The PvP Discussion Thread

[theboneranger 1]

THAT'S what enrages me the most - knowing that there's an idiot whose only purpose is to ruin someone else's game and knowing that when I actually had some good equipment it'll be wasted because that idiot who just killed me won't even bother checking it out. It makes no sense and it really pisses me off.

It makes perfect sense. Your rage is why they do it. You know that. You coming here and proclaiming your rage only makes them want to do it more.

Here's the reality of the situation: Griefing, much like hacking, does not offer long-lasting satisfaction. This game is new, has a lot of buzz, and is in its infancy. In a few days, or weeks, or months even, the folks who are here to piss you off will get bored of pissing you off. They will move back to another game where it is easier to piss off more people with less time invested. Soon, the people playing this game will be the people who want to play to the scenario. You're always going to die, but I foresee soon it will be less senseless.

Still though, the solution to all these problems is to find people you can trust and avoid all others. I would point you towards the Survivor HQ and Bandit Campfire forums to aid in your search.

[Lexi (DayZ) 5]

Anywho - PvP is not THE problem. THE problem is people's mentality - they simply kill just to kill' date=' hell, they don't gain anything, they even loose ammunition. As I've stated in my first post in the original thread I got killed after helping two dudes fend off a mob of zombies. Why? Or I got killed by a retarded bandit when I had literally nothing on me beside two bean cans and a Makarov.

[/quote']

Well, you could have been a liability, trust issues are part of the game. Being afraid of you may have lead him to kill you, simply because he felt threatened. Though I'm sure some players are pants-on-head retarded, I know players who end up killing allies simply because they feel threatened by the presence of someone they do not trust. The urge to kill gets ever greater as the food starts to run out... or if you get a better gun than they do..

He didn't even bother to check my body people who saw it said. THAT'S what enrages me the most - knowing that there's an idiot whose only purpose is to ruin someone else's game and knowing that when

Well' date=' that's just their poor choice, team-up and get your mates to teach him a lesson. Also, that leaves the ability for you to head back and grab your stuff... if you choose to.

I actually had some good equipment it'll be wasted because that idiot who just killed me won't even bother checking it out. It makes no sense and it really pisses me off.

Well, idiots will always be present in some form or another, though it's really up to the player how they choose to play. Maybe they just wanted to get out of there before any other players heard the shots? I have been killed several times whilst sitting on a corpse, deciding on what to take. Learnt that if you find a corpse with good stuff in it, it's best to grab quickly and run.

[i wub pugs 16]

Click the first link in my sig to read how my group has been dealing with bandits, also my account of last night (all by myself) is on the first page too.

I died twice to the same guy and once to Zombies............. guess what, I kept playing because I had a goal to survive and have some good gear for the next session.

I spawned repeatedly near Drakon.......... within maybe 1 km area of coastline. This isn't ACE, you don't have range finders and a windage gauge, it's really hard to dial in range and shit with a CZZ in one shot. Even if I did get spawn camped I could run somewhere right away and probably make it. I've been playing for 3 days now and I've never seen spawn camping.

So until I believe it actually exists, I can't comment on "why people do it".

[metal_izanagi 3]

Eh, this will probably get easier once the people that just RDM get bored and go back to CoD, where that's the whole point. Sorry, but in what seems to really be trying to be a survival sim, just randomly killing people is not acceptable, at least not to me. Maybe I'm over-entitled to say that, maybe that makes me a person that should be ridiculed, but I'll stand by that opinion no matter what.

If you're going to RP a psychopath, RP them to the fullest. Be inhuman. Act inhuman. There aren't /that/ many people in the world that can be a "successful" serial killer, and act normal until they get a chance to kill, then pull the same act on the next person. If too many people try to be that type of person, it throws things off.

Heck, maybe even try RPing as different types of people every time you die. That sounds like it'd be really fun, actually, and makes me think that maybe wiping Humanity on death would be a good idea, or at least providing an option for it. Sure, some will abuse that and pretend they're RPing the same psycho every time, but bleh, people already abuse the spawn syetem, the disconnect system, etc. No doubt individual servers will take harder stances against that type of behavior over time, same as they're starting to take down ragequitters that don't give people a chance to loot them when they start to lose a fight.

It'd be neat if there were a way to have a "bio" for your character somewhere, so, if you wanted to be known as a vicious killer, someone people would avoid or try to initiate combat with if they felt lucky, you could, or if you wanted to fool people by pretending to be normal, you could, or if you were a peacekeeper, you'd give the unjust a reason to go after you, and possibly get killed themselves. Guess for now I'll use my forum sig for that. :P

[naizarak 41]

PvP is fine, but should be more balanced out. Personally I'd like to see scoped weapons removed completely, along with nvg's.

