Hoogley

Ha ha. Man, I've realised something. What you guys are all arguing about in here is basically the problems of the world. All the people who play aggressively and competitively are calling the shots, have all of the power, and have the loot. Some abuse their power to keep themselves at the top. Some cheat to win. Some give little or no value to the lives of others. A lot of people who don't necessarily start off in a competitive mindset end up joining in anyway, just so they don't end up losing out. Some people consider the way the game is being played as wrong or unfair, and argue loudly for stricter rules to balance the playing field. A very few manage to maintain a philanthropic idealism in the way they play the game, but this is the hardest way to play, [edit] and they are labelled as "carebears", [/edit] so most don't. So, Dean has created an allegorical real world simulator, with zombies. Awesome. Good luck guys; sort out your problems in DayZ, and the world could end up a better place for it. I'm going to keep playing, in case Neo shows up. ;)

Like I said, more of that action.

The pirate version: "What in Davy Jones' locker did ye just bark at me, ye scurvy bilgerat? I'll have ye know I be the meanest cutthroat on the seven seas, and I've led numerous raids on fishing villages, and raped over 300 wenches. I be trained in hit-and-run pillaging and be the deadliest with a pistol of all the captains on the high seas. Ye be nothing to me but another source o' swag. I'll have yer guts for garters and keel haul ye like never been done before, hear me true. You think ye can hide behind your newfangled computing device? Think twice on that, scallywag. As we parley I be contacting my secret network o' pirates across the sea and yer port is being tracked right now so ye better prepare for the typhoon, weevil. The kind o' monsoon that'll wipe ye off the map. You're sharkbait, fool. I can sail anywhere, in any waters, and can kill ye in o'er seven hundred ways, and that be just with me hook and fist. Not only do I be top o' the line with a cutlass, but I have an entire pirate fleet at my beck and call and I'll damned sure use it all to wipe yer arse off o' the world, ye dog. If only ye had had the foresight to know what devilish wrath your jibe was about to incur, ye might have belayed the comment. But ye couldn't, ye didn't, and now ye'll pay the ultimate toll, you buffoon. I'll shit fury all over ye and ye'll drown in the depths o' it. You're fish food now." Ha ha! I was following this, and had read a few of your other posts concerning, which where pretty level headed. Then I read that one and thought, "wow, waaaay over there, on the other side of sane. Maybe I was wrong about this guy.". Fooled me. Funny shit.

Q: Do you think you'll ever find a way to satisfy both the calls for continued hardcore PvP and the calls for mechanics to support on-the-fly co-op, without watering down any of the current elements that make the game so compelling, and is a change in that direction even something you think is necessary for the future success of the game/mod?

Yeah. I do agree with this. It needs to be MORE hardcore, not less. That would help. I've been reading post for a couple of days now; is it getting killed that people hate, or getting killed by snipers? I reckon the military grade kit should be harder to find. Ammo should be harder to find. Piss tents off until they're fixed, and sort out alt+F4; replicators & teleporting belong in Star Trek, not DayZ.

I'm sorry, man, but I don't agree. Honestly, answer this; do you really question whether you should or shouldn't engage someone you encounter? I bet you don't. You even said that you play as a bandit. And even if you don't play as a bandit, nobody knows if the other person is a bandit, so most people just kill the other person, not struggle with the moral quandary of whether or not they should take this person's life (allegory: mess with their fun). Killing the other person is the safe answer. I sure as hell do it, and without hesitation. I wouldn't say I'm a bandit, because I don't go out of my way to kill other players, but if they get in my space, I'm going to fuck them up. Period. Me or them. THAT's survival. That is fucking awesome. That's where the tension comes from. It's not from the question, "is this guy a bandit?", it's from the question, "how do I kill this guy and walk out alive?". That's what's going to make me keep playing this game. If anything, I'd like to see more melee and less long range sniping. I want to ruin people's day up close and personal.

Yeah, I think this is a valid point. The unforgiving nature of this game is definitely what makes it interesting. PvP is, if not THE heart of it, at least one of the chambers.

