Bandit/Survivor Morphing to be removed

[miqueloz 33]

Many people are implying a "massive deathmatch" would be a bad thing. That's what a zombie apocalypse like this should be. You can't trust anyone. It's often beneficial to kill people so you can get their stuff and survive longer. Pretty much every zombie apocalypse movie/book out there has "bandits" as a major element. And they rarely choose to wear uniform clothes that say "shoot me"....

But.

Even in this "nightmare scenario" where it turns into a massive deathmatch, teaming up would still have its (huge) benefits, so people would still take the risk quite often even if they don't know who to trust. Not to mention that shooting at someone who is not definitely hostile could lead to you dying if you miss, even if you otherwise wouldn't have.

You could also argue that the bandit skin makes the game more of a deathmatch, since if you kill in self-defense a couple times, you'll be "KOS" for other players and thus you'll be forced to "deathmatch" to survive.

[csimike 0]

I think to add clothes to the game is a good idea as it gives more realism to the game.

I also think the Humanity stat was also a good idea and you should still keep it in the game. I suggest to keep the humanity stats, but instead of effecting how players look like, which is unrealistic, the game should have a real time Wanted Board in cities where it would show who is the Most Wanted player on the server or a top 5 list. It could also a sketch or mugshot od the player based on the clothes that the player had on when joined the server.

I love the mod and thanks for creating something different.

[Arnoldio 2]

With interchangeable chlotes, its good.

Though for optimum, id separate player groups in 3 classes. Bandit, Survivor, Militia. More skins for each, for diversity. Different classes have different humanity penalties. (0,+, ++). If you are a Survivor, and kill another survivor, you get + ammount, if you kill militia, you get ++ penalty, but if you kill a bandit, you dont get penalised.

Survivor (Neutral) - Bandit(0)|Survivor(+)|Militia(++)

Bandit(Bad) - Bandit(+)|Survivor(++)|Militia(++)

Militia(Good) - Bandit(0)|Survivor(++)|Militia(++)

So Survivors are the ordinary players, Bandits are bandits, mind of their own and Militia are bandit hunters, protectors of Survivors, so to speak.

What profit would this bring, i dont really know, but some brainstorming doesn hurt. :D

[ArcheusCross 0]

Hmmm. Registered to post this.

I agree with what rocket wants to do but on the other hand i don't want it to devolve into a tk fest with no meaning. This is just an idea so bear with me as i'm thinking of ideas.

So here it is: Why not have an option, such as the check pulse option, to check someones bag? And if they have a low humanity make it show text in the chat window that you see blood stains all over their items inside?

This will do a few things. For one, the player will have to submit for a check.. and if they don't they are obviously hiding something. And lets say for instance they do submit and you find bloody items? Well they have to expain themselves.. perhaps they could say it was self defense? Perhaps what they said would be true.. but it would make you paranoid a bit and keep them in front of you instead of behind. Thus making them earn your trust.

I mean after all.... if someones really hell bent on taking your items they will do so regardless of skin guys.. and half the time you wont even get a chance to see said skin... so the bandit skin is a moot point really.

Anyway just my two cents.

[dogsbd 12]

IT"S ALPHA PEOPLE. ALPHA ALPHA ALPHA!!!!!

Now' date=' back to your regularly scheduled whining :)

[/quote']

It is alpha, but the players are entitled to their opinions and giving feedback and criticism (which on this issue, has actually been pretty constructive with tons of ideas suggested), and if people aren't supposed to speak out negatively to an idea or concept, what's the point of the forum?

It's just so stupid how people write anything off that disagrees with an idea as whining. Some people are still going to play, they just think an idea might miss the mark or need improvement. It's not all whining.

I agree. It makes discussions impossible if you are going to be called a whiner every time you disagree with something.

No, some of it is whining even when I agree with the basic premise of the poster. It isn't what some people are saying it is HOW they are saying it. The overly dramatic "THIS CHANGE WILL DESTROY THE COMMUNITY" type postings are ridiculous. Why? Because this is ALPHA!