[The Killing Joke 43]

Sorry' date=' but in what seems to really be trying to be a survival sim, just randomly killing people is not acceptable, at least not to me. Maybe I'm over-entitled to say that, maybe that makes me a person that should be ridiculed, but I'll stand by that opinion no matter what.[/quote']

I don't think you're over-entitled, nor is your opinion something to ridicule. As long as people respect other people's rights to play how they want to, that's alright in my book.

TKJ

[Unkn0wn (DayZ) 2]

Negative humanity should just give you a red name, or some other 'minor' indication, then let players choose their own skin.

[Virfortis 111]

Sorry' date=' but in what seems to really be trying to be a survival sim, just randomly killing people is not acceptable, at least not to me. Maybe I'm over-entitled to say that, maybe that makes me a person that should be ridiculed, but I'll stand by that opinion no matter what.[/quote']

I don't think you're over-entitled, nor is your opinion something to ridicule. As long as people respect other people's rights to play how they want to, that's alright in my book.

TKJ

You're uh...you're new to this whole internet thing huh?

In the PvP crowd, no one's opinion is valid except their own. It's hard to adapt to an exploit of the game mechanics, but try telling that to those that have "never had this problem" and they just think players are soft.

This may be an adapt or die world, but a game exploit is still a game exploit, hands down.

[metal_izanagi 3]

While that may be true for some people, in TKJ's case especially, they seem very capable of not immediately shutting down another person's opinion for no reason.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

i think a lot of people are forgetting what kind of game this is

DayZ was designed to be impossibly cruel' date=' dark, and brutal. It was not designed as a game it was more of an experiment, I prefer the term "anti-game" - in other words the mechanics are not designed to be balanced, or offer a way out for different situations. These are things game designers normally take care with.

I discussed this with the our team members at great length of many arguments, the idea behind safe zones. The eventual consensus was that it went against the ethos of the project. This whole concept, and the reason it "works", is that there IS no safe zone (unless you make it). Your actions have real and brutal consequences. There are no game designed safety nets.

It is the kind of system/environment that will sometimes make you want to punch the computer screen. But with that kind of risk, comes great emotional reward when you carry something off. The sniper you describe - there are people like this in the world, and in the breakdown of order I can bet that there would be people who would sit on a roof and shoot people "just for the lulz".

The system makes no judgement on player actions, and this is one of the only real rules that was adopted for the development. While consequences may occur for a particular action (e.g. humanity loss), no judgement is implied or placed on that behavior. Beyond hacks, and misuse of exploits, regulating player behavior is not a scope of this project. If players, themselves, wish to group together and attempt to regulate the behavior. Well, that's entirely up to you.

This kind of activity is not for everyone. It really is more of a social experiment than a game. There is no intention to change that, if you dislike the PVP, then I would recommend playing Dynamic Zombie Sandbox or Celery's excellent Chernaus Apocalypse - there is no point in these being recreated through this mod.

Why make something that has already been done?

[/quote']

so for people that cant handle players killing for fun this isnt the game for you

[metal_izanagi 3]

That's cool, but maybe instead of trying to turn people away from the mod(not a game, it's a mod), you should join one of the groups that's trying to make the game a bit easier for new players, and not full of rooftop snipers? There's a militia thread in the survivor forums, and once that takes off, you'll start seeing consequences for people killing at random, and people picking off the bandits that sit on cranes sniping folks.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

That's cool' date=' but maybe instead of trying to turn people away from the mod(not a game, it's a mod), you should join one of the groups that's trying to make the game a bit easier for new players, and not full of rooftop snipers? There's a militia thread in the survivor forums, and once that takes off, you'll start seeing consequences for people killing at random, and people picking off the bandits that sit on cranes sniping folks.

[/quote']

i dont want the game to be easier though, i like that its difficult and not noob friendly

[metal_izanagi 3]

Well, thanks for making that clear. I'm sure you'll get a lot of love for that.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

i guess from people that are clearly playing the wrong game

[metal_izanagi 3]

Because you're obviously the judge of that.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

if you disagree with the developers stance on the direction of the game and dont enjoy playing it then yea.. in my opinion you are playing the wrong game

[The Killing Joke 43]

"Girls, girls! You're both PRETTY!"

:D

TKJ

[jordnz 102]

"Girls' date=' girls! You're both PRETTY!"[/quote']

This, hahaha.

[Dinnj 4]

Greetings to all survivors whom are whining about the PvP system of Day Z.

I am a bandit. I shoot everyone I see on sight indiscriminately.

