Experimental Update 1.12 (Changelog)

[thepoey 193]

10 hours ago, William Sternritter said:

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? If those bases get looted and destroyed, that means players have been there no matter how remote the area is. As a matter of fact, I believe that is is exactly the result of base building why people started visiting remote areas. Before that people really would not go to edges of the map and so on. I'm the player who mostly enjoys roaming the wild and surviving there, occasionally overlooking a town and it used to be that there was no player activity where I roamed. Since base building, that changed rapidly. 

Recent changes to loot economy fixed some issues, created new ones. I for once like that loot is not refreshed as often and you can go for a very long time without finding some good gear, especially clothing. This all makes survival that much harder and also makes the hunt for player caches much more interesting. For a while now, finding player bases is the best way to gear up. Why risk a high density area like a military base, when you can loot it all from a tent in the woods? 🙂 

But then again I hate that items break down quickly because that completely defeats the scarcity and item tiers when you know that the best and supposedly most durable items, break down just as easily as a starting t-shirt. 

So I really wonder where will Day Z go from here, not a fan of the artificial balancing but maybe that will bring more stability to bases ... we'll see. 

No contradiction. I think there are a few players, usually duping, who just roam the map with endless grenades and grief every base they can find. So the bulk of the player base, doesn't bother with structures or bases, and eventually, resort to PVP on the coast or the north, and eventually just move on from the game. 

There's an unstated psychological impact I think, especially for new players, that when your base gets hit, it's incredibly deflating. The first time, you think, ok, this is just part of the game, I will double down and build better. And then, when it happens, again, and again, and again, and all you ever see are similarly destroyed bases littering the map, you just give up and move on to something else. It's one thing to be defeated by players out smarting you or outgunning you, but when you find out it's just because of balance issues or exploits, it makes it hard to want to invest any time. It's just the Time Required to do these things, vs. The Time It Takes to Lose Them is maddeningly disproportionate.  

I actually think item durability and other things are steps in the right direction.  Resources should be taxed. It should take a long time to build or gather supplies to survive. It should be a constant struggle. The problem is things like ammo, and grenades are just still way too abundant or overpowered. I mean the cooking pot trick on walls is such a joke. Other small things, like bears being way too easy to take down, or wolves needing a better pattern beyond "kill three and you're good" make the survival aspects of the game still somewhat trivial. 

[DefectiveWater 535]

38 minutes ago, thepoey said:

I mean the cooking pot trick on walls is such a joke.

uuuuuuuh... you can just like... place 5 grenades on the ground and activate the 6th one and drop it. No need for cooking pots, should work the same as cooking pot.

[thepoey 193]

2 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

uuuuuuuh... you can just like... place 5 grenades on the ground and activate the 6th one and drop it. No need for cooking pots, should work the same as cooking pot.

that's even worse lol. grenades are not rare at all. 

[DefectiveWater 535]

13 hours ago, thepoey said:

that's even worse lol. grenades are not rare at all. 

If you think bases should be near indestructible then you are wrong. Stack 2-3 gates and majority of players won't be able to get in. Bases are supposed to be something for active players to do, so daily maintenance is important, and don't stash everything inside your base...
Bases do NOT need buffs because of twats duping.

Edited May 9, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[thepoey 193]

6 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

If you think bases should be near indestructible then you are wrong. Stack 2-3 gates and majority of players won't be able to get in. Bases are supposed to be something for active players to do, so daily maintenance is important, and don't stash everything inside your base...
Bases do NOT need buffs because of twats duping.

They shouldn't be near indestructible, not sure where I said that? But they shouldn't take seconds to destroy when it takes hours to build anything remotely substantial. It's disproportionate. Daily maintenance means absolute dick when someone can destroy 10 walls in less than 5 minutes. There's absolutely zero point to base building right now. "Don't stash your stuff!" isn't a solution; it's an excuse for an underdeveloped and unrewarding feature. Stashing stuff in a player built structure is an intuitive thing that almost any new player that attempts to build a base is going to do. When they learn not to do it, it's because the meta of this game has shifted towards "base building isn't worth doing" and that sucks. This doesn't even account for the endless exploits and glitches that players can abuse to pass through walls or windows.   

Bases don't need buffs because of dupers, they need buffs IN GENERAL. If a core feature of your game is essentially ignored by a majority of the community because it serves no purpose, than that feature is broken. It's fine if you personally don't care about base building as a feature and want to make excuses for it, but a lot of the community does care about it, and right now, it sucks. It would be better off not being in the game in its current state because of how it's only ever abused by exploits. 

