First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[Feral (DayZ) 622]

Just to tell you, in FPS you can also use alt to look behind your head.

Just sayin'

no in FPS you can 'free look' to see over your shoulder, like in real life

 

free look btw effectively extends FOV in all directions completely removing any relevance for 3rd person doing the same thing.

 

get rid

[terrvik 2409]

Read the last twelve pages.

 

The only reasons I've found in the last twelve pages to support third person have all been points towards why first person is better. Please redirect me towards what I've missed. :)

 

The only real reason is the fact that some people feel sick in first person. Legit reason, but isn't this more because the limited FOV which will be fixed in the SA?

[Feral (DayZ) 622]

The only reasons I've found in the last twelve pages to support third person have all been points towards why first person is better. Please redirect me towards what I've missed. :) you missed nowt, there are no rational arguments for 3p

 

The only real reason is the fact that some people feel sick in first person. Legit reason, that nausea they mention? it's brought on by an attack of the nerves at the thought of the crutch being removed

 

but isn't this more because the limited FOV which will be fixed in the SA? indeed, along with head bob, both FIXED

Edited August 23, 2013 by (MUC) Feral

[BigChef 55]

Great, except you can turn off the headbob motion and movement blur off and 1st person becomes exactly the same as 3rd except you are not 1.5 meters up and back from your character's perspective. So that argument is debunked. 

 

 

It's a FPS survival sim. The difference is not that big. It is built off a FPS engine that should never had have 3rd person in it. It actually becomes harder to survive with 3rd person turned off since you can't see Zombies over fences, or have to actually look over the edge of a building to see where people are. It's not "Simulating" much in 3rd person the simulation actually comes in when you are locked into the perspective of your avatar instead of being able to see all the way around it. So even if it wasn't primarily FPS it would still be better in first person because that better simulates the survival aspect.

 

 

 

I'd be curious to see what he has turned on and off... My wife doesn't when going first person with stuff like headbob disabled and she gets motion sick in cars just from riding in them.

I tried playing last night in just 1st person...I had the head bob turned off, guess I missed or didn't know how to turn off "movement Blur" one of the things I really dislike about FP, the blur is anoying as hell, so is getting stuck in doorways and navigating in the small industrial sheds is a bitch and I got stuck in bushes A LOT. I mean REALLY tried for better than an hour to play in FP only and it was difficult....yes, it's supposed to be difficult, but it was difficult to enjoy. The thing I missed the most was the point of reference, in 3rd person I have a greater awareness of where I am, like now, sitting behind my desk. In FP I could see my hands and my key board but the peripheral is lost. Whipping your head around to get a different view via the number pad and then refocusing straight ahead messes me up. I do agree that the camera angle being a meter and a half above the head sucks and should be lowered...and I could care less how the guy looks, that has never been part of my argument.

I will play again tonight in FP..how to turn off the movement blur???

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

Now it is getting interesting... The majority of the servers have 3dp on and the majority of the players freely pick up 3dp on those servers. This is the reality.  But guess what?

 

 A few elitists mods have now decided that all tbose players must NOT do that anymore and have decided it is obviously WRONG to allow those players to choose to play with 3dp on servers and the server owners should NOT have any option anymore. For the greater good of dayz of course  :)

 

What is the next step? To allow only the truly "Arian" players chosen by you to play dayz in the pure way of playing you only know?

 

The thread is going beyond pathetic.

 

_Anubis_

[Garmalak 16]

Video options.

[ZooBeastman 12]

I think there's still a lot of ignoring that people simply find the 3rd person fun. It doesn't really matter so much why they do, just that they do.

 

Nearly every video I've seen from GamesCom is 3rd person. Some people just like being able to see their character. Some people have their fill of 1st person shooters elsewhere (and some the reverse).

 

Yeah it might be easier, yeah it might not be as authentic but that doesn't make it less fun to everyone. Fun is very subjective.

 

We all have our lines to cross, I'd be disappointed if there's a way of avoiding night; I like night, I think my most fun experiences on dayz have been at night. If there are servers without night I'm sure more people will play there and that's bad for me on my lonely night servers. I appreciate however that some people will simply have more fun in that environment, The most valuable thing in entertainment is fun. Fun is subjective, some of us find hard things more rewarding, some find it frustrating and pointless. It's very much an each to his own kind of thing.

