What is „The Infection“? a definition (-approach)

[joe_mcentire 2074]

Now and then there are new threads concerning infections in general, „The Infection“, Zeds and their overall behaviour and how everything coheres.

It is always interesting to see how ppl fight over logic-issues on what a zombie should be capable of, what its natural behaviour should look like, how „The Infection“ has to affect living creatures etc..

There were some determining factors set by Dean and his devs:

• Zeds are not dead; they were infected by a virus (or bacteria?): „The Infection“
• Players are immune to „The Infection“ as well as animals
• Zeds have no inhuman powers (as they are still slowly dying humans?)

But still some questions remain unanswered:

1. Why do some hop, why do some crawl instead to run?

2. Why can’t they interact with objects in their environment (besides climbing ladders, opening doors, swimming)

3. Why do they get attracted by fireplaces and noise?

4. Why do they investigate thrown objects?

5. Why do they kill none-infected and not also each other, or at least animals?

6. Do Zeds kill because of a destructive urge or do they kill due to survival instincts?

7. Do Zeds seem to die from this deadly disease?

Do you think some changes would be useful or even necessary? Do you think some implementations should be reconsidered again? My idea is simply to create a solid and somewhat reasonable background-story to „The Infection“ and how it behaves and how it affects living creatures. (if there were some virologists/bacteriologists/meds..that’d be great)

edit: Furthermore there should be some kind of conistency in terms of behaviour and appearance

edit: Maybe we can compile suggestions here and work them through

Edited July 29, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[Private Evans 1303]

argh..will post later on when I am back from the hospital ( not looting ;) ) ..very interesting thread :beans:

[-Gews- 7443]

If you've seen the movie 28 Days Later, you should already know the answer. It's simple: monkeys.

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1. Why do some hop, why do some crawl instead of running?

Monkeys. Some are more monkey-like than others. You could say "less evolved". The crawling ones are slightly retarded.

Quote

2. Why can’t they interact with objects in their environment (besides climbing ladders, opening doors)

Monkeys. They don't know how to use their opposable thumbs!

Quote

3. Why do they get attracted by fireplaces and noise?

4. Why do they investigate thrown objects?

Monkeys.

Quote

5. Why do they kill none-infected and not also each other, or at least animals?

Monkeys. The great apes are quite peaceful creatures, and only attack when threatened. For instance, by a survivor sneaking around acting all suspicious-like.

Quote

6. Do Zeds kill because of a destructive urge or do they kill due to surival instincts?

Monkeys. The damn things are chaotic creatures by nature!

Quote

7. Do Zeds seem to die from this deadly disease?

Monkeys. Wild gorillas may survive to age 35, and wild chimps live about 50 years.

Edited February 13, 2021 by -Gews-

[dallas 5195]

Don't worry Dr. Dick's already on it

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

1) Possibly Injured? Or maybe the 'crawlers' are older infected, lost enough brain function/motor skills to where they can't use their legs effectively or stand anymore. 'Hoppers' could be something along thous lines, or it could be they realize they could move about a little better like that. 'Walkers' look awkward when they move around (when their not running), so maybe its something like arthritis? This is still just guesses on my part, the Virus might be slowly killing them or degrading their bodies, but you would think that if they were 'in pain' or had a broken/hurt limb they would go from standing to crawling rather than hopping.

2) I've got nothing...I would hope that in SA they can't use ladders or open doors very well. Its like their just smart enough to remember some things but they can't remember how to even use a club.

3) Vague memories maybe? Fire=warmth, food, safety. And noise usually means food.

4) Instinct maybe? Something has to be making that noise, maybe I can eat it?

5) Pheromones or something? Might just be the game mechanics (zombies might be considered on the same 'team' so they don't do friendly fire and animals are considered neutral or something so they don't attack them). Might be something that gets 'fixed' in standalone, (Rocket has said something about 'lifespans' for zombies, maybe as they get 'older' or more hungry they'll start attacking other zombies or go after animals.

6) Humans have the Mammalian brain, and the reptilian brain. Mammalian brain (the larger part) contains all the 'higher functions' that we use day to day. The Reptilian brain is more of the 'core' that contains the base functions we need to survive, to quote the Great George Carlin 'eat, kill, and fuck' (and not necessarily in that order), fucking being to reproduce, kill being the means to eat or defend yourself, and eat being eat.

7) I would assume they are dieing slowly, weather its from the disease or from starvation/dehydration. I know Rabies (considered one of the candidates for a real 'Zombie' Virus if it ever mutated into something airborne) has a 'time limit' so to speak, the infected usually goes crazy and aggressive then dies (forgot if it was a few hours or a few days).

