v175 beta: meat issues [solved] [old]

[BEASTWolverine 16]

Just learn to shoot them in the face... Before you didnt need to shoot the zombies now you do that is the difference if your lone wolfing alot pull out the axe for close quarters zombie survival... Ammo is not so sparce that you can't kill some zombies with the fire arm imagine real life scenarios you wouldn't just be able to run away from them you would need to shoot em. Suck it up and adapt =D -Jeremiah-

[noreaster 41]

I would bet money that at least 70% of the Kill on sight mentality is perpetrated by squad oriented players.

[BEASTWolverine 16]

I would bet money that at least 70% of the Kill on sight mentality is perpetrated by squad oriented players.

Makes sense... They have more security in number and tactics so the game becomes easier for them when they get the gear/base they need what else to do but go out and kill bandits... Problem is anyone that is armed with a longarm is a bandit in most peoples eyes... Survival of the fittest can't expect people to be nice but the fucked up thing is when someone promises you peace then shoots ya in the back of the head later =D its all part of the dayz experience.

[SkrooLoose (DayZ) 143]

I would bet money that at least 70% of the Kill on sight mentality is perpetrated by squad oriented players.

I would bet money that the KoS mentality was generated by the over abundance of YT vids and the over saturation of DayZ by ADD youngsters who have been raised on too many kill/die/respawn fps's.

[BEASTWolverine 16]

Or... People get bored after achieving the survival goals... ^ conspiracy theorists much?

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

I think people are forgetting a very KEY concept.

While we all want the game to be as realistic as possible, there has to be some unrealistic features because this is a game. Playing a game is not real life and therefore you cannot have everything be so realistic that it takes a way from the purpose of playing a game. Yes, there should be challenges, and certain things should not be easy. But if you go overboard with "everything you do should be realistic" then you risk driving the player base away because the game becomes unplayable as a game.

Yes, it is unrealistic to eat 10 steaks in a row to get back to full health. But it is just as unrealistic that anyone that finds a toolbox is suddenly a certified mechanic on every aspect of machinery and engineering. What percentage of the people in a country is going to be able to know how to fix a helicopter to be able to fly? It is unrealistic to just be able to fix a chopper to fly with no advanced training. Much less be able to repair any engine when it may require compression checking, new valve springs, or maybe even a new timing belt.

It is also unrealistic to be able to take morphine to fix a broken bone. In real life all that does is take the pain away, but it does not solve the problem. So if we want the game to be as realistic as possible, why aren't people crying about morphine being able to fix broken legs. If you want realistic then a broken bone would take weeks to heal properly, and then a few more weeks to be able to do anything with it. Are we all suddenly doctors in game when we take a morphine that we can jump up from a broken leg and run full speed cross country? I think not.

Fact is, certain things have to be unrealistic in this GAME so that the game is playable. Just because you want something to be as realistic as possible, and it sounds good on paper, does not mean it is going to be good in practice.

[xwhitemousex 67]

I play alone quite a bit.

I have no problems finding a hatchet, tincans, box of matches (usually the most tricky one), hunting knife and water bottles.

Once you have those items you "won" the game and no longer need to visit the cities. You can just hang out in the woods and kill boars for bacon and live happily ever after.

I started as a fresh spawn on 3 different servers all running 1.7.5.1 and on all 3 servers it took me no more than 2-3 hours to be fully geared (with the above).

I have no need for a car when I play alone.. not picking anyone up nor do I need to travel fast between locations such as a camp site or a city. I definitely don't need a helo... and I actually find my fun with helo's in Take on Helicopters which is alot more rewarding than flying around in DayZ and waiting to be shot out of the sky by everyone with a rifle.

Honestly, if you can't survive just because of this patch... maybe you're not supposed to survive...

Survival of the fittest and all that.

[xwhitemousex 67]

It is also unrealistic to be able to take morphine to fix a broken bone. In real life all that does is take the pain away, but it does not solve the problem. So if we want the game to be as realistic as possible, why aren't people crying about morphine being able to fix broken legs. If you want realistic then a broken bone would take weeks to heal properly, and then a few more weeks to be able to do anything with it. Are we all suddenly doctors in game when we take a morphine that we can jump up from a broken leg and run full speed cross country? I think not.

