DayZ Weapons - A Question?

[Bludy 324]

double barrels everywhere, some scoped hunting rifle, some handgun, assault rifles maybe in weapons stores, but not with the full auto mode, it could be possible only in police stations or army compounds , with machineguns, smgs and high power rifles or explosives. except for gun powder which is everywhere.

[Inception. 9443]

Ummm...I'm Australian and I can tell you you'd find many weapons.

I have a Beretta, three .22s, a Ruger M77 308, two Winchesters...a double barreled shotgun, a .357 magnum, a .44 magnum, all in my house. The list could go on.

But then again, maybe that's just me.

[Inception. 9443]

Ummm...I'm Australian and I can tell you you'd find many weapons.

I have a Beretta, three .22s, a Ruger M77 308, two Winchesters...a double barreled shotgun, a .357 magnum, a .44 magnum, all in my house. The list could go on. I also have a handgun, shotgun and rifle license [minors, of course]. The gun laws in Australia aren't that strict.

But then again, maybe that's just me.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Inception.

[kebman 213]

In Norway hunting rifles, shotguns and saloon rifles are the norm, usually at farms where there are licensed hunters. Many of these also have the room and equipment to make their own ammo. Hunting is big in Norway as there's plenty of forest to roam, and much game like that of grouse and moose.

There are not many people with weapons in the city or in "regular" homes due to strict gun laws. One exception is if they're collectors - and in that case, expect MP5's, WW2 guns, or more exotic firearms, hehe, and swords and flint lock pistols. Most of these are however illegal, or the guns are made unusable. Such collectors are far and few between, though. The two other exception are of course criminals who own pistols, and gun club members - the only ones who can legally own side arms in Norway. Also not too many of those...

There are however many military home guardsmen around, and most of them have cases and trunks with parts for the HK AG3 or other army issue weapons, as they're supposed to be able to mobilize in a very short amount of time. In any case it's against the law to store weapons in a state where they are ready to use, so certain parts, like the firing pin, are usually stored in separate rooms, or even separate buildings like the many mobilization centrals, so it's not like you'd find a usable AG3 just like that.

"Fun" fact: You wouldn't find crossbows in Norway as they're illegal. Or at least they were for a long time.

Most of this is also true for the other Scandinavian countries.

To sum up Scandinavia:

• Rifles, shotguns and saloon rifles at most farms or the apparment of a hunter.
  
• Not much weapons, if any, in the city due to strict gun laws (with a few exceptions).
  
• Home guardsmen store some military weapons, but they're not ready to use.
  

So you could say there's actually a fair amount of weapons in Scandinavia despite strict gun laws. Most of the population know how to handle a gun pretty well due to mandatory military service and basic training for everyone, and the system of trained home guardsmen who will hump their asses into the mountains and forest and conduct guerilla warfare for a hundred years if anyone decided to try something stupid.

I'd expect survivors after a zombie apocalypse would most likely be rural hunters, military guardsmen or simply nature lovers (many of those over here) who hid there asses in the bush until things started to quiet down. Thus after an apocalypse, you might find some weapons in tents or in huts or cabins in the forest.

Another fun fact to end the discussion: In Norway we produce the famed multi purpose round. It won't just pierce a hole in your torso. It will blow it away completely. ;) Other than that we're a peace- and nature loving nation.

Edited September 28, 2012 by kebman

[christopherwright_75@hotmail.co.uk 109]

Uk gun ownership is pretty limited and then limited to, shotguns (not exceeding a magazine of 3 cartridges) on shotgun licences which are reasonably common in rural areas (and easy to get). Rifles - Bolt Action in any calibre on a Fire Arms Certificate (FAC) these are rarer as you need to show justification to own the weapon and the certificate does not allow you to simply buy weapons each weapon must be police approved and entered on the certificate. FAC also allows for shotguns with larger magazines but again have to be justified. I own a Lee Enfield SMLE and it's easier to jump through flaming hoops than get another weapon.

In the event of an apocalypse the civilian weapons would be pretty irrelevent this country is FULL of military weapons in storage, we spent the Cold War stockpiling weapons and ammo for the commie invasion these "War Stocks" still exist and contain mountains of everything from small arms to towed artillery and armoured vehicles, their locations may not be public knowledge but in the event of meltdown of society it wouldnt take long for that stuff to spread out.

