A Way to Introduce a more Work-together environment?

[Steam_Power 42]

Hey guys, I have recently been thinking hard about how people would be more likely to work together and provide an interest in not shooting everyone you see.

This is going to be a MMO - Style, so why not incorporate skills? I'm not saying an experience system, but just when you create your character you can choose what skills you have that can either reflect your lifestyle or mental abilities or actual skills, kinda like a Sim 3 type of Character Creation.

Now I am not saying you NEED a mechanic to repair your car, or a solider/ guns enthusiast to be able to shoot well, but what if instead we had mechanics repair the car better, more efficient, returns more health to the car, can provide better upgrades in crafting, same with a gunsmith, or a medic or perhaps a soldier. so that way if you need a medic or a engineer to help you out then you can call on a favor... not to mention if you want their continued support you wouldn't exactly shoot them when you are done with them... You could of course.. But that's another choice you make. :)

Let me hear your thoughts!

Edited February 15, 2013 by Steam_Power

[OrLoK 16182]

Hello there

Before any flamers come in, I think that there is room for discussion on this as it's just down to how well implemented and unobtrusive a system it is.

I think "skillz" in the traditional RPG/MMO sense would not work in DAYZ.

Some out of the box thinking is required here.

Any ideas?

Rgds

L

Edited February 15, 2013 by orlok
grammar

[joe_mcentire 2073]

i have quite some ideas. there were some (i think 3 to 4) nice threads debating about a smooth and very subtle "skill" system which had more the intenion to make a dayz life worthwhile and keep grinding on an absolute minimum, as some positive effects would cause negative effects in other disciplines....and there was actually a polla t some point, which i remember to be around 60-55% to 40-45% in favor of the "opposing forces", so quite some ppl seem to like the idea which we tried to deliver.

for example: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/118211-skill-system-in-dayz/page__hl__skill

Edited February 15, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[Steam_Power 42]

i have quite some ideas. there were some (i think 3 to 4) nice threads debating about a smooth and very subtle "skill" system which had more the intenion to make a dayz life worthwhile and keep grinding on an absolute minimum, as some positive effects would cause negative effects in other disciplines....and there was actually a polla t some point, which i remember to be around 60-55% to 40-45% in favor of the "opposing forces", so quite some ppl seem to like the idea which we tried to deliver.

for example: http://dayzmod.com/f...page__hl__skill

Yes, I guess you could say thats what I was thinking of, for sure this game is not a Gain XP and grind game.

[Raider (DayZ) 47]

Yeah i guess choosing a 'background' before you start a character would be cool, like a mechanic, ex cop, nurse etc. I think skills like mechanics make cars more efficient is kinda overkill, would force people to team up, maybe mechanic can fixs cars in 20sec instead of 40sec? little changes like that, medics can administrate bloog bags in less time, a kind of 'class' system like rpg's.

[Steam_Power 42]

Yeah i guess choosing a 'background' before you start a character would be cool, like a mechanic, ex cop, nurse etc. I think skills like mechanics make cars more efficient is kinda overkill, would force people to team up, maybe mechanic can fixs cars in 20sec instead of 40sec? little changes like that, medics can administrate bloog bags in less time, a kind of 'class' system like rpg's.

Yes, I would agree, but if I was a computer nerd I couldnt repair a car nearly as fast, and the quality would not be as good either I dont think. But obviously I presented this idea as a thought, I hadn't ironed out the ideas, just wanted to put those "perks" out to jog peoples minds!

Edited February 15, 2013 by Steam_Power

[OrLoK 16182]

Hello there

Be careful not to go down the stereotype route.

ie Nerd = haxx0r/weak/glasses

Mechanic=tough/sexy/thick

That's entirely a route which wont lend itself to dayz imho. Think more obliquely.

Rgds

LoK

[Steam_Power 42]

Hello there

Be careful not to go down the stereotype route.

ie Nerd = haxx0r/weak/glasses

Mechanic=tough/sexy/thick

That's entirely a route which wont lend itself to dayz imho. Think more obliquely.