[Reverant 1]

Let losing humanity increase the blood stench of players' date=' making them easier to find for zombies!

[/quote']

This is the best idea in the whole thread. Not sure how realistic it would be, though...maybe by killing people, you are more blood-stained? Is that the idea?

Correct. Basically, you *bloody* your hands as you kill and pillage. I'm assuming zombies are after fresh bodies. If you pop that meat sack, the smell spills out with the blood. So, a fresh player corpse could alert them. Or, as you root around the remains of a player that you've killed, you get blood on your body that alerts them. This is the *realistic* take, though.

As a game mechanic, I just think it would be cool if zombies found you easier the more *evil* you became. (And yes, continuously shooting other people in "self-defense" is a socially wicked act. Stop kidding yourselves, you George Zimmermans!)

[Dhal (DayZ) 3]

Im pretty dubious about this "its full of CoD players' date=' everyone just shoots on sight". The number just don't support it. Do you get backstabbed? Yes you do. That is part of the tension and the learning. You need to be fucking careful. Bandit skins were an interesting attempt but they did not achieve what was desired of them, and they're standing in the way of another feature... choosing your own skin. So we fucked that shit right off.

[/quote']

I love this guy, don't ever change. You might be the most sensible developer I've ever seen communicate with a community in our own language.

Full loot + FFA PvP is going to attract a niche demographic to this game regardless of it being FPS, MMO, w/e. This niche will always be largely outweighed by the opposition. The PK element in this game is outstanding, simply unmatched/unrivaled by any game to release in 3 years. Outside of Darkfall, and MO nothing comes close for 10 years (since Shadowbane/UO).

It's a model that is too much of a risk for investors to stand behind with large sums of money to fund a fully polished game, so I'm excited to participate in any fashion testing the balance of how the dynamic is adjusted til it feels right.

Having the ability to appear how you want is awesome on several levels;

• Clans can identify each other in the fray quickly
  
• Clans can be quickly identified after becoming notorious
  
• Clans can be infiltrated in the fray
  
• Adds an element of someone who happens to wear the attire of a notorious PK clan, and gets NPKed because of it
  
• Adds confusion and more emotional distress of who's friendly or not
  
• Adds freedom to police other players, if they're not following 'unwritten laws' that may jeopardize your own survival or a group you are with
  

Just to name a few

[Staker (DayZ) 0]

I'm not personally too much into the complete change of skin when turning into a "bandit" anyway, so I like the changes. I don't think it will turn into a huge DM fest, like some seem to worry, but it will be interesting to see what will happen when the changes actually take place.

However, if a similar system needs to be there, perhaps a distinguishable marking on chest, a face painting, a separate armband, a vest of some sort, or something like that could be implemented (preferably on front side of the player model, so that identifying a target would require "eye contact"). In a game, there will always be a lack of reliable communication, at least to some extent, and I don't think it's the best option to force a large chunk of the player base to make decisions, like whether to kill a man or not, solely on conjectures and guesses.

For me, having a wide range of different player skins is a big factor in terms of immersion and realistic-ish feel, thus I'd hope spawning people's clothes to have more varying features too. Being very unfamiliar with Arma II overall, I don't know if there's any kind of a technical limitation with the amount of different kinds of player skins and such, though.

[Dylan(Pezix) 0]

I love it!!, no more side choosing, I think this will force players to use the approach while walking with gun down, saluting, and sitting to show your intentions with other players. Everytime I want to be friendly with someone I always approach with my gun down as others should requesting a meet up. People don't like guns pointed at them in real life people don't like it on Day Z... realism.. I love it.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

If you have friends (or trusted persons that you know outside of the game) it's fine, but they are the minority, so the whole rest will be bandits with angel faces. :)

I just need you to trust me for more than 10 seconds, then i'll shot you in the head; so what's the other option? Do not trust anyone, it means never and ever have any social activity with anyone (being lonewolf) .. it's not that attractive.

So i agree on the fact that it will be more like the real life.. but only thorical, in real life you wouldn't have 80% of newbies spawing and start shooting everywhere only because they can respawn 1 minute later.

