Serious questions for Rocket & Battleye

[crockett (DayZ) 41]

I've played on a lot of private hives and on a few of them with Admins that know their shit, they have fixed many things themselves that plague this game.

Weeks before tents were fixed "officially" I was playing on a private hive, that had fixed tents & vehicles so they saved properly. Yet took forever to get this working on the public hive.

Right now I've been playing on a server that has fixed all duping issues with the exception of tents. Meaning trying to dupe items in backpacks or by other means fails, but they just haven't been able to fix duping by tents at restarts. Yet officially this has yet to be addressed and anyone can dupe their AS50 at the drop of a hat long as they have a buddy to help therm or eat/drink unlimited amounts of time from a single item... No server restarts needed.

Now on to battleye..

Why is it, that I played on some German & French servers yesterday that have been running a 3rd party anti hack script. (http://gotcha-antihack.com/) That kicks/bans people for teleporting, spawning vehicles & having guns they aren't supposed to have.. yet battleye can't seem to do the same on the fly..

Why is it some single person that developed a anti hack can actually start making a dent in the hacking issues while the official supported anti hack fails and does much of nothing? Honestly me and 3 friends played on a server yesterday that while we did run into hackers we were actually able to play a good 2 hours before having it happen. (simply amazing considering we play on large servers that hackers prey on)

In two hours of being on one of these server I honestly must of seen 7 to 8 players kicked for having AS50 with thermal scopes.

I understand that this is yet another whine thread about hackers but it's questions that should be asked..the fact is random server admins & 3rd party coders are fixing things that should of been fixed ages ago officially.

Why can't this be done by the guys that are supposed to do it before there is no one left playing this mod? Honestly I don't have a lot of faith in shelling out more cash for a standalone if you guys can't get your act together now.. What will make anything different later, if you don't do these fixes now? You could build trust now by fixing things that can be fixed but instead you leave them for ages or simply ignore them. Why should I believe this will magically change once a stand alone is released?

Edited September 17, 2012 by crockett

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I'm no expert but I think fixing things on a private server is a lot easier than fixing bug's/hacking issues across persistent servers running off of the main hive. I don't see this as another whining post, you ask some interesting questions.

[SmashT 10907]

This is why I play on a private hive, the one I am playing on has duping fixed (including food duping) hacking pretty much eliminated, combat logging removed with the implementation of a log out timer, debug/hud icons working together and humanity not restarting, new vehicles, two hueys among other fixes/changes and as a result is constantly full, it was advertised on Reddit which you would think would make it a larger target for cheaters too but so far I haven't had any problems. http://www.reddit.co...t_to_be_played/

There are many other similar privates hives popping up too.

Maybe it's best that the mods future/updates etc become community driven so Rocket can spend all his time focussing on standalone, you can argue this is already happening.

Edited September 17, 2012 by smasht_AU

[Inception. 9443]

Why don't you contact BattlEye? I'd like to hear a response to some questions you asked; t'is indeed intriguing.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Inception.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I've yet to try a private hive. I stick to one main server with really good admins. In the last week I've only witnessed one hack but I know I'm lucky and it's a massive issue for most.

[jfishb8@gmail.com 4]

How do I find these kick ass severs?

[Inception. 9443]

I've yet to try a private hive. I stick to one main server with really good admins. In the last week I've only witnessed one hack but I know I'm lucky and it's a massive issue for most.

I personally prefer main servers with active, responsible admins who do know what they're doing. This way, I can use other servers with my character as well.

[christopherwright_75@hotmail.co.uk 109]

My opinion is that the duping issues wont be solved in the public hive, the devs simply dont care they want to get standalone done, while this is understandable its also a dangerous play as it annoys your future customerbase (for anyone going to shout "alpha" go swallow some cyanide and do the world a favour).

The anti cheat thing. Battleye has to work for all of ARMA 2 not just dayz so it cant kick for doing things that may be allowed outside of DayZ, that said I am of the opinion battleye is unprofessional and basically crap in that it was never very effective and DayZ has simply highlighted this fact along with its clear inability to adapt quickly....... that said name any AC system that actually works well even if battleye bucked up the hackers have greater resources/cash at their disposal so will simply overcome.

[KaishiiSabaku 3]

Private hives seems attractive after reading this, indeed.

Might try it when I get back from college.

[puppetworx 474]

Battleye has to work on vanilla ARMA 2 and all mods so it cannot create rules just for the DayZ Mod that would end up breaking stuff in other games. Okay they probably could make DayZ exclusive rules but it's unlikely that BI have or will sanction Battleye with such a task for the mod.

Interesting link by the way OP. I've played on servers which drop everyone from the server if scripting is detected and it's very effective, has saved my life many times.