[byrgesen 1341]

There were some determining factors set by Dean and his devs:

• Zeds are not dead; they were infected by a virus (or bacteria?): „The Infection“
  
• Players are immune to „The Infection“ as well as animals
  
• Zeds have no inhuman powers (as they are still slowly dying humans?)
  

But still some questions remain unanswered:

1. Why do some hop, why do some crawl instead of running?

2. Why can’t they interact with objects in their environment (besides climbing ladders, opening doors)

3. Why do they get attracted by fireplaces and noise?

4. Why do they investigate thrown objects?

5. Why do they kill none-infected and not also each other, or at least animals?

6. Do Zeds kill because of a destructive urge or do they kill due to surival instincts?

7. Do Zeds seem to die from this deadly disease?

Finally, lets try and narrow down what kind of infected we are dealing with :)

1: Could simulate the level of decay the brain is in, forgetting more and more fundamental stuff, like walking or even "bunny jumping", causing them to finally crawl around.

2: TBH if they are gonna have the skill to open doors, they should only do it whe chasing a player. It doesnt make much sense they open doors just to open doors :) And they should be able to open doors based on the "lvl of decay", so old infected cant remember it, but fresh ones would.

3: Well, it would depend on what area of the brain gets stimulated by the virus. They might have extra activity in the visual part, or hearing part of the brain because they are instincly looking for something to feed on. One could assume only the primal funtions work, like sight, hearing and smell, but no higher funtion like reasoning or "thinking". So they would see "unusual" movement and just react to it no matter what. As for fire im going with the "moths drawn to a flame" theory :) Something instinctive must be causing them to go towards fire, maybe the virus works better if the body is warm, thus forcing the mind to go towards fire.

4: Same as above, the virus must force them to pay attention to noise and sight, since thats the primary way of finding food for humans. We dont really use our other senses much tbh. "if it looks good it usually tastes good" theory. They might also retain some kind of memory, as suggested by many games and movies, which would help the virus determine the best way of finding "food", we can only assume its a very very complicated and effective virus.

5: Well, its possible the virus "knows" that feeding on infected flesh wont keep you alive. Basicly it could be "hardcoding" new instints into the brain, when its taking over control. It might need a special mix of vitamins and minerals only found in human flesh. We have to consider the fact that the virus evolves and learns aswell.

6: I would say survival combined with insane amount of agression. But again, do we actually get eaten or do they just beat us up like in 28 Days Later? We dont know, but it kinda looks like its beating and killing by brute force. Wild movements and hitting and scrathcing, They dont really bite tbh. (based on ingame animations) This also questions all of the above answers, as it could all be due to a rabies like virus causing huge amount of aggression and destructive behavior and maybe have nothing to do with survival.

A kinda "search and destroy" virus, which backfired on the military.

7: Right now, nothing seems to happen with them. This would support the idea that they are eating us to stay alive. We deff need some kind of "zombie decay" system, to figure out how they get nutrients, or if thats even a concern of theyres. It might be like 28 Days Later, where they die after an amount of time, because they dont feed.

Wow a long answer :) This is a big subject and theres so much to figure out tbh. But it all comes down to what kind of infected/zombie are we actually dealing with and what does the virus do? Only Rocket could answer that tbh. Hopefully he has time (doubt it lol), if not we can talk forever heh.

Perhaps someone from the dev team or a mod would know?

Edited March 4, 2013 by Byrgesen

[challe 7]

this is intressting, but i think the game going towards just focus on pvp :( then surviving and playing for survive and story would just disapear

Edited March 4, 2013 by challe

[thesodesa 99]

Now and then there are new threads concerning infections in general, „The Infection“, Zeds and their overall behaviour and how everything coheres.

It is always interesting to see how ppl fight over logic-issues on what a zombie should be capable of, what its natural behaviour should look like, how „The Infection“ has to affect living creatures etc..

There were some determining factors set by Dean and his devs:

• Zeds are not dead; they were infected by a virus (or bacteria?): „The Infection“
  
• Players are immune to „The Infection“ as well as animals
  
• Zeds have no inhuman powers (as they are still slowly dying humans?)
  

But still some questions remain unanswered:

1. Why do some hop, why do some crawl instead of running?

2. Why can’t they interact with objects in their environment (besides climbing ladders, opening doors)

3. Why do they get attracted by fireplaces and noise?

4. Why do they investigate thrown objects?

5. Why do they kill none-infected and not also each other, or at least animals?

6. Do Zeds kill because of a destructive urge or do they kill due to surival instincts?

7. Do Zeds seem to die from this deadly disease?

Do you think some changes would be useful or even necessary? Do you think some implementations should be reconsidered again? My idea is simply to create a solid and somewhat reasonable background-story to „The Infection“ and how it behaves and how it affects living creatures. (if there were some virologists/bacteriologists/meds..that’d be great)

edit: Maybe we can compile suggestions here and work them through

1. Crawlers could just have broken legs. The hoppers could however represent the more advanced stages of the disease vs walkers, who have just recently succumbed to the disease.