 

We all have our own DayZ and I hope the Standalone will be capable of providing the majority of people with a play-mode they recognise and enjoy or rather I hope the Standalone provides everyone the experience I enjoy :P

[St. Jimmy 1631]

I tried playing last night in just 1st person...I had the head bob turned off, guess I missed or didn't know how to turn off "movement Blur"

Video options and turn off Post Processing. Only thing it really does is add blur so you shouldn't even use it. Higher levels it adds AO that basically doesn't do anything in Arma 2 and that eats HUGE amount of fps.

Edited August 23, 2013 by St. Jimmy

[fluxley 2228]

I tried playing last night in just 1st person...I had the head bob turned off, guess I missed or didn't know how to turn off "movement Blur" one of the things I really dislike about FP, the blur is anoying as hell, so is getting stuck in doorways and navigating in the small industrial sheds is a bitch and I got stuck in bushes A LOT. I mean REALLY tried for better than an hour to play in FP only and it was difficult....yes, it's supposed to be difficult, but it was difficult to enjoy. The thing I missed the most was the point of reference, in 3rd person I have a greater awareness of where I am, like now, sitting behind my desk. In FP I could see my hands and my key board but the peripheral is lost. Whipping your head around to get a different view via the number pad and then refocusing straight ahead messes me up. I do agree that the camera angle being a meter and a half above the head sucks and should be lowered...and I could care less how the guy looks, that has never been part of my argument.

I will play again tonight in FP..how to turn off the movement blur???

 Go to video options and turn post processing off

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I just want to hear some nice ideas for maybe restricting the 3rd person cam a bit.  Is that too much to ask?

 

I highly doubt Dean will completely remove the 3rd person cam but he has said they'll look at ways of changing how it works so that it can't be used to look around corners and and over walls etc.

 

With that in mind here is our/your chance to speak directly to the devs and let them know how you think that could be done, don't waste it by banging on about the same old shite for page after page.  It's an issue that needs to be addressed, here's where you get to say how you think that could be achieved.

 

There are many things currently in the mod that are a direct side effect of it being a mod of Arma 2 (map markers, name plates, legs breaking in a gust of wind etc.)  These weren't design choices for the mod, they are there by default.  The SA isn't a mod so these issues need to be discussed as there is now an opportunity for the devs to build the game as they see fit.

 

Hint - Saying it doesn't need fixing is not a solution the devs are looking for.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Fraggle

[Feral (DayZ) 622]

I just want to hear some nice ideas for maybe restricting the 3rd person cam a bit.  Is that too much to ask?

 

Hint - Saying it doesn't need fixing is not a solution the devs are looking for.

how about this

if you select third person every other player is rendered invisible for as long as you use it, switch back to 1st and you can see players again, this way you can still use it to position your character, check your bearings and admire your characters lovely new t-shirt.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

I think there's still a lot of ignoring that people simply find the 3rd person fun. It doesn't really matter so much why they do, just that they do.

 

Nearly every video I've seen from GamesCom is 3rd person. Some people just like being able to see their character. Some people have their fill of 1st person shooters elsewhere (and some the reverse).

 

Yeah it might be easier, yeah it might not be as authentic but that doesn't make it less fun to everyone. Fun is very subjective.

 

We all have our lines to cross, I'd be disappointed if there's a way of avoiding night; I like night, I think my most fun experiences on dayz have been at night. If there are servers without night I'm sure more people will play there and that's bad for me on my lonely night servers. I appreciate however that some people will simply have more fun in that environment, The most valuable thing in entertainment is fun. Fun is subjective, some of us find hard things more rewarding, some find it frustrating and pointless. It's very much an each to his own kind of thing.

 

We all have our own DayZ and I hope the Standalone will be capable of providing the majority of people with a play-mode they recognise and enjoy or rather I hope the Standalone provides everyone the experience I enjoy :P

^^^this guy gets it^^^

 

ps ill be over on the daylite server.. :rolleyes:

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Again - So lets assume it's not going to be removed but instead tweaked for the SA (as suggested by Dean at Gamescom).

 

No need to get pissed off with me because I don't like 3rd person cams, the fact is it's probably not going anywhere.  My opinion carries no more weight than yours, they'll be reading this thread.  

 

AGAIN though, they are looking at ways to adjust it so now's your chance to give your ideas of how that could be done.

 

This is just a discussion, please keep your toys firmly in your prams.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Fraggle

[-Gews- 7443]

Of course Dslyecxi is right, I don't think there are any good arguments for third-person, whether in a vehicle or not... still, I won't handicap myself by only playing in first on a third-person server, which usually happen to be the most populated ones.

