Making DayZ harder (less bandits?)

[Snablas 7]

So lately (and with lately I mean for quite some time) there have been a lot of threads complaining about the KoS attitude in DayZ and the amount of hackers. I see a lot of good suggestions about making zombies harder, but I think that the real problem is something a little different.

Please bear with my english. It's not top notch.

We can all agree on that DayZ is about, or at least should be about, survival, right? Fightig to survive in a zombie-infested world.

I think that the issue lies in that surviving is too easy, and the zombies are not the issue. Right now, anyone can survive for a very long time as long as they have a little water and a couple of cans of those sweet tasting beans (don't forget to give me beans BTW!). If you're out in the woods, you're unlikely to break your leg or get an open wound, so you barely need any morphine or painkillers. Heck, you might barely need food or water if you have a canteen, hatchet and a hunting knife. You get a crossbow, and you won't need ammo either. And here the fun ends, because living in the woods is a perfectly good life for a family in real life, where the only goal is survival and where you actually feel good for just staying healthy. But for a game to be fun you need drama:

So, when you're in the woods you have almost beat the game! No zombies to worry about, and players are a very rare sight. If you increase the zombie difficulty, you just endorse this playstyle. The only thing to do now is to get a jeep, or a chopper, or a better weapon. And then you're "the master"- You could help newspawns, but they'll probably just kill you. You don't need their help, and they'll by all probability just disappear soon anough, not granting you anything. And at any time, they can rob you of hours of hard work.

Some people say the answer is that when you reach that stage, you commit suicide and start over, again having your adrenalin pumping. Will you survive? Death is at every corner. Untill you find the mentioned items, then you need to kill yourself again. I say, the solution is to do just this. The players shall not survive like this! It's a disgrace to the DayZ-name!

Let's make the game harder, let's make the woods a dangerous place. Roaming zombies? I actually think this is a good idea. Zombies are eazy to avoid as it is, a couple more to torment the bush-wookies and Bear Grylls couldn't hurt, and it's not as if they would make roaming the woods impossible. And it's actually quite realistic, who wouldn't run to the woods when your neighbour tries to eat you?

Furthermore, diseases. It sounds like there's diseases planned for the big cities, to scare you away. Why not in the forest (and to comment on poo spreading diseases in the city, even in the apocalypse it's not like you're going to be wading in poo). Dangerous animals- I know a bear won't kill you, but a bite from a raccon might well if you're just living in the woods without any antibiotics. And make food more scarce! Make us refine the water, just drinking out of a random lake is sure to get you infested with a parasite. Reduce the amount of food, even in the cities, so that you can't just grab food from a couple of houses and live of that for the rest of your bandit-life.

On the topic of zombies, I think zombie- types is a great idea. As I think Rocket himself said, no acid-spewing-bat-zombies, but I was thinking of a really old, degenerated zombie that would appear dead, but once you're within a cople of meters, hell, once you've started to loot it, it would attack. And of course, since it is a zombie lying down with no legs, make it attack the legs first. The "booby trap-zombie". Remember it from the movies, the little fellow who kills one of the characters right after they survived that huge attack? A zombie which would make you consider wasting some ammo, just making sure it's dead. On the opposite, a very new, fresh zombie might still have a shred of humanity left. It screams as it runs towards you, attracting some friends. The pack of zombies. And make the "normal" zombies hit harder. Of course, this would be worthless if there wasn't a big need to go into the cities.

I think that this would make "snipers" (sorry if that term is misused, I think you know what I mean), and bandits just killing without looting more rare since the time to "beat" the game will be increased. They are not just killing for the heck of it, they are killing because they need it, and every time they don't need it they are taking an unnecessary risk, a risk that would take a lot of time to recover from.

Also, make the terrain harder to navigate and cross. So that we don't simply contact that member who died on steam, but start recruiting new members since we need people.

I think that this would make the game more fun, for everyone.

[Mos1ey 6301]

The only part I didn't like was the part about poo and disease which, ironically, is the part that's been confirmed for the game...

We definitely need the 'booby-trap zombie', a staple classic in anything zombie related.

I think as well as this we just need more end game content. Currently, in the eyes of those who lack the ability to think outside of what the game shoves directly in your face, the only thing to do once you're geared is repair vehicles and murder people.

Edited October 4, 2012 by mZLY

[camycamera 36]

Rocket mentioned making dayz a harder place to survive, here is the vid:

[Snablas 7]

I think that perhapse more end-game conten isn't the way to go, maybye we need to make the road to end-game longer?

[sostronk 334]

I work together in a team, with other players in my teamspeak. I think thats a point people are missing. There are alot of people who came to this game and want to meet up with and work with complete strangers. I don't diss it, its their choice. But Ive worked with "strangers" before and even when they are trying to help they will screw things up. The only path this is going to lead to is teaming up in a clan and organizing together outside of a game or lonewolf. Unless Rocket does something radical like automatching with no "party" feature its the only way it will go no matter what he does to the game.

