Standalone Poll: First Person Only?

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Incorret on most things. A bullet fired parallel to the ground will fall the instant it exits from the muzzle. Nothing gives it upwards lift. A bullet only "rises" when the bore is angeld upward. It is constantlly forming an arc the moment it leaves the muzzle.

And you were not clear enough, or i did not read correctly, your previous example about compensation at 25-200yards. You gave me a different impression to what you just said.

And I'm not suggesting people should be forced to play I gave arguments for and against. Initially i said i would like FPV only. Then in my last post i said i don't mind. I made this thread two months ago? When FPS only servers were playable and in large numbers. I'd don't feel as strongly about it as i do now but that still does not change the sniper/camping imbalance, which on balance isn't enough to lock the game in FPV.

But hey I guess I really don't have a clue...

I noticed one small problem with what I said, my apologies. "You have to aim above" That, is incorrect. I should have proofread. You actually have to aim below, not above.

So with my example. You zeroed your weapon at 300 meters, but you are trying to hit a target below 300 meters. We'll just go with a 150 meter target. In real life, the bullet will arc when it exits the muzzle. Not at first, but gradually. So if you aim at a 150 meter target in the head, you will miss. It will overshoot the target. So you have to aim down.

As far as ballistics go, I'm glad Dallas posted such a simple "dummy" picture. Does that bullet not arc? If a bullet arcs, wouldn't that mean that the bullet rises, and drops? If you pointed that weapon parellel to the ground, would that change anything to the arc of the bullet? It wouldn't hit a "300m" target, as it suggests, but it would still rise, right? Not begin descending to the ground the moment it exits the muzzle.

What that simple picture also demonstrates, and again my apologies, is what I was trying to explain (but used the wrong term of aiming above, and now aiming below) is that your zero might be zeroed for 300m, but you can't just aim at the same spot throughout the range and still hit your target. Where as in this game, I have no problem taking a weapon that is zeroed at 300m, and hitting anything below that, in the same locations. IE, I can aim center mass on a 50, 100, 150, 200, 250 target using the 300m zero and hit all of the targets.

There are MANY properties of ballistics, one of the most important being VELOCITY. Bullets don't lose velocity as soon as they exit the muzzle (suggested by Trizzo the Shooter/hunter), they actually gain velocity initially (bullet rise) and then from then on gradually begin to lose velocity (bullet drop) ... Oh what do I know... Dallas plays Arma 2 so he is an expert in weapons, and Mr. Trizzo thinks bullets only arc in a downward direction unless the muzzle is pointed up in the air.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Dreygar

[flypp 21]

Bullets don't lose velocity as soon as they exit the muzzle (suggested by Trizzo the Shooter/hunter), they actually gain velocity initially (bullet rise)

404 Physics knowledge not found.

Friction mate. The bullet ONLY initially rise because the barrel is pointed up. As soon the bullet leaves the muzzle, friction + gravity do their job.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Damn it man, I'm a sparky not a physicist!

Edited November 14, 2012 by Chabowski

[Heiduk 265]

In a rifle, when the bullet leaves the barrel (not touching the sides), doesn't that mean there's less friction?

Yes, but it doesn't matter. After the bullet leaves the barrel basically the only forces acting on it are air resistance and gravity. All it can do is slow down and fall to the ground. If your bullets are speeding up or starting to float after you fire them it is because of magic not physics.

A slightly more legible version of ballistics for dummies:

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

404 Physics knowledge not found.

Friction mate. The bullet ONLY initially rise because the barrel is pointed up. As soon the bullet leaves the muzzle, friction + gravity do their job.

Wow, you and everyone who supports you and the others theories must be highschool drop outs. I swear the lack of intelligence in these forums is nothing but astounding; it doesn't surprise me.

I guess golf balls don't gain velocity, rise, etc... because of friction as well? How fucking moronic you people are.

[Shadow Man 142]

I guess golf balls don't gain velocity, rise, etc... because of friction as well? How fucking moronic you people are.