Rgds

LoK

It was an example I was trying to provide, I guess you could say an experienced computer user may know their way around how to hot wire a car better, but not to say that would have to be a near, if they were an athlete and computer tech during their younger days, no reason why they couldnt have a stronger sprint speed/distance and be able to high jack a car as well. Mix and match, after all it is dayz, and it is your story.

I feel that you could pick anything out of a list that you would like, such as engineer for defenses with mechanic gives a bonus to both skills, while you could also pick, medic and engineer and it would give you the ability to craft medical machines or medic and mechanic you can make a hospital with wheels.. If you had a friend who was a medic engi they could craft stuff to go inside the ambulance. You can easily get creative and make it specific to how you want to be.

[indominator 95]

teh bad thing is that arma 2 is made for power gamers, people with skills to hit button and have better reflexes, for a better environment for team creation we need less focus on pvp, it must be in the game, not removed, but however it is implemented there will always be griefers, bandit or not, so i would go with a system not on humanity neither on skill, but reputation,

so lets say you play alone, and you survive for lots of time, you gain some reputation, it is not measured by a number, but a percentage, like 54% explorer, 12%socializer, 3% KOS, 21% medic, if you spent time with other people you would gain the socializing trait, it should have a percentage maximum, like 40% and the more you play with other people it would keep growing until 40% and you would receive its benefits according to the percentage,

some activities like killing innocents would diminish it, this way people inside clans could have the benefits, the benefit could be +12(%)*0.25 armor. for the other ones would have benefits to help

but if you are a murderer maybe the benefit could be how well food replenishes your life like +3(%)*0.25 per food, so you could go back faster to the fight according to your KOS % that you got for killing people, it would go down with time

this is an idea to be developed, you would already start with 100 with percentage caps already distributed, and how you played the game would change those percentages changing the benefits that would fit your game style.

i write confusing, but plox read it, this system isnt level grinding but adapts for each player so if you want to focus on something like mechanic you can and will get advantages, but you will lose some benefits, this is supposed to give a helping hand to other players wich are terrible at shooting(like me) and help people get encouraged to focus on their desired activies and if clothings gave benefits for each activity people would be able to spot an engineer and know that he is not a shooter, so easy kill or maybe a nice addition to the group.

Edited February 15, 2013 by indominator

[Steam_Power 42]

Beans for admitting you are a difficult read, haha, Go back and edit that please. Read it outloud to yourself, I want to know what you are saying, all I gather is that the more you spend time doing something the more bonus of that event you get from it? I like that idea, but we arent all fresh spawns from the DayZ gods, I feel as if we all have a back story, and maybe the two could be immersed, perhaps you start with some of these basic traits, and they grow as you spend those %'s doing such tasks. OR deminish and get replaced over time if you ignore them?

Edited February 15, 2013 by Steam_Power

[indominator 95]

Beans for admitting you are a difficult read, haha, Go back and edit that please. Read it outloud to yourself, I want to know what you are saying, all I gather is that the more you spend time doing something the more bonus of that event you get from it? I like that idea, but we arent all fresh spawns from the DayZ gods, I feel as if we all have a back story, and maybe the two could be immersed, perhaps you start with some of these basic traits, and they grow as you spend those %'s doing such tasks. OR deminish and get replaced over time if you ignore them?

Yeah man, something like that

all actions before implementation would have to be forgotten because for mapping player interactions would need some new variables, code, and a lot of work, which would all be server side, it would be a heavy thing to calculate, maybe. Player intangibles(interactions) are difficult for a computer to understand, but if we try to understand them from their "jobs" we can try to understand what they are trying to aim at, maybe in respawn you could start with similar numbers that you want to get to, this would also help map players desires, and tweak the code afterwards with the new data.

[Steam_Power 42]

Regardless, this could be a way to go, I would like to see something to immerse people into the game, no wanting to just kill people because they know they will respawn anyways. I personally hate killing other players unless they are bandits, I just like to help and work together.

