high-end loot should not exist in DayZ

[nic0 14]

tell me your thoughts...

having played the game for about a month, i've noticed the following about having high-end loot - it ruins my game and make things a lot less fun.

it's not just me. we hear a lot (a LOT) about combat logging, alt-f4 and so on. people logout at the slightest provocation rather than die. why? because they don't want to lose their high-end loot. and why would they want to lose it? it's such a pain in the arse to get it all back, and such an effort to get it in the first place.

now, part of the draw of the game was always, for me, the feeling you get of excitement while simply running through an open field - the terror of suddenly being killed and losing everything in one go. it grounds you in the game.

but, and this is important, it also makes you play like an asshole most of the time. low-pop servers, staying out of towns. avoiding conflict. alt-f4.

i know this isn't everyone - some of you play "properly", happy to lose your gillie, AS50, NVGs, all that stuff, and happy to now have to spend the next few weeks searching for it all again (and, of course, you don't have a friend who can resupply you - it's all down to you, right?). well - i admire your commitment.

but most people, and hence the bitter complaints about combat logging, don't play that way. i don't play that way. i get easily spooked as soon as my gear gets good, and my enjoyment suffers as a result. i stay away from towns, never fire a shot for fear of being heard, never engage a tango.

i realised this yesterday when someone blew my head off (in the middle of nowhere, near-empty server, kinda suspicious but what-the-hell) and i lost my DMR, AS50, gillie, the lot. i felt like giving up.

then i logged back in, found an AK at balota, had someone try and kill me; and instead of running, or logging, i engaged and had the best 10 minutes of play in dayz i've had in about 2 weeks. it was a revelation. nothing to lose, everything to play for, incredible gaming. i even killed the guy, except he combat logged because he had good gear!

having the high-end loot adds the fear and panic into the game, but it kills the gameplay. not for all - not for you, maybe, but it kills it for enough people to make combat-logging and hacking endemic and that, overall, kills the entire game.

i say we should make the high-end loot much easier to find, or remove it entirely. give people choice, but don't have things that are so rare as to change your level of engagement with the game. or make it possible for you to save things that you can keep beyond death. combat logging will be a thing of the past, and the towns and cities will be reinvigorated again.

[wookiesxs 9]

1. Dont get to attached to your gear

2. Letting "High-end" gear easy to obtain would be no fun at all, i mean, 40 guys with as50s in 1 server is not fun. It aslo removes a huge part of the game.

[Bearded McGee 121]

Sorta agree.

Wouldnt be so bad without dupping and scripting in.

How's this. Lower the mil weapon loot percentages a whole lot, make loot respawn not every ten minutes but at random, the median being around an hour. Make ammo EXCRUCIATINGLY hard to find for anything past barn-level weapons.

It's not so much a removal of items that we need, we just need better loot tables and a longer respawn time on loot piles.

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

Whaa, but, ahh, huh? Hmmm ok.

[CM LEGION 29]

yyeah mister the game shud be fair and mean old bandit mr mcooty poopy head shud not be abel to kill nice guy white knight hero boring generic survivor! lol m 12 nd wdf is dis? back to lOl

[sostronk 334]

Lingor has me perplexed. Initially I thought getting access to gear easier than it already is would ruin the game. Yet I enjoy Lingor more. I guess you can add the fact that dieing doesn't mean as much because you can gear up quicker.

[nic0 14]

1. Dont get to attached to your gear

2. Letting "High-end" gear easy to obtain would be no fun at all, i mean, 40 guys with as50s in 1 server is not fun. It aslo removes a huge part of the game.

1. yes, deffo. but how do you avoid getting attached to it when it's so hard to replace, or virtually irreplaceable?

2. i agree when it comes to as50s. they add nothing. and having one doesn't make you a better player, or give you any more chance of survival. i've been killed more times with an as50 in my hand than with any other weapon. they're rare, that's all. and they allow you to one-shot-kill a chopper, making vehicles largely redundant too.

we're in alpha here, so it's fine, but there is a serious and appalling lack of balance in the game at the moment.

