A serious question for the PvP-phobes

[Dramatic Exit 62]

Maybe some self reflection would be good at this point.. :D

Never made an effort at excluding myself from it. ;)

It's like we're discussing a cartoon of a car driving down the road

and person x goes "omg wheels dont go round in real life this cartoon is silly and needs to be changed"

and I go "wheels totally go round in real life"

and then you walk in and go "dude it's a cartoon why are you talking about real life!"

Then you have the gall to call me retarded?

Edit:

Seriously, if this is the calibre of moron that's picketing for some carebear PVP system, it's no wonder they get shot in the face all the time. I'm surprised you haven't all licked plug sockets yet, because "there isn't a guide telling me that plug sockets are not good to be licked" or "the game doesn't have a bandit outfit on plug sockets that show me its OK to lick them or not.

Well, with the grand and sweeping statements about human behaviour in an inherently unreal situation... Yup. I'm pretty much gonna call you retarded. Furthermore, I'm in no way advocating a carebare pvp system. Infact I'm saying "Hey, if it's in the game, it's good to go."

The sweet sweet irony of your entire circle of argument there comes out to "there's anonymity in this game and the internet which means you can do what you want" In a real world situation with no laws there would be anonymity too. What exactly are you arguing against here? People would do whatever the fuck they wanted with no repercussions in the real world and that's exactly what's happening in this "game" "simulation" "collection of pixels" whatever other semantic you want to start an argument over (which is a complete irrelevance in and of itself).

Repercussions... No, in reality the anonymity disintegrates as soon as you are face to face with another individual, and when the real consequences both for yourself and someone else can be seen first hand. Distance it, pixelate it, and hooooly shit, would you look at that, nobody gives a fuck any more!

I'm arguing for a "hey, do what you wanna do" system in the game, and to suggest we stop calling it a fucking simulator. It's really not a sim. If it were a sim, we would be inventing moral and social consequences for our every action and self enforcing them. That's not gonna happen, because hey, fuckit, I wanna shoot zombies, chill out, and occasionally blast the odd player who looked at me funny or had some better gear I wanted to have.

Note: Plenty of edits made to this.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Dramatic Exit

[Ankhenaten 111]

And as to you, I don't even know what you're argument is trying to achieve at this stage. What? Okay you'd kill me or something and be mighty.

I am not sure that you understand that fitness isn't strength or killing, it's reproduction and long term reproduction. That's all.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

yada yada yada

Right, I see what your style is then. You hang on the periferies of a discussion between others then when you see some minor term to grasp on you pop in with your smug face on:

^_^ "HAY GUYS, DID YOU KNOW THIS IS A VIDEO GAME?" ^_^

http://affordablehou...ploads/smug.jpg

If you want to get pedantic over terms, it's entirely subjective. You could argue til you're blue in the face. This "game" or whatever you want to call it falls under the broad terms of what defines a "simulation" it also falls under terms which describe a "game". The thing I state is, this is a game which is aimed towards realism. That is what the creator of it is aiming for. The level to which a game or simulation can ever ascertain complete immersive 1:1 realism is a moot argument.

If you want some long winded debate past that, that's your prerogative and you can find some other monkey to play with because that's an endless black hole. None of my initial contentions were geared towards firmly stating that. But if someone wants to pull the "this wouldn't happen IRL" card -- That's where my argument was aimed.

I am not sure that you understand that fitness isn't strength or killing, it's reproduction and long term reproduction. That's all.

I am very sure that you don't understand that this has nothing to do with what was being discussed. I humoured you for a few posts with your completely off topic tangent, but that ends here. You're talking complete gibberish for reasons I simply don't care to find out.

Edited July 19, 2012 by itputsthelotion

[Andrej Dudev 50]

sandbox PvP survival horror game

This phrase invalidates everything you said later.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6135/1293627815917.jpg

Edited July 19, 2012 by Andrej Dudev

[azrael72 28]

Anyway my question to these people is basically, what do you expect?

How do you expect other players to react to you in their presence?

Do you expect to call out friendly, then hold hands and kill zombies together without ANY risk of being killed?

Because that could happen.

But you know, there can't be one without the other.

DayZ is all or nothing, it's either completely safe all the time (and a lot of these people won't be happy until that's the case), or it's not safe any of the time.

I know which one is a more compelling gaming experience for me, and I hope it stays that way.

Having any expectations of any kind, I think, is what tends to bite players in the ass, and sparks the ire.

