Why this mod is failing

[kentk94 194]

I'm still waiting for one of these threads to provide some actual research and empirical data as to why this mod is failing.

You must not have received the memo.

In today's day and age of gaming, if one person thinks this game sucks, then said person takes it upon themselves to be the spokesperson for everyone. ergo this game is failing...

Unfortunately I've given up trying to understand these people, at first you try and then it's like you ate a bunch of ice cream really fast and your head just hurts.

[vukster@gmail.com 75]

it's a sandbox, so it's up to you to define your goals

You could play to see how many days you can survive without hackers killing you or zombies or other dangers.

You could play to see how many people you can save each day.

You could play to see how many bandits you can eliminate and make it a goal to post daily bandit kills.

The thing is, it's up to you, one of the most frustrating things about a sandbox is finiding a goal.

My personal goal is to learn the map better, I can now navigate cherno and electro much faster, I know where the key areas are located and I have run all the way from Kamenka to the NW airfield then back to the shore and up to the NW airfield, without a compass, without a map.

Follow the clouds, that always move east. The stars also help guide you at night.

Most video games have conditioned you with a reward system that is pre determined by the developers. Here in Dayz you are in charge of your own goals.

My record for survival is currently 7 days, I went from staying alive for a few hours, to 1 day, 2 days and now 7 days. I have survived being shot, having broken bones and crawling to a hospital to get morphene injectors. The thing that makes this game so fun is not about the gear at all, if it was I would be pissed every time I lost an item but I know I can get it all back. There isn't a single hacker that can mess with my will. You can take my beans but you can't stop my gaming.

[SergeantTeddy (DayZ) 1]

I did read the whole post, and i slightly agree, There should be something to do that doesnt have to do with killing players, there should be a challenge, LIKE FINDING FOOD AND DRINK, Now after awhile, you would think that pigs and sheep and cows would start going extinct, Right?

Cows dont take 3 seconds to respawn, if they wanted realism in this game, they would make food much harder to come by, but you wouldnt starve to death within 5 hours.

[Luke G 4]

QQ more. Crymore. Carebear. It's an alpha. Sneak. Harden up. tl;dr

Okay, now we got that out of the way, if you intended on posting any of those, a combination thereof, or something similiar, get the fuck out. Intelligent conversation only, and not your brownnosing bullshit.

This game is failing because bandits.

That's it. It's that simple.

But this stems from design problems, I guess. And basic human (read: fucktard) nature.

I don't have anything better to do, so I'm going to kill you.

So, you just snuck through the fringe towns. You got some sweet hardware from the deer stands or wherever it is you get your weapons. You have a sniper rifle, and an assault rifle in your backpack. You have matches, a hatchet, food, water, heat packs, morphine. You're all set. You have everything you'll ever need.

Now what?

You know what? nothing. There's not a single fucking thing to do once you get this gear. You can sneak past MORE zombies. Or you can shoot them. You can roam the wilderness looking for crashed helicopters and NVG's. You can search for better weapons. but what do you do when you get these weapons?

You go back to the coast and shoot the guys who just got the game. There's just nothing else to do. I personally, have never stooped to this level. I've killed a total of maybe four other players. And never have I laid in wait to shoot them. But this isn't about me. This is about every single other cunt that plays this game. You have nothing better to do once you get this gear, other than shoot PEOPLE with it. A .50 sniper rifle is not designed for use on zombies. Don't even try to pretend it is. It's used specifically for killing players.

Now, let's look at it from the other side. Say you're a person who genuinely wants to help, like, say, me. I like to help people who are in a spot of bother in this game. I was running cherno/elektro server hopping at one point taking down the barbed wire that server hoppers had been putting up to fence off pretty much every single bit of real estate in the cities.

But I don't interact with other players. Why? You're all bastards. Sure, maybe one in five or so won't shoot me on sight. The other four? I'm dead. I'm not restarting and losing all my shit because you decided to be an asshole.

This is the mentality that has ruined this mod, on BOTH SIDES. "It's just a game, let's be COMPLETE, UTTER ASSHOLES! :D " Don't even fucking pretend to me that that isn't what 90% of you bandits feel, deep down. It's just a game. None of it matters.

Well you know what? It's not a fun game.

It's not a fun game when no one will help you. It's just a long, hard slog through brutal mutated zombies with the running strength of an olympic athlete pumped full of speed and on a sugar rush, looking for loot with no 'end game' in sight. Your entire gaming existence comes down to surviving. That's what this mod should be. But there are people out there who don't WANT to survive. They just want to deathmatch. You've seen them. Fuck, a lot of you have BEEN THAT PERSON. Sitting on the sidelines of the NWAF with a sniper rifle waiting for some hapless 'noob' to wander into your sights. Camping in Cherno looking to shoot noobs.

'It's just a game'.

