Skill System in DayZ?

[dallas 5195]

Over the months, I've changed my mind on the subject.

I've gone from wanting bandits to be as terrified of death as I were, because I figured, they would then be more reluctant to participate in risky behavior. I knew that any experienced and knowledgeable survivor can easily overcome death, so I wanted people to lose more than their gear when they died. I wanted bonuses for making an effort to survive for days and weeks, but I could not find a solution that would fit in to DayZ or ArmA's universe. I realized I didn't want the game to turn into Skyrim, where people are closing doors or chopping wood eigh hours a day to get an advantage, instead of simply playing the game.

Now I think it's important that the game it hard and unforgiving, but that there has to be room for both the totally reckless and the overly cautious. The more experience you have, the easier you'll recover from death and adversity. No matter what Rocket throws at us, we will conquer and master these mechanics and because we will, we'll continue to need to unpredictable element of people, who are willing to risk their own life to take yours. If we punish these people(what you mean these people?!) into submission, they will either stop being bandits or stop playing and as much as DayZ needs zombies, explosive diarrhea and chicken pox, the one thing it can't do without is banditry.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Dallas

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

no offence, but i'm so sick of seeing post about skills, not only that they are repost... but the Dev have said countless times that there will be no skills.

I wish the forum admins would lock down these 'skill' post.

[victusmortuus 1074]

I didn't even read your OP to know I don't want skills man. I know that's a pretty shitty thing to do but the game just does not need it.

[Justitia 17]

Skill/perk system: NO, NO, NO. It ruins the aspect of all people being equal and only their equipment/knowledge/aim mattering- the essence of DayZ with scavenging hunting/survival...almost desperate. No unfair skills that rise you for time invested into DayZ. What's next - unlockable weapons? NO! With any legitimate game, you learn the techniques, immediately available, and practice to use them well, not earn the right to USE them with forced mechanics, typically there to only captivate users' time or offer 'advantages' for loyalty/play-time.

DayZ is not an RPG, in my opinion, and certain skills for DayZ can be considered 'skills' (e.g. flying well, navigation, direction with stars/sun/moon, ideal spots for looting, sneaking), albeit not reaffirmed with a nice message or cute skill tree, even offering these /automatically/ as you 'progressed'. The way players are differentiated is their teamwork, knowledge, and equipment - very subtle to observe directly but evidently significantly. This is the essence of a true game opposed to contrived advantages: a framework to improve these three facets and a fair playing field.

[wooplin 4]

please don't let dayz turn in to a play2win mmo

keep it a zombie survival game

[enforcer1975 1111]

Just because you didn't get it for WarZ, don't think that DayZ will try cover that niché.

Totally against this idea. It's not Skyrim. Everyone's meant to be on the same in-game standing. The only skill to the game is the decisions you make, not your characters stats.

Although Skyrim has a good method with learning by doing i don't want it in DayZ at all, at least you can call the Skyrim system revolutionary compared to other skill trees in other games where you level up and only choose skills the munchkin way.

A player can make a difference on how the game flows for him/her just by using his/her braincells. A dimwit ( no offense ) can never get that far and they usually are those people who rely on skillsets to get an advantage on other players in games and still fail...In ArmA it's learn the ropes or go get the darwin award.

[Average Pegasus 646]

Skill are good for game if there are no perma-death. (aka :Warzzz)

but in a perma-death game. I would be fucking mad if my caracther, with a shit tone of skill, die form a glitch/ bad driving (i suck driving in arma lol) or a bandit up a hill. A lot of people you get mad and a lot of player would KoS because they know people would became mad by the fact of losing skill...

[psstloaf 17]

skills define who a person is and the way they play,

lets use breaking into a house as an example because its something you maybe able to do in future dayz

Picking Locks -Intelligence+ maybe!

Kicking the Door in -Strength+ ???

Climbing in a Upstairs Window -Agility+

the more you do something the better you get at it!

Wouldn't it be cool if you were in a gang of 3 with each of these attributes. mr climb in the windows would be the sort of gangs scout, the intelligence chap could be the medic, covert ops, builder and so on. and as for the strength guy well we all know what hes good for ... Gang mule ;)

[pazur13 27]

Skills in DayZ? Horrible idea. You gain real skill over time, would do you like to get killed by a not skilled noob who just maxed fighting skills? Players are either skilled or skill-less. No need to script it.

