L85A2 gone, snipers will reign supreme

[idusty 0]

Yeah guys, it takes a little bit of common sence to combat the snipers:

me and 3 mates were playing last night at the NW airfield making ALOT of noise at the firestation killing countless zombies. Obviously this attracted attention and we were soon under sniper fire. The bandit missed his first shot, but we saw it ping off the wall and from this could tell the shooter had to be across the airfield from us!

At this point I was in the hangers and knew that his attention was on the rest of my group keeping his scope fixed on them. I went around the back of the hangers, looped around the airfield through the woods and managed to get behind the sniper (the rough area anyway)

I told my friends to sprint towards the control tower from the firestation across open ground... risky but this could reveal his location to me. As predicted he fired another shot, i heard it extreamly close by and managed to move slowly and get behind him. All i had was an M1911, came up behind the guy and put the full clip into him to make sure.

Just shows you that even with a small bit of teamwork and co-operation you can easily bring down long range targets.. I only had a sidearm and manage to get a sniper roughly 600meters away, just using simple methods of distraction and flanking him, using woodland and keeping low.

[jormando 0]

I've never found a ghillie suit' date=' range finder or gps. Although I've found 3 L85A2's, 2 NVG's, sever different types of sniper rifles and I find 3 vehicles per day.

Spawn chances are that, chance. I got lucky with the thermal scoped gun, but that's been shit on now. HF snipers with your range finders. I'm sure I'll get killed by you soon.

Can we all stop pretending that snipers are not the main group of people who use these things.

Who's pretending what now?

I'm saying that this gun was the Anti-sniper weapon of choice. You had the chance to see them before they can get the drop on you. Balance.

Sorry I didn't realize snipers were not allowed to use them also, because you know something can't be "anti-sniper" if its also a very useful tool for the snipers.

This. The whole "anti-sniper argument" makes no sense whatsoever. I pity the devs if they actually are reading all these posts. The amount of stupidity makes my head hurt.

[nnuu 61]

It will be gone. But the L85 has not been removed from the game.

That's fine as well since it is a terrible gun, as long as the thermal aspect of it is removed then it's all good.

[TractorFiend 58]

So this patch removed my L85A2 from my characters main weapon slot.. What is this shit? Removing weapons that players have risked themselves to get? Why? Carebear poofters having a moan? Screw this.

Sorry' date=' but there is no reason for these types of weapons to be in this game. I have not logged in yet, but I know when I do, my L85 will be gone. Oh well. If NVG's would ever be removed, think how interesting the dynamics would be if we ALL had to rely on a light source to get around. That would be amazing IMHO.

[/quote']

That would kick so much ass.

[slyder73 94]

How was it OP?

It was used for spotting only' date=' some ppl was teaming up, one sniper one spotter, thats fair, Teamwork should result in rewards.....

But ofc, Having a ghillie suit and a sniper killing ppl in cherno and elektro without ANY chance to find you is not op, Oh i love the irony

[/quote']

Do you guys realize how the Arma2 engine works for draw distance? From your persective you may be laying in the grass with a ghillie suit on, seemingly hidden. However, from a distance, distant players only see the grass drawn in their OWN close proximity. From a distance the grass is not drawn. So, the ghillie suit who thinks he is hidden 400 meters away is actually laying there on a bald hillside with no grass from the distant perspective. The ghillie suit actually stands out MORE at distance because it has a larger outline.

Incorrect. Search any video on the matter. If you are in the grass from your perspective, you will be sunken into the grass from any distance.

Not entirely. BI implemented that a couple years ago because the prone players at distance were SO visible. Players do "sink" down into the ground some, but they are stilll very visible to anyone who knows what they are looking for. You can still see head and shoulders and any movement makes the whole body visible for a short time. There is no grass at distance, only up close in perspective.

I think most who play Dayz just don't know this, if they havne't been familiar with Arma2 before.

[oZiix 45]

So this patch removed my L85A2 from my characters main weapon slot.. What is this shit? Removing weapons that players have risked themselves to get? Why? Carebear poofters having a moan? Screw this.

Sorry' date=' but there is no reason for these types of weapons to be in this game. I have not logged in yet, but I know when I do, my L85 will be gone. Oh well. If NVG's would ever be removed, think how interesting the dynamics would be if we ALL had to rely on a light source to get around. That would be amazing IMHO.

