Why this mod is failing

[Tiger205 48]

OP hasn't found anything new but OP is right. The growing number of players means nothing, it just means there will be more idiotic cuntfucks on this forum and in the game saying qq or some other "cool" bullshit. The first few posts prove me right.

[Mega_Death 23]

This mod was meat to be a zombie survival game.

It is?

No.

It's a fail?

No.

It's going to fail?

Yes, if things remain the same, but it's an alpha, gameplay will be tweaked (i hope).

It may not be the game you think it should be but for others it is. Go back and read what ZedsDeadBaby wrote. That is the truth of the game.

There are a lot of people who bought Arma2 to play Arma2. This mod produces an aspect of PvP that most Arma2 missions do not.

You call it fail, many of us call it fun.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Mega_Death

[Never 237]

ZedsDeadBaby wrote.

Pulp Ficton was such a shit film.

[Izziee 128]

This mod was meat to be a zombie survival game.

It is?

No.

It's a fail?

No.

It's going to fail?

Yes, if things remain the same, but it's an alpha, gameplay will be tweaked (i hope).

It is a zombie survival game. It's also a sandbox and it's also what the player makes it to be. Just because you don't think it is, doesn't make it so. Today, I was surviving against zombies, there for, it's a zombie survival game.

I am glad you can predict the future and tell that this game will fail. The cold hard facts are this, the game has gotten bigger and more popular, it's already had copycats in the works (which seems to be for the casual players, so we can get rid of those whiners) and people are buying a whole different game for this MOD. It's also becoming standalone, and I'm quite sure Rocket has more facts and figures than you could possibly ever hope to have to make some hard analysis on what's going to happen. He also wouldn't go and make this if it were failing. Even if things did remain the same, it wouldn't fail (as in gameplay, bug's not getting fixed could end up damaging it) but there are always patches being rolled out so yeah, regardless, stuff is being done.

People do not understand one simple fundamental, it's a sandbox game, it is what YOU make it. Just because it fails for you (you = general sense), does not mean it fails for anyone/everyone else. Sandbox's have always been down to the player making their own enjoyment and if someone can't, the problem lies with them being one dimensional and quite frankly, a rather boring and uninteresting person but NOT the game.

[Izziee 128]

OP hasn't found anything new but OP is right. The growing number of players means nothing, it just means there will be more idiotic cuntfucks on this forum and in the game saying qq or some other "cool" bullshit. The first few posts prove me right.

Only in your own little mind.

The ironic thing is, all these whiners saying how bad the game is, are still here. That says more about you than anyone else.

[Mega_Death 23]

Every day another thread, another circular discussion going nowhere because the discussion is based upon a fundamentally flawed premise: that there are two types of people in DayZ - survivors and bandits.

Nobody ever wants to account for the fact that most players are somewhere in between.

I do all of the things people seem to claim they want from the "survivor" portion of this game - I travel with companions, I share food, water and equipment, I bandage wounds and apply blood bags and epi-pens, I defend my friends from zombies and players, I cooperate to build and repair vehicles, I search for high-value loot, I've explored every inch of the map, I help new players learn the game and acquire basic tools for survival, etc. I do all of this every day I play the game.

But, I do it with people I know and trust.

If I don't know you and don't trust you and you run up on my squad expecting a high-five and a hug? You're going to get whipped into a fine paste by my M249.

Is that a flaw in the game design? That I don't want to be best friends with every stranger that sidles up to me unannounced?

I say no. I say a flaw would be some system of arbitrary and artificial restrictions and rules that would force me to be friends with you even though I don't want to. There are reasons I don't have more friends than I do already, and I don't want to play a game that forces me to make more. The day rocket adds some mechanic to force me to team up with every Cheeto-fingered, Mt. Dew-swilling ne'er-do-well who plays the game is the day I retire.

I've tried cooperating with random strangers I meet in the game. They run when they should walk, stand when they should crawl, shoot when they should wait, approach when they should stay back, lack communication skills, basic terrain knowledge, map-reading skills, etc. This usually results in my death or the death of a friends from either friendly fire or a zombie or hostile player that was alerted to our presence due to the actions of this stranger. It's not worth it. I don't want to be friends with you, okay? I don't want to cooperate with you. I have my squad and we're full so go away or face the consequences, eh?

The real meat of the issue is that people aren't used to playing games where trust and reliability matter so much. In WoW if you get a random dungeon finder with some assholes who don't know what they're doing, big deal. You lose a bit of item durability and 45 minutes. Okay, no biggie.

In DayZ so much more is on the line. Many hours, days, months of play and survival.