[zombie3000@hotmail.co.uk 27]

Lingor has me perplexed. Initially I thought getting access to gear easier than it already is would ruin the game. Yet I enjoy Lingor more. I guess you can add the fact that dieing doesn't mean as much because you can gear up quicker.

This. Ive never seen anyone combat log on Lingor because its easier to find decent gear again when you respawn.

[nic0 14]

Sorta agree.

Wouldnt be so bad without dupping and scripting in.

How's this. Lower the mil weapon loot percentages a whole lot, make loot respawn not every ten minutes but at random, the median being around an hour. Make ammo EXCRUCIATINGLY hard to find for anything past barn-level weapons.

It's not so much a removal of items that we need, we just need better loot tables and a longer respawn time on loot piles.

agree up to a point. but making ammo hard to find will discourage combat engagement. i enjoy the combat, and i want to have more excuses to engage with it. right now i never fire a shot unless i absolutely have to - i don't even kill zeds for fear of drawing a player. i want to draw players! i want to engage!

making ammo hard to find will exacerbate that, i feel.

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

1. yes, deffo. but how do you avoid getting attached to it when it's so hard to replace, or virtually irreplaceable?

2. i agree when it comes to as50s. they add nothing. and having one doesn't make you a better player, or give you any more chance of survival. i've been killed more times with an as50 in my hand than with any other weapon. they're rare, that's all. and they allow you to one-shot-kill a chopper, making vehicles largely redundant too.

we're in alpha here, so it's fine, but there is a serious and appalling lack of balance in the game at the moment.

Honestly your talking about balancein DayZ? There is no balancing DayZ... besides player created. You either survive or don't perfectly balanced.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Pendragon

[_headripper_ 8]

Easy.. a mandatory ~20s timer every time u logout = problem solved with the ALT f4 thingy

Edited September 19, 2012 by _Kane_

[Bass50 43]

Whaat, getting high-end gear is already way too easy. If anything it should be made a lot rarer, dying SHOULD mean a lot. Making gearing up easier is the worst possible way I can think of to avoid combat loggers.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Bass50

[nic0 14]

This. Ive never seen anyone combat log on Lingor because its easier to find decent gear again when you respawn.

yes, although it seems to me that the game could descent into something ugly if there's too easy access to loot, or if the map encourages a frag-fest. there needs to be a balance between encouraging combat and engagement (which is FUN! - this is meant to be a game!) and pure survival, but i feel that in the default map, with the default loot-tables, there isn't.

survival means hiding in the woods, never firing a shot, combat logging, which isn't fun (it *could* be fun, but not without many more in-game mechanics to make it fun - build a lasting camp, hunt (properly) for food, live in a cave/tree, better camo).

[nic0 14]

Easy.. a mandatory ~20s timer every time u logout = problem solved with the ALT f4 thingy

no. that would make things worse - overall, players would be even less likely to engage or put themselves at risk. my issue is with the lack of incentive to put yourself at risk, and to engage with combat, to engage fully with the game and to relax (a bit) and have FUN!.

i woud rather we make combat logging unnecessary and pointless, rather than simply prevent it. alt-f4 is a symptom, it's not the actual problem.

[nic0 14]

Whaat, getting high-end gear is already way too easy. If anything it should be made a lot rarer, dying SHOULD mean a lot. Making gearing up easier is the worst possible way I can think of to avoid combat loggers.

if you do it legit, and on your own, then getting high-end loot is *not* easy. you need to run around constantly to find crashed helis, and even then all you're likely to find are fn-fals and other interesting but redundant weapons. to do this with any hope of consistent success, you'd need to play low-pop servers where your risks are mitigated. finding a gillie or an as50 or NVGs takes a lot of time or a lot of luck (luck which you have no guarantee of repeating after you're killed and have to do it all again).

i'm suggesting that getting to a basic and interesting level of kit should be made easier, and that (unless you can save it someplace semi-safely) hard/very hard to find and overpowered gear should be removed.

another example - if NVGs were more common, we'd all play on nigh-time servers more often. who bothers to do this, other than those with NVGs or those who know the map backwards and want to gearup safely?

[Inception. 9443]

But then where's the end-game content?