So there must be an indicator to tell you the "type" of person you are, otherwise it's crazy easy to fool you.. again: i only need half second to shot at you, and you believe to react in time 100% of the times? Naaaa.

[Aerograt 0]

I love it!!' date=' no more side choosing, I think this will force players to use the approach while walking with gun down, saluting, and sitting to show your intentions with other players. Everytime I want to be friendly with someone I always approach with my gun down as others should requesting a meet up. People don't like guns pointed at them in real life people don't like it on Day Z... realism.. I love it.

[/quote']

There needs to be a way to lower pistols, though.

[Luieburger 15]

There needs to be a way to lower pistols' date=' though.

[/quote']

There needs to be a way to raise and lower both pistols and long-arms while crounching and standing. Currently you can lower only long-arms while crounching or standing, but to raise them you have to stand first. It's kinda annoying.

EDIT: Obviously while prone there is not much raising or lowering of either firearm type that could be done. You would have to make a new animation for it probably.

[anthony_henson2003@yahoo.com 33]

cant wait this will make it so much more fun :)

[steve.j.austin@comcast.net 0]

(And yes' date=' continuously shooting other people in "self-defense" is a socially wicked act. Stop kidding yourselves, you George Zimmermans!)

[/quote']

That offended me bro. Why don't you keep your opinions to yourself. If you were trying to be funny, you fail.

[dogsbd 12]

(And yes' date=' continuously shooting other people in "self-defense" is a socially wicked act. Stop kidding yourselves, you George Zimmermans!)

[/quote']

That offended me bro. Why don't you keep your opinions to yourself. If you were trying to be funny, you fail.

Ignore the ignorant, especially since the evidence is now beginning to show that George Zimmerman actually acted in self defense, therefore he was really paying people a compliment by comparing us to Mr Zimmerman!

[NitroPheonix 0]

All you people saying being able to tell bandits from survivors is a good thing you are batshit stupid. First of all in the real world you could tell what someone was going to do by they're clothes so if they're wasn't the bandits system you would have to use better judgment. I think this idea is perfect because alot of people went bandit for the skin or defending they're friends so all this shoot bandits on sight is annoying because I get killed by survivors more than I do bandits. I think this might lower the KOS which would be alot better that way you can actually get shit done instead of being killed every 15 minutes for being a bandit.

[ComboBreaker 9]

Rocket,morphing is a terrible idea,at least at this moment.

While I think that it adds to realism, making survivors and bandits look the same makes banditism an absolite and perfect form of survival.You get only benefits by beeing a bandit.

Which basically means that game will turn into a deathmatch.

Bandits and survivors should have been morphed only after finished humanity system.

Edit: Also,Rocket,do you understand that you are ruining interesting metagame like survivors organising into a "Law enforcing forces" and bandits counteracting them with brutal,unorganised squads and tactics?It'd be so awesome to see these two forces clash,but thanks to this change it will not be possible.

/Edit

But all in all,you are the creator and you need experementation to perfect DayZ,so Im understand why you are doing this.(I hope)

[JeSuisUneSurvivante 1]

*sigh*

I really liked the fact that if I had an hour or so off, I could just log into Day Z by myself and have a great gaming experience with surprisingly deep interactions with any survivors I met: the initial suspicion and mistrust when meeting someone, the relief, betrayal or gratitude afterwards. Teaming up with complete strangers. Every act of cooperation or betrayal (and mostly, it's been cooperation!) undertaken within the game itself.

The way I see this change going is making this just... yet another clanfest.

With the only disadvantage to killing everyone you meet on sight gone (but with the advantages to doing it still remaining), the only way you're ever going to able to team up with another survivor is if you're already cooperating with them outside the game. So much less interesting. So much more of a hassle.

[D3lit3 10]

I'm not quite sure what there is to test even. Using simple logic one could come to the conclusion of what would happen if morphing is removed. IT doesn't take a goddamn rocket scientist to tell you that this is not really an alpha test that is needed.

"Screw it, let's see how people react to this", you say. Alright, I'll bite.