Fact is, certain things have to be unrealistic in this GAME so that the game is playable. Just because you want something to be as realistic as possible, and it sounds good on paper, does not mean it is going to be good in practice.

Everyone knows that if broken bones meant you were limping around for weeks and months, then anyone with a broken bone would suicide and start over :)

[p4triot 207]

I think people are forgetting a very KEY concept.

While we all want the game to be as realistic as possible, there has to be some unrealistic features because this is a game. Playing a game is not real life and therefore you cannot have everything be so realistic that it takes a way from the purpose of playing a game. Yes, there should be challenges, and certain things should not be easy. But if you go overboard with "everything you do should be realistic" then you risk driving the player base away because the game becomes unplayable as a game.

Yes, it is unrealistic to eat 10 steaks in a row to get back to full health. But it is just as unrealistic that anyone that finds a toolbox is suddenly a certified mechanic on every aspect of machinery and engineering. What percentage of the people in a country is going to be able to know how to fix a helicopter to be able to fly? It is unrealistic to just be able to fix a chopper to fly with no advanced training. Much less be able to repair any engine when it may require compression checking, new valve springs, or maybe even a new timing belt.

It is also unrealistic to be able to take morphine to fix a broken bone. In real life all that does is take the pain away, but it does not solve the problem. So if we want the game to be as realistic as possible, why aren't people crying about morphine being able to fix broken legs. If you want realistic then a broken bone would take weeks to heal properly, and then a few more weeks to be able to do anything with it. Are we all suddenly doctors in game when we take a morphine that we can jump up from a broken leg and run full speed cross country? I think not.

Fact is, certain things have to be unrealistic in this GAME so that the game is playable. Just because you want something to be as realistic as possible, and it sounds good on paper, does not mean it is going to be good in practice.

It is not realism for the sake of realism. Is a matter of balance aspect using realism as a base. In example, In the terms of the game, we may wanna get campers to kill less players huh? well, we put ourselves one rule for that: it should be done in a realistic way. This means, are we gonna put a magic force forbbiding snipers to kill a player? nope, cuz that would be unrealistic. What we do instead is adding wind affecting the bullet trajectory, difficulting the sniping then reducing the number of players killed by a camper. We're using realism as a balance tool.

Eating 10 steaks in a row facilitates too much healing oneself, so in order of balance the game and achieve the intended difficulty, we use realism as balance adding a timer after every steak, because in real life you wouldn't be able to eat 10 steaks in a row. However, adding realism to the cure of a broken bone would unbalance the game adding too much difficulty, so we don't use realism on this one.

This is the way realism is used in this game.

[BEASTWolverine 16]

I think people are forgetting a very KEY concept.

While we all want the game to be as realistic as possible, there has to be some unrealistic features because this is a game. Playing a game is not real life and therefore you cannot have everything be so realistic that it takes a way from the purpose of playing a game. Yes, there should be challenges, and certain things should not be easy. But if you go overboard with "everything you do should be realistic" then you risk driving the player base away because the game becomes unplayable as a game.

Yes, it is unrealistic to eat 10 steaks in a row to get back to full health. But it is just as unrealistic that anyone that finds a toolbox is suddenly a certified mechanic on every aspect of machinery and engineering. What percentage of the people in a country is going to be able to know how to fix a helicopter to be able to fly? It is unrealistic to just be able to fix a chopper to fly with no advanced training. Much less be able to repair any engine when it may require compression checking, new valve springs, or maybe even a new timing belt.

It is also unrealistic to be able to take morphine to fix a broken bone. In real life all that does is take the pain away, but it does not solve the problem. So if we want the game to be as realistic as possible, why aren't people crying about morphine being able to fix broken legs. If you want realistic then a broken bone would take weeks to heal properly, and then a few more weeks to be able to do anything with it. Are we all suddenly doctors in game when we take a morphine that we can jump up from a broken leg and run full speed cross country? I think not.

Fact is, certain things have to be unrealistic in this GAME so that the game is playable. Just because you want something to be as realistic as possible, and it sounds good on paper, does not mean it is going to be good in practice.