TLDR - Apocalpyse UK - Few Enfields and shotguns- SHITLOAD of FN FAL, FN MAG, L85A1/A2, L86A1/A2, FN GP35, BREN gun (the 7.62 version is still in war stock)

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

In Norway hunting rifles, shotguns and saloon rifles are the norm, usually at farms where there are licensed hunters. Many of these also have the room and equipment to make their own ammo. Hunting is big in Norway as there's plenty of forest to roam, and much game like that of grouse and moose.

There are not many people with weapons in the city or in "regular" homes due to strict gun laws. One exception is if they're collectors - and in that case, expect MP5's, WW2 guns, or more exotic firearms, hehe, and swords and flint lock pistols. Most of these are however illegal, or the guns are made unusable. Such collectors are far and few between, though. The two other exception are of course criminals who own pistols, and gun club members - the only ones who can legally own side arms in Norway. Also not too many of those...

There are however many military home guardsmen around, and most of them have cases and trunks with parts for the HK AG3 or other army issue weapons, as they're supposed to be able to mobilize in a very short amount of time. In any case it's against the law to store weapons in a state where they are ready to use, so certain parts, like the firing pin, are usually stored in separate rooms, or even separate buildings like the many mobilization centrals, so it's not like you'd find a usable AG3 just like that.

"Fun" fact: You wouldn't find crossbows in Norway as they're illegal. Or at least they were for a long time.

Most of this is also true for the other Scandinavian countries.

Satwcomic.com love you guys! Honestly if I had the means and a job waiting for me I'd move there in a heartbea. Except Finland lol stereotypes are fun! (prepares for the incoming ban from a certain mold breaking, funny, and kind Finnish Mod.)

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

Spaztastic windows phone yay!double post.

Now where was I oh yeah! Damn Finnish! I would think I'd feel better about my kids future over there as it stands now. I love my country don't get me wrong, just we are a nation of hypocrite. (myself included) and I fear we are on the decline. Politically and morally, when you got politicians who think science is a conspiracy something is not right! When we are quick to punish everyone for everything and never consider the ramifications something is wrong! Eh I'll shut up now.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Pendragon

[nihilisst 43]

What I think has a big influence on the rarity (or commonness) of Firearms - and what nobody seems to mention - is the point at which the Game takes Place.

The distribution of firearms and ammunition will definitely change a lot depending on how much time has passed since "the event".

Let's compare a few points:

- immediately before and at the very beginning: The Situation will be as most describe here in the thread:

depending on the country, in civil homes will be found almost none (EU) to almost everything (US)

Weapon Stores will have a Standard Stock of Weapons and Ammunition.

Military facilities will have "full" armories with Assault Rifles, LMGs, Sniper Rifles, SMGs, Equipment ...

Same for Police Stations.

- When the population becomes aware of the thread, the military + Police try to keep order:

People will stock up on Weapons + Ammo. In the US, Civil Homes will be full.

Weapon Stores will be empty (except for some guns, but most likely no ammo), as everyone wants to be prepared.

Military facilities + Police Stations won't have "full" armories anymore, as Soldiers and Officers will be out on the streets to keep order and fight the Zeds.

- During the Apocalypse: Martial Law, Chaos, Destruction, ...

Civilians will barricade in their homes and pump out lead on everything that moves outside.

Military and Police will pump out lead on everything that moves on the streets.

Most military weapons will be in circulation. Everything that's left in the facilities are leftovers; malfunctioning guns etc

-> Ammo gets rarer and Weapons are spread all over the country.

Already now, Looters will try to get as much as they can from dead soldiers, empty houses and stores.

- The Aftermath: The Military failed, Civilization has come to an end.

Some People will have survived (We, the Players), but unfortunately no one that was barricaded in his house with tons of guns.

Military Equipment will be spread all over the country, mostly on dead soldiers, in crashed trucks or helis, in basecamps ...

Raiders + Bandits will roam the lands and loot everything of worth. So most Military equipment will already be gone.