HOW THE FUCK ELSE CAN THEY REACT? There's 2 options, they're either going to shoot on sight or they won't. There isn't going to be some fucking revelatory discovery when morphing is removed, because it won't change anything.

[[bsm]-ricciardino- 10]

Im pretty dubious about this "its full of CoD players' date=' everyone just shoots on sight". The number just don't support it. Do you get backstabbed? Yes you do. That is part of the tension and the learning. You need to be fucking careful. Bandit skins were an interesting attempt but they did not achieve what was desired of them, and they're standing in the way of another feature... choosing your own skin. So we fucked that shit right off.

[/quote']

I love this guy, don't ever change. You might be the most sensible developer I've ever seen communicate with a community in our own language.

Full loot + FFA PvP is going to attract a niche demographic to this game regardless of it being FPS, MMO, w/e. This niche will always be largely outweighed by the opposition. The PK element in this game is outstanding, simply unmatched/unrivaled by any game to release in 3 years. Outside of Darkfall, and MO nothing comes close for 10 years (since Shadowbane/UO).

It's a model that is too much of a risk for investors to stand behind with large sums of money to fund a fully polished game, so I'm excited to participate in any fashion testing the balance of how the dynamic is adjusted til it feels right.

Having the ability to appear how you want is awesome on several levels;

• Clans can identify each other in the fray quickly
  
• Clans can be quickly identified after becoming notorious
  
• Clans can be infiltrated in the fray
  
• Adds an element of someone who happens to wear the attire of a notorious PK clan, and gets NPKed because of it
  
• Adds confusion and more emotional distress of who's friendly or not
  
• Adds freedom to police other players, if they're not following 'unwritten laws' that may jeopardize your own survival or a group you are with
  

Just to name a few

Completely agree with you.

[Lowlightt 0]

So heres the idea folks. Let's face it with how this game is currently designed there is no server side ness. People jump from server to server all the time. So having something server side in regards to bounties or the such is pointless. Now someone mentioned a swell idea that you could witness murders and such and pass those on to other survivors via trade. (WONDERFUL) Yet we can already sort of do this. So heres what we do.

Open up a survivor board. A simple forum board. People post other players ids and they say our bandits and why or whatever. Bandits of course will come on and say regular people are bandits as well. No skins means you can't really ever trust whats on it (like real life). Personally I would prefer it be an open forum where anyone can delete any post or edit any post as to mimic real world message boards (which lets face it is what survivors would use to communicate during a zombie apocalypse) So that should solve most problems by presenting more.

[Kaw 23]

I haven't read all the replies on this thread, so what I am going to say may have already been said many times over, but I wish to express my concern over this change.

As it stands the Survivor/Bandit system is flawed( there no denying that) ...for self defense bandits and those who became bandits only because there negative humanity had gotten so low that they just gave up trying to be good an took on the "life style" of a bandit. But for those of us who are true bandit the lack of a different skin(while more realistic) will make it so that no one can be trusted. Right now survivors(for the most part) trust other survivors, an well shoot bandits.

With bandit skins removed, no one will be able to trust others an it is my feelings that Day Z will turn into a something of a death match...with zombies, an the group surviving dynamic will be left to clans, an those who know ppl outside of this game. The whole trusting an teaming up with other players will be left behind. Yes something needs to be done that much is true. But I think that taking out the bandit skins all together is a bad idea. There has to be some other way of dealing with this other then completely scraping "Humanity" which I believe could be something great an complex with just the right construct around it.

This is only my opinion, for all I know removing the skin could end up working out great. I just wanted to "voice" what I feel what will happen. (also sorry for any grammar mistakes I'm not usually one for writing an blah blah blah)

[pa1n 2]

Let's See How This Goes

[bobda 11]

this is not acceptable' date=' coz now if you choose that you become an bandit it make the things hard to hunt ppl since you will be a known by clothes and that's how's it works

if you remove Morphing the bandits will find that easy to kill ppl

[/quote']

wat

[vredg 0]

In what regard is the current bandit/survivor-system broken?