Right as you have mentioned there are a lot of things in the game that aren't realistic... Making the zombies harder doesn't make dayz unplayable... It makes it more playable... It's not even that hard right now it's just a different situation plus there are always gonna be people who don't like it and people who do like it but the dayz playerbase will only grow from making zombies and gameplay more realistic... -Jeremiah-

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

Everyone knows that if broken bones meant you were limping around for weeks and months, then anyone with a broken bone would suicide and start over :)

Just because one gets a broken leg in the game does not mean that person has to suicide. I play with a small group, and while we're not always in the same location we are always ready to go help each other at a moments notice if needed. I run around with 2 morphine, 2 painkillers, and if available, 1 blood bag. Even when I don't have morphine the situations determine if it is better to suicide or wait for help.

But you proved my point. If a broken bone were to take weeks, or even days in game time, to heal properly for your toon to run again, then you have added a dynamic that impacts the game negatively. With as easily as it is to break bones in this game that would put people off.

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

It is not realism for the sake of realism. Is a matter of balance aspect using realism as a base. In example, In the terms of the game, we may wanna get campers to kill less players huh? well, we put ourselves one rule for that: it should be done in a realistic way. This means, are we gonna put a magic force forbbiding snipers to kill a player? nope, cuz that would be unrealistic. What we do instead is adding wind affecting the bullet trajectory, difficulting the sniping then reducing the number of players killed by a camper. We're using realism as a balance tool.

This would be an example of a good realistic dynamic that would impact the challenge of the game. Adding wind does in no way change the playability of the game.

Eating 10 steaks in a row facilitates too much healing oneself, so in order of balance the game and achieve the intended difficulty, we use realism as balance adding a timer after every steak, because in real life you wouldn't be able to eat 10 steaks in a row. However, adding realism to the cure of a broken bone would unbalance the game adding too much difficulty, so we don't use realism on this one.

I am not against the timer for eating per se. But there must be another means besides a blood bag to regenerate blood. This is a game play dynamic that would introduce a negative impact to the game. Not saying it would help with surviving, but there needs to be a means for a player to be able to get their blood back up over a reasonable amount of time then having to wait hours upon hours to eat steak.

This is the way realism is used in this game.

I am all for realism, but not at the stake of the ability to play a GAME. I love the challenge this game brings, but I also don't want it to get to a point where it because impossible to play.

Would any average joe be able to run 10km's across the map to help a friend without stopping in real life? No. It is these kinds of things that need to proceeded with cautiously.

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

Right as you have mentioned there are a lot of things in the game that aren't realistic... Making the zombies harder doesn't make dayz unplayable... It makes it more playable... It's not even that hard right now it's just a different situation plus there are always gonna be people who don't like it and people who do like it but the dayz playerbase will only grow from making zombies and gameplay more realistic... -Jeremiah-

I am not against zombies getting harder. But it doesn't matter how tough you make zombies, to me zombies are just part of the scenery to the way I play the game. And that's PvP. Zombies are so easy to avoid that I run through towns and look for what I want as fast as I can. Sooner I am out of town the safer I am.

But, it doesn't matter how "tough" you make zombies. With the AI of the zombies as they are now you can only get to a certain point before it breaks the playability of this mod. With warping through walls, phantom hits on you, you risk adding a negative impact to the game that doesn't necessarily make it more challenging. Just frustrating because of the AI.

And my post you quoted was in no way related to zombies. It was more a long the lines of realistic/unrealistic things we are able to do in this game. IE repairing choppers/vehicles.

[BEASTWolverine 16]

I am not against zombies getting harder. But it doesn't matter how tough you make zombies, to me zombies are just part of the scenery to the way I play the game. And that's PvP. Zombies are so easy to avoid that I run through towns and look for what I want as fast as I can. Sooner I am out of town the safer I am.

But, it doesn't matter how "tough" you make zombies. With the AI of the zombies as they are now you can only get to a certain point before it breaks the playability of this mod. With warping through walls, phantom hits on you, you risk adding a negative impact to the game that doesn't necessarily make it more challenging. Just frustrating because of the AI.

And my post you quoted was in no way related to zombies. It was more a long the lines of realistic/unrealistic things we are able to do in this game. IE repairing choppers/vehicles.

Okay this particular topic seems to have focused mainly on the zombies being tougher and that making survival too hard to lone wolf type players... That is why i thought you were saying that the harder zombies were too realistic for a game lmao...

[noreaster 41]

I see mostly people have completely missed the point of my previous post, so I will reiterate.