I started playing DayZ in early May. A week or so before I joined the forums, I think it was. My son sent me the link to the Kilroy videos and I knew I had to try it out. I've been a huge fan of the Zombie/post-apocalyptic genre for 30 years, in films and books. I'd only ever played one online game. Combat Arms. My husband and guys from work played and we'd chat, laugh and mow each other down with no apologies, that's what you were supposed to do. Upon entering the DayZ world I had preconceived notions as to how I would behave had I survived an apocalypse and made assumptions about how most others would behave as well.

In DayZ I am a hardcore, balls to the wall, crazy, uber.....Carebear! :P Any assumptions I'd had coming into to this game regarding how other people would behave I've chucked right the hell out the frickin' window!

I don't engage in PVP. I have a well developed sense of empathy for the people at the keyboards who play this brutal game and I treat them the way I would like to treated, even if it gets me killed. I don't particularly like getting killed, but there's no point in complaining about it either. I guess my personal notion of post-apocalypse survival is not just about my survival, but survival of the species. There are 626,166 unique players in DayZ. I see this number as the DayZ world population. The number of murders is 2,250,066. Human extinction has occured 3 times! Arguments based on realism are moot.

I don't understand the rampant PVP in this game, particularly sniping just to kill. I don't understand NASCAR fans. PVPers may not understand my way of playing. NASCAR fans may not understand my love of college football. That's okay... it really is. We all come from different places, philosophically, gaming experience, life experience - all of which play a role in how different players approach gameplay in DayZ. What's fantastic about it is that there is room in this DayZ world to roll however it is you want to roll, with the added bonus of experiencing genuine, real-life, gut-wrenching emotions. I don't care for the "I died >:(" whining posts either, but I do enjoy reading the well thought out ideas of people both for and against PVP.

Again it seems to me that an unwillingness to let go of preconceived notions about how everything and everybody should be, is what causes so much of the angst for so many cranky forum members.

[Whattteva 32]

Having any expectations of any kind, I think, is what tends to bite players in the ass, and sparks the ire.

I started playing DayZ in early May. A week or so before I joined the forums, I think it was. My son sent me the link to the Kilroy videos and I knew I had to try it out. I've been a huge fan of the Zombie/post-apocalyptic genre for 30 years, in films and books. I'd only ever played one online game. Combat Arms. My husband and guys from work played and we'd chat, laugh and mow each other down with no apologies, that's what you were supposed to do. Upon entering the DayZ world I had preconceived notions as to how I would behave had I survived an apocalypse and made assumptions about how most others would behave as well.

In DayZ I am a hardcore, balls to the wall, crazy, uber.....Carebear! :P Any assumptions I'd had coming into to this game regarding how other people would behave I've chucked right the hell out the frickin' window!

I don't engage in PVP. I have a well developed sense of empathy for the people at the keyboards who play this brutal game and I treat them the way I would like to treated, even if it gets me killed. I don't particularly like getting killed, but there's no point in complaining about it either. I guess my personal notion of post-apocalypse survival is not just about my survival, but survival of the species. There are 626,166 unique players in DayZ. I see this number as the DayZ world population. The number of murders is 2,250,066. Human extinction has occured 3 times! Arguments based on realism are moot.

I don't understand the rampant PVP in this game, particularly sniping just to kill. I don't understand NASCAR fans. PVPers may not understand my way of playing. NASCAR fans may not understand my love of college football. That's okay... it really is. We all come from different places, philosophically, gaming experience, life experience - all of which play a role in how different players approach gameplay in DayZ. What's fantastic about it is that there is room in this DayZ world to roll however it is you want to roll, with the added bonus of experiencing genuine, real-life, gut-wrenching emotions. I don't care for the "I died >:(" whining posts either, but I do enjoy reading the well thought out ideas of people both for and against PVP.

Again it seems to me that an unwillingness to let go of preconceived notions about how everything and everybody should be, is what causes so much of the angst for so many cranky forum members.

5 beans up... I would give that many if I could. I wish more people on the forums are as mature as you are.

[amudkipz 46]

If you shoot because you're scared you need to man the fuck up. Saying others are babies for not shooting on sight is pathetic and stupid. But that's the way it works so we just bend over and take it because saying you don't like getting shot by people who are scared of interaction is taboo here. Shoot on sight is for those unwilling to take any risk. Will there be bandits? Yes, and there should be, but shooting another player should be an act of desperation, not a necessity for survival. I'm not for changing the game, I'm for changing the playerbase. You are supposed to die, but not know when, anytime 2 players meet, someone dies or disconnects, there are almost no exceptions.