I'm sitting on Day 48 with 1200 zombie kills and you want me to put that in the hands of any old jackanapes who pops his head up and says "friendly!"?

Not a fucking chance.

rocket can do all he can to support and encourage cooperation, but he can't "game design" you into human relationships. You have to find those yourself, work on them on your own and then use them in the game to your advantage.

Because it cant be quoted too often.

This is the game. If it's not what you expect then it's not the game for you.

You can play it as a solo survivalist and that makes it a far more challenging game. Surviving the zombies is easy enough. Surviving bandits is the challenge.

You could survive in the woods for weeks on end with 20-30 rounds, a hatchet, a knife, a couple canteens and matches. Almost no need to go to a town. But for alot of us...that's pretty damn boring and that would be a fail!

[SystemiK 366]

OP you keep calling this a game, but it's not. It is a portion of a game. Come back when it is a game and re-evaluate your position.

[Izziee 128]

OP you keep calling this a game, but it's not. It is a portion of a game. Come back when it is a game and re-evaluate your position.

Why invite him back? :(

[tfninja 8]

to answer op's problem.

the next step up is to increase the size of the maps and the player limit, probably to around 300 people would be optimal. increase the importance of towns, so theyre worth protecting, and make them interdependant, so trade must go on between towns for them to profit and be worth defending.

and then the game would be awesome. naturally youd get roaming groups of bandits, but also vagabonds, loners and most importantly, people grouping together to protect their town and make an effort to police the game, or atleast make certain areas more secure.

dying would still be bad but less of a problem, as if you were part of a community you could go back to that community and naturally they can help you a bit.

i know this is probably outside the scope of dayz, but dayz has made me really look forward to the possibility of this kind of game.

[Jahandar 5]

I've only been killed a few times by players, it wasn't a big deal for me, just part of the game.

I think most people just saw the title and first few lines of the OP and assumed this guy was just whining about getting killed from bandits (saying the game was failing didn't help his case), but he did actually have a decent point in that right now ultimately the game just funnels you into killing other players without many other options or reasons to seek an alternative.

I've managed to survive and live now and gear up and still have yet to murder anyone, but that could change at any minute.

It's all about risk vs reward. It's far more risky to be trusting, and far more rewarding to kill.

I think its a necessary part of the game, but it shouldn't be the end-all be-all and only interesting endgame that people seek out just for the sake of it, as it is now.

As it's alpha, I'm sure with the addition of more sandbox features, content, and game mechanics, things will even out in the future by providing more benefits and rewards to surviving in other ways, and perhaps even adding consequences and risk to the life of a bandit, whereas right now it's safe, and gives easy rewards.

For instance, Rocket might choose to implement mechanics that respond to a players loss of "humanity," such as putting them in the "shock" state after murdering an innocent to simulate how that would weigh on your conscience, or a lower max blood for repeat murderers. After all, our characters are just normal people, not soldiers trained to compartmentalize or serial killers who just don't care.

Yes, its alpha, that's why its the best time for people to talk about this stuff and make suggestions and give their opinions (even if you disagree), while all the decisions are still being made.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Jahandar

[hker 7]

Make friendly in the game is much more FUN, but very hard now.

your choise

Peoples just choose an easy way KOS, and think they are cool, tell you stop crying

I will play BF3, if i just want pvp

[Jakemyers 0]

Without bandits this game would be called " Running". bandits make you insecure to the point were you need to be careful. its the difference between checking your corners in cherno, and running through cherno with tons of zombies on you just collecting loot. ive played the game for awhile now, killing other players..........and being killed by other players seems to be the only thing that keeps the game fun for me.

[thewanderer 16]

This game is failing because bandits.

I stopped reading right there. Bandits or at least the threat of being player killed is one of the best aspects of the game Not its worst. Without it it would turn into a boring run past the pathetic zombies game. There is no real threat in the game apart from other players its as simple as that.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

I guess OP has all the user statistics.

[thelonewarrior 886]

Read this post:

It may interest you

Bandits are not winning, not anymore

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/42919-law-to-lawless-lands/

If you think this is your thing, contact the OP of the thread (oldtribe) and maybe you can become one of us

[myskaal 50]

Unique Players: 926,973

Failing eh?

[Tiger205 48]

Only in your own little mind.

The ironic thing is, all these whiners saying how bad the game is, are still here. That says more about you than anyone else.

Okay, so you're one of those cunts I see. Good to know - one more person on my "don't give a flying fuck about" list.