2. I'm not entirely sure they should be doing this. If the brain is decayed to the point where motor functions are hindered, operating a doorknob or a door handle could become an issue for them. Climbing ladders would also be rather challenging if motor control was reduced.

3,4,5,6: I'm advocating the idea that zeds should be able to go ballistic on anything that makes sudden movements (player/zed/animal running animation) or makes a lot of noise, even on each other, because the virus induces aggression in the infected individual and anything 'exciting' in the environment would cause a violent reaction . I think this would address any believability issues. Essentially the disease could be a type of rage inducing rabies. Check out the symptoms, virology, history and in other animals -parts of this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies. I think it fits rather nicely and is consistent with the fact that the virus seems to affect nerve and muscle cells.

7. I don't think it would be necessary to differentiate between dying from hunger and dying from the disease, at least not on the code level(extra work for dev team and possible bugginess). But yes, they should die at some point, because they are not magical rainbow-shitting unicorn zombies, but infected living individuals.

Edited March 4, 2013 by TheSodesa

[joe_mcentire 2074]

some very nice valuations and opinions so far. i really like the monkey although, apparently this model can not explain all issues properly. The best idea so far seems to be a very aggressive and mutated version of rabis. my problem is, that rabies kills you within a week, when first symptoms appear. so a zombie apocalypse as depicted in dayz would be somewhat unlikely. Well the mutation could lead to an extension of that period maybe several weeks or month...

but rabies would not explain 5) e.g.

So i quite like the idea of an hybrid half rabies, half "ape's disease" so far

[thesodesa 99]

some very nice valuations and opinions so far. i really like the monkey although, apparently this model can not explain all issues properly. The best idea so far seems to be a very aggressive and mutated version of rabis. my problem is, that rabies kills you within a week, when first symptoms appear. so a zombie apocalypse as depicted in dayz would be somewhat unlikely. Well the mutation could lead to an extension of that period maybe several weeks or month...

but rabies would not explain 5) e.g.

So i quite like the idea of an hybrid half rabies, half "ape's disease" so far

I didn't mean rabies literally, but it could be some rabies like fictional disease that doesn't kill you as quickly.

[thesodesa 99]

some very nice valuations and opinions so far. i really like the monkey although, apparently this model can not explain all issues properly. The best idea so far seems to be a very aggressive and mutated version of rabis. my problem is, that rabies kills you within a week, when first symptoms appear. so a zombie apocalypse as depicted in dayz would be somewhat unlikely. Well the mutation could lead to an extension of that period maybe several weeks or month...

but rabies would not explain 5) e.g.

So i quite like the idea of an hybrid half rabies, half "ape's disease" so far

One more thing.

I think the new kind of rabies would explain part 5, because if you look at the part of my earlier post where I discuss zombie aggro more carefully, you might notice that I mention that the zombies are made more aggressive towards everything and anything that makes threatening fast movements or noises, because of the disease.

The question is, do you find the idea of zeds being able to aggravate each other useless or ridiculous somehow, or could it become a core mechanic in how we deal with zeds that are able to run indoors (and they can in the SA, I'm scared already). For example a player could intentionally run in front of a zed to anger it, which would make it scream, and lure the other zeds in the area to attack it instead of the player. The player could then scavenge more freely, while the zeds are fighting it out.

Edited March 4, 2013 by TheSodesa

[Death_Dealer 3155]

But still some questions remain unanswered:

1. Why do some hop, why do some crawl instead of running?

Lack of intelligence; influenced from the environment.

2. Why can’t they interact with objects in their environment (besides climbing ladders, opening doors)

Lack of intelligence.

3. Why do they get attracted by fireplaces and noise?

Like animals other than humans, these things can easily distract them.

4. Why do they investigate thrown objects?

Curiosity killed the cat.

5. Why do they kill none-infected and not also each other, or at least animals?

Most likely because they don't like the rotting flesh of their siblings. See 6.

6. Do Zeds kill because of a destructive urge or do they kill due to survival instincts?

Destructive urge, as they seem to hit with their arms rather than going in and biting. They

do

eat dead or unconscious people, so maybe both.

7. Do Zeds seem to die from this deadly disease?

Currently, no.

