Experimental Update 1.12 (Changelog)

[McWendy 675]

Well as long as you can is ofc untill they bring out an update where they choose to wipe everything. (Which is silly in a released game)

Or when they wipe because of that whole season/quarterly thing.

[Derleth 1357]

14 hours ago, McWendy said:

Maybe they can finally boost (and create more ) soft skills? 

Spend time away from Spawn areas Will increase resistance/survivability. 

Spend more time at Night increases the sight at Night. Range and/of clarity

Spend time crafting Will increase the state you can get your Gear back to or how long crafting takes.

Cooking> faster and more nutricient meals

Etc obviously the ideas could go on for ever, but you get the gist. 

Doing the Opposite then in fact would decrease such skills. 

Thoughts?

Soft skills really do have an impact when they matter, the cold survival soft skill in Namalsk has a profound effect on how your character can handle the ever present cold. With it maxed you can stop hugging fires and be comfortable in the best clothes unless there's an extreme cold event, as newspawn you need to get indoors or warm up regularly by fires even with best insulation clothes. When dying on namalsk it is not the gear you lament the most - it is the cold survival. So, with more and relevant soft skills yes I think they can contribute to making actually surviving become something you want to do.
Examples:

• Endurance - slower depletion of stamina when sprinting. Built up by running a lot, players using cars most of the time would be at a disadvantage in a chase situation.
• Strength - less stamina lost when carrying heavy loads, melee damage bonus. Built up by carrying heavy loads when running.
• Fishing - greater chance of catching fish when fishing. Less wellies and pots...
• Butchering - more meat when cutting up animals
• Cooking - more nutrients from cooking
• Building - less tool wear when building
• Repairing - slower depletion of repair kits when repairing clothes, tools and weapons
• Marksmanship - slower stamina drain when holding breath

These are just some ideas I've seen posted before. They would need to be cleverly constructed so players can't cheeze e.g. Endurance by pinning down a key for autorun and go afk for a day. Cold resistance from Namalsk could very well be brought to vanilla too.

[helpthedeadwalk 179]

7 hours ago, Tonyeh said:

The concept of the game has always been to survive as long as you can.

It was never about making bases or cars.

The community has been arguing for and against bases since arma2:dayzmod. I agree that there needs to be balance between construction and destruction, but to your point DayZ isn't meant to provide you with a permanent, unraidable base.  When people complain about bases, I ask them for suggestions and to consider there cannot be "raid times" and there will always be a player or group that has far more free time than you.

Cars, on the other had have always been useful for travel and for cargo. Getting the bus fixed up and providing rides up and down the coast! Driving a Ural through the forest, knocking down trees. A fix (presumably client-side) to vehicles is still required. As a server owner, I really want a way to despawn them based on lifetime and/or damage level (not ruined).

 

[Tonyeh 454]

5 hours ago, helpthedeadwalk said:

The community has been arguing for and against bases since arma2:dayzmod. I agree that there needs to be balance between construction and destruction, but to your point DayZ isn't meant to provide you with a permanent, unraidable base.  When people complain about bases, I ask them for suggestions and to consider there cannot be "raid times" and there will always be a player or group that has far more free time than you.

Cars, on the other had have always been useful for travel and for cargo. Getting the bus fixed up and providing rides up and down the coast! Driving a Ural through the forest, knocking down trees. A fix (presumably client-side) to vehicles is still required. As a server owner, I really want a way to despawn them based on lifetime and/or damage level (not ruined).

 

Bases and cars are just things you can do in the game. It's an activity that the player can indulge in or not. Many, many, players, including myself, never even attempt to build a base or get a car running because the actual game doesn't need it.

However, they were never the actual "concept" of DayZ which is my point. The "concept" of DayZ was, is, and always has been to survive as long as you can and you can do that with or without bases and cars.

As to the balancing out of activities like base building and car running, sure there's work to be done. But you'll never satisfy everyone in this respect. Personally I don't think car stability will ever be 100%. And bases should be 100% "raid-able", which will always infuriate people who went through a lot of time building them. But, you know...tough shit.