So, after a golf club hits the ball you're saying it accelerates? Can you tell me what force is making the ball accelerate AFTER it leaves the club?

[martin_hjerpe@hotmail.com 22]

Wow, you and everyone who supports you and the others theories must be highschool drop outs. I swear the lack of intelligence in these forums is nothing but astounding; it doesn't surprise me.

I guess golf balls don't gain velocity, rise, etc... because of friction as well? How fucking moronic you people are.

Go back to school, learn the laws of physics.

Golfballs do rise but they don't gain velocity. Your aggression shows that you are afraid to admit that you are wrong.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

You all fail to realize that bullets are designed to be aerodynamic and with increase speed creates lift. You all have a disregard to physics. It's why two points on your zeroing match (25m/300m) but anything inbetween is off. Ie, the same sight picture on a 150m target will hit ABOVE the aim point.

Also, the M16 is designed to hit a 300m target. Barrel length, round choice, etc. The gun can be completely parallel to the ground and hit a 300m target, and when shooting at a 600m target there is only a slight change in the elevation knob. You don't have to raise the barrel 6 inches to hit a 600 m target... but I forgot, you all are experts.

You DO have to make huge corrections when shooting things like an M203 because the mass/weight/velocity of the round.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Go back to school, learn the laws of physics.

Golfballs do rise but they don't gain velocity. Your aggression shows that you are afraid to admit that you are wrong.

You do realize what velocity is right? You're suggesting that a ball does not speed up during flight? I guess it's going 140mph as soon as you hit the ball... Maybe you should go back and study physics.

ve·loc·i·ty

   [vuh-los-i-tee] Show IPA

noun, plural ve·loc·i·ties.

1.

rapidity of motion or operation; swiftness; speed: a high wind velocity.

2.

Mechanics . the time rate of change of position of a body in a specified direction.

3.

the rate of speed with which something happens; rapidity of action or reaction.

What... a ... moron.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Dreygar

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

So, after a golf club hits the ball you're saying it accelerates? Can you tell me what force is making the ball accelerate AFTER it leaves the club?

Its own momentum (from compression) + angular momentum (from spin)

EDIT: RE: Bullets - Friction reduces the velocity of the round, but if it had the same momentum at the moment it left the barrel, under less friction, it would still be accelerating.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Chabowski

[Shadow Man 142]

Its own momentum (from compression) + angular momentum (from spin)

The decompression of the ball can only accelerate it while its still in contact with the club. As soon as it is not touching, any remaining decompression will act in opposite directions to the centre of the ball. Thus no more accel. Whoops, slightly off topic...

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

We could go into back pressure, humidity, temperature, atmospheric pressure, powder, round type, barrel length, etc.... but the point is... The bullet will accelerate initially, reach its max velocity and then begin to slow down.

[flypp 21]

Dreygar, stop trolling. The "aerodinamic" shape of the bullet is the same from top that from botton. The shape of the bullet is meant to minimize air resistance. Don't compare with plane wings, whitch are made to create a low-pression flow over the wing and a high pression flow below to rise the wing.

In the case of a bullet, the pression of the air flow above and below are exactly the same= no rise, no drop. Also, the bullet spins to gain stability (gyroscope effect) preventing the bullet to tilt and then rise, down or deviate in any direction.

Arging about bullets rise because of their aerodinamic shape is just insulting.

Edited November 14, 2012 by flypp

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

The decompression of the ball can only accelerate it while its still in contact with the club. As soon as it is not touching, any remaining decompression will act in opposite directions to the centre of the ball. Thus no more accel. Whoops, slightly off topic...

... Inertia.

[martin_hjerpe@hotmail.com 22]

The decompression of the ball can only accelerate it while its still in contact with the club. As soon as it is not touching, any remaining decompression will act in opposite directions to the centre of the ball. Thus no more accel. Whoops, slightly off topic...

That is how I think too, someone please go ahead and prove me wrong, if you can.