[/quote']

NVG's are kinda useless anyway. You can just turn your video and visibility and Gamma setting to max and the only parts that are hard to see is when your in a heavy forest area but its still pretty visible. My server is always on night when most people in the states are on day time so I've played alot at night and only time its hard to see is when its raining heavy.

People would still just up there visual settings basically nvg's right now aren't really that great as is.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

I've never found a ghillie suit' date=' range finder or gps. Although I've found 3 L85A2's, 2 NVG's, sever different types of sniper rifles and I find 3 vehicles per day.

Spawn chances are that, chance. I got lucky with the thermal scoped gun, but that's been shit on now. HF snipers with your range finders. I'm sure I'll get killed by you soon.

Can we all stop pretending that snipers are not the main group of people who use these things.

Who's pretending what now?

I'm saying that this gun was the Anti-sniper weapon of choice. You had the chance to see them before they can get the drop on you. Balance.

Sorry I didn't realize snipers were not allowed to use them also, because you know something can't be "anti-sniper" if its also a very useful tool for the snipers.

This. The whole "anti-sniper argument" makes no sense whatsoever. I pity the devs if they actually are reading all these posts. The amount of stupidity makes my head hurt.

Seriously. And people saying it's "anti bandit", are you trolling?

Want to know what it's "anti"? -- It's fucking Anti-People, that's it.

It's a powerful weapon for spotting people that can be used by anyone to totally trump anyone else who doesn't have one -- Spotting people up to 4km away. Anyone claiming that the game is broken and they can't possibly counter snipers without their easy mode thermal scope is a moron.

I'm not petitioning for its removal, but don't be moaning hard that you can't crutch on it temporarily.

[KWilt 157]

So this patch removed my L85A2 from my characters main weapon slot.. What is this shit? Removing weapons that players have risked themselves to get? Why? Carebear poofters having a moan? Screw this.

Sorry' date=' but there is no reason for these types of weapons to be in this game. I have not logged in yet, but I know when I do, my L85 will be gone. Oh well. If NVG's would ever be removed, think how interesting the dynamics would be if we ALL had to rely on a light source to get around. That would be amazing IMHO.

[/quote']

That would kick so much ass.

Pfft. I'd just sit on the side of the road and wait for the first orb of light I see. Down the sights, and... boom. Free loot.

[mytwosenses@gmail.com 0]

How was it OP?

It was used for spotting only' date=' some ppl was teaming up, one sniper one spotter, thats fair, Teamwork should result in rewards.....

But ofc, Having a ghillie suit and a sniper killing ppl in cherno and elektro without ANY chance to find you is not op, Oh i love the irony

[/quote']

Do you guys realize how the Arma2 engine works for draw distance? From your persective you may be laying in the grass with a ghillie suit on, seemingly hidden. However, from a distance, distant players only see the grass drawn in their OWN close proximity. From a distance the grass is not drawn. So, the ghillie suit who thinks he is hidden 400 meters away is actually laying there on a bald hillside with no grass from the distant perspective. The ghillie suit actually stands out MORE at distance because it has a larger outline.

Incorrect. Search any video on the matter. If you are in the grass from your perspective, you will be sunken into the grass from any distance.

Not entirely. BI implemented that a couple years ago because the prone players at distance were SO visible. Players do "sink" down into the ground some, but they are stilll very visible to anyone who knows what they are looking for. You can still see head and shoulders and any movement makes the whole body visible for a short time. There is no grass at distance, only up close in perspective.

I think most who play Dayz just don't know this, if they havne't been familiar with Arma2 before.

Obviously if you move you can be seen. But it is a fact that if you look down (and only use free-look to look around), given enough grass cover, you can be completely concealed.

[nnuu 61]

NVG's are kinda useless anyway. You can just turn your video and visibility and Gamma setting to max and the only parts that are hard to see is when your in a heavy forest area but its still pretty visible. My server is always on night when most people in the states are on day time so I've played alot at night and only time its hard to see is when its raining heavy.

People would still just up there visual settings basically nvg's right now aren't really that great as is.

They were useless in the beginning' date=' and the same for now, but you know not too long ago, it was pitch black no matter how high you adjusted the gamma. Now, sadly it's back to what it was.

[hr']

Pfft. I'd just sit on the side of the road and wait for the first orb of light I see. Down the sights' date=' and... boom. Free loot.

[/quote']

Of course there would be a few players like you, who enjoy sitting in one spot for hours and wait. But what about the players that use flares in a smart manner coming towards you but you can not distinguish exactly where they are? You are probably the type of player that would just DC then.

