Bandit/Survivor Morphing to be removed

[SumoS 168]

+1 For the Batman quote

[IDex (DayZ) 4]

There's no way to fight a popular decision: 90% of gamers are casual gamers

If we devs wanted to appeal to newbie casuals we'd still have skins.

[Jerry Gruszecki 26]

The bandit clothing makes the game less A simulator and more a Arcade game, the choice to take it out seems like the right move.

the game as I see it , tries to mimic the real world dynamic , in the real world bad guys don't always advertise their bad, and in a post apocalypticic world most will not drive around like mad max with old hockey masks and jet cars... they are gonna look the same as a survivor . this skin thing is too good vs evil when really most people are a mix of both.

[LumberBack 43]

this is a game, and you cant tell if people act strangely in a game, so having "skins" is what is needed, as this is a game... did i say game enough?

[teamRAVEGREEN 9]

I don't really know if I'm for or against the bandit skins but I just wanted to share an experience that I think is relevant here (kinda). I hope it wasn't brought up previously as I did not read this whole thread.

I started my "online" gaming with UO (Ultima Online) a few years before the whole Trammel world (safe zone...) and when I first started playing this game and heard about the bandit skin, my first thought was Murderers in UO.

This game also made me flash-back to my UO days with the risk of dieing being so great. It is something that I have missed ever since I stopped playing UO many years ago and until DayZ I hadn't played another game that gave me the same rush.

Anyways... Murderers in UO seemed to work very well. People knew at first sight you were a bad guy, but it didn't stop interaction between regulars and Murderers to some extent. There were groups of people that role-played as Murderers and there were also "good guys" that hunted Murderers.

The Murderer system in UO is a little more complex than I am describing here and perhaps a bit too harsh but it made you think about becoming one. I'm not saying we need this type of a system but I just wanted to share for conversations sake.

DayZ is a lot more brutal in that one accurate shot and you're dead, where as in UO it wasn't quite so easy to die, so that is a pretty big difference, but in both games death was pretty bad in that you usually lost everything.

If we had some sort of system in place (visual or otherwise) I think it would promote others to maybe think more about whether to shoot first or to try to communicate... or maybe not.

I still debate it ALMOST every time I see someone but I think a lot of people have a couple of bad experiences with players murdering them and are no longer taking a chance. Which, in my opinion, just spreads the "shoot first" mentality even more.

[Irenicus (DayZ) 289]

this is a game' date=' and you cant tell if people act strangely in a game, so having "skins" is what is needed, as this is a game... did i say game enough?

[/quote']

Then you have not grasped what is trying to be achieved by this experiment in gaming and just want it to be like every other game.....this isn't Counter-Strike, you shouldn't be able to tell who is friend or foe, and that's part of what makes it amazing!

Also, it's not true that "you can't tell if people act strangely in game".. Why can't you? I can. Watch, observe and also, direct chat is being used a lot, especially on the more immersive servers which don't have any text chat (except direct). Direct voice chat is awesome. I came across a couple of guys earlier tonight, and I had no gun just an axe. They both had guns. One of them shouted out to me to hold it and put my axe away, or he would drop me. I did so, and then proceeded to put my hands up (surrender) to show my good intent. After a short tense moment, we ended up banding together for a while then went our seperate ways. Now I could tell they were genuine about being friendly once we got past the inital encounter, from the tone of voice etc....so my point is, you CAN tell. If you're good at picking up little variations in tone of voice, choice of words etc, then you will be good at it in the game. Just like if you are good at navigating by the sun/stars, you will be good at it in game. Real Life skills actually translate quite well into this game

Yes it's a game, but a different kind of game. If you prefer knowing friend from foe, play CoD or CS. you will have more fun.

So, I'm quite happy with the decision that's been made. Picking up skins will be better as it allows us to choose.

[grrinc 7]

Skins need to return, maybe in a different way though. In real life, when making a judgment call on a persons character, we can use our wits and judgment by observing the subtle nuances of human behavior. The Arma engine does not facilitate a method in which we can use our 'gut feeling'. A small graphic clue that is only observable up close will be the best way to simulate that interaction people will have when weighing each other up.