And anyways, The military has spent most of their ammo. All that's left are some half empty or empty mags. Surviving soldiers and Equipment will have been flown out onto some aircraft carrier. (Except for some downed helis)

- The Reconstruction: Slowly, but steadily, some kind of order is restored.

A Post-Apocalyptic Situation like in the "Fallout" Games.

New Societies, Tribes start to form, People start to settle down again.

Zombies are killed and become less.

Currencies and economies are created.

Military and Police forces are getting organized.

And so on.

I think we all agree that the DayZ Setting is "The Aftermath".

So we can pin down:

- Military Equipment: Weapons, Ammunition, Tools, Vehicles, ... Is spread all over the land.

Dead Soldiers, Crashed Vehicles, Crashed Helis, Camps. All small locations that held a small amount of equipment.

Larger Military facilities hold only leftovers, not more than every other small Camp.

Same for Police Stations.

The Equipment is worn, ammo is spent and has been taken by Raiders.

There is not much left, And everything's widespread. There are NO Central Locations that hold "the best" or "the most" loot.

- Civil Weapons: Shotguns, Hunting Rifles, Pistols, Historic or Collector's Weapons. (Maybe some AKs)

People will have stocked up on Ammo, but will also have spent a lot of it.

Depending on how (realisticly) the distribution of arms would be in Country like Chernarus, that amount of Guns & Ammo could be found in Civil Homes.

But again, Raiders have looted everything they could find. So, there won't be 30 Guns with 1000 Rounds each in every house.

So, there can be anything, from complete armories with 3 Hunting Rifles, 2 Shotguns, 6 Different Pistols/Revolvers, 5 Historic (useless) Weapons and a few boxes of ammo for each, to 1 Revolver with 4 Rounds that you have to take from the cold, dead hands of the guy that shot himself and his wife.

(This of course, needs to be randomized, to prevent having again the ONE location that will become the destination for everyone. Like 1 Full Weapons Cabinet for every 100 enterable Houses, randomized once a day.)

- Weapon Stores will be empty (If there even are some in Chernarus)

For Melee Weapons: Everything that's suited can be used. Baseball Bats, Golf clubs, Cricket Bats, Crowbars, Hatchets, Knives, Machetes, Sticks, Hammers, ...

TL; DR: Less Firearms (especially Military) IS realistic. Think about the development of an apocalypse.

And Sorry if I'm not clear or contradict myself or something.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Nihilisst

[DemonGroover 8836]

I suppose after the ammo runs out and the magical loot fairy is no more we would all end up using clubs and bows and arrows again.

[kebman 213]

-> Ammo gets rarer and Weapons are spread all over the country.

It will take years for that to happen. Not to mention that people can make their own ammo. Plenty of hunters have their own ammo making "factories" at home here in peaceful Norway.

At any given day in the army we would easily spend many hundred rounds at the firing range, and even more with weaponry like the MG3.

Look, zeds aren't that difficult to hit unless they're rampaging right at you. It's not like they take cover or anything. Instead they slowly roam the contryside, and thus it won't take much ammo to shoot one. If you get time to aim, one bullet is enough.

If you were talking about a civil war, then probably, maybe, ammo would get scarce - after a few years. But given how the outbreak - or whatever you call it - would weed off arms capable humas at an alarming rate, the leftover ammo would in fact increase per person after a zombie apocalypse.

This is supported with evidence from the 1300's when The Black Death roamed the contry. People died at an alarming rate, but at the same time, resources actually became much greater for the survivors. And the fewer survivors, the more resources would be left over after the casualties are weeded off.

Many of Norwegians are surnamed "Ødegård". It can simply be translated into "Deserted Farm". This is a legacy from The Black Death and the many deserted farms that were settled by... survivors. ;)

Edited September 28, 2012 by kebman

[ZomboWTF 527]

Well, i live in germany, and for god's sake the germans use G36 variants, and i know of some military headquarters in my city

[nihilisst 43]

The thing is, there are so many things happening at the same time, and over time.

It's a - admittedly slow - but steady process, that as a final result, has a situation where everything is scarce.

Ammo + Weapon Factories stop working and stop sending their product out into the world.

All the Resources you need to make your own ammo come from somewhere, too. (I don't know shit about that, but I suppose it's rather specific stuff)

The Military + Authorities will get the hell out of the area, once it's clear they don't stand a chance, and take their stuff with them.