[Protovoid 0]

While i don't support the removal of this rifle, i don't agree that it's a "buff" to snipers, on the contrary, they have to detect people with normal means now.

Personally i think that what this rifle needs are batteries, or even separation of thermal and rifles, much like night goggles and binoculars work.

[chrismgtis 55]

Bitch. Moan. Bitch. Moan. Bitch. Moan. Bitch. Moan.

There, I got it out the way for you.

Now all that's left to do is for you guys to go to 1 of the 8 million dumbed down piles of junk games out there that listened to babies and ruined the game, making it not fun anymore. One of those would be good for you. Do us a favor and play those, and complain on their forums, instead of ruining ours.

I never even found one or got to use one. See me complaining? Not at all.

[jonahcutter 51]

simple solution. get rid of ALL snipers' date=' and ghullie suits.

this is a fucking SURVIVAL HORROR mod, not a WW3 mod FFS.

having snipers defeats the entire purpose of the game. ppl will hide in the forest for all eternity watching one spot, never neading to go out to actually SURVIVE. ud mind as well go in ur room untill a damn fly lands on ur wall and hit it with a shoe, because thats exactly what all snipers are doing. get rid of that aspect of the game.

[/quote']

It is survival/horror/pvp. Rocket said in a interview just yesterday he isnt going to punish banditry and isnt going to punish people that camp elektro and cherno with snipers picking off fresh survivors. He said if you don't like it happening on your server go do something about it like kill them.

I can provide you the link if you like.

Sure, provide the link. If he made that response, it's a pretty misguided one on his part. And fundamentally misunderstands why there is so much criticism of the ease of playing as a bandit over playing as a survivor.

The strength and interest in this mod isn't about sniper vs sniper pvp. There are far better mods/games that do that.

It equates, falsely, putting bandits into the same difficult decision-making survivors have to make, as somehow "punishing" bandits. That's just wrong. Removing long-range weapons, scopes and assault weapons would level the playing field, and make it as hardcore to play as a bandit as it currently is to play as a survivor.

Everyone can still pvp. You just can't do it from the safety of a scoped rifle from hundreds of meters out, and with no danger of horde aggro. Currently, playing as a survivor is far more hardcore than playing as a bandit. Playing as a bandit is easy-mode. You kill others while relatively, if not outright completely, safe from the zeds.

As it stands now, the mod seems too enamored with military weapons and long-range pvp, and "gearing up" a la WoW and other MMOs.

So if Rocket really thinks putting bandit-minded players into situations where they put themselves into danger from zeds by banditing is somehow "punishing" them, I say he's not clear himself on why the mod has garnered so much attention.

Most people seem to love the wide-open pvp potential when encountering other players while searching towns. What people seem to hate is getting zapped from hundreds of meters away by someone they never see and who is in little/no danger of zed aggro.

People are not flocking to this mod for its sniper vs sniper gameplay. Remove the zombies and see how many people play it.

[Hawk24 94]

People defended the L85 with the argument of it being a "very rare" weapon

Tell me, how does the removal of a supposedly very rare weapon have such a huge impact on the numbers of potential snipers?

Did anyone actually stop being a sniper because Oh! THAT guy could be the one in a thousand wielding a rifle with thermal optics?

[jesquik 75]

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=32371&pid=285485#pid285485

"ALL the weapons out of the game are glitches because I cut too deep with the classname removals.

This will be fixed for future hotfix in the week."

--Rocket

Excellent.

Although' date=' good discussion on game balance. It's obvious who does the sniping, and who was happy that they could go on killing people in treelines ghillied up with no worries about being spotted. :D

[/quote']

I think this is taken out of context. This came in response to people talking about many weapons missing from their bags, not just the L85 AWS.

As far as I'm concerned the thermal was in a completely different class compared to any other weapon. There shouldn't be any active sight systems on any guns without charging or batteries. NVGs are equally unrealistic and overpowered for this stage in the game's development. Until duping, disconnecting, and spawn cheats have been fixed they just add to the grief of people without adding to the atmosphere of the world.

Snipers are incredibly potent, take a look at your war history. Against single targets you are basically fucked. Against small groups, they can effectively destroy morale and group cohesion. Against a well organized group they are in significant danger if they fire their loud weapon.

[L33tmoaf 1]

Now I can stalk geared bandits without the fear of repercussions from an L85 AWS rifle :D

Happy hunting!

