The PvP Discussion Thread

[Jikfive 34]

I actually do not know what a good fix would be.

But look upon the main page and check it out. step 1, salvage. Step 2 slay Zombies and BANDITS, step 3 survive.

It is painfully obvious to me that the dev really wants banditry to have some meaning and weight to it. The atmosphere right now discourages ANY kind of interaction with strangers.

---

Also, I never suggested penalizing bandits.

I just think that survivors should have a benefit that may be given up in order to turn towards banditry.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

I actually do not know what a good fix would be.

But look upon the main page and check it out. step 1' date=' salvage. Step 2 slay Zombies and BANDITS, step 3 survive.

It is painfully obvious to me that the dev really wants banditry to have some meaning and weight to it. The atmosphere right now discourages ANY kind of interaction with strangers.

[hr']

Also, I never suggested penalizing bandits.

I just think that survivors should have a benefit that may be given up in order to turn towards banditry.

the benifit is/was that other like minded survivors would be less likely to shoot you on sight

[Dinnj 4]

Removal of a benefit is the same thing as saying punishment.

It's like trying to justify breaking people's legs as not a punishment, all you're really doing is "Removing the benefit of walking".

There is no fix that avoids damaging the ethos of the mod (Doesn't hurt people for playing how they want due to rule intervention, it is not broken.

[Jikfive 34]

Dinnj why did the devs force bandit skins on players in the first place?

[Dinnj 4]

Did they not already removed it?

I think it was originally intended to represent that players who hunt other humans would equip themselves with gear to help them with that task.

Would you like to avoid the question again, or would you like to suggest a fix which is not a punishment for play style?

I'll get back to you tomorrow, so you've plently of time to come up with something good.

[Jikfive 34]

The point I am making right now, with the current systems risk/rewards.

If you are not shooting everyone in the face and looting them then your odds of survival will go down.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

The point I am making right now' date=' with the current systems risk/rewards.

If you are not shooting everyone in the face and looting them then your odds of survival will go down.

[/quote']

sometimes its safer to ignore

[Jikfive 34]

Deadbolt took the words out of my mouth.

The game is in danger of forcing players into 2 options. Ignore/kill. It discourages interaction with strangers. If everyone wises up and becomes too paranoid to even INTERACT with strangers hilarious moments like this will never occur.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

Deadbolt took the words out of my mouth.

The game is in danger of forcing players into 2 options. Ignore/kill. It discourages interaction with strangers.

its complicated, if you are playing solo its potentially safer to group up with people (assuming they dont shoot you)

there are a lot of reasons to group up and most deal directly with survival

[Jikfive 34]

Deadbolt I have 10 friends on TS. What would my incentive be to talk to a stranger instead of killing him? I already have friends and a group.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

Deadbolt I have 10 friends on TS. What would my incentive be to talk to a stranger instead of killing him? I already have friends and a group.

have a larger group potentially? point is, there is still the incentive for other lone players to group up

[Jikfive 34]

Dinnj here we go.

As a survivor your food and water requirements could be slightly less frequent.

Now I have a choice, do I want to go bandit and give up my bonus?

[S1ippery Jim 139]

This is the first game I have played that makes me feel a strong sense of paranoia and mistrust. It is also the most unforgiving Zombie game out there. I don't kill other players unless fired upon first (or if I strongly believe I am being fired upon). However PVP in this game is brilliant in setting the right atmosphere of bleak zombie apocalypse survival. It's not meant to be easy.

[mbricochet 1]

This game is PVE first, PVP second, and PVZ last.

At this point zombies just feel like obnoxious pests.

They are spastic, irritating, and unsatisfying to deal with. I am not really sure how to balance them better other then smoothing out their pathing and movement. Zombies seem almost pathetic.

It's the other players that turn me into a paranoid loon. This is some of the most edgy and terrifying gameplay I have seen in an online shooter. I can't remember the last time I had so much fun online.

It's just. Amazing. Even the most veteran player can be laid out by a single well placed bullet from a startled noob. It's just nerve wracking goodness.

[callousdisregard 2]

No.

But I didn't expect you to understand it since you've made more than clear where you stand on the issue.

Please explain to me where I am wrong. I quoted you - verbatim - above' date=' saying that it's going to become a deathmatch because you're going to make it a deathmatch. Please explain where [i']I failed to understand rather than you failed to make your point clearly.