[nic0 14]

But then where's the end-game content?

a good question. there *is* no endgame content now. if the endgame is getting a gillie or an AS50 or NVGs, what do you do now? logout and go play battlefield?

my concern is that acquiring this loot *does* end your game to a certain extent, in that it alters your gameplay and your level of engagement. you might try sniping with your AS50 for a while, but actually you can do that just as effectively with most other weapons if you choose a good spot. and it's not a very positive play-style.

dayz doen't need an endgame. you've got just as much chance of survival with a can of beans and an AK as you do with a full pack, NVGs, gillie, AS50 and so on - but, when you have those cool things, you don't have as much fun as you do when you're bouncing around cherno with your AK, looking for matches!

[Inception. 9443]

a good question. there *is* no endgame content now. if the endgame is getting a gillie or an AS50 or NVGs, what do you do now? logout and go play battlefield?

my concern is that acquiring this loot *does* end your game to a certain extent, in that it alters your gameplay and your level of engagement. you might try sniping with your AS50 for a while, but actually you can do that just as effectively with most other weapons if you choose a good spot. and it's not a very positive play-style.

dayz doen't need an endgame. you've got just as much chance of survival with a can of beans and an AK as you do with a full pack, NVGs, gillie, AS50 and so on - but, when you have those cool things, you don't have as much fun as you do when you're bouncing around cherno with your AK, looking for matches!

I know, but if scripters and duping was fixed, rare items would give people objectives that spanned of a long period of time.

But yes, I literally do log out and go play BF. :D

[Mav1976 10]

tell me your thoughts...

having played the game for about a month, i've noticed the following about having high-end loot - it ruins my game and make things a lot less fun.

it's not just me. we hear a lot (a LOT) about combat logging, alt-f4 and so on. people logout at the slightest provocation rather than die. why? because they don't want to lose their high-end loot. and why would they want to lose it? it's such a pain in the arse to get it all back, and such an effort to get it in the first place.

now, part of the draw of the game was always, for me, the feeling you get of excitement while simply running through an open field - the terror of suddenly being killed and losing everything in one go. it grounds you in the game.

but, and this is important, it also makes you play like an asshole most of the time. low-pop servers, staying out of towns. avoiding conflict. alt-f4.

i know this isn't everyone - some of you play "properly", happy to lose your gillie, AS50, NVGs, all that stuff, and happy to now have to spend the next few weeks searching for it all again (and, of course, you don't have a friend who can resupply you - it's all down to you, right?). well - i admire your commitment.

but most people, and hence the bitter complaints about combat logging, don't play that way. i don't play that way. i get easily spooked as soon as my gear gets good, and my enjoyment suffers as a result. i stay away from towns, never fire a shot for fear of being heard, never engage a tango.

i realised this yesterday when someone blew my head off (in the middle of nowhere, near-empty server, kinda suspicious but what-the-hell) and i lost my DMR, AS50, gillie, the lot. i felt like giving up.

then i logged back in, found an AK at balota, had someone try and kill me; and instead of running, or logging, i engaged and had the best 10 minutes of play in dayz i've had in about 2 weeks. it was a revelation. nothing to lose, everything to play for, incredible gaming. i even killed the guy, except he combat logged because he had good gear!

having the high-end loot adds the fear and panic into the game, but it kills the gameplay. not for all - not for you, maybe, but it kills it for enough people to make combat-logging and hacking endemic and that, overall, kills the entire game.

i say we should make the high-end loot much easier to find, or remove it entirely. give people choice, but don't have things that are so rare as to change your level of engagement with the game. or make it possible for you to save things that you can keep beyond death. combat logging will be a thing of the past, and the towns and cities will be reinvigorated again.

You didn't get the game, or?

What would happen, if this szenario becomes true? How would you act?

In fact, the only thing, which pisses me off, is the fucking teleport cheat. Oh no not the only thing, there are kiddies, who can spawn all items and vehicles. And the one who killed you in the middle of nowhere, was a teleport cheater or just a survivor, and you had bad luck. Happened to me and some of my buddies more than one time. So expect the unexpectet. Live with it.

[nic0 14]

I know, but if scripters and duping was fixed, rare items would give people objectives that spanned of a long period of time.