[Cyric (DayZ) 254]

I don't understand how effectively using camouflage is considered OP, but I don't care enough to argue the point since I know how it'll turn out anyway.

[slyder73 94]

How was it OP?

It was used for spotting only' date=' some ppl was teaming up, one sniper one spotter, thats fair, Teamwork should result in rewards.....

But ofc, Having a ghillie suit and a sniper killing ppl in cherno and elektro without ANY chance to find you is not op, Oh i love the irony

[/quote']

Do you guys realize how the Arma2 engine works for draw distance? From your persective you may be laying in the grass with a ghillie suit on, seemingly hidden. However, from a distance, distant players only see the grass drawn in their OWN close proximity. From a distance the grass is not drawn. So, the ghillie suit who thinks he is hidden 400 meters away is actually laying there on a bald hillside with no grass from the distant perspective. The ghillie suit actually stands out MORE at distance because it has a larger outline.

Incorrect. Search any video on the matter. If you are in the grass from your perspective, you will be sunken into the grass from any distance.

Not entirely. BI implemented that a couple years ago because the prone players at distance were SO visible. Players do "sink" down into the ground some, but they are stilll very visible to anyone who knows what they are looking for. You can still see head and shoulders and any movement makes the whole body visible for a short time. There is no grass at distance, only up close in perspective.

I think most who play Dayz just don't know this, if they havne't been familiar with Arma2 before.

Obviously if you move you can be seen. But it is a fact that if you look down (and only use free-look to look around), given enough grass cover, you can be completely concealed.

No, the point is at distance there IS NO GRASS. You as the sniper see grass in your screen, but at a distance, the other players do not see the grass around you, they see bare ground with no foliage. Being prone (in any uniform) allows you to "indent" a little into the ground but still quite visible. I have shot hundreds of guys over the years trying ot use this tactic.

[mio.rogvall@gmail.com 107]

Bitch. Moan. Bitch. Moan. Bitch. Moan. Bitch. Moan.

There' date=' I got it out the way for you.

Now all that's left to do is for you guys to go to 1 of the 8 million dumbed down piles of junk games out there that listened to babies and ruined the game, making it not fun anymore. One of those would be good for you. Do us a favor and play those, and complain on their forums, instead of ruining ours.

I never even found one or got to use one. See me complaining? Not at all.

[/quote']

Shut the fuck up. Just shut up man. Them removing l85 is fine. I have the gun too. Not telling people on forehand or trying to ninja the gun out of the game is not cool though.

[Virfortis 111]

For a game that isn't supposed to have balancing, Rocket sure loves buffing snipers. It isn't about balance, it's simply about facing a sniper being such a binary system. People open up with "well if you are fighting a sniper"

You don't fight a sniper, you don't see one, you can't plan for one, and you can't find one. You die, one shot, every time, while they sit up somewhere in perfect safety. They can log in and shoot you, log out and find another server, rinse and repeat. They don't have to worry about missing, or pulling zombies, and they're completely self-sufficient, whereas the survivor can't do so much as cough without dying. If there is a sniper, you are dead and they are perfectly safe. The only way to "outplay" a sniper is to simply never go near any form of civilization, and I can play THE ARMORY for that.

I've been saying for years that snipers ruin FPS games, and at the end of the day my argument has been proven right every time. Games with them become all about sniper warfare. It's impossible to force people into a middle ground unless it's constant close quarters (ala Call of Duty) or there are vehicles (Battlefield) and even then, mass snipers becomes a chronic problem. (Strike at Kharkand, bridges down, line of 30 snipers)

Get rid of scopes, ditch the NVGs, and watch DayZ become fun again. That's not balancing, that's a gameplay shift. If someone kills with an Enfield, rock on dude, but an AS50 as 800m? Why? If long range sniping and killing people without fear of being shot at is what you want, there's Sniper: Ghost Warrior for that.

It's time the sniper rifle left the FPS, and if DayZ is going to become the WoW of FPS games (talking about popularity/everyone comparing to it) then this is vital to gameplay. Think about it: If Rogues could one shot kill everyone at long range and be able to vanish easily, would anyone on WoW play a Paladin?