[CJBlackbird 10]

The way to make this game harder in my opinion is to design the game so that players need to go back to the cities more often.

Right now all you need to technically reach end game is:

• A hatchet (to kill animals and chop wood)
  
• A box of matches (to turn said wood into a fire)
  
• A water bottle (to constantly refill and rehydrate yourself)
  

Anything more than that is a luxury.

Now instantly there are at least two opportunities for the game to get harder already;

1. The box of matches could be limited to say having only 10 matches.
   
2. The hatchet will eventually get dull and need to be sharpened.
   

There's a wide range of things that could make you need to head back to the city, illness, the need for dry clothes, boredom... we could go on.

I think making the need to go back to the city is more important than making the woods dangerous.

Edited October 4, 2012 by CJBlackbird

[Sutinen 635]

Even if the zombies one-hit kill you, the bandits wont stop. It will affect normal survivors even more, since they go into loot spots to get supplies, unlike bandits who mostly kill other people for it. (They don't need to go in the loot spot, they can easily take you out from a distance.)

Edited October 4, 2012 by Sutinen

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

What is with the weird fixation this community seems to have on fecal matter??

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

What is with the weird fixation this community seems to have on fecal matter??

This community is going to shit! ;)

[Snablas 7]

The way to make this game harder in my opinion is to design the game so that players need to go back to the cities more often.

Right now all you need to technically reach end game is:

• A hatchet (to kill animals and chop wood)
  
• A box of matches (to turn said wood into a fire)
  
• A water bottle (to constantly refill and rehydrate yourself)
  

Anything more than that is a luxury.

Now instantly there are at least two opportunities for the game to get harder already;

1. The box of matches could be limited to say having only 10 matches.
   
2. The hatchet will eventually get dull and need to be sharpened.
   

There's a wide range of things that could make you need to head back to the city, illness, the need for dry clothes, boredom... we could go on.

I think making the need to go back to the city is more important than making the woods dangerous.

This. But illnes, need for dry clothes and so on are the things that would make the woods dangerous.

[Snablas 7]

Even if the zombies one-hit kill you, the bandits wont stop. It will affect normal survivors even more, since they go into loot spots to get supplies, unlike bandits who mostly kill other people for it. (They don't need to go in the loot spot, they can easily take you out from a distance.)

Of course not, but hving a longer road to the "endgame" would mean that they would get more attached to their gear. With duping and hacking out of the way, I think bandits would be really catious.

[bfisher 561]

I think random zombies in the woods and actually fixing the temperature thing so you have to build fires or go inside to keep from freezing to death would go a long way.

[V2_Danny 48]

If you get deceases easily, antibiotics need to be waaaay more common, and not only to be found in hospitals. I have antibiotics in my house, so it would make sense to make them a rare spawn in residential/industrial/military spawns. And a semi normal spawn in hospitals. If not everyone would be running around beeing sick, and the game might as well just start you off with 6k blood.

On another note making the game harder would create more bandits, not remove them. I play in a big group, and we normally dont kill other people (we are not required, we can survive avoiding other players), but if zombies got harder and thougher, and there was less food to be found in the cities... I would take up banditing as a lifestyle, because that would generally be easier than risking the life going into a city. It would also make the gab between new spawn and advanced survivors even bigger. I sometimes take on a new player to show him the ropes nowadays, even though he can be annoying, and attract fuckloads of zombies. If the game was alot harder i would not bother to help new spawn, because it would be such a high risk to my own life.

I think random zombies in the woods and actually fixing the temperature thing so you have to build fires or go inside to keep from freezing to death would go a long way.

Building a fire or going into a house while freezing ingame, does fix your temprature....

Edited October 4, 2012 by V2_Danny

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

If making survival more difficult created even more need for banditry, it would still be a good thing because they're killing others out of necessity because they need to survive.

It will certainly reduce pointless KoS with no intention to loot, and personally, I believe it will make players show their true colours.

I would like to think I could maintain my friendly and helpful attitude, but you really never know, when push comes to shove, what you might end up doing.

It could cause groups of dedicated Heroes (anti bandits) to either band together stronger than ever, or fall to pieces fighting for survival to the bitter end.

Same with bandit groups. More people to watch your back means more mouths to feed.

[Snablas 7]

If making survival more difficult created even more need for banditry, it would still be a good thing because they're killing others out of necessity because they need to survive.

It will certainly reduce pointless KoS with no intention to loot, and personally, I believe it will make players show their true colours.

I would like to think I could maintain my friendly and helpful attitude, but you really never know, when push comes to shove, what you might end up doing.

It could cause groups of dedicated Heroes (anti bandits) to either band together stronger than ever, or fall to pieces fighting for survival to the bitter end.

Same with bandit groups. More people to watch your back means more mouths to feed.

Beans

[oldfossil 59]

What is with the weird fixation this community seems to have on fecal matter??

More than a fixation seems to be due to an HUGE bean consumption for feeding...another way to feel the presence of some bandit or survivor in the neighborhoods will come from the sense of smell.