Short term solutions could be making grenades less powerful on walls or less abundant, and toning down the damage buckshot does to walls. Long term solutions could be adding other types of materials (the difference between metal and wood right now is basically non-existent), and letting us build roofs so people can't just effortlessly hop in. @Asmondian has an EXCELLENT post on this forum on some of the longer term solutions that could improve the feature that's highly worth reading. The steps the Dev Team made towards improving how bases were busted into several updates ago were steps in the right direction, but they need to keep going on.   

Edited May 9, 2021 by thepoey

[DefectiveWater 535]

3 hours ago, thepoey said:

it's an excuse for an underdeveloped and unrewarding feature.

Just like the majority of the game, but they are slowly getting there.

3 hours ago, thepoey said:

"Don't stash your stuff!" isn't a solution

Meant it more along the lines of: don't stash everything inside your base that you KNOW can be raided in a fairly short time. My advice would be that you keep stashes near a base, and keep the base door open. That way people will think it's already raided and won't cause damage to your walls, and you still have some safe space that is your own.

3 hours ago, thepoey said:

Daily maintenance means absolute dick when someone can destroy 10 walls in less than 5 minutes.

Not really. Your average DayZ player won't even be able to destroy one wall. It takes at least 6 grenades for one wall. 3 walls = at least 18 grenades.

3 hours ago, thepoey said:

Long term solutions could be adding other types of materials

Agreed. Game is just lacking in depth when it comes to a lot of things (zombie AI, servers at night time losing like 75% of the player pop, Repairing Simulator 2021 because guns and tool only last a very limited time)

3 hours ago, thepoey said:

The steps the Dev Team made towards improving how bases were busted into several updates ago were steps in the right direction, but they need to keep going on.

Okay... I get what you are saying, but there are so many of aspects of the game that they need to focus on, and if you didn't notice, they are taking turns with what's their focus. I imagine next year we will get another base building rework.

[thepoey 193]

20 minutes ago, DefectiveWater said:

Just like the majority of the game, but they are slowly getting there.

Meant it more along the lines of: don't stash everything inside your base that you KNOW can be raided in a fairly short time. My advice would be that you keep stashes near a base, and keep the base door open. That way people will think it's already raided and won't cause damage to your walls, and you still have some safe space that is your own.

Not really. Your average DayZ player won't even be able to destroy one wall. It takes at least 6 grenades for one wall. 3 walls = at least 18 grenades.

Agreed. Game is just lacking in depth when it comes to a lot of things (zombie AI, servers at night time losing like 75% of the player pop, Repairing Simulator 2021 because guns and tool only last a very limited time)

Okay... I get what you are saying, but there are so many of aspects of the game that they need to focus on, and if you didn't notice, they are taking turns with what's their focus. I imagine next year we will get another base building rework.

Let's hope so. I know base building isn't a priority right now, I just hope it is eventually.

I don't even really keep stashes in or near built structures anymore; fully improvised tent in the woods guy. Ideally, while I do want walls to have a bit more strength, I want there to just be more variety in terms of what bases can offer and what can be built. Things like generators, construction lights, don't really offer much in terms of utility and are usually just cycled out of loot spawns. I think the overall way in which structures are built is a bigger problem; it doesn't take much effort to hop inside or glitch through the top, and because building itself is so restrictive, it can make it hard to really fortify anything, and airlocks ultimately lose a lot of practicality. Vaulting makes fortifying existing structures even harder, if at all possible. The recent changes to barbed wire are such a good step in the right direction.    

And while I do agree that the average DayZ player isn't going to have 18 grenades on them when they run into a structure, it's not the average players I am worried about so much, it's the one exploiting duping glitches. Though, I will admit this seems to be specifically more of a problem on the Xbox than other platforms. But even then, enough buckshot and a vaiga makes a lot of walls pretty trivial. It's pretty easy to amass enough boxes to bust into a structure. Though, I haven't seen any info how much that has changed post 1.12 so maybe that's improved.     
 

[William Sternritter 449]

@thepoey I fully understand your frustration with base building. Granted I have not seen the things you describe in action, but I have see the aftermath so I know it happens. However; that does beg the question how much does a wooden fence hold against explosives and tools? HESCO barriers should really be the answers to that, if you could properly stack them and of course they would behave like a base, thus you could not just shovel them empty from any side.