[Hawk24 94]

I've been saying for years that snipers ruin FPS games, and at the end of the day my argument has been proven right every time. Games with them become all about sniper warfare. It's impossible to force people into a middle ground unless it's constant close quarters (ala Call of Duty) or there are vehicles (Battlefield) and even then, mass snipers becomes a chronic problem. (Strike at Kharkand, bridges down, line of 30 snipers)

You're the first person I've ever seen that has the very same view on snipers in FPS as I do

+1 internets for you, good sir

[void.false@gmail.com 300]

Want to be a sniper? Pick up Enfield or CZ and camp as you wish. Every other scoped rifle is ruining the atmosphere of the game. Perhaps you can leave M14. All other scoped should be eliminated.

[nihilistic 6]

What I fail to understand is why there is a British weapon (l85) spawning in chernarussian choppers. The M4 class weapons (not including the m16a2) are also very much out of place.

If there is to be a thermal scoped weapon in the game it should be the AK74 GOSHAWK.

I have used the thermal l85 for a while now as both target spotting for my DMR (preferred sniper rifle :D) and spotting hostile snipers. It is extremely easy to spot any target at any angle within your draw distance if they are a player who isn't familiar with ArmA or moving tactically.

If you use your brain (something people rarely do in DayZ sadly), there are many ways to mask your thermal image and to lower your profile. Thick foliage, trees with a lot of branches (e.g. those pine trees) all mask your thermal image. It always makes me laugh when people moan and cry when in reality, it's their own stupidity, ignorance, lack of motivation to learn or a combination of all 3.

Stop being a slack peasant and learn about the game. Load up ArmA combined ops without DayZ mod enabled and load up the armoury. Get a feel for the guns and tactical movements. It will seriously improve your game and your survivability. But I guess that that is the plight of the internet, fuckwits cry and whinge when there are simple ways to learn and get better.

After using the thermal scope for a while in DayZ now, I really do feel that thermal just doesn't belong in DayZ. You need to be able to get away from people, to hide. The thrill of being able to evade a hostile or to flee from a firefight and hide in a bush somewhere is completely gone.

If there is going to be thermal in the game, it should be separate from weapons and instead be in a hand held device such as modded into the rangefinders as an option alongside its night vision optics or actual thermal binos themselves.

[Virfortis 111]

I've been saying for years that snipers ruin FPS games' date=' and at the end of the day my argument has been proven right every time. Games with them become all about sniper warfare. It's impossible to force people into a middle ground unless it's constant close quarters (ala Call of Duty) or there are vehicles (Battlefield) and even then, mass snipers becomes a chronic problem. (Strike at Kharkand, bridges down, line of 30 snipers)[/quote']

You're the first person I've ever seen that has the very same view on snipers in FPS as I do

+1 internets for you, good sir

Now don't misunderstand me, I'm fully aware that snipers are a REAL thing, but one of the biggest fears about being a sniper is that the moment you are seen, and the moment you're outflanked, you're a dead marksman. That's it, it's over.

In games, that doesn't happen, and snipers are so romanticized that everyone wants to be one. A sniper has no-one, maybe a spotter, but it's two men against an army? They shoot for officers, leaders, but they don't just pick people off willy nilly. Since we can all respawn, that means the actual role of a sniper is useless, so all that's left is the rifle as a killing machine, instead of a strategic precision weapon. That's why sniping in games is so prevalent, it's maximum glory with minimum guts. That's why it needs to go.

As a long time sniper, from 1942-DayZ, I have to ask: If DayZ is all about being hardcore, difficult, and tear inducing, why is the easiest form of shooting in this game? Everything else easy like regenerating health, army kits, safe zones, and grouping are gone.

---

It always makes me laugh when people moan and cry when in reality' date=' it's their own stupidity, ignorance, lack of motivation to learn or a combination of all 3.

Get a feel for the guns and tactical movements. It will seriously improve your game and your survivability. But I guess that that is the plight of the internet, fuckwits cry and whinge when there are simple ways to learn and get better.

[/quote']

No, the plight of the internet is knee-jerk elitism, followed closely by blind assumptions (mad cause u bad) over analytical data.

The Armory teaches little else besides shooting. In DayZ, there are no anti-sniper tactics OTHER than simply not playing. Scanning and even checking the treeline is useless, as they can easily just setup/log-in behind you. In reality? Sure there are military tactics for finding and seeing snipers because they can't DC once they get bored, or you could use smoke as cover and advance, but DayZ restricts, constrains, and disempowers anyone without a scope. That's why it needs to go, years of FPS gaming has taught me just how easy sniping is, even this fake "realistic" sniping in DayZ.

[dsi24 227]

lol @ people feeling proud because of a bug

Good thing it's being fixed, they exist so why shouldn't they exist in a post-apoc military zone?