[Swineflew 480]

Building a fire or going into a house while freezing ingame, does fix your temprature....

I think he means that being cold is a non-issue.

I personally would love raid to make you sick unless you find shelter, need to keep warm at night either by fire or shelter.

I haven't played in a month or so, but unless they change something, I've never been sick at all.

I actually wish there was caves, that way you could find shelter in the wilderness too.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Caves would be a really good addition. Going to need somewhere to keep all the bears and wolves!

I wonder if they'll give us a touch of rabies in the standalone.

The only time my character got sick was from a random chance hit from a Zed, and I just so happened to have antibiotics in my kit, so it didn't pose a threat in the least.

I can't even begin to imagine what array of fantastic diseases await us in the future.

Gotta catch 'em all

[Swineflew 480]

I got sidetracked from what I came to post here.

No matter how hard the game gets, even if it gets impossible to survive alone, it won't force people to play nice with strangers.

Me personally would just find a group out of game and proceed to do bandit things with them. I don't really like playing or grouping with strangers I meet in game. I know it's a weird thing to say coming from someone who plays online games, but I don't like bumping into someone and grouping with them, I can really point out why.

[Oompa 25]

I think he means that being cold is a non-issue.

I personally would love raid to make you sick unless you find shelter, need to keep warm at night either by fire or shelter.

I haven't played in a month or so, but unless they change something, I've never been sick at all.

I actually wish there was caves, that way you could find shelter in the wilderness too.

When is the last time you got sick from rain?

I mean... I have been going out in the rain and below freezing point temperatures (up to -25C) with wet hair and nothing more than a t-shirt without getting sick once in the last... 19 years (my entire life), at least not from that.

I don't want to be limited by other people's immune systems XD

Edited October 4, 2012 by Oompa

[Erizid 56]

Personally, I think since zombies will be able to run through buildings and eventually catch a player when they slow down and tire, Zombies will become a main threat again. I don't know if anything will surpass the tension of a player-encounter, but Zombies might come close.

[Snablas 7]

I got sidetracked from what I came to post here.

No matter how hard the game gets, even if it gets impossible to survive alone, it won't force people to play nice with strangers.

Me personally would just find a group out of game and proceed to do bandit things with them. I don't really like playing or grouping with strangers I meet in game. I know it's a weird thing to say coming from someone who plays online games, but I don't like bumping into someone and grouping with them, I can really point out why.

Of course! I might have been a bit sloppy in my text (English is not my mane language), I meant that if surviving/gearing up was harder, then perhapse bandits would be more inclined to only attack players that they need to kill. I think that a lot of killing nowadays is because people are bore, or at least think PVP is the best passtime. If they were to be more entertained, then perhapse there would be less mindless slaughter and rather attacks against th players who would provide more "worthy" loot. They would still be killing, and it would still be a viable playstyle, but less geared players wouldn't be such a target if the bullets were worth more. I think increasing the need for the players in the game would mean killing would be limited to that which is needed for the bandits. Mostly, anyway.

[Swineflew 480]

Of course! I might have been a bit sloppy in my text (English is not my mane language), I meant that if surviving/gearing up was harder, then perhapse bandits would be more inclined to only attack players that they need to kill. I think that a lot of killing nowadays is because people are bore, or at least think PVP is the best passtime. If they were to be more entertained, then perhapse there would be less mindless slaughter and rather attacks against th players who would provide more "worthy" loot. They would still be killing, and it would still be a viable playstyle, but less geared players wouldn't be such a target if the bullets were worth more. I think increasing the need for the players in the game would mean killing would be limited to that which is needed for the bandits. Mostly, anyway.

I can say that if I only had 1 bullet left in my gun and I could kill a totally unarmed player "wasting" my last shot. I would take the shot. That's just me and if there was more to do that might curb pvp, but there are a lot of people who play this for pvp and no matter what they'll kill people with no real reward, it's the way they play the game.

[ZomboWTF 527]

i want the ability to throw full tin cans instead of empty ones, should have much more impact

[Zombie Jesus 723]

I can say that if I only had 1 bullet left in my gun and I could kill a totally unarmed player "wasting" my last shot. I would take the shot. That's just me and if there was more to do that might curb pvp, but there are a lot of people who play this for pvp and no matter what they'll kill people with no real reward, it's the way they play the game.

Yea that is not really PvP that is called being a dick. Shooting a new spawn is stupid and is neither fun or tactical (I have seen the completely stupid I am eliminating a future threat argument and since they just respawn with the same gear you do not achieve that goal). I actually do not care about dying as a new spawn because those painkillers and bandage will replace themselves, but I get why people find it frustrating.

Not saying I do not kill people just because I am bored because I do this all the time, just saying some standards on what targets you select. Guy has an Enfield and a patrol pack, he is fair game. Guy is running around with only a flashlight and no weapon on his back, maybe try not being a douchebag and wait until he gets that sweet makarov.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Zombie Jesus