This is an idea I had that I thought was compromise....

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=26316

[Kageru 18]

It would be a more interesting game if it was PK vs Anti-PK vs survivor. At the moment's it's just a free for all and fairly meaningless because it is almost always the right call to kill or avoid any other player (barring pre-set groups).

There's no "story" or "psychology" in that.

[blitzcloud 1]

There's no way to fight a popular decision: 90% of gamers are casual gamers

If we devs wanted to appeal to newbie casuals we'd still have skins.

So who are they catering, player killer veterans that didn't want to be spotted on sight so they can still shoot first?

Honestly, the idea that rocket had of giving a loud heartbeat sound to bandits (that don't know they are bandits or not) is probably the best idea. On long range, the same as anyone else. On close quarters... "there's something fishy about this dude."

[dimak415 62]

I completely disagree. I was knocked out at the docks when I was super newb and had nothing, and was saved by a dude who carried me to safety, bandaged me up and showed me how to play. We have been playing ever since.

[symptom 185]

I completely disagree. I was knocked out at the docks when I was super newb and had nothing' date=' and was saved by a dude who carried me to safety, bandaged me up and showed me how to play. We have been playing ever since.

[/quote']

This is why we need to bring back these bandit skins, and make them bound to the account. If you transition to a bandit and die, you should start with a bandit skin so other players know what you are.

I for one play the role of a bandit and have no problem with players seeing the bandit skin on myself. I want them to know that they are in danger and can either forfeit some food and water and live or I'll kill them and take everything. This is a "survival of the fittest" game and should be treated as such.

We have so many new players that join everyday, that it's almost impossible to tell if a player is going to help you or kill you, until it's too late, and that's the biggest problem most new players are having.

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

You know I've been playing Day Z for a long time and at first I was completely against the bandit skin...but honestly, with it gone for so long, I think the game was better with it.

[callumferguson91@googlemail.com 0]

Bandit skins were good, however, i think the game is better without them, i think the lack of them adds considerable tension to the experience. The addition of the extr skins that you can find is also much better than just the survivor/bandit skins.

I do however think there should be some form of penalty to dissuade people from just killing everyone on sight. As i've now been killed on the beach with the new loadout quite a few times and the pointlessness of it does my head in, before i could sympathise a little with them doing it as they gain some food, water and some painkillers, but there's nothing to gain from killing a new player now, it's just trolling, plain and simple.

This is just my idea and i have no idea about whether it can be implemented or if other people agree with it, but i think that there should be several different loadouts for when players spawn, players with a good level of humanity start with the old kit (beans, water, makarov, bandage, etc.) and the lower a players humanity drops the less stuff they start with, losing the beans first, then the water, eventually leaving them to just start out with a backpack for the real douchebags, having died a few times and experienced the difficulty of starting out with this new gear i think the threat of having even less to start with would make most of the PKers stop to weigh up the pros and cons about they're doing.

[Sunflash 4]

*SNIP*

This is just my idea and i have no idea about whether it can be implemented or if other people agree with it' date=' but i think that there should be several different loadouts for when players spawn, players with a good level of humanity start with the old kit (beans, water, makarov, bandage, etc.) and the lower a players humanity drops the less stuff they start with, losing the beans first, then the water, eventually leaving them to just start out with a backpack for the real douchebags, having died a few times and experienced the difficulty of starting out with this new gear i think the threat of having even less to start with would make most of the PKers stop to weigh up the pros and cons about they're doing.

[/quote']

I like this idea. Let's take it a bit further down the road shall we?

First off let me say I'm a fairly new player, so I will probably miss some obvious bits of 'duh' things. Apologies in advance. Also, 100% of the numbers I'm going to throw out are pulled out of thin air.

So let's have the 'Humanity' meter have a scale of 1-10 in whole number increments(1, 2, 3, etc). Let's also make it where a brand new character on a brand new account(Default) starts at '1' on the Humanity rating(HR-1, shall we say?).

At HR-1, you start with the 'full kit'; whatever that ends up being for balance issues. Going off the example above, let's say the default pack, a makarov with one clip, a flashlight, a bandage, a box of painkillers, a can of food and a can of coke.(Personally I don't think guns on start is a good idea, but i'm workign with what's been suggested.)