Let me translate for you TKJ.

What he said was " WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhh WaaaaaaaaaaaaH blubber blubber sniffle .......waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh"

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The proof is in the numbers.

88,261 unique players of whom only 8150 are bandits.

I'm not positive of this but I'm pretty sure the percentage has stayed about 10% end up as bandits.

It is pretty simple, spawn-> run straight into the woods and keep going until you find something north of the coast or west if you spawn on the east coast.

Crawl around zeds and use the free look often and you won't have many problems with them and most of all, be patient.

The 13th commandment "Thou shalt look around" is always in effect because bandits and hungry/sick/wounded survivors are indistinguishable.

As they should be.

Stop crying.

[SandmanSlim 0]

The pvp in this mod isnt satisfying , there's no skill involved in shooting someone in the back just because you can. This is purely the definition of insanity , doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. You work hard , spend hours trying to accomplish something only for some jerk to shoot you in the back just because purely the fact they have a gun and a shooter game without shooting isnt fun now is it? This isnt a mod that deserves all this attention , this is nothing more than Cherno-Zombie-Life, and anyone who's played Cherno or Zarga life knows how ridiculously infuriating it is when everyone just wants to grief everyone with guns all day long just for the sheer enjoyment of shooting other players. If the context of this mission is to just shoot everything and everyone that moves then make the mission limited to the city of cherno and call it a day because frankly there's no survival to this mod , its just spawn and try to kill as many people as you can before they do the same to you. You guys want a real mission , go play warfare, this is a joke.

[griffinz 2816]

The pvp in this mod isnt satisfying ' date=' there's no skill involved in shooting someone in the back just because you can. [/quote'] You need to redefine the word "skill" in this mod.

Skill in CoD is twitch-shooting and being the first to point at a person and shoot.

Skill in DayZ is not putting yourself in a position to be shot...ever.

[joote 1]

Anyone that shoots and kills another player should loose that much humanity that he becomes a zombie, then at least the ganker can become useful to the game play by adding a tiny amount of intelligence to the zombie hoards.

[Dinnj 4]

The point I am making right now' date=' with the current systems risk/rewards.

If you are not shooting everyone in the face and looting them then your odds of survival will go down.

[/quote']

This is not a negative point. Back it up further. Is having high survival chances that important to you as a player? Why is it so bad? We already know the vast majority love it how it is. Why should we change it without ruining the experience for the masses?

I'm not against making survival more fun, ie. better PvE content, better loot from places maybe, but introducing penalties to player choices just because others don't like is fundamentally wrong. In any game, but especially Day Z.

Your idea is the same as: "If you kill other players, your food and water requirements go up."

You are punishing bandits for playing smart, how is that justifiable? Remember, coming up with a problem that doesn't punish people for making choices is the key, here.

The reason banditry is successful, low risk/high reward, as you say. Is not because the devs introduced a system where, after you kill a player, you gain 50% weapon damage, 100% health, 50% more blood, and 200% food/water durations. It is successful because it is the LOGICAL choice. It is the natural, emergent, playstyle of the mod. I don't see how naturally evolved metagame can be a negative thing. You cannot punish players to encourage them to do something else, they'll just leave.

Banditry is safer, but if the survivor they're after isn't a total sheep, they're on 100% equal footing. Hunting an alert survivor who is a good shot is dangerous.

Remember fun? I remember fun. The best way to survive is actually a hunting knife, matches, and like 5 water bottles and living in the deep north widlerness. It's the most successful, undoubtedly, in the game. There's pretty much no risk. The reward is survival time, that's all that really matters. How you do it is up to you. People don't do this because it's boring. It's a big factor.

If trusting people is a big thing to you, just do it. It has to start with someone, right? Just accept you might die more, it's not about balance, because there aren't any teams. Everyone is put on equal footing, and the point is to see what they make of that, and what choices they make.

The pvp in this mod isnt satisfying ' date=' there's no skill involved in shooting someone in the back just because you can.

[/quote']

Is there not skill in sneaking up on such an intelligent animal as a human...? No skill... You are playing a different game, lad.

The fact you're saying "Omg no skillz" in relation to Day Z suggests you probably shouldn't be here. It's not about skill, it's about being smart, it's about thinking like a hunter, and someone who is being hunted every waking moment of the day.