New players either convert to being a bandit, or stop playing. Or they group up with friends that they have to meet OUTSIDE the game, because ALL of you are two faced, backstabbing pricks, and then that's their clique. They don't step outside that zone.

The only interaction between player groups in this game is the whoosh of bullets flying past their goddamn faces. This is half the fault of the game design, and half the fault of YOU, the player.

Every time you camp in Cherno killing noobs, every time you snipe some guy who's arrived at NWAF for the first time. Every time you betray and backstab just for the sheer glee you get in your heart for being an anonymous cunt over the internet. This is what is destroying the game.

And don't even try to pretend it's not. Or next time you see someone who's actually armed, walk up to them and say 'friendly'. Go on. I'll wait.

Eventually, the supply of fresh-faced, naive recruits WILL diminish, at which point you'll all have what you want. You'll have a deathmatch in Cherno. You'll have a deathmatch at the NWAF. You'll have a deathmatch called Chernarus. Because that's the direction this community is DRIVING this game.

New players are forced away by the constant banditry, or convert to the banditry way of playing the game. I know I have. If I see a player, I don't help them. I hide. And if they see me, I shoot.

I was a fresh faced recruit once, hoping to actually play a survival game where survivors were pitted against bandits, and zombies fucked up everyone. But now, everyone is a bandit, and no one can be trusted. Ever.

This isn't a survival simulator any more. It's a bandit simulator.

And guess what?

The bandits are winning.

And to the people who will say 'hey, I'm not a bandit! I help people!' Yeah. Welcome to the 1% buddy. Congratulations.

For the blatently retarded. I don't get killed by bandits. I actually have no problem with bandits. I have no problem killing them, or avoiding them. I can kit myself up to full capacity without meeting a single other player. Woopity FUCKING do. What I don't like banditry or the bandits way of gaming, is what it's done to the game. No one tries to help others, and avoids all contacts with others, because 4 out of every 5 people play the game as a bandit and will kill you. If not for your loot, then just to be a cunt.

To the blatently retarded, obviously blind: I have NEVER BEEN SNIPED. I don't get killed by bandits! When I do, I suck it up and start over! Can I not make this more clear? This is not a complaint of 'bandits killed me waaah' it's a case of 'Bandit mentality killed what could have been an awesome game, waaaaah!'

Hmm... You seem to think there are no nice players on there? Have you ever been on /r/RedditRescueForce, me and my friend were greatly injured, needed food bad and needed blood transfusions. We posted on that. Within 20 minutes someone replied, gave a server, and surely enough, he showed up. I was providing sniper coveraage because we weren't sure whether or not he was trustworthy, but he gave my friend a transfusion, morphine, tons of food, so i came down into the house they were in, he gave me food, a blood transfusion, then when i offered him an AKM with two clips of ammo (his only weapon was a hatchet and a revolver), he ignored me and left. There are plenty of good people here on DayZ, you just need to know where to look.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Luke G

[Apelo 26]

In my humble opinion I think zombies need to be made much much more deadly (as soon as their fucking annoying pathfinding is fixed). The reason is that there is nothing to do. Once you have learnt how to survive, (took me 5 hours as soon as I started) the game becomes meaningless except for hunting and killing players as zombies pose no threat. There needs to be hundreds more zombies and zombies in forests and EVERYWHERE.

We need to stop people sprinting to the nearest cities on spawn by making the zombies lethal when sprinting away. Either make them hit you when they catch up or bring in fatigue.

Either way, the only thing that will make this game less PvP oriented will be in making the zombies more potent, forcing players to band together. Yes this is hard and easier said than done however with the right tweak it would encourage it. I think items need to be so much rarer than they are now which also makes people go into towns and making zombies more deadly means the more people the better.

Of course when large or semi large groups are made people will still resort to PvP and possibly even still kill on sight as we see now... and... I am just realising while writing this that no. This game can never change its PvP element unless the games basis changes.

Wow.

What a spontaneous train of thought I have.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Apelo

[orb917@hotmail.com 117]

I did read the whole post, and i slightly agree, There should be something to do that doesnt have to do with killing players, there should be a challenge, LIKE FINDING FOOD AND DRINK, Now after awhile, you would think that pigs and sheep and cows would start going extinct, Right?

Cows dont take 3 seconds to respawn, if they wanted realism in this game, they would make food much harder to come by, but you wouldnt starve to death within 5 hours.

things to do other than kill players you say?

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/3910-need-medical-assistance-we-can-help/

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/14818-freeside-trading-co/page__hl__%2Bfreeside+%2Btrading

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/37040-fort-friendly-social-experiment/page__hl__freeside

and they don't want realism and have explicitly stated that, they want authenticity.

[WisdomSnork 42]

players band together already, they just don't band together as one big PVE loving group, and they shouldn't!