Edit: These are just some of my ideas.

no hate pls

Edited March 4, 2013 by Willy Wonka

[Matricz11 0]

Its a disease where if a zombie hits you, you turn, cough, bleed attracts players cause of blood and zombies. Curable with Antibiotics.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

Edit: These are just some of my ideas.

no hate pls

we hate everyone! ;)

Edited March 5, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[byrgesen 1341]

The idea of zeds attacking zeds seems wrong to me tbh. I think its very possible we are dealing with the most advanced virus the world has ever seen, so we could talk about the fact that the virus can use your memories and uses them to target theyre rage. Maybe it knows by "instinct" that the other guys are infected, kinda like "the faculty" (even though thats parasites), and it would know not to harm others of the same kind.

Its abit out there, but i think its a better explanation then zombies just attacking uncontrolled towards everything. I mean, its very likely the virus takes actual control of the nerve centres in the brain, rather then just making them incredibly aggressive. Theres actually a fungus which is targeting ants and infesting the brain and makes the ant do things they dont normally do, to help the fungus reproduce and survive. Just imagine an engineered virus doing that.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

Well but let's not only focus on these points i brought up. these were examples i could think of but maybe there are more. My question is, which disease e.g. could reprogram your mind leading to an overpowering of instincts instead of reason (which would indeed explain some behaviour in terms of maybe stronger attraction to pheromones).

Or which different behaviour would you like to see, or at least makes sense, maybe due to diseases?

edit: nice fungus-idea.

double edit:

a wiki about 28 days later, with zeds explained in their universe

Edited March 5, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[Private Evans 1303]

Zeds attacking animals is a must have for me !

[byrgesen 1341]

Awsome articel mate, it really paints a good picture of the 28 Days Later infected :)

Well, do the virus have to be based on something we already know? It could possibly be a "new" designer virus, not seen the likes of before.

But in general i think the 28 days later virus is proberly the one closest to the DayZ virus. I really like how they explain the zombies disregard for food or any kind of nourisment. The virus simply makes them forget it :)

As for animals and z's, i dont really know. If the Z's were starting to attack animals, all the animals would have left tbh. They arent staying where they are hunted, thats basic prey instincts. For that to be believeble, we would need a complete mehcanic for animals, kinda like zombies now. So they need to check range and who is near them and what not, or else it would seem like the animals arent noticing they are being killed :) Which would be very bad hehe.

[Private Evans 1303]

As for animals and z's, i dont really know. If the Z's were starting to attack animals, all the animals would have left tbh. They arent staying where they are hunted, thats basic prey instincts. For that to be believeble, we would need a complete mehcanic for animals, kinda like zombies now. So they need to check range and who is near them and what not, or else it would seem like the animals arent noticing they are being killed Which would be very bad hehe.

One difference between 28 days later and DayZ is that our zeds seem to be cannibals ...and if they eat us... I guess they would eat animals too :D. I agree that animals would need better AI and animations, but I am sure this could lead to a lot of interesting scenarios.

[thesodesa 99]

As for animals and z's, i dont really know. If the Z's were starting to attack animals, all the animals would have left tbh. They arent staying where they are hunted, thats basic prey instincts. For that to be believeble, we would need a complete mehcanic for animals, kinda like zombies now. So they need to check range and who is near them and what not, or else it would seem like the animals arent noticing they are being killed :) Which would be very bad hehe.

This is something they are going to have to put into the game anyways if, like they said, they are implementing more realistic hunting as a survival mechanic.

[byrgesen 1341]

This is something they are going to have to put into the game anyways if, like they said, they are implementing more realistic hunting as a survival mechanic.

True, i hope they do. The current animals are to dumb lol.

As for our Z's eating us, i am not sure, tbh. We can only speculate about that, as the animations ingame is to poor to make any kind of judjement and Rocket has never said anything about them actually eating us.

If its infected and not zombies, then i dont see the point to make them eat us really. It doesnt fit the 28 Days Later infected style he is going for.

[Private Evans 1303]

What if our zeds still would feel hungry ( basic instinct) but of course have forgotten how to open a can (of muffins for example), how to use a microwave or how to harvest etc. In this scenario hunting, killing and eating the survivors would make sense. :P

[joe_mcentire 2074]

anyone remembers the mocap video, with dean raping the pillow/mat? He performed as he would bite chunks out of it. so i guess they eat us and/or animals as well

Edited March 5, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[byrgesen 1341]

anyone remembers the mocap video, with dean raping the pillow/mat? He performed as he would bite chunks out of it. so i guess they eat us and/or animals as well

Right, totally forgot that. That pretty much nails it :)

So they will eat us to stay alive, a basic survival instinct. Could it then be possible the virus knows it cant survive on tainted flesh? They should prob attack animals to then :)

[dallas 5195]

I don't know if they eat us or not, but going feral means you have to rely on nails and teeth as weapons.