[enforcer1975 1111]

There would be a lot of ex super elite undercover universal soldiers running around if you could choose a background...

[CreepySalad 108]

I wouldn't like this.

It's been suggested plenty of times, but it gets rid of the feel.

If this is to be added, I think it should be random.

It'd be nice.

But the thought of a GUI popping up on your screen and saying "CHOOSE AN OCCUPATION" is a no-no.

I still think we should have interactive things.

So that way player knowledge would = character knowledge.

First post I made here.

[HarrySaches 5]

would be nice if as you did things, you increased in ability, the more repairs you make to a car the higher your ability gets in making future repairs. Same with medical and killing zombies, the more zombies you kill, the better at it you get.

ETC, I do agree currently no reason to work with other people exist, it's just kill this guy becuase he has a Gun you think looks cool... screw it, just kill that dude anyway, just because of the LOL's of killing him. You are a pretty much able to last on your own, outside of needing bloodbags which if you are pretty decent at hunting and hiding a camp somewhere you don't even need bloodbags. Just cook up that food and eat it.

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

would be nice if as you did things, you increased in ability, the more repairs you make to a car the higher your ability gets in making future repairs. Same with medical and killing zombies, the more zombies you kill, the better at it you get.

Something along these lines. There should be no 'background' or selection thing at start. It should be blank slate for everyone when they start (I kinda think/wish 'skills' would be persistent after death but can see why they wouldn't want to have it like that) The skills would be 'hidden', you wouldn't know you leveled something up, no bright circle of lights and bells ringing. The only way you might notice a 'level up' would be say you start a fire faster, bandage yourself or others more quickly, change a tire faster, ect.

If 'skills' are persistent maybe have it so things 'unlock', for example, a brand new player, if given a toolbox, parts, and a broken helicopter, would only be skilled enough to replace the glass, or only be able to partly repair things like the main rotor to maybe yellow condition. (A player could replace tires and glass at first, and only partly be able to repair the hull/door/however the system is, and the more and more they do repairs ((even ineffective repairs)) they more effective their repairs become and the faster they do them.

If it were up to me the skills would be: Medical (Perform actions faster, unlock more complex maneuvers (setting bones, splinting legs, blood transfusions, able to give 'proper' dosages for meds), Vehicle Maintenance (Perform repairs faster, repairs more effective), Weapon Maintenance (able to clean weapons faster, do repairs with less parts/jury rigging, repairs last longer, less jamming, clearing jams faster), Construction (perform some actions faster, able to do more complex constructions/building repairs, use less materials ((for certain things))), Melee/Strength (melee attacks hit harder/faster), Survivalist (able to gut animals quicker, yield a little more meat, if they add things like hides and skins as items, able to get more/better quality animal resources, able to start fires without matches ((at some point)) able to build traps, ect), Crafting (able to craft things faster/less resources, would NOT unlock more recipes ((I believe Rocket wanted players to be able to craft anything as soon as they discovered it, don't have a link to back it up though)). I don't think weapons handling/shooting/accuracy should be a 'level-able' skill (I could be convinced otherwise, but don't think that you should automatically get some kind of accuracy boost or magically be able to do more damage with the same gun just because you shoot a lot). Maybe if they want to be a little more realistic have a 'Fitness' skill to do with running (not saying I want this), the more you run/sprint the longer you can go without being winded (for example)

*Edit* Forgot Survivalist and Crafting skills, see above

Edited February 17, 2013 by BigMike

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I understand the thought behind the suggestion, but I feel that cooperation can be better encouraged by use of equipment.

Skills and abilities don't give anyone the freedom to be equally effective in multiple areas if they choose to swap professions.

Any evolution in skill granted by repetition of a task is only going to throw advantages to people who are willing to "grind" levels or "farm" xp.

It's already happening with people exploiting blood-bags and makarov bullets to get hero skins.