You say this is not a realistic representation of what would happen in real life. The only roughly accurate simulation we have of the real thing is this mod. The evidence you are being presented with by this 'social experiment' seems to disagree with your care bear attitudes.

Why must we whine constantly about how awful it is when we die in a game? We already know the devs will not hold our hands. Woe to us all.

Why not shoot the man?

Were he friend or foe,

How were I to know,

The only knowledge is that I can,

Shoot him dead,

'fore he shoots me instead.

Nothing personal, people, but if I saw you carrying a rifle, or yes even a Makarov, in a Day Z situation, (Last I checked, the bullets are still capable of killing me,) and I got the jump on you with a ranged weapon; I would take you down without even CONSIDERING waving at you and asking if you were friendly. You would die a fast, painless death, regardless of whether I had any interest or need for your equipment.

You see, I have only died once to another player in this game yet, and I started playing earlier this week, I think my total living time on the clock is about 12 or so hours before I decided to test zombie aggro ranges. The only time I died, I was holding a flare outside a town and alt-tabbed, after trying to read the sign. I got shot when I had nothing. No food, water, or anything of real value. Not even a gun worth having. Since then I have gunned down dozens of people for no other reason than that they were a threat to my own longevity.

I admire the player who shot me. He was hiding in the dark, totally invisible. He didn't need, likely, anything I had. He could kill me. He did kill me, and he made himself -much- safer.

As I discovered an in game map I have never been killed by another survivor. Yet I have encountered about 19 in my two-three man team and put them all to the bullet. Most bandits, some survivors, it doesn't matter. They're threats. Every time one of them dies my chances of living go up dramatically. The last time I even considered letting someone go past me, he opened fire on me, missed, and I put a full clip in his face with my perfectly capable Makarov made pistol. I was prone and nearly out of sight, one could say it was a sensible decision. The best decision would have been to just shoot him the moment I realised we were going to have to move past each other whilst he was deviously, (and I admire this,) typing "FRIENDLY?"

Why do bandits feel they are superior to you? I seem to be enjoying the game. My mentality is effective, and it would be effective in real life, too. People who constantly whine about the cut-throat nature of reality do not seem to be enjoying the game. Playing a game well is about enjoying it. If you cannot play Day Z for 12 hours collecting items, and run into a hoard of zombies to die just for the lulz you are not of an emotional capacity to ever fully enjoy this mod. If I enjoy something I consider that I am doing it well.

Think of it like this; you are the sheep, and I am the wolf. Is a wolf more valuable than a sheep? Is it better? No. Why would it be? They're both pointless animals with no intrinsic value, I do not consider myself better, just different. You constantly raise this issue (Or so it seems, I have only read 20 full pages of posts on this thread,) that you never had a chance.

'Woe is me, Lord of Flies, there was nothing I could have done. The snipers 'doth stike'd me down from aperch my hilltop whilst I looted the boar.'

Someone did state earlier that they were gunned down in the dark whilst -running through a forest-. Oh my, I was looting a building and I got shot randomly in the back! The accursed scoundrel did not even take the useless handkerchief from my pocket, the insult! I would not have minded if he robbed me AND murdered me, but to just shoot me, the insolence!

You ALWAYS control whether or not you get shot by someone. ALWAYS. A bandit approached my group once, he popped around the corner. I heard this and turned and I unloaded my full makarov clip into the FIRST humanoid target to come into my field of vision. He was dead twice over before he could fire on us. The reason I have survived countless stand-offs at mid-short range with other survivors is because I have an utterly ruthless zero hesitation ability to unload a clip into anything that looks like it's holding a gun the moment I have a viable target. It's -not worth the risk-. I was the only one of my friends who adopted this policy, and since my first life alt-tab night life situation I am yet to be killed by another player, alone in this within my group of friends. This is the way the mod is. Adapt to it or die.

Am I an asshole for having a no remorse policy? No. I'm alive a lot longer.

The reason why I won those stand offs is not skill. I never have the delusion that it is. It's because the people I was faced off with were fortunately the sorts who will be on the forums whining about "Giefing" whatever the fuck, invented, tear-worthy concept that is. It's because you're sheep, you hesistate. And whislt you're still wondering if I'm hostile or not, you have four bullets in your chest, and four in your head just in case your reactions aren't as bad as the last dozen sheep I culled because they were unlucky enough to bump into me. When I see that survivor with a CZ in a town, looting a shed, and I shoot him from 300 meters away because he's standing still in an exposed area, I'm not doing it because I want his items, it's because I need to be there. It's because he has an effective kill zone that I (Unlucky for him) happen to be inside of. He has to go. If people are not a threat to me, I don't even spare them a haughty glance as I stride past them in the wilderness. Unfortunately, everyone is a potential threat. So I don't get to give passers by many haughty glances, isntead I shoot them. Everyone is a threat. The fact that it is another dangerous survivor who could chance upon me at any time in the same km2 as me is a threatening factor.