Edited July 19, 2012 by amudkipz

[REVOLT (DayZ) 12]

The problem is there is no consequence for bandits and no way to communicate a truce before you are shot in the back of the head. People want a simulation and I am sorry but everyone would not be shooting everyone in a situation like this. Most people would be happy to see another survivor.

It's not getting killed that is the problem. It's that there is no way to find people that don't want to kill everyone and their mother.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

Fix alt+F4 logging out and about 40%+ of the combat would not happen. People would think twice before opening fire if they didn't know they could Alt+f4 out of the game instantly should they fuck up and not get a instant kill. There's your repercussions "I can actually die if i engage in combat because i wont be able to log out for 5 minutes"

Edited July 19, 2012 by itputsthelotion

[Necrofix 16]

I can almost taste the tears of all the carebears

[Andrej Dudev 50]

Searching for excuses over excuses to justify a behavior.

Why are you still arguing about it?

OH HAHA! Good retort to any of the arguments that blew you away!

http://www.funnyzone...on-clapping.gif

Oh wait, no.

U mad, dude.

[w_epley 37]

Well put sir, we rarely see rational posts.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

Searching for excuses over excuses to justify a behavior.

Why are you still arguing about it?

U mad, dude.

What's there to be mad about? You're an idiot who is so stupid he doesn't even realise he is. Anyone who's angry at someone like that is mean. No, I think you need carers to help you go to the toilet and to show you that the pointy end of the fork goes into the food not your hand.

• Your argument has been that this game needs something to change so that PVP isn't as rampant.
  

• My argument has been, it's a PvP sandbox game -- the users should control what happens in the game not some arbitrary artificial constraint.
  

Yet after all my posts you retort by claiming that it's me that's "pushing my ideals onto others". Me that wants to impose some sort of restraint on the play style of others. What? Are you meta troll?

[Hoogley 13]

Fix alt+F4 logging out and about 40%+ of the combat would not happen. People would think twice before opening fire if they didn't know they could Alt+f4 out of the game instantly should they fuck up and not get a instant kill. There's your repercussions "I can actually die if i engage in combat because i wont be able to log out for 5 minutes"

Yeah. I do agree with this. It needs to be MORE hardcore, not less. That would help. I've been reading post for a couple of days now; is it getting killed that people hate, or getting killed by snipers? I reckon the military grade kit should be harder to find. Ammo should be harder to find. Piss tents off until they're fixed, and sort out alt+F4; replicators & teleporting belong in Star Trek, not DayZ.

[GodOfGrain 191]

My being killed by another player as outlined above is perfectly acceptable to me.

However, my inadvertently straying into the kill zone of some poopsock sniper with one hand on his mouse and the other on his knob, does not constitute an “encounter”, nor does being 600m away with my back to them, legitimately constitute my being in anyone’s “presence”. Under these circumstances, I refuse to excuse the all too common reaction of their immediately hitting the LMB, and am righteously pissed off when it inevitably happens.

I just don’t make threads about it.

Didn't happen to me once in a lot of hours of gameplay.

There are cases where you die (from other players) without any mistake on your side.

But this is really rare.

[Virfortis 111]

KoS supporters miss the whole concept of an online game. Not only that, they say to treat everyone as KoS and if you die it was your fault.

So in other words, it's your fault for trying to interact with people.

On an online game

With other people

........Anyone else seeing why DayZ is pointless now? I might as well be playing Armory.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

KoS supporters miss the whole concept of an online game. Not only that, they say to treat everyone as KoS and if you die it was your fault.

So in other words, it's your fault for trying to interact with people.

On an online game

With other people

........Anyone else seeing why DayZ is pointless now? I might as well be playing Armory.

What part of dayz beyond it being multiplayer makes you think that it's a 3D habo hotel where you log in purely to make "internet buddies"?

[gizm0 96]

imo the majority of whiners are playing with the wrong mindset.

you're not advised to barge into a town, blasting away the zombies with your lee enfield then loot the entire place. you're advised to approach from a hill or forest and survey the area for a while, looking for other players.

imagine yourself in a hypothetical real life zombie apocalypse, if you come accross a total stranger with a gun - you're certainly not going to trust him. he probably won't have a massive sign around his neck reading "i'm a murderer!". if you see he's in a group or well equipped then you'd be wise to hide and avoid confrontation (unless you're desperately low on supplies perhaps). if you're cornered then you might be forced to shoot him, in fear for your own life.

yes, it is paranoia... but that is what makes dayz so unique and thrilling... the times i've been alone and spotted a group of 2-3 guys, followed them and waited for an opportunity to strike, then deciding that it wasn't worth it and turning away. those guys totally unaware that they were possibly moments away from a shower of bullets.

i totally understand the pvp frustration, but a great piece of advice is to just explore the northern airfields until you find a base camp of a massive group (they often farm those airfields/barracks and therefore need tents to stash nearby) - then every time you die just head there and steal their stuff. amazing equipment at your fingertips - after about 30 minutes of navigating through wilderness.