I'm still not convinced that anything's broken, but I haven't been playing that long. I think the issue that some people are trying, and failing, to express clearly is that they wish there was an option to killing other players. At the moment, the paranoia is so thick that people mostly shoot first, bandit or not. They'd like some way to identify PvP thirsty players vs non-PvP players, so they have the option to co-op. The difficulty of gaining anything in this game means that you aren't going to trust anyone you don't know if there's any chance they'll shoot you in the back and take your stuff. So people just kill each other, because it's easier. The funny thing is, it's psychology that causes a lot of the problem, not game mechanics, or even the bandits. Non-bandits kill each other, BY CHOICE, because they're afraid to trust each other. It's a self-fulfiling prophecy. The bandit players must think it's hysterical. I get the feeling Rocket does, too. As it stands, the only people most players are going to trust are people they know. Some players - maybe those who don't have friends who play DayZ - are looking for a way around that. Is that a bad thing? Should there be some way that co-op mined people can ID each other so they can play co-op? And in the end, this might be the meat of the argument from the opposing side. It's not the bandits with the problem, so they don't get why they have to be branded for their style of play, when it's the other side who has the issue. Am I close to the mark for anyone?

Yeah, I agree. That's my thoughts on the next experiment Rocket should try out. Give people the choice to ID themselves as bandits or not, and see if they take it. Like I said, I'm not sure why a bandit would care if they are visually identifiable, since there's only a limited number of circumstances where it would be a hindrance. At least this way, though, you're giving people the option, rather than forcing it on them. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people chose to skin as a bandit, just to prove they're badass. Particularly if you make the bandit skin look badass. There's also a secondary benefit to this system, if you think about it; bandits and survivors alike can pay out on anyone who chooses to skin as a survivor but play like a bandit.

I've got to say, I'm not actually sure why the majority of bandits would care if they can be identified as bandits. The argument that people will be able to tell from a distance that you're a bandit, and will shoot you on sight doesn't really hold water. Most players shoot people they don't know on sight at the moment, anyway, don't they? Snipers don't even get seen, so why does it matter? Robbers, or muggers, or highwaymen, or whatever you want to call them, shouldn't care, because by the time people can see you you're pointing a gun in their face anyway; so why should it matter? In fact, the only people it should matter to is the traitors; the people who insinuate themselves into a group and then shoot people in the back. They have the most to lose, as far I can see (and if they were the loudest against the idea of being identified, it wouldn't surprise me). Is it just the idea of being irreversibly branded that irks people? Any bandits want to feedback on this? I'm really interested. Sorry, wrong thread for that though. Just gets me thinking. Heartbeats aren't a system I can see myself utilising to any great degree. I'm not sure the lack of a heartbeat sound when I'm lining someone up in my crosshairs, particularly when they are watching me line them up in my crosshairs, is going to make me any more friends. See what I'm saying?

Yeah, man. Big fan. In fact, that's why I got DayZ. People said that you could teleport and use replicators. I thought it was a Star Trek simulator.

I have to say that in usual game terms and even real life social terms, I'm normally a "live and let live" kind of guy. I'm the type who wouldn't kill the the Little Sisters. However, it didn't take me long to develop a "kill them before they kill you" attitude in DayZ. Interestingly, I don't really feel any remorse or moral quandary about it IN THIS GAME. I think you're mostly forced into that attitude by all of the things people have mentioned - exploits, lack of supportive mechanics, and douchbaggery. I might be wrong, but I tend to think that a lot of people would either like to be robbed and/or killed in a more interesting way than sniped from the tree line, or have the exploits stitched up so that they themselves can be a little more creative and maybe even a little less fatal in their banditry. Not everyone has the balls to pull off a robbery like the guy in the vid' a few posts up though, and you're still going to have a good percent of players who would rather not take the chance and just kill from afar, people indiscriminately killing for shits and giggles, and cheats. For me, up close and personal is where the real thrill of the PvP in this game exists. In one encounter, I hid in a building with an axe when I heard someone outside shooting. I closed the door, and waited to see if they'd pass, but the guy opened the door and came in, fully armed and ready for looting. I took to his face with my axe, and though he killed me in the end, I like to think that guy shit his pants when I jumped out swinging. I want more of that action.

Now, THAT is emergent gameplay.

Survivor's Log, Day 14235, Said something stupid on the Internet. Now all hope is lost ...