The key to survival is not being seen. Ironically, many people will call me a griefer, or my playstyle "Gay", or "Cowardly", whereas all I can do is point out how effective it is. Would that survivor I sniped in the back at 200m away in order to get to the village he was in have let me live if he got the jump on me whislt I was looting it? Probably not. I am seen as an asshole griefer PK ganking (neckbearded?) 13 year old (kissless?) virgin by some players in this community simply for choosing undoubtedly the most effective method to stay alive. I actually spend all my time away from cities to AVOID players specifically. The reason I don't die to them is because, A. I seem to have a knack for NEVER getting seen first, that many sheep do not seem to be able to acquire, and B. I kill absolutely everyone that is near where I'm operating. This is made SO easy by the fact that people are crap at avoiding getting spotted. You say you looked ALL THE WAY AROUND your character when you ran into that village and got shot by the big mean bandit who is surely a 12 year old gibbon jumping up and down, peeling a fresh banana as he laughs your misfortune? Well, I've got news for you, I was that 12 year old gibbon, and I wasn't waiting just to gank you, or hunting you. I was lying down on a vantage point hundreds of meters from my objective, sitting there for TEN MINUTES to observe movements within the area. I expand the "safe" survivor free area, waiting to make sure nobody is lying still in a brush, or some crazy shit. If a survivor were JUST outside that safe area RIGHT NOW, how long would it take them to sprint to where I am going to loot? That's how long I have to be gone, and prone in a nearby bush. NOBODY SEEMS TO DO THIS. That is why you get shot when looting stuff, because it's safety first.

To the people who think running around in the wilderness is safe on a hillside, I've got news for you. I CAN see you from hundreds of meters away when you sprint around in or around hillsides, and I CAN hit you with pretty much any primary weapon and I will not hesistate to remove you from the area as any sensible law enforcement would remove any sort of dangeros wild animal. If I had tranqs I would use them, and put you back into a pen where you belong, so that I may feed and water you all in a safe environment like the mindless PvE focussed plants you seem to want to be.

To the people who think the people who get into your groups just to backstab you are cowards, or skill-less, or fags. They OUTSMARTED YOU. In a real situation right now you would have a knife in your back, rotting in the ground like the tard you were to trust a random stranger with NO INTEREST in helpingg you and they would be alive. You play stupid, you die stupid.

There is nothing wrong with rooftop dwellers who snipe for sport. Their life expectancy is short, and if you get shot by them you are an idiot. I have crawled through the middle of Cherno and Elektro now, just to prove, (without firing a shot) that taking proper precuations to avoid player contact is so horribly easy you have no excuse to keep getting ganked. If you don't want to get sniped in elektro, have some kind of spatial awareness, stick to street walls, prone all the time, every time, or maybe, simply, don't go to Elektro.

You're there to be preyed upon until you become a wolf, make no mistake, my beloved flock.

Why do they criticise,

The wolf, the dog, the hound?

Do these sheep not realise,

With all their bumbling sound;

They did startle the wolf,

Scare the dog,

Entice the hound.

To alert a dog's no easy feat,

But when a wolf, has to eat,

In a shallow grave you'll be found.

And they shall remember you,

As the sheep.

Rotting, in the ground.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

holy fuck

[Virfortis 111]

A super long response that boils down to "shut up and let me kill who I want for fun"

Yeah...violence in gaming at its finest >.> No wonder we had to fight so hard for our rights in the US.

I say again: PvP in context is fine, even a great idea, but when the players realize it's just a game, and abuse game mechanics as thus (server hopping, spawn camping, etc.) it simply becomes RDM with Zombies. Rocket never intended for it to be that, and hopefully all this will be put to rest when the Bandit system is reworked.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

A super long response that boils down to "shut up and let me kill who I want for fun"

Yeah...violence in gaming at its finest >.> No wonder we had to fight so hard for our rights in the US.

I say again: PvP in context is fine' date=' even a great idea, but when the players realize it's just a game, and abuse game mechanics as thus (server hopping, spawn camping, etc.) it simply becomes RDM with Zombies. Rocket never intended for it to be that, and hopefully all this will be put to rest when the Bandit system is reworked.