 

I would be in favor of removing it for the standalone, but of course that won't happen: third-person is extremely popular and Bohemia wouldn't want to piss off 95% of the player base.

 

I don't really care if most servers have 3DP on or not - "most" servers also have many additions to the map, increased weapons, spawn with gear and/or weapons - I hope people wouldn't want that to be in the standalone...

[mercules 1290]

Now it is getting interesting... The majority of the servers have 3dp on and the majority of the players freely pick up 3dp on those servers. This is the reality.  But guess what?

 

 A few elitists mods have now decided that all tbose players must NOT do that anymore and have decided it is obviously WRONG to allow those players to choose to play with 3dp on servers and the server owners should NOT have any option anymore. For the greater good of dayz of course  :)

 

What is the next step? To allow only the truly "Arian" players chosen by you to play dayz in the pure way of playing you only know?

 

The thread is going beyond pathetic.

 

_Anubis_

 

1. Yes, the majority have 3rd person turned on. Yes the majority of the players play on those servers. That doesn't mean it is the best option for DayZ going forward. The majority of the people in the world live in China but that doesn't mean we should all learn to speak Chinese and adopt their culture. What happens is that we go where the people are and where our friends are. I have friends that don't mind 1st person at all, but find 3rd easier and sometimes just want to go the easy route. They would not complain (much or for long) if 3rd person was removed but since it is available they take the path of least resistance. Even they admitted in a discussion not long ago that the game is different in 1st person. When I asked why I shouldn't switch my server over to forced 1st the main reason they gave me was that it was a bit more difficult to drive vehicles and that the other servers have 3rd on and since we sometimes hop over to other servers we might as well be used to it.

Basically once you give 3rd person as an option to use everyone does because it makes the game simpler and gives tactical advantages. That means there is no, "Why can't we allow both?" because one excludes the other when both are available.

2. You stepped awfully close to Godwin's Law there. Yeah, I might cut our your style of play to get my own but that is because your style of play ALREADY excludes my preferred style. Yes the mass of people who can't handle it want to play 3rd person, but only because it is the easy route. The conception of DayZ was never "easy route", not from the first days. I didn't play back during the early releases but I watched the videos and they were great, especially the ones on servers that only had 1st person. Now if you want numbers of players then you go to the 3rd person servers or turn yours into 3rd person so that "easy mode" is on and people will come. 

3. Check out this debate as it concerns Mechwarrior Online. Previous Mechwarrior games had 3rd person but WMO does not. Devs stuck to their guns and the game is better for it. Trust me, all the reasons given in this thread came up and were dismissed because they really don't have merit when dealing with this sort of game.

 

^^^this guy gets it^^^

 

ps ill be over on the daylite server.. :rolleyes:

 

It is, "P.S. I'll be over on the daylight server." and I'll be feeling bad that you won't be able to experience how good Day Z can be. Then again the only person you are cheating out of a good experience is yourself.

[Skat3rat 1633]

So moving on to ideas for 3rd person...

 

Maybe a way they could "tweak" it is somehow cut off your vision if you're up near a wall or something.  I'll try and explain what I mean.

 

So there you are, looking straight forward.  There is a wall on your right.  You are in 3rd person and you walk over to the right.  You have your head right up next to the wall.  Your fov in 3rd person has now been cut off on your right, and you CAN'T see over the wall.

 

I don't know if it's possible to do what I suggested, but none the less, it is a suggestion.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Skat3rat

[Mook 11]

My eyes vote for 3rd person, brains vote for 1st person.

 

If that only made any sense 

[mercules 1290]

The most realistic solution is to simply lock it in directly behind the person's head with just enough clearance for them to see over their own head, but that still lets them peek over things so really solves nothing. 

Maybe move the point of view back about a foot behind someone's head and make them transparent?

Mechwarrior Online devs toyed with the idea of not drawing anything not scenary that were not in Line of Sight from 1st person perspective but that brought in coding issues of what to draw when and the system had to track the two FoV and determine what could be seen twice doubling the work load on the computer and server. Tons of complex and hard to bring about solutions were looked at and scrapped and it was more or less concluded that there was no way to allow 3rd person that didn't give it an advantage over the 1st person perspective. 
 

[terrvik 2409]

Put the third person camera closer to the player character.

Put the camera on the shoulder and let us "switch" shoulder like Metal Gear or The Last of Us does it.

Don't allow 360 degrees freelook while in third person.

 

By the way, why is it that there are only people who prefer first person that are suggesting fixes so far? :P
 

[Skat3rat 1633]

Put the third person camera closer to the player character.