[Xianyu 820]

People seem to think I have a personal vendetta against bandits. I don't want bandits to be removed. Goodness no. Then the game would be boring as fuck. What I was trying to prove, through that entire block of text in my original post, is that the game funnels you towards banditry, and the community picks apart those that are not.

I can find any number of threads detailing this. Most recently, I saw a thread 'are all people like this?' or somesuch. Some guy was wounded, broken legs, no weapon. Asked in direct chat (text) for some help. Guy came out the building. Shot him in the head.

This is the mentality that leads to this game being a deathmatch, and ultimately dilutes the entire thing to the point where it's a bandit simulation more than a zombie survival game. I don't go to NWAF. I don't go to Starry. Why? because people like to camp there with sniper rifles JUST to kill other players. It's the only way they can 'have fun'. As I stated in the original post, it is both a flaw of game design, and community.

I do not want bandits to be gone. But I really, sincerely wish that the entirety of the end game content of this mod was not banditry. Bandrity begets bandrity. Once you've been killed once or twice, you stop being friendly. You stop allowing others chances to be friendly. You shoot first. I remember every bandit encounter I ever had. I can list them.

One, in the south-western coastal village. He was going to spawn kill me. Back when you started with makarov's. He had NVG's, an AS50, silenced M4, silenced M9, the lot. He was fully kitted out, and had nothing better to do than shoot noobs.

My friend, however, put a full clip of makarov in his face while he was planning to take me down. We took all his shit.

A little while later, Me and the same friend, with the same weapons. I was following him, after dark, and we went to loot Starry. We came across a group of three survivors. They all had NVG's. I tried to use flares, to blind them. Didn't work so well. My friend was killed, I was laying in the grass for a good three minutes waiting to see what would happen. Threw some flares, got up, died.

My third bandit encounter was at the NWAF barracks. Me and a different friend were looting, hear footsteps. guy contacts me in direct chat saying that he'd let us go. Right. I told him to come in if he liked. He logged out. I got to the end room in time to see his buddy server-hop into the room. Full clip of M14 later, he was dead. We left the server.

A previous time, I was at the barracks. Guy logged in in front of me, AS50, full kit. I didn't want to kill him cheaply. My mistake. He fired, killed me with one round.

But do you want to know what experiences banditry has SHAPED?

Every single time I've sat in the bushes and watched another player run past. Every single time I've said to myself 'fuck cherno, I'm not getting sniped tonight'. Every single time I've avoided NWAF because I KNOW it's a hotbed for snipers. Every single time I've seen zombies in the distance and avoided the town completely.

Perhaps the crowning moment of my survivor interaction came at the radio tower in the centre of the map. Big red and white motherfucker. I was up there, looting around, with my newly found DMR. Saw two guys down below. One of them had aggro'd at LEAST five zombies. I took down four of them with my DMR, and was in the process of taking down the fifth for them, when the second survivor I didn't see shot and killed me. One round.

That was probably the moment I decided to stop actively helping other survivors in visual range.

He might have shot me because he panicked. I dunno. Thing was, I had to start over. Again. Because I decided to help.

So through game design, and the choices of the players, people who help are actively punished, and the people who kill, are actively rewarded with loot. With no repercussions at all. You can't even get their names and go 'hey, watch out for that guy! He's killed before!'

For about the last month, I haven't fallen prey to a bandit. I've killed one, but not been killed BY ONE. But every single interaction I've had with other survivors has been shaped by bandits. And shaped by the knowledge that, even if I was bleeding out, with broken legs, and no weapon, the average survivor in this game will STILL go out of his way to kill me.

And that is knowledge that we all carry.

[Swoosh Bear 12]

QQ more. TL;DR

Get friends to play with and problemo solved. No one wants to fuck with a squad of 4 armed dudes running around. Most people don't at least.

[amudkipz 46]

Rocket said the bandits were winning because they are far more organised and I completely agree.

Survivors need to get strong, there are ways to make friends in this game, you can be 'safe'.

You sound like a nice guy but do you know how ridiculous you sound?

Why not wait for the actual fucking game before criticising the lack of 'End-Game' and try not take things so seriously on a underdeveloped mod.

The problem is bandit groups shoot any non-group member while non-bandits have to be shot at first to know whose a bandit.

[finalstraw 193]

Ok, some you got some good kit... now go survive. Seriously, see how long you can stay alive. It's not as easy as it sounds, make that an objective/challenge.

[mcprohosting-matt 1]

I agree with your statement that almost all players become bandits, this is correct.