[slivniku@gmail.com 93]

I can already imagine it - spawn on the coast, find hatchet, cut wood for 5 hours to max out wood chopping, killed by bandit, do it again? kinda lame really;

no no no no

@dallas - pls stop writing good posts, I'm outta beans!

[GodOfGrain 191]

Most of you guys on the 2nd page missed my point :)

Edited January 16, 2013 by GodOfGrain

[psstloaf 17]

I can already imagine it - spawn on the coast, find hatchet, cut wood for 5 hours to max out wood chopping, killed by bandit, do it again? kinda lame really;

no no no no

@dallas - pls stop writing good posts, I'm outta beans!

cant you use your natural progressive non skill, skills to chop your morning wood without being detected ? :D

Edited January 16, 2013 by psstloaf

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

I think what should happen in DayZ, regarding skills, is making complex tasks complex. Make repairing a car difficult, having to place a part in a specific place, or you can ruin the part or damage the car. When you skin an animal, you manually use the knife, moving the cursor to direct the knife. If you mess up, you lose some meat. The player would improve at complex tasks, not the avatar. I think this kind of system would be more natural for tasks that are difficult in real life.

Things like sprinting, though, may be better to improve over time. Nothing that the player can look at on a spreadsheet, and nothing substantial. The idea that everyone is completely equal is nice, but ultimately unrealistic and perhaps unnecessary. The avatar's physical strength could be improved over time, but only very slowly. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[beastoverlord 574]

Why do people keep bringing these up? Very few people like these. This is a SANDBOX game, not one with a crap-ton of rules. I want to be able to do whatever whenever.

[dragonkatol 135]

Skills system doesn't fit or will ever fit DayZ. In games, skills/stats/class predetermine your role as a player but DayZ destroyed that shit. If you wanna play a "role" you really have to act and play like it. I've been a medic/healer in a lot of games that has a medic/healer class in it, and all i have to do is click on some skills and click on the player who i want to heal and bam! alive and well. It's bland, boring and it became a chore. It's all the same whichever "mechanic" you put it. DayZ made me felt like a medic, not a button smashing healer or a one click stealth extraordinaire if i played as a bandit/rogue/assassin. All i know by playing almost hundreds of hours into DayZ, My skill set would be:

lvl 5 Situational Awareness - Able to detect if environment is hostile or not.

lvl 3 Land Navigation - Has knowledge to navigate on land using various methods

lvl 4 Communication skill - Decrease confusion while communicating to teammates

etc. etc.

[joe_mcentire 2073]

but i tried to follow the line of developing certain skills over time. Let's call them microskills

my idea shall be, that as long as you stay alive and based on the gathered data behind your player one can develop from time to time smaller skills.

you often go for a hunt?

maybe be able to gather +1 meat from a cows; be able to skin rabbits; able to gather herbals (if implemented); crafted baits lure more animals; new food resource - dogs

you take out quite some zombies?

be able to "absorb" zombie odor; risk of infections is slightly decreased; zombies drop minor consumables eventually...

Now let's say there is some sort of randomness behind this whole system, so there is no ladder which says first skill A, then skill B is unlocked.

Let's just say, you get a little note like "a tiny step to better comprehend nature", therefore you'll notice "oh ok.. there's something going on", but that's just my single hint I get. i'll have to check out by myself what mircoskill i've just gained. Meaning i'll have to act more and more again with nature if i'm eager to find out which capability is lurking inside me.

So there's a process in revalueting a dayz-life. If you get killed every little skill you've gathered over time, is also gone. In my opinion it would make quite a remarkable impact with respect to the long-term motivation. You'll have to get to know not only your actual but also your "artificial" gained strengths.

i've grown a custom to those ideas...

[HKilf 15]

I agree with Clumzy on the point that tasks in DayZ should be more complex than a click of a button. Also, knowledge about which food is edible and not and the act of cooking your water should really impact the gameplay IMO. It would be sick if many actions were like mini-games (like actually skinning a animal and possibly failing, lighting a fire etc.) but that might be difficult to implement and/or might take a long time.

I also have another idea which may not be perfect but it could solve some of the problems mentioned.

What if your character was randomized (age, sex, background etc.) and you could spawn with a note or a little picture/item already in your inventory. This note could be a letter from someone you knew, a picture drawn by your toddler or something else personal (something that the character does not share with other people). This would not necessarily affect the gameplay (cosmetics maybe) but could add to a character that is more relatable and it could actually make you feel something when they die... making each death like an end to a journey. You might be able to detect some of these details on another player too. Imagine stumbling upon a body and not only think about the loot, maybe find a teddybear in their hands which was their memory of their kid.