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

Some good question I would like to know the answers to. I have noticed the same thing on many an occasion. But while they are working on these issues I am glad as they allow me to enjoy it.

I think the main reason is due to the work on the standalone, a lot of things wont be done to the public Hive due to work on this front. and BE allows certain things because of the base DayZ is built up from. There are other Mod's beside DayZ and I'm sure others will need certain scripts to run properly. Just a case of nearest best thing that allows the original idea to work from. Rocket has said the Code can only be changed so much, hence the need for a standalone as a seperate entity.

Just theory really

[crockett (DayZ) 41]

This is why I play on a private hive, the one I am playing on has duping fixed (including food duping) hacking pretty much eliminated, combat logging removed with the implementation of a log out timer, debug/hud icons working together and humanity not restarting, new vehicles, two hueys among other fixes/changes and as a result is constantly full, it was advertised on Reddit which you would think make it a larger target too but so far I haven't had any problems. http://www.reddit.co...t_to_be_played/

Maybe it's best that the mods future/updates etc become community driven so Rocket can spend all his time focussing on standalone, you can argue this is already happening.

Yea, I'm not sure which server that one is, but I forgot about working Hud.. That's something else that was fixed on the non hive I was playing on.

Granted I can give a little slack on the hud issue as that was a bug that just started after that latest patch.. IMO it really should of been avoided by a little bite of testing prior to release of the last patch. (it should of been found before that patch was released but I can give a little slack on that one)

Edited September 17, 2012 by crockett

[enforcer1975 1111]

I'm no expert but I think fixing things on a private server is a lot easier than fixing bug's/hacking issues across persistent servers running off of the main hive. I don't see this as another whining post, you ask some interesting questions.

You only have one server to manage but you still have the same faulty database system to deal with so i think those admins just know which knobs they have to turn to make the game flow as it should. If even half the amount of energy would flow into the game / anticheat tools from the official side we wouldn't have hacking problems. If you could modify the mission on the official servers with a script that removes illegal weapons the moment they are equipped we would have less than half the problems, but then you risk to be blacklisted.

[pillerking@yahoo.com 72]

funny, we had the exact same discussion in TS yesterday.

"Serverlogs clearly show , when people create items or teleport themselves/others. Why aren´t these people autokicked/autobanned?"

The only explenation i could come up with is that BE can´t see which mod you are playing and some mods allow for teleportation and item creation.

I don´t know if that´s true but what other possible explenation is there ?

[exesgo@gmail.com 31]

Battleye is a third party program, and is not made by Rocket; Bohemia for the matter also.

[crockett (DayZ) 41]

I've yet to try a private hive. I stick to one main server with really good admins. In the last week I've only witnessed one hack but I know I'm lucky and it's a massive issue for most.

Honestly I used to rarely come across hackers but now it's almost as regular as playing the game.. Yesterday myself & 2 friends were killed by a guy at close combat range who was sporting a AS50 that he could fire as fast as he could click the mouse button. It was literally as rapid firing as the M14 I was carrying.

Prior to this we had a guy on a bike roll up to us that we unloaded full clips on and he just kept riding around playing Gangnam Style on direct. Granted this one was at least amusing..

After we died to the guy with the Semi Auto AS50, we meet up & were headed to Cherno and found quite literally ever vehicle in the game spawned on the coast at prigorodky.

Just now I logged in on a semi populated server (about 25+) and I was just running up the coast sporting a Lee Enfield when a guy comes up to me and spawns a Coyote Backback full of supplies & a silenced M9/M4A1 CCO SD with loads of ammo. (public server) I was in this server less than 15 mins and was already geared to the hilt.

On one side I honestly was looking forward to running into Elektro with a Lee Enfield and seeing how long I can survive & how many I could kill, but on the other hand I know I just lost all my stuff to a hacker yesterday so getting this somewhat makes up for the time I spent on that last kit that was instantly lost to no fault of my own.

I take the gear and run into Elekro, see geared out a guy entering the Cafe across from the store.. He comes out & he's carrying a AS50 so I killed him and loot his body and it's obvious the guy ran into the same hacker I did. Now I'm sporting a M4A1 CCO SD/AS50/Coyote Backpack/Ghille Suite and all the ammo and a basic supplies I needed.

All this in about 30 mins with almost no effort. When I play on (good) private Hives this type of gear is almost never seen, yet on public servers is a dime a dozen..

Edited September 17, 2012 by crockett

[crockett (DayZ) 41]

How do I find these kick ass severs?

A few that Iv'e played on that have Admins whom keep up with the servers can be found by searching.