As you go further and further up the HR scale, you lose more and more 'starting kit' items. HR-2 might have a half-clip for your gun. HR-3 might also, say, take your painkillers. At HR-10, you've got about as minimal as you can go while still being at least somewhat fair(flashlight and bandage only, maybe?).

The real issue is how to make this a viable, mostly-balanced thing. I believe the trick would be to have the HR scale change on a new life based on how many players you killed IN YOUR PREVIOUS LIFE, after a certain timeframe of life(such that A) you couldn't just spam respawn to reset your meter and B) you couldn't just run head-on into the closest zombie to get killed and reset that way). Say HR-1 is a range of 1-5, while HR-2 is 6-15, HR-3 is 16-25, etc. Whatever the actual scale ranges are should be guesstimated based off the usual average of PKs per life, which I have no clue what it is(considering how 90% of my deaths have been from PKs I want to suspect its high, but no real clue.)

Let me try an example, since I feel I can't talk worth a damn today.

Jim starts playing DayZ. After some inital fumbling as he learns how to play, he decides to go rouge. Stumbling upon a rifle in a deer stand, he proceeds to camp outside some small town near a spawn point and start killing people as they come out of the town to loot them. After about 16 kills or so(sounds kinda high, just roll with it), he's finally killed by another player. When he respawns his HR is about(random scale number, GO) 3. A brief message pops up to inform him why his kit is reduced compared to his orignal kit. Undeterred, he proceeds to right back to his ways of wanton killing. This time, he manages about 7 kills before being murdered. As his kills were LESS than his orignal(HR-2 compared to HR-3), his HR rating for his next life goes down to HR-2, changing his kit approprietly.

I feel like I'm missing some obvious holes, but I've got other stuff I need to go check on so I'm just going to hit post and hope for feedback.

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

Bandit skin, PLEASE! COME BACK!

[Budzilla (DayZ) 2]

I believe that the skin should be optional, so after you kill said amount of players, an option comes up asking if you would like the Bandit skin, or stick to the survivor one.

[aoshi 32]

I only buy arma, when Humanity is gone, By the way, i me friendly and my as50 is too, come to elektro met us

[theozzyoscar333 3]

good,because killing other people who have a akm pointed at your face is not murder, its survival!

[ih8 56]

Just started playing the game and was looking forward to acquiring the bandit skin.

What harm could it possibly have been doing?

[stripes 92]

When I first started playing this game I would try and co-op with other players. Occasionally my trusting nature would lead to my demise but other times the game was good fun.

Since the removal of the bandit skins more often than not other players would try to kill me - for no reason at all. The game has now got to the stage where I take the same approach. 'Shoot on sight' is my philosophy. Trust another player & die.

I had 3 murders yesterday before I was killed. Btw, the players I killed werent doing anything wrong. Such is the current state of the game. Bringing back bandit skins may not be the answer but something certainly needs to be done to change this attitude among most players.

[Honey_Badger (DayZ) 1]

Or if you see someone nearby that hasn't noticed you, you can just leave them alone and hide for a bit until they go on their merry way... That's what I usually do.

I've snuck by so many people I've lost count. Yeah, sometimes they see you and open fire but I still give everyone the benefit of the doubt. The game is supposed to be a simulation of an apocalypse and everyone who just shoots on sight is making all of us look bad :P

[premiumkrap 41]

kinda wish they would bring back the bandit skins or some sort of marker for those that murder others

[lunaraitic 0]

They just need to have a message instead of Blank was killed It should say Blanks was murdered by blank That way you can judge who are the murderers.

[haxi 0]

They just need to have a message instead of Blank was killed It should say Blanks was murdered by blank That way you can judge who are the murderers.

The problem with this is; what if the person that killed the other person was shot at first and merely defending themselves. Then suddenly they are "bad guys" because they killed someone out of defense.

[fallenlegion253 0]

I think bringing back bandit skins is a good idea because survivors would have more of a chance banding together to survive bandit clans if they can tell whos friendly and who isnt.