Put the camera on the shoulder and let us "switch" shoulder like Metal Gear or The Last of Us does it.

Don't allow 360 degrees freelook while in third person.

 

By the way, why is it that there are only people who prefer first person that are suggesting fixes so far? :P

 

 

Well I like third person, but I suggested an idea.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

 

 

It is, "P.S. I'll be over on the daylight server." and I'll be feeling bad that you won't be able to experience how good Day Z can be. Then again the only person you are cheating out of a good experience is yourself.

 

so in addition to telling others how to play, you also moonlite as a grammer nazi ?

 

hhah..

[terrvik 2409]

Well I like third person, but I suggested an idea.

 

Wasn't referring to you, but the people who calls me an asshole and compares me to a nazi but then abandons thread as soon as a real discussion sparks. :)

Edited August 23, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[svisketyggeren 662]

Let there be seperate 1st person and 3rd person servers, arguing/discussing what u guys and girls prefer is just futile...maybe 1% is converted from 1st to 3rd and 1% is converted from 1st to 3rd from this thread, just pointless.

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

...

Yes, the majority have 3rd person turned on. Yes the majority of the players play on those servers. That doesn't mean it is the best option for DayZ going forward

...

Basically once you give 3rd person as an option to use everyone does because it makes the game simpler and gives tactical advantages. That means there is no, "Why can't we allow both?" because one excludes the other when both are available.

...

 

Interesting post, especially the remark to Godwin's Law :D  it is rare to see something like that here. I have taken the freedom to keep only two parts of your post because I wanted to answer to you about those and clarify:

 

Yes, the majority have 3rd person turned on. Yes the majority of the players play on those servers. That doesn't mean it is the best option for DayZ going forward

 

I am not a follower of Rocket or have his icon close to my bed where I light candles to him before going to sleep. Dayz is not my religion and I do not have the arrogance to think that *I* know what is best for dayz. I merely try to have fun with it by meeting other players (in that I dislike a KoS-oriented playstyle for example, but I accept each one has his or her way of thinking, it is a basic principle of democracy). I simply like 3dp more than 1st person. Nothing else or nothing more (and as I explained, I do understand the periscope effect). 

 

I daresay the vast majority of the other casual players (like me) have a similar way of thinking and simply enjoy 3dp more than 1st. Easy as that. So there are automatically more 3dp on servers than 3dp off. So people like more certain clothes, or cars or whatever or vote for the left party or the right party.  Right or wrong does not apply here.

 

Basically once you give 3rd person as an option to use everyone does because it makes the game simpler and gives tactical advantages. That means there is no, "Why can't we allow both?" because one excludes the other when both are available.

 

If everyone does it it means everyone is happy with it. Is that so difficult to accept? People have the right to choose (again, it is called democracy).

 

Keep in mind it provides NO TACTICAL ADVANTAGE because on a 3dp on server EVERYONE has access to it. If you decide to play always 1st person on a 3rd on server YOU alone have an handicap and it is your fault. You have a 3dp off server for that purpose. It is like being vegetarian and going to an Argentine restaurant and complain that every dish is meat based...

 

You see, I am not stating 3rd is better, purer, more appropriate you-name-it compared to 1st (or the other way around). I am simply saying that people must be free to choose to play how they like to have fun. That's the purpose. I accept you like 1st person more. Fine. Just stick to a 3dp off server and feel free to play with the rest of the population who says "1st person or bust". Exactly like I stick to 3dp on servers because I like to play with 3dp on to explore and 1st person to fight.

 

Cheers,

 

_Anubis_

[mercules 1290]

so in addition to telling others how to play, you also moonlite as a grammer nazi ?

 

hhah..

 

*sigh* It's "moonlight" and "grammar". 

It would behoove a person who is communicating via a text based medium to attempt to communicate in the best possible manner especially if they wish their ideas and thoughts to be taken seriously. While it is very possible or likely that you are not from an English speaking country, most languages still utilize "capital letters" and you do seem educated in writing English even if you chose to do so poorly. I can ignore it for a while but when it is spectacularly poor I tend to point it out and then hopefully move onward. Notice I ignored it for a long while?

I am not telling you how to play. I am stating that your method of playing interferes with mine and that 1st person is a better fit for a game like this because of reasons I have stated. You have disagreed because you want to, but have yet to give a compelling reason for your desire to have 3rd person other than you "want it". Good luck convincing me 3rd person has merit with, "Because I personally like it." and "You can't tell me how to play."