Billy Mays Remembrance Foundation ( http://bmrf.me )

Rinaun.com private Hive servers (http://rinaun.com)

The Asylum (http://www.dayzasylum.com/ & http://www.dayzforum.com/index.php )

Each have fixed their own various things and some edit a few things to make gameplay more enjoyable.. (like Rinaun has changed vehicle spawns to be mostly motorcycles, ATV's & bicycles to stop the hoarding) The Asylum has a nice stats set up & Billy Mays has a very fast server and fixed a lot of duping problems.

Each of these have been pretty decent servers IMO with minimal hacking issues. I'm sure there are more out there as well.

Edited September 17, 2012 by crockett

[enforcer1975 1111]

funny, we had the exact same discussion in TS yesterday.

"Serverlogs clearly show , when people create items or teleport themselves/others. Why aren´t these people autokicked/autobanned?"

The only explenation i could come up with is that BE can´t see which mod you are playing and some mods allow for teleportation and item creation.

I don´t know if that´s true but what other possible explenation is there ?

You can't connect with mods...it will autokick you unless it's a blacklsited server. Problem is those hacks are triggered from outside the game.

[evoxtom 142]

For the hacking and anti cheat detection...

Seeing battleye is a third party, I'm guessing that it and BI are locked into a contract. This system was never intended for dayZ. It was brought along for a very trusting engine, which is ARMA.

To say battleye sucks because "it's not doing its job" seems like such a stupid thing to say. This is considering that battleye doesn't have to do jack shit about a MOD that wasn't even made by the company paying it.

Now that they are adjusting their systems to detect hacks IN dayZ seems more than sufficient effort. I think people completely ignore business sides of things.

Rocket can't go to BE and tell them to do a better job. They were there to protect a different game. DayZ makes ARMA do something that it technically shouldn't.

This is why private hives have more security and can do things without a contract limiting them. This is just my presumption and understanding.

[OrLoK 16186]

Hello there

above post is correct.

rgds

LoK

[rocket 16567]

We prefer people running private hives, although currently none of the private hives feed statistics into the DayZ website.

By people using private hives, it frees up the development of the project to actual design fun stuff in the game, and not solve networking issues etc...

[burn 0]

battleye is literally TWO (2) people.....that being said, they've done a hell of a job combating the rampant hacking IMHO.

[10bag 22]

We prefer people running private hives, although currently none of the private hives feed statistics into the DayZ website.

By people using private hives, it frees up the development of the project to actual design fun stuff in the game, and not solve networking issues etc...

What? You'd rather everyone was hosting and playing private hives?

Fair play - I'm not going to argue against that. I think open modding of the DayZ mod would give you more ideas and inspiration for standalone than you currently have, but it'd be nice to see some officially supported private hive solutions now you've changed your mind about whether private hives are OK.

There's plenty of private hive solutions out there which work, but they're all different and each has its own pros and cons. It'd be nice if all the private hive modders and admins could be on the same page.

The idea of an official private hive solution which actually provides you with stats would make more sense to me than whatever 1.7.3 is likely to contain. IMO the mod can't open up soon enough - there's 1000s of talented modders out there just itching to mod your mod.

[crockett (DayZ) 41]

For the hacking and anti cheat detection...

Seeing battleye is a third party, I'm guessing that it and BI are locked into a contract. This system was never intended for dayZ. It was brought along for a very trusting engine, which is ARMA.

To say battleye sucks because "it's not doing its job" seems like such a stupid thing to say. This is considering that battleye doesn't have to do jack shit about a MOD that wasn't even made by the company paying it.

Now that they are adjusting their systems to detect hacks IN dayZ seems more than sufficient effort. I think people completely ignore business sides of things.

Rocket can't go to BE and tell them to do a better job. They were there to protect a different game. DayZ makes ARMA do something that it technically shouldn't.

This is why private hives have more security and can do things without a contract limiting them. This is just my presumption and understanding.

Then severs shouldn't get black-listed for running a 3rd party anti-cheat system designed for dayz and banning players they catch cheating. Are you honestly going to sit here and try to tell me that hackers can't tele-port themselves to positions in Arma II or see every player on the map? Not to mention invulnerability? Do you really think these cheats end with DayZ?

It's in BE's own interest to help stop the cheating. Likely the only reason these cheats haven't spread into other Arma mods (if they haven't) is because most players play DayZ.

Edited September 17, 2012 by crockett

[enforcer1975 1111]

We prefer people running private hives, although currently none of the private hives feed statistics into the DayZ website.

By people using private hives, it frees up the development of the project to actual design fun stuff in the game, and not solve networking issues etc...

If you really prefer private hives ( small controllable environment with regluar players, hacking will be dealt with swiftly ) you should make it easier to set up a private hive server and think about how to link those up with the stats monitor later. If you watch the monitor over weeks it looks like the mod is dying.