[/quote']

here, ill post this again just for you, maybe this should be on the front page so people will stop complaining about pvp

"DayZ was designed to be impossibly cruel, dark, and brutal. It was not designed as a game it was more of an experiment, I prefer the term "anti-game" - in other words the mechanics are not designed to be balanced, or offer a way out for different situations. These are things game designers normally take care with.

I discussed this with the our team members at great length of many arguments, the idea behind safe zones. The eventual consensus was that it went against the ethos of the project. This whole concept, and the reason it "works", is that there IS no safe zone (unless you make it). Your actions have real and brutal consequences. There are no game designed safety nets.

It is the kind of system/environment that will sometimes make you want to punch the computer screen. But with that kind of risk, comes great emotional reward when you carry something off. The sniper you describe - there are people like this in the world, and in the breakdown of order I can bet that there would be people who would sit on a roof and shoot people "just for the lulz".

The system makes no judgement on player actions, and this is one of the only real rules that was adopted for the development. While consequences may occur for a particular action (e.g. humanity loss), no judgement is implied or placed on that behavior. Beyond hacks, and misuse of exploits, regulating player behavior is not a scope of this project. If players, themselves, wish to group together and attempt to regulate the behavior. Well, that's entirely up to you.

This kind of activity is not for everyone. It really is more of a social experiment than a game. There is no intention to change that, if you dislike the PVP, then I would recommend playing Dynamic Zombie Sandbox or Celery's excellent Chernaus Apocalypse - there is no point in these being recreated through this mod."

[memphisbelle 4]

It's the old carrot-on-a-stick mentality; people believe that after they die' date=' their next character will be the one that goes on to get the best equipment, build a following, and control an area of their very own, and live for weeks/months without a death!

It never happens, of course (not yet), but that fact is that it is possible.

[/quote']

hahaha, awesome...I was a little reading in the first pages and found myself again...well described, Griff

---

[...]

I´ve got a technical question...how fast is your connection?

I am asking cause I had a situation a few days ago, where me and a bandit meet coincidentaly whle we both were moving on ground towards a barn. We noticed each other, I aimed, fired 5 rounds into that guy, but nontheless died. I am pretty sure, that once my connection would be faster, that I´ve won that battle.

That´s why I like to know how fast is yours.

according to that what you wrote.

If you are running around, going your way and killing people you meet...it´s part of the game. But if you keep lying somewhere hidden and shoot everyone who comes across your hiding place, so it is definately the wrong way to be a bandit in this mod.

Although I´ve got to admit that it is reading a bit as you would be a paranoid guy...and those ones are the most dangerous persons ever, even in real life...small thinking but whide acting

[milancz 10]

Being cautious is ok with me, but simply shooting everything in sight is not the best approach and definitely not one to brag about.

Seeing everybody as a possible threat is normal, but having RoE of a lunatic not much. I simply shoot only those who pose immediate threat, most likely because they know about me or are going to spot me any second. But if you see some newbie running around with flares and you are sneaking through the area, there is no sane reason to open fire on him as you'll likely gain nothing, loose ammo and draw attention to yourself. Even if its not a newb, its better to leave people alone. In total darkness I nearly bumped into a guy in some forest. He had survivor skin, definitely some good stuff on him, but he didnt know about me. I had more than enough stuff to keep me going to next areas with loot and I choose to not shoot him becase: A. I'm not an a-hole and most importantly B. as I said, you never know who's around. Guess what, I took cover and watched, shortly after another guy who's been probably working with him showed up and I'd be dead/fighting by that time if I had killed the first guy. I fire only in selfdefense, sneak and avoid all contact except with well known friends and I can easily outlive any triggerhappy bandit.

Oh and there's a small exception to my RoE: 1. See a bandit skin? 2. Unload whole mag if possible, if not call him out to whole server, grab some beer and watch him getting gangbanged.

[Dinnj 4]

Shooting everyone works for me very well. I would do it in real life in this situation. I tend to play on daylight servers, as such the chances of people spotting me in the future, if they're in my area, and if I let them live increases. I think the notion of leaving people alone if they don't see you is arguably naive and a little bit short sighted. Simply because he is not a threat to you now does not mean that he is not a threat to you later. Eliminate them to be sure, and there's no way that you'll ever regret your decision. That's where it comes down to in analysing methods, personal experience. I've never been in a position where I thought, "Damn, I really wish I hadn't shot that guy." Have you been killed by survivors, Fang? I would not be surprised. If not, then people shooting everyone on sight seems to not be very detrimental for others at all, as they can simply find a way around it without shooting others; I congratulate your humantiy, I bet you're a lovely person IRL based on your in game behaviour. Sheep think now. Wolves think ahead.