This is just making me more and more confused.

I'm not going to accept something without proof, I've made that mistake before.

[Shadow Man 142]

... Inertia.

What about it? Also momentum is not a force that can accelerate anything. With no physical resistance of any kind to a ball or bullet, its velocity(after its initial accel) will remain steady and not continue to increase. This is its momentum.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Dreygar, stop trolling. The "aerodinamic" shape of the bullet is the same from top that from botton. The shape of the bullet is meant to minimize air resistance. Don't compare with plane wings, whitch are made to create a low-pression flow over the wing and a high pression flow below to rise the wing.

In the case of a bullet, the pression of the air flow above and below are exactly the same= no rise, no drop. Also, the bullet spins to gain stability (gyroscope effect) preventing the bullet to tilt and then rise, down or deviate in any direction.

Arging about bullets rise because of their aerodinamic shape is just insulting.

I guess we would still be shooting balls with this assumption. I guess you're on team bullets don't rise too? There are MANY factors that affect the trajectory of a bullet, being more aerodymanic allows the round to travel faster and overcome some of the negative factors of its flight. So how does that NOT help?

[jan_f_w 23]

1st person only

but I highly doubt that this will make its way into dayZ standalone due to the fact that there are too many survivors out there which somehow "need" 3rd person; but each to their own

[OrLoK 16182]

Hello there

Ballistics....how does it work?

More to the point are we not a little offtopic?

Perhaps ballistics needs its own thread?

Back on topic, 3rd and first person IMHO should be server set. Let folk play how they will.

Rgds

LoK

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

We can debate this all day long, and it has been debated a thousand times over. Though there is no way a bullet can hit a 25 meter target, and a 300 meter target at the same point, but can completely miss a 150 meter target when aimed at the same point; if the bullet does not rise during its flight.

[ComboBreaker 9]

Remove 3d person altogether.

Why?Peeking around borders when lying near the edge of the hospital roof (In Cherno or Electro) gives you an amazing view,while you are completely invisible to other players, even if they are actually checking out hospital's roof,expecting an ambush.

If this is not a valid reason,then I dont know what is.

[Shadow Man 142]

We can debate this all day long, and it has been debated a thousand times over. Though there is no way a bullet can hit a 25 meter target, and a 300 meter target at the same point, but can completely miss a 150 meter target when aimed at the same point; if the bullet does not rise during its flight.

I'd say that is absolutely correct. The crucial part being the direction of the barrel of the gun to create the correct trajectory.

[xfortune 91]

3rd person needs to be removed or changed. People being able to sit in a tree, behind a wall, etc. and third person pan around and get view of everything is extremely dumb.

Been playing on a 1st person only server for a few days now, I see 5x more action on it with 15 players than I do on a 40 man 3rd person enabled server, because people have to actually come out of cover to see other players. No more (or at least far less) roof camping, bush camping, etc.

[Heiduk 265]

You all fail to realize that bullets are designed to be aerodynamic and with increase speed creates lift. You all have a disregard to physics.

This just turned in to the best thread I've read on this forum in a long time.

I think you've missed one subtle point though. Bullets don't actually arc. They only appear to arc because you are using a spherical earth as your reference frame. This is incorrect. Despite what the mainstream media, and so called "scientists", claim the earth is actually flat. Once you have adjusted for this in your calculations it should be easy to arrive at the correct answer.

[dallas 5195]

This is not really addressed to Dreygar, because he's most likely a 12 yo troll, because obviously no one on the internet can be this fucking stupid.

The first thing you learn about firearms is basic safety, the next thing you learn about rifles is basic ballistics. As soon as the projectile passes the muzzle, gravity starts to affect the bullet. The only thing the bullet does is spinning to maintain stability and that's by design of the barrel's rifling. The sights on a rifle actually points slightly downwards, which means whatever you sight, your barrel aims above. By raising your rear sight, you're raising the barrel, making the shooting arch higher and the distance longer.