It's going to stay kill on sight as long as someone has the option to kill you because they feel like it, and it should be that way.

It's false that there is nothing to do once you have gear, you CONSTANTLY need to be raiding towns for medical supplies and food and water. Not to mention any zombie that hits you ONCE can incapacitate you through a broken bone or bleeding.

PVP isn't broken in this game you just have to get better at avoiding other players if you don't want to fight. I reiterate, it's a PvP game! Not multiplayer, not co-op, but P v freaking P.

Many players will not understand the difference between realism and authenticity as every game since WoW has forced players to do everything in a particular way.

Example : a trade system rather than just dropping items on the ground and risking losing something or getting stolen from.

This is forced "realism" as opposed to the authenticity system that Day Z uses. This is exclusive to older games, so new younger players, used to no-contact dodgeball are going to have a hard time understanding that someone screwing them over has no consequences unless the players themselves create one.

We need to stop running to the devs like children asking for fairness.

Edited July 30, 2012 by WisdomSnork

[Jahandar 5]

With the ballistics, landscapes and damage inherent in this game... I don't think ANYONE goes around killing ANYTHING CoD style.

So the mechanics change, but the intent, reasoning, and style remains the same.

I do agree with almost everything in your post, but I wouldn't be so sure about this part.

yeah, I should've clarified with the word "most." Some people just want to watch the world burn. :)

Edited July 30, 2012 by Jahandar

[z-layrex 175]

You are of course absolutely right, but why continue to play if it gets you this upset?

[Aira 22]

@OP: Yes, i agree.

[Aira 22]

It's false that there is nothing to do once you have gear, you CONSTANTLY need to be raiding towns for medical supplies and food and water. Not to mention any zombie that hits you ONCE can incapacitate you through a broken bone or bleeding.

False, you don't raid towns, you raid camps that have medical supplys or kill people with it. The only one who is the looser is the one actually collecting it, though he might spend the most time of all of them by getting the stuff. This simply sucks. The selfcalled "pro's" kill so called "noobs" that have done the work for them. Is this the way it should be? If you are a new player and play the game it seems supposed to be, you're just a victim playing for the "big boys" cause they just wait till you gathered all the stuff to kill you. great experience for new players, really...

[Lusitanea 2]

Did you make an account just to make such a tremendous contribution to this thead?

You mad? QQ more, I kill for fun.

[Fefe (DayZ) 5]

There just has to be an incentive to the game, especially towards snipers.

Perhaps if you snipe a zombie, they will not respawn in the town as fast giving you more time to scout around. Perhaps if the goal was to travel to a safe place of the game where you can actually "survive" or win the game and just start all over with a bonus design of characters or looks (Think of the game Journey.)

One thing is for sure though, and it's that zombies aren't worth a bullet to the face or the health I lose from swinging my axe next to em compared to what players are worth. I ran into six dead players in Cherno, and managed to loot a rifle, soda and sardines, lotsa ammo for guns I dont need, blood bag, revolver, and an ALICE pack in a snap from them. What they died from was probably themselves.

Get me zombies that provide good ammo, food, water, or even a ranged weapon if I hit em with an axe or something, and I may have more of a reason to go on a lollipop chainsaw massacre.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Fefe

[rybo 171]

Trolling....ITS NOT, ITS YOU THAT IS FAILING.

As the Marines say it with a Dayz twist "Improvise, Adapt, Overcome, Survive" Bandits are bean bait..

[Jahandar 5]

you CONSTANTLY need to be raiding towns for medical supplies and food and water

If you can't survive in the wild without "constantly raiding towns" for food and water (even medical supplies) you're doing it wrong. The only reason to go back is for pvp or to gank noobs.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Jahandar

[CLewis 31]

I'm still waiting for one of these threads to provide some actual research and empirical data as to why this mod is failing.

Oh wait, you can't. Because it's not failing. There has been no significant decrease in players. Nothing. You have absolutely no proof what so ever to back up your claims. If someone does, I welcome them to actually make a post about it so that everyone can see it, analyze it, and these pointless threads about how the mod is failing can stop. Now I'll tell you what the problem is.

You don't like bandits. It's that simple.

This has nothing to do with game design or game mechanics. You, on a personal level, you not like them. Perhaps you inherently don't like the playstyle, perhaps you've been killed by them for what seems like endless amounts of times. Whatever the reason is, you don't like them and you're frustrated. And you know what? That's perfectly okay. It's okay to have an opinion, to strongly dislike something. That's the good news for you. The bad news is that you are entitled to absolutely jack shit. This is not your game. You and anyone you play with do not make up anywhere near a significant portion of the playerbase (and on that same note, the people who dislike banditry are seriously outnumbered as well) and the number of people that would stop playing this game if banditry was removed or altered to the point of not being fun is far more significant. You are playing someone elses game.