But yes, I literally do log out and go play BF. :D

i'd love rare items to be an incentive and a long-term objective, but losing everything at death mitigates that.

remember that the main question you ask yourself when leaving the relative safety of the forest to loot a building or a town is, "is there any sort of chance that anything in there that will offset the risk of losing my existing kit?". if the answer is "no" then you stay in the forest and move on.

but when that even applies to crashed helis, when it applies to a dead player's body, then you've lost something. you never leave the safety of the forest, or stop your finger hovering over alt-f4, or whatever you need to do. it's boring!

[nicksbrain 0]

I agree with OP. Now that I have AS50, ghillie, all the nice stuff, I'm a pussy and tbh don't enjoy dayz as much as before (I play it for a moth now)...

I think a logout timer would be great (ALT+F4 and you're still there for 20 secs, or properly select "logout", which cancels if you move)...

I guess I didn't get lucky with my first chopper, it killed my game ;)

Not that bad, I'm just afraid when I'm gonna die (cuz I WILL eventually)...

Edited September 19, 2012 by nicksbrain

[nic0 14]

You didn't get the game, or?

What would happen, if this szenario becomes true? How would you act?

In fact, the only thing, which pisses me off, is the fucking teleport cheat. Oh no not the only thing, there are kiddies, who can spawn all items and vehicles. And the one who killed you in the middle of nowhere, was a teleport cheater or just a survivor, and you had bad luck. Happened to me and some of my buddies more than one time. So expect the unexpectet. Live with it.

i agree with your post, but my concern is that "bad luck" is easier, much easier, to engage with when you have less of a slog to get all your "rare" kit back. and engaging and embracing bad luck is part of what makes the game fun.

i know there has to be a balance - you have to lose something to death otherwise it's meaningless. but this isn't balanced right now.

like i said, i am having the most fun right now, with one mid-range gun i found in my first 5 minutes of play. the last few hours have been the best i've played - no rare kit, just one gun and some beans. i'm engaging players and taking risks and enjoying myself.

[DemonGroover 8836]

So true, so true.

Once you have good gear, the enjoyment evaporates and you become super paranoid about losing your stuff.

Respawning however is a real release and lets you play without real fear because it doesnt really matter if you die.

I am at the point now with another character where i am starting to look over my shoulder even on low pop servers. I am seriously considering running down to the beach and giving all my gear to the first newbie i come across. I may even pitch a tent at the shore and put all my gear (minus startup stuff and possibly my hatchet) in it. Let newbies have the paranoia.

Me - i'll just nosy around Cherno without a care.

[fully 51]

Yes it should =)

I spend 2 weeks, Doing heli crash sites, cycling loot at NW airfield and Stray Sobor to find what I need.

I am having plenty of fun with this life. Lots of camping at the NW airfield.

Found a good camp site to the South West of the NWA, must be about 1/2 dozen ppl that visit this camp,

I love killing these dudes, if you wait about 45 minutes to an hour the same person will come back. Wait for him to re-gear and run towards NWA, I wish I had some bear traps.

Then they normally come back as 2 groups, put here gear in there tents and log off...haha - there was a coyote (8 slot) back pack in one of there tents, so there guns went into this back pack. =)

I'm having fun with a bunch of people, that don't know me. If I dident have this "top end gear" I don't think I would be doing this!

[DeafGuardian 0]

Would love to see at least AS50/M107 and the thermal-thingie to be gone from chernaruss. I'm okay with the other ones though.

This. Ive never seen anyone combat log on Lingor because its easier to find decent gear again when you respawn.

True. Had realy good gunfights on some lingor server where you spawn with an Mk 48. Sure, it's not meant to be that way, but this way each player has the same gear, nobody combatlogs cause theres no reason to do so, when you spawn with all the tools, a LMG with 200 Rounds and some silenced pistol. It's nice for change. Wouldn't want to spawn with this kinda gear all the time, but after all the tent-spreading and vehicle repairing and backing out of fights by spraying saw-rounds in the general direction of the people trying to stop me from doing so (trying realy hard not to kill anyone, at some point i'd like to have the hero-skin on me instead of my towelhead earned in selfdefense...), getting most of them to alt+f4... Well, it's just nice for a change of pace sometimes.