Your right about they wouldn't have a huge sign saying they are but you would get a gut feeling weather or not you can trust the guy as well as how he acts and talks, as well as body movements and other subtleties that can not be represented in-game without forcing them upon the player.

I hate how dayz is black and white with no grey, I hate the KOS mentilty and how players are saying if you want to group up, do it out of game. Well grouping should be 100% possible and supported in-game, meta-gaming shouldn't be needed to be a friendly player cause it certainly isn't needed for bandits or KOS playstyles.

Edit: the fear of pvp is needed but KOS isn't.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Orthus

[soapmak3r 677]

The only problem that I have with PvP is that it is impossible to know if the other person is friendly not.

If I know someone isn't friendly, I'll shoot them and have no problem with that.

If I see someone kill another player to loot them, I have no problem killing them.

If I see someone camping somewhere with a sniper rifle and killing people for pleasure, I have no problem killing them.

If I shoot some guy out of fear that he might shoot me, but I don't know if he is actually hostile or not...I wouldn't be cool with that.

Mostly I just watch people and keep them in my sights. Most other players will never even know I was there.

[kingfury4 65]

I haven't played DayZ as of it, my PC would melt if I tried.But here's what I think of it, kill on sight is fair, It's removing a potential threat.The only time I see it as really bad is when It's a fresh spawn who has no weapons.

[skyter 299]

I haven't played DayZ as of it, my PC would melt if I tried.But here's what I think of it, kill on sight is fair, It's removing a potential threat.The only time I see it as really bad is when It's a fresh spawn who has no weapons.

GTFO of here if you've never played the game/

you can't levy any kind of input one way or the other when you haven't played the fucking game.

People are so retarded it's unbelievable.

[skyter 299]

What's there to be mad about? You're an idiot who is so stupid he doesn't even realise he is. Anyone who's angry at someone like that is mean. No, I think you need carers to help you go to the toilet and to show you that the pointy end of the fork goes into the food not your hand.

• Your argument has been that this game needs something to change so that PVP isn't as rampant.
  

• My argument has been, it's a PvP sandbox game -- the users should control what happens in the game not some arbitrary artificial constraint.
  

Yet after all my posts you retort by claiming that it's me that's "pushing my ideals onto others". Me that wants to impose some sort of restraint on the play style of others. What? Are you meta troll?

your play style is the law of the land right now because it's so prevalent. Attempting anything else most assuredly ends in a swift death. If one play style makes other play styles un-playable, by process of elimination and on the current game model; yes you're forcing people to play your way, whether intentional or not.

[TheMachine 803]

I'm not hearing very many suggestions from people who dislike PvP, it's all oohing and aahing again.

Remember the 3 golden tenants.

1. You encounter another player.

2. That player kills you.

3. You don't like being killed.

Forget the Shakespearian monologues of how one particular death was 'unfair' in your mind and cut to the chase.

What do YOU think should be done about it?

[Freust 20]

PvP is a normal aspect of the game. Sure, if I die to a player I rage a little, but I respawn, go to Berezino, gear up and move along.

[Deuzerre 64]

I have theorically no problem wit PvP. Or, more clearly, I'm against punishing for PvP.

It is intended to be part of the experience. The fact that you can't trust eveybody.

BUT currently, it is trust no one. Simple as that. When you notice someone, you roughly have a 90% chance to have him shoot you once he notices you because one or several of those: PvP player / shoots on sight as he's been killed several times / thinks it's pro to backstab / wants your loot. So either you avoid the area or kill him. You can't just approach him, and ask as you used to be able to.

I'm against that fact that everyone but me will kill for sport or just annoyance of having been shot before. You just can't interact, find someone and even partially trust him/her. This occurence is so rare that it's not worth mentioning.

There is no incentive for other types of gameplay. Loot is much easier to find on a dead body. You have a PK count. No healing / bandaging count. Noting to promote any other type of gameplay without a premade group.

And yes, I really thing teamspeak and similars hurt the game a lot. As people can just speak in a secured fashion, they don't even need to interact with anyone out there.