Everyone will be looking for Stuff he can use. The Moment the Chaos starts, the first people start to take what they want without asking or paying.

You know how fast bottled water is sold out when there is some kind of emergency.

The Population doesn't magically disappear from one second to another, and "We" (The Players) aren't the first and not the only ones to look for useful loot.

But you have a point, yes. (@kebman)

But I think, too much ammo results in two things, that make DayZ shit right now: Hoarding (Hey, a box with 50 Mags! better take all and store them at the Camp, so I'll have enough) and Shoot On Sight- Mentality (Why be friendly, I have enough ammo to fill him with 30 rounds)

Edited September 28, 2012 by Nihilisst

[kebman 213]

Even if they completely stopped producing more ammo, loading your own ammo isn't that much of a hassle. The stockpiles of ammo in most European countries are... incredible. And if most of the people were weeded off into zombiehood, there would be even more ammo per person. IRL you could probably just move from town to town and headshot zeds to clean things up, and then start to rebuild society.

The only real danger would be marauding bandits and the chance that your mate suddenly "turned" while you were sleeping. Or maybe an ambush of roaming zeds in a pack. Your worst enemy would in fact be contamination and turning into a zombie yourself.

Sure, hoarding would be a problem - but where? Stacking tons of ammo in the woods would IRL leave trails. It would be hard to disguise. It would in fact be much simpler to set up camp at an already established military stockpile and guard it as best you can. Sure, it might attract some attention, but then again, the few who did come, would probably be welcome, as any help would be much appreciated and because in real life, there's strength in numbers.

The real struggle would be who should have control over the survivors. I suppose the new types of "government" would be much like those of many failed African democracies. It would start with "garrison commanders" (self proclaimed or not, legitimate or not) taking control.

There would in fact not be much KOS. Instead loners would willingly surrender to bigger groups, and the real fight would be for the top positions in the social hierarchy of those groups. Anybody showing the least sign of aggression or opposition would be shot, or at least ousted from the group.

However, for the sake of a good story, making ammo scarce and other people more dangerouse to your personal safety, would be much better. John Ford said, if you get the chance to make a story about the legend, or about what really happen - you should always choose the legend.

[christopherwright_75@hotmail.co.uk 109]

Ammo would take years to run out especially for military weapons, I think people don't realise just how much ammunition and arms are hoarded away in countries, your local Reserve barracks may only have a few tens of thousands of rounds and an armoury for a platoon/company but all over most countries there are large warehouses overflowing with the stuff, 67 years of collective paranoia since the Second World War have led to alot of hoarding.

[Derpy_Hooves (DayZ) 4521]

Ammo would take years to run out especially for military weapons, I think people don't realise just how much ammunition and arms are hoarded away in countries, your local Reserve barracks may only have a few tens of thousands of rounds and an armoury for a platoon/company but all over most countries there are large warehouses overflowing with the stuff, 67 years of collective paranoia since the Second World War have led to alot of hoarding.

Free Ammo for everyone!!

[DemonGroover 8836]

How do you make your own ammo?

Lots of interesting stuff coming out - i never thought about how much ammo would be stockpiled around the world, but it makes sense.

Does ammo go bad at all or would it take years?

[christopherwright_75@hotmail.co.uk 109]

How do you make your own ammo?

Lots of interesting stuff coming out - i never thought about how much ammo would be stockpiled around the world, but it makes sense.

Does ammo go bad at all or would it take years?

It has a shelf life but in reality it's useable way past this life, military surplus ammunition is sold on to civilian market shooters in many places after the military shelf life is over this stuff is then possibly stored for years or even decades. Soviet "spam can" cases of 7.62 are still being sold and fired now with 50 year old manufacture dates. Obviously storage is the main issue as long as the stuff is kept in the sealed containers it was packaged in degradation is not an issue, loose rounds or non sealed containers degradation could become an issue but again not for a while.

[Trizzo 632]

To make "ammo" for modern rifles you need shell casing, primer, powder, bullet (not for all rifles). Lets take the 7.62 from the m24. You can 'reload' a bullet by replacing the primer (that the firing pin hits when you pull the trigger) fill the empty case (that you eject after firing) with powder (gun powder), put in your bullet then using a bullet press, press it together. Its a lot more complicated than that but thats how it generally goes for center fire cartridges. That depends on having stockpiles of poweder, bullets and primers which you can easily buy on mass.