The reason they do it is because it's fun (I'm a bandit), it's the only thing that adds to the game at this time, plus, to be honest, I think it almost adds to part of the 'noobs', as you call them's game as it keeps them on their toes.

Additionally, Rocket has said in a recent interview he does indeed see this as a problem and is working on adding new things, like building underground bases.

Breaking the rules here, but it's an alpha.

[HazyMoon 3]

People seem to think I have a personal vendetta against bandits. I don't want bandits to be removed. Goodness no. Then the game would be boring as fuck. What I was trying to prove, through that entire block of text in my original post, is that the game funnels you towards banditry, and the community picks apart those that are not.

I can find any number of threads detailing this. Most recently, I saw a thread 'are all people like this?' or somesuch. Some guy was wounded, broken legs, no weapon. Asked in direct chat (text) for some help. Guy came out the building. Shot him in the head.

This is the mentality that leads to this game being a deathmatch, and ultimately dilutes the entire thing to the point where it's a bandit simulation more than a zombie survival game. I don't go to NWAF. I don't go to Starry. Why? because people like to camp there with sniper rifles JUST to kill other players. It's the only way they can 'have fun'. As I stated in the original post, it is both a flaw of game design, and community.

I do not want bandits to be gone. But I really, sincerely wish that the entirety of the end game content of this mod was not banditry. Bandrity begets bandrity. Once you've been killed once or twice, you stop being friendly. You stop allowing others chances to be friendly. You shoot first. I remember every bandit encounter I ever had. I can list them.

One, in the south-western coastal village. He was going to spawn kill me. Back when you started with makarov's. He had NVG's, an AS50, silenced M4, silenced M9, the lot. He was fully kitted out, and had nothing better to do than shoot noobs.

My friend, however, put a full clip of makarov in his face while he was planning to take me down. We took all his shit.

A little while later, Me and the same friend, with the same weapons. I was following him, after dark, and we went to loot Starry. We came across a group of three survivors. They all had NVG's. I tried to use flares, to blind them. Didn't work so well. My friend was killed, I was laying in the grass for a good three minutes waiting to see what would happen. Threw some flares, got up, died.

My third bandit encounter was at the NWAF barracks. Me and a different friend were looting, hear footsteps. guy contacts me in direct chat saying that he'd let us go. Right. I told him to come in if he liked. He logged out. I got to the end room in time to see his buddy server-hop into the room. Full clip of M14 later, he was dead. We left the server.

A previous time, I was at the barracks. Guy logged in in front of me, AS50, full kit. I didn't want to kill him cheaply. My mistake. He fired, killed me with one round.

But do you want to know what experiences banditry has SHAPED?

Every single time I've sat in the bushes and watched another player run past. Every single time I've said to myself 'fuck cherno, I'm not getting sniped tonight'. Every single time I've avoided NWAF because I KNOW it's a hotbed for snipers. Every single time I've seen zombies in the distance and avoided the town completely.

Perhaps the crowning moment of my survivor interaction came at the radio tower in the centre of the map. Big red and white motherfucker. I was up there, looting around, with my newly found DMR. Saw two guys down below. One of them had aggro'd at LEAST five zombies. I took down four of them with my DMR, and was in the process of taking down the fifth for them, when the second survivor I didn't see shot and killed me. One round.

That was probably the moment I decided to stop actively helping other survivors in visual range.

He might have shot me because he panicked. I dunno. Thing was, I had to start over. Again. Because I decided to help.

So through game design, and the choices of the players, people who help are actively punished, and the people who kill, are actively rewarded with loot. With no repercussions at all. You can't even get their names and go 'hey, watch out for that guy! He's killed before!'

For about the last month, I haven't fallen prey to a bandit. I've killed one, but not been killed BY ONE. But every single interaction I've had with other survivors has been shaped by bandits. And shaped by the knowledge that, even if I was bleeding out, with broken legs, and no weapon, the average survivor in this game will STILL go out of his way to kill me.

And that is knowledge that we all carry.

You die so you complain. Hmmm... sounds like you need to play Skyrim or something. At least change your profile name to "Trammy" or something along the lines. A lot of people seem to like this game even with the PvP aspect and all. Would I go out of my way to kill someone? Yes, because trust no one you don't know. This is something you learn as a child. "Don't talk to strangers." Thanks mom! She shaped me for gaming ever since I was 3.

[kentk94 194]

QQ more, faggot

Did you make an account just to make such a tremendous contribution to this thead?

[reuben5150 83]

I don't have anything better to do, so I'm going to kill you.

This ^

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/51345-after-220-hours-here-are-my-suggestions-for-dev-asap/#entry492161