That is, to keep at least some sense of realism. Maybe Day Z will forgo that for the sake of "balancing". Same as with item degradation. As much as I understand that resources are spent, I still think that currently it makes no sense. A lot of the items get damaged very un-proportionately to their use and it's just an artificial limit that has no sense of realism. It's a way for the devs to force us into a gameplay loop that for me does the same as base destruction for you. 

[futro 0]

Will there be a way to undo the zombie changes of 1.12? I would like to make it so zombies can not hit you no matter what. And make axes/heavy melee items 1 tap zombies.

[Derleth 1357]

10 minutes ago, futro said:

Will there be a way to undo the zombie changes of 1.12? I would like to make it so zombies can not hit you no matter what. And make axes/heavy melee items 1 tap zombies.

So you basically want them to be walking loot piñatas for low-tier food and junk items? Why have them at all if you don't want them to hit players, easier to just disable the infected event and be rid of them entirely then. Otherwise you'll need to make a mod that overrides the zombie configurations.

[futro 0]

28 minutes ago, Derleth said:

So you basically want them to be walking loot piñatas for low-tier food and junk items? Why have them at all if you don't want them to hit players, easier to just disable the infected event and be rid of them entirely then. Otherwise you'll need to make a mod that overrides the zombie configurations.

I want there to be a way to fight them. A way to master. A way to reward those who learn that skill. Its not about them having loot or junk items. Its about gameplay that rewards skills. And not forcing unavoidable damage to players. 

I would also like if clothing repair was almost non existent. Or just quadruple clothing health. Having to repair clothing so often is grindy and not rewarding.

[Derleth 1357]

35 minutes ago, futro said:

I want there to be a way to fight them. A way to master. A way to reward those who learn that skill. Its not about them having loot or junk items. Its about gameplay that rewards skills. And not forcing unavoidable damage to players. 

I would also like if clothing repair was almost non existent. Or just quadruple clothing health. Having to repair clothing so often is grindy and not rewarding.

Ah, well actually there is. Using sidesteps, blocks and moving away from them allows you to avoid getting hit. The result is melee with zombies requires a lot more activity from the player than just holding rmb and clicking like crazy, that imo is a good thing. I just don't like how they tank head trauma, 1.12 gave them a damage reduction to melee damage on their head hitbox - it means actually aiming for the head is nearly pointless since the damage is halved. At the same time hitting them anywhere else actually increases the damage 20%, a very strange configuration that I really wonder what the thinking is behind.

If the head zone damage reduction is reduced to 25% you can still one-shot zeds if you hit them in the head with a heavy attack from the strongest melee weapons, while you'll need to land a combo with smaller weapons. That feels just right, I hope the devs will agree with that and tweak the damage reduction.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Derleth

[futro 0]

12 minutes ago, Derleth said:

Ah, well actually there is. Using sidesteps, blocks and moving away from them allows you to avoid getting hit. The result is melee with zombies requires a lot more activity from the player than just holding rmb and clicking like crazy, that imo is a good thing. I just don't like how they tank head trauma, 1.12 gave them a damage reduction to melee damage on their head hitbox - it means actually aiming for the head is nearly pointless since the damage is halved. At the same time hitting them anywhere else actually increases the damage 20%, a very strange configuration that I really wonder what the thinking is behind.

If the head zone damage reduction is reduced to 25% you can still one-shot zeds if you hit them in the head with a heavy attack from the strongest melee weapons, while you'll need to land a combo with smaller weapons. That feels just right, I hope the devs will agree with that and tweak the damage reduction.

I would just like a way to get old system back. If devs provide way to select which changes they put in updates. So people can select. That would be good. It is very concerning some of these changes they give us. Some really make the game not fun anymore.

[Derleth 1357]

1 hour ago, futro said:

I would just like a way to get old system back. If devs provide way to select which changes they put in updates. So people can select. That would be good. It is very concerning some of these changes they give us. Some really make the game not fun anymore.

There is a way - make a mod and host a server running it.

[Tonyeh 454]

7 hours ago, futro said:

I want there to be a way to fight them. A way to master.

That's what you have now.

Before you could defeat 3 of them with ease. Now you have to learn how to deal with them. Standing there just punching them isn't going to work any more. You have to...ahem..."master" a new technique.

Anyway, bottom line is get a gun, silence it, and Bob's yer uncle. In many ways the infected are easier to deal with now, cos shooting them with a suppressed weapon doesn't bring them charging in from every angle.

[thepoey 193]

On 5/10/2021 at 12:23 AM, William Sternritter said:

@thepoey I fully understand your frustration with base building. Granted I have not seen the things you describe in action, but I have see the aftermath so I know it happens. However; that does beg the question how much does a wooden fence hold against explosives and tools? HESCO barriers should really be the answers to that, if you could properly stack them and of course they would behave like a base, thus you could not just shovel them empty from any side.

