This keeps getting thrown around on this thread.

 

"SA WILL HAVE FIRST PERSON SERVERS RELAX!"

 

but.... will it? Where's the proof? I see quite the opposite in Rockets words.

 

If people want to host them I see no reason for them not being allowed, both views are still in the SA build as we've seen, and I've seen nothing from Rocket to suggest otherwise.

 

If you could supply me with a quote that I may have missed that says otherwise I would appreciate it, thanks.

[Jamz 253]

This is a key thing that people digging around for compromise (a hilarious word, third person players know they can't compromise because compromise means they can't exploit) are missing. All the effort required to stop third person from being shit for the game but still existing in some form? Why bother? It's much easier to cut it out and work on things that actually matter.

 

Thats a very simple way of looking at it, but maybe things aren't quite so black and white as you seem to think. You probably won't understand this but both types of view have benefits and negatives, the trick is to lose the negatives and combine the positives. Its not a compromise, more like building something better out of two broken things.

[Ken Bean 175]

I have another idea. Release two DayZ stand alone versions. One we could call "DayZ - the survival game" (which provides 1st and 3rd person) and the other we call "DayZ Deathmatch - most hardcore realistic super immersive hardcore game" (which only provides 1st person).

Okay, I admit, was a bit kidding right now.

[mercules 1290]

its cool your fine playing 3rd person with ur friends but then want it removed for everyone else that enjoys 3rd.

 

Actually, if TPV was not allowed or available my friend who plays Borderlands with me would not insist on TPV. I've stated before, he is a loot whore and the type of person who eploits every advantage a game allows him. So trying to explain to him the value of a horror sim that is limits what he can do is about as pointless as trying to explain it to you. He looks at the game and goes, "Well, 3rd person is allowed, so why are we not on a TPV server?" Hell, we was wiling to play on a Nametag server because then it would be harder for people to hide and ambush him since he only cares about filling a Ural/tent up with cool guns and stuff. 

I could just not play with my friend but games are our social outlet since our group of friends has gone in different directions and lives in different locations. So he compromises by playing DayZ which is not his style of game and we compromise by not forcing him to play on a FPV server when he plays with us. Just like when I play DDO with him he compromises in going into dungeons short handed without classes X, Y, and Z because I like to make them challenges when his preferred style of play is memorizing the dungeon and bringing exactly what you need so you can get it done in 5 minutes instead of messing around for a half hour in it exploring and fighting it all. 

 

So yes, since someone gave him an out to play in an easier mode, he is going to want to take it and have hard feelings if I say I don't. I am about ready to just flip my server over and make him deal with it but I just got them back into playing DayZ. 

 

Yet another invinciple 3rd person exploiter who excessively uses it for pvp. Well I could tell you sth about my current char, but maybe it's pointless. So I'm playing a survival game and I'm quite good in surviving (not in pvp). My char is 91 days old and I played some hours on a 1st person server without dying. (But I died very often almost in these 91 days.)

I think I'm totally qualified to say what I like and what not. I consider myself a survival gamer. That's why I chose this game. Thats why I wouldn't join a server with 60 (?) player. You seems to be a 1st person pvp fan. Tell you what? I don't care what you like. There are 1st person server out there. Go play there. Keep your complains and excuses for you. Leave me alone, I'm playing the game how I think I play it.

I read a lot of excuses why you can't play on 1st person server. Strange thing is: Joining such a server is totally easy. There always is a friend who prevents folks like you from playing on 1st person server. Now they are litteraly empty. If you ask me, this sounds a bit fishy.

"Hey, 1st person is the holy grail. I just don't play on those server. But I glady call you whimp and do everything I can to destroy the gameplay you like."

Dude, there are so many 1st person titles out there... Grab one and be happy!

@the other post from you:

Well that's the marketing information...

(Usualy made by people who have no clue for people who have no clue)

 

No, ~I~ play on FPV servers. I have a friend who refuses to. One bad apple spoils the rest. Since he won't, ~we~ can't... when we play with him. I hopped on a seriously populated server because our group had decided as a group to see if we could find those who typically snipe bambi players. The other night we hunted down and killed three bandits, last night we were less successful. We were actually attempting to make Electro/Cherno a bit safer for new spawns in fact I wasn't shooting people who were not shooting at me, my friends, or that didn't have a bandit skin already. 

