PvP kills: what % would you do for real?

[nucleqrwinter@gmail.com 156]

Just think if there are perhaps 600,000 unique individuals who have played this game... and a guestimate in the US says there are 1 murders per 11,000 population - which we lazily extrapolate to include all global nationalities playing...

then that's potentially 54.5 actual RL murderers who have played DayZ - not factoring in serial killers.

ho hum

Then you could still argue that the absence of any kind of law enforcement would make these numbers meaningless in the case of a Zombie apocalypse.

I actually think they are revealing. The homicide rate (including self defence) in the US as of 2010 is of 4.8 per 100 000 population : Think about how many times these 100 000 people might have been in a situation of temporary insanity, deep anger or loss of control due to life events or use of drugs/alcohol or even in a self defence situation and yet only 5 of them - 0,005% - committed murder.

And yet, the homicide rate in the US is still 10 times more than that of Norway in 2010.

Humans are not killing machine.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Nucleqrwinter

[Stukov 2]

Then you could still argue that the absence of any kind of law enforcement would make these numbers meaningless in the case of a Zombie apocalypse.

I actually think they are revealing. The homicide rate (including self defence) in the US as of 2010 is of 4.8 per 100 000 population : Think about how many times these 100 000 people might have been in a situation of temporary insanity, deep anger or loss of control due to life events or use of drugs/alcohol or even in a self defence situation and yet only 5 of them - 0,005% - committed murder.

And yet, the homicide rate in the US is still 10 times more than that of Norway in 2010.

Humans are not killing machine.

As someone who has studied criminal justice I can tell you that a multicultural society (such as the US with varied ethnicities, cultures, races, religion, etc) will have more crime than a society that has one unified language, culture, and language. This is even the case within the US you have most crime occurring within the same communities (ethnicity/culture) rather than between different groups. In either case you can't really compare US crime (including homicide) with that of Norway.In any case, I've read and heard some things that Rocket has mentioned and it seems based on his experiences in life he wanted to make something "authentic" and an "anti-game". While I could be misunderstanding what he meant, to me having those two hand in hand means that when you are in this game, you should feel you are really in this situation. That your choices and actions should be that of yourself in this situation. Not in a game wanting to play death match. The poll was to see how many people treat this as an apocalypse sim and those who treat it as a death match game. If they treat it as just a game, what would it take for them to play it as a simulation (if that was truly rockets attempt).One person did mention some end-game rebuilding type things. Maybe that may change things, I don't know.

[chaR 40]

Pretty sure that if chernarus were to happen irl, i'd make about 75% of the kills i'd do in-game.

In a few scenarios, I'd rob the person instead of just shooting him down, but sometimes it's to risky ingame.

[Stukov 2]

Pretty sure that if chernarus were to happen irl, i'd make about 75% of the kills i'd do in-game.

In a few scenarios, I'd rob the person instead of just shooting him down, but sometimes it's to risky ingame.

That would be interesting *sneaks up behind someone, over voice com* "Turn around and your dead. I'm taking whatever is in your backpack I want, then I'm leaving. If you move, flinch, or thinking about turning around I will blast you, and the sniper on the hill will waste you too." *rifles through the backpack and takes some things* "Thanks for the beans and ammo bro. Come after us and your dead." *slips into the darkness*

[DoshDosh 62]

I honestly believe that a vast majority of players here would avoid killing other humans in a real life anarchic scenario unless it was the absolute final option (and if they did, would become emotional wrecks); none of the "I see you from behind my tree and shoot you while you're eating food"... mainly because people who do act like the shoot-on-sight bandits in game would essentially be sociopaths, and in that case wouldn't function well in society as it is now anyway.

People who think acting like bandits do in DayZ is the first way to go should feel free to join up with their national military. Several of my best friends served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and each one who's had the misfortune of having to take a life have had some form of PTSD afterwards; these were mentally fit and intelligent young men that became emotional wrecks and husks of their former selves because they had to kill enemy combatants, and I can't imagine what soldiers who accidentally kill unarmed civilians would go through. Sure, you see the occasional sociopath killing civilians (see: http://www.usatoday....base/53493404/1), but as it's shown, there are severe repercussions for not only him, but everybody around him.

tl;dr - It's a game and a vast majority of DayZ players wouldn't act the same way, even if they want to sound tough.

edit: spelling :(

Edited July 19, 2012 by DoshDosh

[Arnie (DayZ) 21]

"It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have." - William Munny, unforgiven -

[The Poacher 31]

IRL I'd hightail it for the local national guard armory and pick up a Stryker, not shoot people.

[Addicted (DayZ) 32]

Well I can't vote because there's no option for a 33% average!