The fact that I would bet money on at least 70% of the kill on sight mentality being derived from squad based players completely and absolutely voids the argument that lone players should be penalized and not allowed to heal back up as efficiently on the premise that they are the ones out doing all the kill on sight banditry.

In fact, as a squad based player from my introduction of dayz until now spanning multiple servers I can tell you for an absolute fact the squad based players are vastly more likely to shoot you for no reason then some lone wolf roaming around by himself.

It's all about the Epeen. The Kill/death ratio horseshit that private hives like the BMRF are implementing.

..."Hey guys, look I just shot those two guys repairing tat car in the face" - Then radio silence as he waits for a reaction, a pat on the back.

[kingfury4 65]

Well maybe instead of KoSing everyone, the OP should try communicating with the non-zombie types (other players). Hey a lone wolf should be fucked in the apocalypse, so get the fuck out of here and go play Farcry.

You clearly haven't played DayZ. How often do you run into friendly players? You can meet an unarmed person and as soon as they find a weapon they'll most likely put a bullet in the back of your skull. The point of the lone wolf playstyle is because you can't trust anyone.

[jacobfl 5]

Wow...these changes...awsome! I had the impression it was game over man.

I'm a solo player and I support this to the max. Proper planning, risk vs reward, will be part of the game instead of just running in and being able to spam meat as a crutch to all the problems. Fantastic changes, got a link to the full patch notes so far?

[BEASTWolverine 16]

Wow...these changes...awsome! I had the impression it was game over man.

I'm a solo player and I support this to the max. Proper planning, risk vs reward, will be part of the game instead of just running in and being able to spam meat as a crutch to all the problems. Fantastic changes, got a link to the full patch notes so far?

This is pretty much how i feel...

[NorthWolfe 3]

People heal in real life, blood regenerates. Sure, allow transfusions and such but players should still heal slowly. Also, how the fuck do you work out what blood type you are? I have absolutely no clue and if I was dropped into a zombie apocalypse I don't think it would be the first thing that sprung to mind.

Yes, slow regeneration is what I was aiming at. Your last sentence strengthens the point I was making: If you "can't work out your blood type", as you rightly said, how in the fuck can you get a transfusion? In order to get a transfusion you must know your blood type, or you die!!! You don't just go into a hospital, pick up random blood-bags, and have your fix...the wrong blood-types would kill, not heal...that's my whole point on blood-bags,they are too unrealistic.

My suggestion is to have you spawn already knowing your blood type, randomly generated with your character. That way you will have to rely on somebody with compatible blood to give you a transfusion.

Edited February 16, 2013 by NorthWolfe

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

In RL a blood transfusions may need hours, not 5 seconds of rummaging.

In RL sniper rifles need to be zero'ed and adapted to your eye relief.

In RL a single shot from a M1911 or a revolver is enough to bring you down.

In RL weapons should be maintained.

In RL morphine does not fix broken bones.

...

There are tons of things which have been adapted (sometimes well,sometimes not so well) and are unrealistic. The game is full of compromises and you must drawn a line somewhere.

_Anubis_

[Dayzo 182]

As I've said several times now:

THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT v175 BETA. THE CHANGES WERE TAKEN OUT BEFORE THE v1751 PUBLIC RELEASE.

Also, you can't read one line in a changelog and then categorically state that these are good/bad changes. I'm afraid the changelog gives no indication of how a feature has been implemented or its impact on gameplay. It needs to be tested by actually playing it, before an opinion can be properly formed.

I understand that many players want survival to be harder (I'm one of them), but preventing players from regaining health in the way that it was implemented in the beta, was not the right way to do it, because it made the game (impossibly) difficult only for lone players. If the game is made harder, then it has to be for every player across the board.

And know that the beta I complained about didn't just make it slightly more difficult to use meat to regain health - it was nearly impossible. If a lone player got seriously injured (very, very easy because the zombies in that patch did a lot of damage on each hit), then basically the only option was to find a safe place to suicide and run back to your body, which by anyone's standards is a broken game.

The main problem with health is that pairs/teams have access to an over-powered feature that single players cannot access. If bloodbags were taken out completely, so that everyone had to hunt to regain health, then the meat system could be adjusted to be more difficult.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Anti