KC Pr3lLoX's suggestion had a good way of potentially encouraging teamwork and general player interaction in his topic here. Even though I don't think that was the intention.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

I tried to tackle the teamwork issue on a long time ago.. http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/5922-the-team-work-philosophy-shoot-on-sight-group-play/ being the results. This was so long ago though, I could update the shit out of it now.

I still stand with it, but I do think there are many more ways to promote teamwork. i.e. sickness.. Though I don't want the game to be so hard that to survive, you have to team up.

Lonewolf it's a justified play style and shouldn't shun out.

[BSB Jimmy 360]

Here are some classes i thought of and their uses

Medic- Can use epi pens instantly to revive a player, give blood bags and bandages slightly quicker.

Survivalist- gets more meat from gutted animals and more resistant to disease.

Engineer- can repair any part of a car (not glass or tyres) to yellow health using scrap metal.

Scavenger- more inventory slots (not sure how many)

Sniper- steady scopes after sprinting faster

Bodybuilder- does more damage with a crowbar and hatchet and can throw things further

Spotter- has the ability to estimate ranges

soldier- quicker moving from prone to standing or standing to prone.

Free runner- can not break legs or take damage from a low drop.

[joe_mcentire 2073]

well i don't think this will ever be implemented - classes is something which is, i guess, most unlikely to happen. i really would like you to invite you to read the thread i posted before (*edit: as well as its successor), which tries to provide a subtle approach to the whole thing as well, i also tried to provide some sort of Gedankenexperiment back then.

Edited February 22, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[colekern 1364]

Personally, I'd like the game to be more based on player skill. If we had to figure out what was wrong with a car ourselves instead of just looking at a little meter, or had to figure out how to fix up an injured person, then there would be no need for in-game "skills". By giving players worth, we give characters worth.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

Personally, I'd like the game to be more based on player skill. If we had to figure out what was wrong with a car ourselves instead of just looking at a little meter, or had to figure out how to fix up an injured person, then there would be no need for in-game "skills". By giving players worth, we give characters worth.

I agree with this, in fact I've made several posts like it.

I think what should happen in DayZ, regarding skills, is making complex tasks complex. Make repairing a car difficult, having to place a part in a specific place, or you can ruin the part or damage the car. When you skin an animal, you manually use the knife, moving the cursor to direct the knife. If you mess up, you lose some meat. The player would improve at complex tasks, not the avatar. I think this kind of system would be more natural for tasks that are difficult in real life.

Things like sprinting, though, may be better to improve over time. Nothing that the player can look at on a spreadsheet, and nothing substantial. The idea that everyone is completely equal is nice, but ultimately unrealistic and perhaps unnecessary. The avatar's physical strength could be improved over time, but only very slowly. I don't see anything wrong with that.

If we make tasks difficult enough, people will begin to specialize in certain tasks and become more valuable as part of a team.

[CreepySalad 108]

Personally, I'd like the game to be more based on player skill. If we had to figure out what was wrong with a car ourselves instead of just looking at a little meter, or had to figure out how to fix up an injured person, then there would be no need for in-game "skills". By giving players worth, we give characters worth.

I made a post like that a while back.

My first post on here me thinks.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/119543-player-skill-this-is-not-a-leveling-thread/page__st__20

[Kaczor 15]

When i read when someone says that your ingame skill should base entirely on your real life knowladge it make me burst out laughing. So if you want to repair car you should find UAZ manual on the net, next look for the chapter "engine problems" and then try to solve it ingame? Would be great to repair engine like in surgeon simulator 2013 :D. I could gave couple more examples but you get the idea ; ).

In my opinion skills are something that should be strongly considered by Rocket and the team.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Kaczor

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

A simulator which simulates things? What a joke.

EDIT:

DayZ made a name for itself by doing things in a way that defies expectations.

If Rocket suddenly decided that skills, XP points and level-ups are the way to go, I'd check the back of his neck for an "off" switch, because he's been abducted by aliens and replaced with a robot.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Chabowski