:P

[nucleqrwinter@gmail.com 156]

As someone who has studied criminal justice I can tell you that a multicultural society (such as the US with varied ethnicities, cultures, races, religion, etc) will have more crime than a society that has one unified language, culture, and language. This is even the case within the US you have most crime occurring within the same communities (ethnicity/culture) rather than between different groups. In either case you can't really compare US crime (including homicide) with that of Norway.In any case, I've read and heard some things that Rocket has mentioned and it seems based on his experiences in life he wanted to make something "authentic" and an "anti-game". While I could be misunderstanding what he meant, to me having those two hand in hand means that when you are in this game, you should feel you are really in this situation. That your choices and actions should be that of yourself in this situation. Not in a game wanting to play death match. The poll was to see how many people treat this as an apocalypse sim and those who treat it as a death match game. If they treat it as just a game, what would it take for them to play it as a simulation (if that was truly rockets attempt).One person did mention some end-game rebuilding type things. Maybe that may change things, I don't know.

Indeed, I was only really stressing the fact that these numbers might be low but they are actually relatively high compared to other countries so yeah, people are even less natural born killers than most might think. I get your point, though.

So what do you think about the results of the poll?

While they are quite disappointing to me in a way, I'm not really surprised that a majority doesn't manage to get immersed properly as it takes a certain kind of personality IMO.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Nucleqrwinter

[bonx 8]

Irrelevant poll since gamers would be the first to die in a zombie apocalypse.

[wartzilla 182]

I would not actively hunt people the way I do in this game. It *is* just a game.

I would avoid, and if necessary shoot, in real life. Making contact with strangers in a scenario like this is not worth the risk.. Unless, of course, it's a game!

[Endee 0]

So far I act the way I believe I would act in a zombie apocalypse. I have killed 1 bandit and that was because he killed my buddy and started to try and kill me. I live in the forest and hunt animals for food. I take the odd trip into town for hospital runs but for the most part I have everything I need to survive in the woods.

[Neokolzia 3]

75%, because the other 25% are just to entertaining and I would have just sat back at 800M with my sniper screwing with them =)

[Rising (DayZ) 99]

I remember one of my earlier PK kills. I spotted these two guys just exploring and hitting up towns, looting, etc. One of them had a hatchet, the other a Lee Enfield. They were just minding their own business when i spotted them, and stalked them for a good half hour. When i finally had a clear shot, when they were fighting zeds, i took it. Almost immediately i felt regret. I knew what a shitty feeling it would be, respawning on the coast again, starting all over and most of the time you're not even sure what mistake you made... remember he was fighting zeds. I let the other guy live, who went prone and was probably talking to his buddy over voip as he seemed to be guarding the corpse.

When you press a button, and you end someone's life, it's not "just a game" anymore. You can't really throw that term around for online games, because whatever you do, it most likely affects an actual human on the other end. People who do all sorts of crazy things and then say "oh its just a game", are IMO very irresponsible. Sure at the end of the day it really is just a game, but it's a game that other people are spending time and effort on, a game that other people enjoy. When you murder someone in cold blood or in deceit, just remember that you ARE ruining someone's day. I'm not the one to say whether it's right or wrong, Rocket let YOU make the decision. Just don't hide behind the "its just a game" excuse, because you know deep down it's not. If your'e going to ruin someone's day, then at least man up to it.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Rising

[azrael72 28]

It would work the opposite for me in real life. I've been playing for 2 months and have only had one bandit kill. I tend to avoid others, if I can't I try to communicate, if I die, I die. Folks are awfully jumpy in Chernarus. Sometimes I think just hearing a voice, no matter how calmly and slowly I try to speak frightens them so badly they just start shooting.

I was raised, though, to protect my loved ones, myself, my property with lethal force if necessary. Don't misunderstand me to mean any such acts were to be taken lightly. In other words, we were taught to assess and respond appropriately not just be gun-toting nuts. We were brought up to be actively aware of our surroundings, people around us, and trust our instincts. (Vietnam veteran, ex-Army Dad.) In the event of an actual apocalypse I would probably be more apt to kill another human being having assessed them as a threat. In real life, apocalypse aside, if a person were to enter my home with ill intent, threaten my life or the lives of my family I would decisively respond with deadly force. The very opposite of how I play the game. Weird, huh? Hmmm, maybe not. The Bandit I killed was attacking and ultimately killed my husband as he entered a barn just before me. If he hadn't been there I have to wonder if I would have even bothered firing on the hatchet killer. Huh, I'm going to have to ponder this now.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Azrael72

[PkStormx 23]

if im in the situation, where i already have 3 other friends that i trust, then i would try to avoid contact with others, and shoot if they seem to be hostile. (Hostile = Fully auto weapon/Scoped weapon)

[Stukov 2]

Indeed, I was only really stressing the fact that these numbers might be low but they are actually relatively high compared to other countries so yeah, people are even less natural born killers than most might think. I get your point, though.