 

Yes, I have a friend who smokes cigarettes and I can't make him stop. If I want to hang out with him I have to put up with him occasionally taking a "smoke break" or wanting to sit outside in the heat so he can smoke while we have a beer, or whatever. I also have a friend who doesn't want to play TPV because it is "harder" and you know what, like Borderlands if TPV never was an option he wouldn't bitch about it. He plays Borderlands just fine. Just like the smoker he has a flaw and because he is my friend I tease and cajole him about it, but in the end I still care about him and want to spend time with him and give in. 

You are not my friend I could care less about your comfort level while playing.I still believe FPV is a better choice for a simulator that otherwise tries to be realistic and have systems in to simulate being a person in a zombie apocalypse. 

[mercules 1290]

I have another idea. Release two DayZ stand alone versions. One we could call "DayZ - the survival game" (which provides 1st and 3rd person) and the other we call "DayZ Deathmatch - most hardcore realistic super immersive hardcore game" (which only provides 1st person).

Okay, I admit, was a bit kidding right now.

 

I think you mean:

DayZ - Guardian Angel: Guide a person through the deadly and dangerous zombie apocalypse from a high level view. Guide them away from danger they can't see by looking over fences and around trees for them so that they don't stumble into trouble and die. Keep your charge alive as long as you can and feel good about it as you use your supernatural powers to intercede on their behalf.

and 

DayZ - Stand Alone: Experience a zombie apocalypse from the unique perspective of someone actually in it. You are the survivor and experience what they experience from behind their eyes. 

[tommes 331]

We get to the point. And you wonder about the kill on sight problematic... -.-

I absolutely do not wonder.

We might even ditch that phony "...it's a survival simulator..." thingy. It's not. Your mama's freshly filled fridge is only steps away. You don't feel any actual hunger. Nobody is threatening to kill you. The hardest you will encounter while playing DayZ is having to piss and not be able to log out.

In the beginning of DayZ the world was unknown and therefore a threat. That moment is gone. The world has been figured out quite well. The only challenge left is other players. Of course this doesn't concern you if you are not looking for a real challenge which is the case for large portions of the DayZ playerbase.

[terrvik 2409]

How does perspective have anything to do with KoS and deathmatching? :huh:

[Wayze 549]

I think you mean:

DayZ - Guardian Angel: Guide a person through the deadly and dangerous zombie apocalypse from a high level view. Guide them away from danger they can't see by looking over fences and around trees for them so that they don't stumble into trouble and die. Keep your charge alive as long as you can and feel good about it as you use your supernatural powers to intercede on their behalf.

and 

DayZ - Stand Alone: Experience a zombie apocalypse from the unique perspective of someone actually in it. You are the survivor and experience what they experience from behind their eyes. 

Exactly!

On the one hand Dean is doing everything to let the game be immersive and on the other hand he does the most contraproductive thing to reach his goal, which is third person view. You simply never feel as if it was you in the situation.

[tommes 331]

...which presently defies pidgeonholeing...

When I peep through a hole I want to see tits and not Zeds!

[Ken Bean 175]

I absolutely do not wonder.

We might even ditch that phony "...it's a survival simulator..." thingy. It's not. Your mama's freshly filled fridge is only steps away. You don't feel any actual hunger. Nobody is threatening to kill you. The hardest you will encounter while playing DayZ is having to piss and not be able to log out.

In the beginning of DayZ the world was unknown and therefore a threat. That moment is gone. The world has been figured out quite well. The only challenge left is other players. Of course this doesn't concern you if you are not looking for a real challenge which is the case for large portions of the DayZ playerbase.

I play DayZ when I want to play a survival game.

If I want to play player versus player, I play Battlefield. Know why? It actually has way better 1st person combat than DayZ. And the other players also know why we are there.

But keep your elitism aside, have a closer look what you just wrote.

Did you try to insult me or the game?

YOU are wrong here. YOU don't like the game as it is. YOU are the one who shlould have a look for another game. Maybe you are happy then?