It is probably the most intimate mod for PvP. Every individual is on perfectly equal footing. Bad guns can be lethal in seconds, giving everyone a fighting chance if they're smart about it. If there's a situation where a lone bandit guns you down, he's won, you lost. That's it. You had the exact opportunities he did, and you wasted them. It's about how you think. The "leet skills" that you are missing are actually intelligent gameplay here. If some guy realises it's easier to sit on a nearby hill and wait for the mouse () to come for the cheese (), who invariably never ever scouts the surrounding area, and the careless survivor runs into his trap, then you should die if that survivor is you. That's how nature works. It is not pleasant.

I really fail to think of a situation in which the survivor could not have killed the bandit, or simply stayed in cover in such a way they would not be such easy quarry.

Alright, perhaps they're in the middle of a field, only with a mac, and a helicopter gank squad comes down to steal their water bottle. Short of that, though, I really am just missing where the rage is coming from.

[ClinClin 1]

Bandit and non-bandit styles of play should be balanced. It is only interesting to play either role because the other one exists.

It is ok for the game to have bandits, it is not ok for the game to have only bandits.

My suggestion would be to make one's humanity visible to others. So people would be getting at least some indication of who is who.

[Dinnj 4]

I wish I had one of those in real life, ClinClin.

I don't think it's such a great suggestion, to be honest. Does that not remove most of the tension from the game? Is not trusting survivor skins any way stupid enough? We know from anecdotes already that survivors are crafty bastards too.

It's not okay for the game to have only bandits, (Which includes people killing for safety, let me add.) Why is that? Would you like to substantiate that line of reasoning? Is it because you are not a bandit, or because you do not like the playstyle? Why is having a game with primarily bandit types a bad thing? Explain please.

Why is it only interesting to play if the other one exists? Humans. Think of it like that. One big class.

[LondonHyena 7]

When I first started playing, I tried to be nice and got shot.

Then, I progressed into killing everyone I could for the hell of it.

Now, I've found a middle ground. If I can avoid people, I do. If they have something I want, and they are vunerable I might slot them.

If I go into a building and I see you in there, damn right im shooting you. I didn't hunt you, you appeared, and are in my way and I will not trust you in close quarters.

[callousdisregard 2]

You are wasting your breath Dinnj. These are the kids that got the computer they are playing Dayz with by whining and crying ad infinitum.

It worked on Mommy but they still have been able to grasp the fact that it doesn't work in the real world.

Dayz is the real world.

I have no leet skillz and I survive 2 or 3 days at a time. Then I do something stupid like walk away while I'm loading in only to return and find myself dead.

Or ...I hook up with some carebears and try to help new players and I'm promptly murdered in an urban area----------> total surprise.

I love this game because your twitch shooting skills mean almost nothing here and your ability to think and most of all to WAIT is what keeps you alive.

I have played a few other mods and everyone one of them had the same whining bitches with the same refrain.

"If you don't do this and this then this mod is going to fail"

One of those mods is 6 years old now and the other is approaching 1 year and they aren't dead yet.

True, Dayz has robbed all the players from all the other ARMA2 mods.

I wonder why ?

Is it because all of those people have no skills and need to shoot people in the back to get kills ?

Somehow I don't think that is what is drawing people to this mod and sending ARMA2 sales rocketing up the sales charts.

[Phenotype (DayZ) 1]

MasterCaution' pid='53212' dateline='1337768496']

Dayz is the real world.

Dayz is not the real world. One major difference is that it is very difficult to identify and remember players, unlike the real world. In the real world, you can spot your friends from half a mile away, just by the way they hold their body and move around.

In real life, you can remember a face for years just from a single encounter.

In real life you can warn people to look out for someone by describing them "he's about 6" tall, thin, has long hair and a beard". You can't do this in Dayz.

In Dayz, you can switch between servers and/or change your name to remain anonymous.

This means that in Dayz, the downside of asocial behaviour (being shunned or even hunted down by other humans) do not apply.

It is perfectly reasonable to want to discuss ways to address this problem, if only for realism's sake.

[Pat_the_Bunny 4]

Anyone that shoots and kills another player should loose that much humanity that he becomes a zombie' date=' then at least the ganker can become useful to the game play by adding a tiny amount of intelligence to the zombie hoards.

[/quote']

I actually think this would be pretty neat, although doubt it will ever happen.