So what do you think about the results of the poll?

While they are quite disappointing to me in a way, I'm not really surprised that a majority doesn't manage to get immersed properly as it takes a certain kind of personality IMO.

I think the results are expected in terms of what I am seeing people play like in the game and talk about on the forums, but I think it goes against what Rocket intends with Day Z. He obviously wants a sandbox, but I don't think he wants people to treat it as "just a game", at least not his intention. I think he wants to break that mold.Btw, interesting read Azrael.

[elliotle 6]

Yeah right bandit tough guys. Your arguments are garbage. Show me one disaster, man made or natural, where the ENTIRE population of an area just started slaughtering EVERYBODY else. It hasn't happened ever. It isn't human nature. If we were that destructive, we wouldn't be here.

[Ssgt_Perez 35]

I play with friends, anyone who approaches unannounced while armed I immediately gun them down whether they know I am there or not for the safety of my friends and my safety. I can say without a doubt I'd do the same if anyone threatened those close to me.

[Ssgt_Perez 35]

Yeah right bandit tough guys. Your arguments are garbage. Show me one disaster, man made or natural, where the ENTIRE population of an area just started slaughtering EVERYBODY else. It hasn't happened ever. It isn't human nature. If we were that destructive, we wouldn't be here.

Not the entire population but I remember during Katrina there were assholes on the roof shooting at random helis or people. Also the world has never experienced something as devastating and traumatic as a zombie apocalypse.

[Stukov 2]

Yeah right bandit tough guys. Your arguments are garbage. Show me one disaster, man made or natural, where the ENTIRE population of an area just started slaughtering EVERYBODY else. It hasn't happened ever. It isn't human nature. If we were that destructive, we wouldn't be here.

As someone said, you had people being killed after Katrina, but generally you don't see that happening because you don't have an entire breakdown of civilization during a disaster. It takes quite a while before people realize things aren't going back to the way they used to be, they cling to the rules of society so long as they think there is a society to get back to.I don't know if you noticed in game, but the military is wiped out, there is no government, hell, there isn't even little pockets of civilized people. The only rule that is enforced is at the end of someones gun. I don't think tons of people in this thread are being "tough guys". But you have to realize, that sometimes, the people who survive horrible things are the ones who was willing to do anything to survive.

[DoshDosh 62]

Yeah right bandit tough guys. Your arguments are garbage. Show me one disaster, man made or natural, where the ENTIRE population of an area just started slaughtering EVERYBODY else. It hasn't happened ever. It isn't human nature. If we were that destructive, we wouldn't be here.

I agree with this, although there are certainly a few crazies out in disasters like Katrina that did take advantage of the anarchy to steal/loot, rape and shoot to kill (over-reported by the media, but present nonetheless). On the other hand, if you look at the Fukushima nuclear disasters and Tohoku Earthquake and the chaos that followed in Japan, there pretty much was barely any reported crime- it rose of course, but not enough to even be mentioned in the media. On the contrary, the Japanese Yakuza actually contributed to the relief efforts since the government wasn't able or willing to help the citizens.

Someone mentioned it before that culture has an impact on the behavior of citizens in anarchic conditions, and I'm inclined to agree. I think countries with strong gun cultures in particular (The USA is a perfect example of this even outside disaster times, and are more prone to increase in criminal actions in such a situation than other countries, seen here: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes/), but even in those conditions nobody has the absolute liberty of being a completely faceless entity over the internet or respawning, so I'd guess it wouldn't be that severe.

[Steven89 22]

i guess the first thing i would do is....walk out of my house and scream.. ANY FRIENDLYS IN MY FUGGIN CITY :D ohh and i would take off my pants.

[P5ykoOHD 63]

In RL you don't respawn when you die. Unless you believe in reincarnation, in which case, you respawn very slowly. That makes any comparison to the game irrelevant.

You could ask the same question about PvE kills: How many times would you risk your life going into a zombie infested city for some canned food?

For those who believe in reincarnation ... it should take 3 dayZ ...

(I know bad joke)

[elliotle 6]

Not the entire population but I remember during Katrina there were assholes on the roof shooting at random helis or people. Also the world has never experienced something as devastating and traumatic as a zombie apocalypse.

Most people evacuated. The majority of those that remained grouped together. The minority shot at people and helicopters.

Now Dayz. Everybody kills everybody. You can't use the "if this was a real disaster" argument to justify being a psychopath in the game and ignore the fact that if the game was real life, the vast minority of players would murder other players on sight.