Edited August 29, 2013 by Ken Bean

[tommes 331]

How does perspective have anything to do with KoS and deathmatching? :huh:

Simple. Carebears want TPV. They don't fight. So they don't care about having a fair fighting system. Don't need one if you stick to low pop servers and never meet someone.

[big_t 66]

Oh I know the moment as if it was yesterday. The first few weeks I played DayZ, I didn't even know about the third person mode (and I actually think there were not many server with it). I was so scared by the zombies, I never expirienced something like that. Then some day I was on a server with side chat enabled and someone asked "how to activate third person view?". The answere was "enter" and from that day all the zombies just were some annoying freaks. I played on third person from that day and I realised that many people always asked "how to activate third person view?"

 

 

Ahh I remember it too,  just coming over from BF3 , I heard through a website about dayz. I had no idea about 3rd person so I played for like 2 weeks in 1rst person and it was the scariest, most intense game I had ever played. I never had a game that actually increased my pulse so much, it was visceral.

 

I never felt a lack of situational awareness, nor I did really care about the physical appearance of my character, it was the apocalypse after all.  The only thing that took getting used to was the aiming and ballistics.

 

Then of course I hear about people talking about 3rd person, then I see a youtube video about a guy exploiting 3rd person vision from an ATC tower. Pretty much from then on I was forced into 3rd person because everyone else was exploiting, so why be at a disadvantage??

 

Now we are in this long circular thread and 3rd person enthusiasts can make no real reason to keep it in the game other than , it's more comfortable, and I need to see my backpack all game long. :)

Edited August 29, 2013 by Big_T

[mercules 1290]

How does perspective have anything to do with KoS and deathmatching? :huh:

 

I explained my reasoning above, but a short form of it.

TPV makes zombies less dangerous since unlike other players they can't exploit it. Zombies and loot spawn from the same area so less dangerous zombies mean more accessible loot. While some people would PvP for no reason at all, some players wouldn't except they get bored. Either camp usually needs to gear up before they can PvP and start dropping into the KoS ideology. Since it is so easy to loot, and it takes less time with TPV it actually leads to people being ready to PvP sooner after dying and leads to "I have all the stuff I need, I don't need another tent full of beans... I guess I'll go try and shoot some people." 

It's not the cause but I think it helps lead there.

[terrvik 2409]

Maybe. I was mostly confounded by the statement that the FPV brigade prefer PvP and deathmatching. I don't see how that would have anything to do with it.

 

Again; I play mostly FPV and I avoid combat at all costs.

[mercules 1290]

Maybe. I was mostly confounded by the statement that the FPV brigade prefer PvP and deathmatching. I don't see how that would have anything to do with it.

 

Again; I play mostly FPV and I avoid combat at all costs.

 

Well, yeah, it's logical. When you hear gunfire you try and mark the direction and likely move away from it. I do that. Why? because to scan for who is firing I have to have my HEAD OUT THERE where it can be shot and look around and I can't be sure they are not facing my direction with their gun already up. 

On a TPV server I just stand on the opposite side of cover from the direction I heard shots from and look around until I spot the person since they can't see me  or shoot me. You can't do that in FPV and it is dangerous to try and get eyes on them if you have a safe exit route.

[Heiduk 265]

CHKilroys videos became insanely popular early on in DayZs life, and he didn't enter third person once during any of them.

Hell, even the bloody YOGSCAST videos in early to mid July of last year were done mostly in 1st person. I blame it on FrankieonPC, he ruined it for everyone, and everybody already knows he's a cheater.  :P 

 

If people want to host them [1st person servers] I see no reason for them not being allowed

I thought it was still a bit of an open question as to whether anyone will be able to host their own servers or if they will all be run by Bohemia?

[Ken Bean 175]

Simple. Carebears want TPV. They don't fight. So they don't care about having a fair fighting system. Don't need one if you stick to low pop servers and never meet someone.

Wrong game dude, play Battlefield.

And as said a thousand times, the fight system is fair. Everyone has equal chances. You just dont want to understand, right?

If you have a problem then actually name it. It doesnt help if you call a fair fighting system unfair because you cant properly point out your issue otherwise.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Ken Bean