Now...you can make "gun powder" (black powder is made of seventy-five parts salt peter finely ground, fifteen parts charcoal, and ten parts sulfur, its black, smokey and rough!), FYI you can use your own piss in part of making gunpowder! You can mould bullets, you can reuse shell casings, making primers im not so savy on the how.The problem is you need engergy/resources to do this! Finding the metals to make ammunition might be difficult...melting copper is one possibility, using a furnace. The first basic "hand cannons" have existed since the 13th Centuary. A simple rifle would be best because modern cartriages use complex mixtures of powders that without industry would be harder to make.

As for stockpiles ammo well Wr6 told you about that...my friend uses ammo for his mosin nagant dated sine the 50's, i've used ammunition from the 60's. It works...but its not ideal. I had a Lee-enfield 303-25 , the cartridge fell out of use and I was given surplus rounds. I fired 3 rounds, the last one disintergrated in the barrel causing a nasty blockage that almost ruined the rifle.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Trizzo

[DemonGroover 8836]

To make "ammo" for modern rifles you need sheel casing, primer, powder, bullet (as a general rule of thumb). Lets take the 7.62 from the m24. You can 'reload' a bullet by replacing the primer (that the firing pin hits when you pull the trigger) fill the empty case with powder (gun powder), put in your bullet then press it together. Its a lot more complicated than that but thats how it generally goes for center fire cartridges. That depends on having stockpiles of poweder, bullets and primers.

Now...you can make gun powder, you can mould bullets, you can reuse shell casings, making primers im not so savy on the how.The problem is you need engergy/resources to do this! Finding the metals to make ammunition might be difficult...melting copper is one possibility, using a furnace. Think when muskets and rifles were made, it has been done for hundreds of years, basic "hand cannons" since the 13th Centuary. A simple rifle would be best because modern cartriages use complex mixtures of powders that without industry would be hard to make.

As for stockpiles ammo well Wr6 told you about that...my friend uses ammo for his mosin nagant dated sine the 50's, i've used ammunition from the 60's. It works...but its not ideal.

I suppose if bullets did eventually run out we would still have the know how to make musket type weapons. Not ideal for zombies swarming all over you though.

[nihilisst 43]

I think the back story of the apocalypse must be designed to fit the best balance of Ammo & Weapons in the game.

(For my taste, that'd mean Extremely Rare Military Weapons + Ammo. And Civil Weapons like Shotguns or Hunting Rifles a bit more common. More or less like I explained in my other post)

DayZ takes place in an 225 km² area of the ex-sovjet state "Chernarus".

Everything that happens outside of this area has nothing to do with the game. (the Area of the map doesn't hold all the ammunition and weapon reserves of the whole world, not even of the whole country)

I think a logical calculation of ammo + weapons that are available in game, would be the "normal" realistic amount that is actually available in a similar area IRL.

And then comes the tricky part: the back story. The Military has left the area and shut it down (with a huge wall or whatever). And it left with most of its equipment. All that's left is some stuff that can be found on dead soldiers or at crash sites. (half empty mags etc)

There is no weapon or ammo manufacturer in the area.

No (or maybe one small) arms store. So Citizens won't have stocked up that much on ammo + Guns.

And ammo will already have been spent during the apocalypse.

Also, equipment will have been looted by raiders.

Considering all this, there simply isn't enough ammo + weapons to "last for years".

It's DayZ Chernarus, not DayZ Europe or DayZ USA...

[colekern 1364]

It depends. In America, it really depends on where you live. In more rural places, like, say, certain parts of Arkansas, you'd most likely find a hunting shotgun(long barreled, low capacity, and very accurate shotgun), or hunting rifle. But you'd also find crazy stuff in rural areas fairly easily(Ar 15's, 357 magnums, and extended mag shotguns). In cities, however, the most you'd find in a home is a self-defense pistol. As for ammo, in cities, practically none. In rural areas, you'd find enough to last several lifetimes.

Edited September 28, 2012 by colekern