That is, to keep at least some sense of realism. Maybe Day Z will forgo that for the sake of "balancing". Same as with item degradation. As much as I understand that resources are spent, I still think that currently it makes no sense. A lot of the items get damaged very un-proportionately to their use and it's just an artificial limit that has no sense of realism. It's a way for the devs to force us into a gameplay loop that for me does the same as base destruction for you. 

I think if there were more alternatives to the wooden fences, I'd be mostly ok with the current level of protection they provide. I feel like there should be at least one more tier and metal walls should really provide more protection than they do. Currently metal walls only barely provide anymore protection than wood, and without much more rare metal is in comparison to lumber, it's really imbalanced. Maybe the addition of concrete walls or something to reinforce the wooden structures would be good. Loosening up the build restrictions and limiting vaulting in some areas would also go a long way. Barricading existing structures would also help. There was talk a long time ago of utilizing in game crafting tables for more recipes, and that seems to have just completely fallen off the way side, but I remember an old status report discussing it. 

I'm personally ok with the current level tools degrade at, but I think to get around the feeling that they burn out too fast (totally understand why this is frustrating),  I think a better solution would be to maybe buff the health of said items, and make pristine and worn items MUCH harder to find. This would incentivize the use of repair items and require much more purposeful use and planning. Or perhaps the soft skills system could be integrated to improve the life and use of tools once you've developed sufficient skill? There's definitely a lot of options out there, just takes some creative thinking. 

[William Sternritter 449]

8 hours ago, thepoey said:

There's definitely a lot of options out there, just takes some creative thinking. 

Yep, it just seems like devs have their minds fixated on juggling numbers rather than coming up with an overall concept and sticking to it. Because the stuff that is being discussed is something that was supposed to be ironed out way back in EA. Some even were talked about or shown in some prototype phase, but instead of steadily implementing them we get ... balancing. And some more guns. 

[thepoey 193]

19 minutes ago, William Sternritter said:

Yep, it just seems like devs have their minds fixated on juggling numbers rather than coming up with an overall concept and sticking to it. Because the stuff that is being discussed is something that was supposed to be ironed out way back in EA. Some even were talked about or shown in some prototype phase, but instead of steadily implementing them we get ... balancing. And some more guns. 

I suspect with the skeleton Dev Team we have now, any substantial new content is off the table sadly, and it’s going to come down to just figuring out what can be done with existing assets. 

[Girth Brooks 570]

I had infected blink in and out of existance on experimental last night. Had 3 follow me to a house, they milled around for about a minute and then poof!! Gone. 1 second they were grunting and groaning at the door next no zombies in the area. Not sure if anyone else has experienced this or not.

[thepoey 193]

Lol see this is the kind of stuff I’m talking about!! You shouldn’t be able to just worm your way over walls!

 

[McWendy 675]

33 minutes ago, thepoey said:

Lol see this is the kind of stuff I’m talking about!! You shouldn’t be able to just worm your way over walls!

 

That's Just wrong..... But when you want to crawl underneath a hole in a fence you cant. DayZ logic

[thepoey 193]

1 hour ago, McWendy said:

That's Just wrong..... But when you want to crawl underneath a hole in a fence you cant. DayZ logic

wild the person went to all that trouble but didn't use any barb wire 

[McWendy 675]

26 minutes ago, thepoey said:

wild the person went to all that trouble but didn't use any barb wire 

True, you need the Barb wire 🙂

 

[Tonyeh 454]

5 hours ago, thepoey said:

Lol see this is the kind of stuff I’m talking about!! You shouldn’t be able to just worm your way over walls!

 

Looks like somebody didn't test their base before congratulating themselves on building it. But as said, a bit of barbed wire would have made that a lot harder to do.

Wonder what Mr Crawly ended up with in the end? Or if he could even get back out. That may have been a one way trip if it was on a community server, which would have made the whole exercise kinda pointless.

[McWendy 675]

34 minutes ago, Tonyeh said:

Looks like somebody didn't test their base before congratulating themselves on building it. But as said, a bit of barbed wire would have made that a lot harder to do.

Wonder what Mr Crawly ended up with in the end? Or if he could even get back out. That may have been a one way trip if it was on a community server, which would have made the whole exercise kinda pointless.

You can dismantle from the back. Assuming he has a melee tool with him. Wich i always do.