Asking to see some stats of one clame, and then clame something else without stats? (Your clame is probably right, if it's about people who want banditry all gone, but OP does not want that.)

A game is a work of art, just like a painting or a novel or a movie. An artist expresses, and you choose freely to partake in that work of art. Whether or not you enjoy it comes down to personal preferences and tastes. Fun is subjective and personal. You do not get to apply the label of "not fun" on something and all of a sudden it is officially not fun. Similarly, you do not get to come in tyo a forum and claim that a game is failing (especially when you have no evidence to speak of) when it clearly isn't. That's just not how these things work.

Saying The mod isn't failing at this early point of it's development could be premature. Right now its blowing up, I now that. But weirder things have happend, than a seemingly succes failing in the long run. (It looks like it'll be a succes to me too, but who knows?)

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but having one doesn't mean you're right. You are clearly in the minority in this situation. If you can't bring yourself to enjoy the game then that is unfortunate. However, the only option in such a case is to stop playing it. You obviously have a right to express your opinion on the forums, but making baseless claims doesn't help you at all. Especially when that basesless claim has been posted on the forums repeatedly, over and over and over again. If you are expecting not to get trolled, you're doing it wrong.

tl;dr

Fun is subjective and personal, you have absolutely no evidence to back up the claim that the mod is failing. This is how this mod works, and banditry is not going anywhere.

Agreed...

Edited July 30, 2012 by CLewis

[JDCollie 24]

Hey, he said the bandits are winning! Did you hear that guys? We're winning!

[lonewolfe (DayZ) 3]

you've got what? 220 square km to play in?, and bandits are ruining it for you? then you suck at concealment. I've not engaged or seen another player in like 3 days now and I play on a fairly high pop server.

methinks you're just bad and get killed.

L2play = stop crying

Your signature hurts my eyes

[WisdomSnork 42]

Every player is a bandit and every bandit is a player. These forums are not for you to come crying to every time you get killed.

There should be a 24 hour waiting period after death before posting your whiny complaint on this forum :/

[WisdomSnork 42]

you've got what? 220 square km to play in?, and bandits are ruining it for you? then you suck at concealment. I've not engaged or seen another player in like 3 days now and I play on a fairly high pop server.

methinks you're just bad and get killed.

L2play = stop crying

Exactly. If bandits are ruining your game then you are trying to pretend Cherno is Orgrimmar WAY too much. There is so much space you should never see another player unless you're planning to in all but the rarest of occasions.

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

But it's an alpha

[lonewolfe (DayZ) 3]

A lot of you are failing to accept this game is supposed to resemble a real life zombie apocalypse. Don't tell me you wouldn't kill a man who jeopardised your own survival in the real world.

New players either convert to being a bandit, or stop playing. Or they group up with friends that they have to meet OUTSIDE the game, because ALL of you are two faced, backstabbing pricks, and then that's their clique. They don't step outside that zone.

I was a fresh faced recruit once, hoping to actually play a survival game where survivors were pitted against bandits, and zombies fucked up everyone. But now, everyone is a bandit, and no one can be trusted. Ever.

It seems this guy can't handle the reality of the game, and is complaining no one can be trusted, and his right, because that's how it actually is these days.

Also, tl;dr you hate bandits, but then

I don't get killed by bandits. I actually have no problem with bandits. I have no problem killing them, or avoiding them.

Cheer up mate! Survival of the fittest ;)

[Bambo (DayZ) 42]

Looks like there's a lot of brownosing bullshit in the comments lol. I agree with the OP here. I really like the fact that this game tries (notice I said TRIES) to focus on reality, however, it is entirely unrealistic to have such a high percentage of the DayZ world population doing nothing but going around trying to fry other players. I don't think there would be many people in this scenario that would make the sole purpose of their existence committed to murdering people for sport. Just saying.

[Bambo (DayZ) 42]

A lot of you are failing to accept this game is supposed to resemble a real life zombie apocalypse. Don't tell me you wouldn't kill a man who jeopardised your own survival in the real world.

It seems this guy can't handle the reality of the game, and is complaining no one can be trusted, and his right, because that's how it actually is these days.

Also, tl;dr you hate bandits, but then

Cheer up mate! Survival of the fittest ;)

Nah I think he's actually saying that the source of all of the distrust and hatred on this game is caused by the high number of people that do nothing but kill for sport.

[Inception. 9443]

>implying this mod is failing

Hmm...nearly 1 million users. And yet you say it's failing? Your logic is beyond flawed.

The mod is thriving quite well.

Bandits are beyond easy to kill. The majority of them suck shit.

Also, bandits aren't the problem. Get your facts straight. It's the murderers that are, not bandits. Learn to differentiate.

I have over 100 murderer kills [although, the monitor labels them as "bandits"] on my secondary account within two weeks.