[Evilution 66]

No! a skill system does not fit with DayZ at all imo, leave the silly skill systems and stuff to casual games like ZombiU.

[TIC 1050]

+1.

This would be the great introduction to the Standalone as an MMO. Skills shouldn't be a big influence with the game but be something subtle in surviving.

[Talibambi 119]

Dont give a skill system with perks. But I wouldnt mind a more involved skill system involving you using your actual experience to do stuff. Need to pick a lock on a door? You dont just click "pick lock". You "pick lock" and then have to manually pick the damn lock. You wanna "break down the door"? Then break out the axe or shoot the lock several times. You want to get some wood from a tree? You have to chop the damn tree down yourself.

Example. Picking locks of doors. Same principle as skyrim I guess. You arnt given any clues on the lock. You just have to "feel" your way. With different locks having different "feels" since they have different mechanisms. Point being that if you are busy unlocking a door you shouldnt be able to pay too much attention to whats going on around you. Perhaps you can look around - but then you cant pick the lock while doing so.

Oh you need to get into this house? Get Jimmy to do it. He kicks ass at openning locks. Instead of everyone just being able to click "open lock" and it do it manually. This system wouldnt give you skills or let you unlock anything. You would have to teach yourself how to do these tasks and you should be vulnerable while doing them.

Point is that all these would be personal skills and not something "gifted" to you after X event. Having stuff as a "level up you learned X" would be quite silly.

I get that this kinda stuff would be hard to impliment - but it would be "something" for someone to spend their time on. (make this stuff hard too!)

Edited January 17, 2013 by Talibambi

[hoik 415]

I understand that skills are a contentious subject in DayZ, but at the same time I don't understand the way some people freak out when it's mentioned :P .

Here is something interesting to think about. What if there were a skill system (using this term loosly :) ) for disease when it is implemented in DayZ? It would work by surviving various illnesses and your immune system making antibodies. So in a realistic way you're character will "progress" in how well his/her immune system is working, which could be quite a advantage. And then on death, these immunities will be reset!

From what I've read I think this is the direction that diseases will take in DayZ.

While I understand that players are supposed to bring their own skill set to the game, and "level up" by actually learning different techniques of survival - I find it hard to reconcile this with the fact that it is a game and we can respawn/reincarnate. So I ask, is learning a core game mechanic of DayZ? If it is, I feel there should be some virtual representation of it in the game - just like communicating, shooting, killing, hunting etc. are represented virtually. That doesn't mean I want to see you're bog standard RPG system, but something to make the character feel more alive rather than some blank proxy.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Hoik

[dragonkatol 135]

You as yourself progress, not your character. YOU can pilot a helicopter, not your character. YOU can aim properly, not your character. YOU can navigate yourself through stars and lakes, not your character. Your character is just your mannequin in the world of DayZ.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Exactly. It is you as the player that gains the skills needed. It doesn't need a game mechanic that would encourage grinding. If you want to be a good sniper, grab yourself a rifle and go practice. Want to be a medic, go get yourself loads of meds and then set yourself up with whatever you need, it's not easy. No need for a game mechanic, we just need a deeply layered game filled with content that rewards us (not literally) when we take the time to learn a certain aspect of it well, navigation is a good example.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Fraggle

[GodOfGrain 191]

The problem today - we don't care if we die or not after 2 months of playing. Some people might do, but the game design says: It does not matter. A skill system has one unique advantage over progression by items: It is bound to the character.

This "no reason to stay alive" is indeed a problem. It allows players to do their "kill-kill-die-get stuff back- kill- kill" thing

That's the prime area a skill system could adress.

No need for a game mechanic, we just need a deeply layered game filled with content that rewards us (not literally) when we take the time to learn a certain aspect of it well, navigation is a good example.

As you said, skills as an element of long term motivation are not necessary, there are alternative ways to keep us occupied.

I still like it though, I can imagine myself with long beard... a bit slow in some things from the multiple gun wounds I suffered in my life...

but I get my fire up in heavy rain, and gut any animal in seconds. Yea, that's a battle-hardened survivor...

And I'd hate to see him go :D

Edited January 17, 2013 by GodOfGrain

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

You won't be running back to collect your gear from your rotting corpse in the SA once the full disease mechanic is introduced, especially if it was a disease/infection/virus that killed you. Neither will your friends unless they are tooled up with the correct antibiotics. Being a healthy player with gear will indeed have you rage quitting when you die.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Fraggle