The fact of the matter is that on a map the size of Chernarus, there are just too many people roaming around for a base stay hidden or intact for too long. That's just the way it is. And, frankly, I think that that's a good thing. Because with the "count_in" flag bollocks, you have a situation where a single group can hoard all the top gear in their base and effectively diminish the game for every other player on the map.

There's been times when I've come across a previously raided base and it will still have half the loot on the bloody map stashed away in boxes, barrels and tents. Now, if "count_in" wasn't a thing, I wouldn't care. But so long as it is, then raid-able bases need to be too. Because you cannot have a situation where all the good stuff gets hoarded away in an impenetrable base for one group to enjoy.

[Tonyeh 454]

12 hours ago, Derleth said:

Soft skills really do have an impact when they matter, the cold survival soft skill in Namalsk has a profound effect on how your character can handle the ever present cold. With it maxed you can stop hugging fires and be comfortable in the best clothes unless there's an extreme cold event, as newspawn you need to get indoors or warm up regularly by fires even with best insulation clothes. When dying on namalsk it is not the gear you lament the most - it is the cold survival. So, with more and relevant soft skills yes I think they can contribute to making actually surviving become something you want to do.
Examples:

• Endurance - slower depletion of stamina when sprinting. Built up by running a lot, players using cars most of the time would be at a disadvantage in a chase situation.
• Strength - less stamina lost when carrying heavy loads, melee damage bonus. Built up by carrying heavy loads when running.
• Fishing - greater chance of catching fish when fishing. Less wellies and pots...
• Butchering - more meat when cutting up animals
• Cooking - more nutrients from cooking
• Building - less tool wear when building
• Repairing - slower depletion of repair kits when repairing clothes, tools and weapons
• Marksmanship - slower stamina drain when holding breath

These are just some ideas I've seen posted before. They would need to be cleverly constructed so players can't cheeze e.g. Endurance by pinning down a key for autorun and go afk for a day. Cold resistance from Namalsk could very well be brought to vanilla too.

I'd like to see a lot of that implemented too. On the Namalsk cold resistance soft skill (I'd no idea what that little symbol was for ages), I find now that I can wear a helmet without it impacting my temp too much. Before I had to stick to wearing an ushanka or pilotka because I'd start to get cold with the helmet on.

But, yeh, I think a focus on these soft skills would be a nice way to go for the future of the game.

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

@McWendy Nope, these values are not realistic!  My thought process was to compare everything to the most powerful cartridges (7.62x54mmR & 7.62x51mm) and scale it back from there.  The suppressed numbers are of course not even close to simulation standards, but are larger than the arcade-like ones in place for a long time now. Currently, what is the maximum distance a suppressed shot can be heard?  250m? Dumb!

Edited May 5, 2021 by EzyStriderPS4

[helpthedeadwalk 179]

17 hours ago, Tonyeh said:

The fact of the matter is that on a map the size of Chernarus, there are just too many people roaming around for a base stay hidden or intact for too long. That's just the way it is. And, frankly, I think that that's a good thing. Because with the "count_in" flag bollocks, you have a situation where a single group can hoard all the top gear in their base and effectively diminish the game for every other player on the map.

When this is being discussed I like to remind people that they want unraidable bases (not you, others) but they also want helicopters. lol

As for "count_in", I am a proponent of it. You want high-end weapons, but you don't need them. DayZ is about interaction too, so if you can't loot it, then raid or kill or trade with another player. Grinding out a barracks to get everything you want is just a participation trophy. All of this base building and cars and hoarding and wanting is partly because of the lack of PVE. Turning up zombie danger has helped. What else can be done? More sickness? Animals? Toxic Zones/Radiation?  AI?  You know what? a2:dayzmod had most of that (vehicle, ai, missions, helis, etc, etc) and players still want to just PVP.....

[Tonyeh 454]

I think "count_in" is the worst thing to happen to DayZ. It's probably the clumsiest mechanic that has ever been implemented into the game. Making certain items rare is fine, although I'd argue that making something like an AK-47 rare in eastern Europe is bloody stupid. But "count_in" effectively makes certain items impossible to find for too many players.

As for helicopters, I don't ever want to see them in the game. The cars are bad enough.

Things I would like to see is the zombie virus being an actual danger to the player. More dangerous animals, yes. Snakes perhaps? Malaria from mosquitoes, apparently they're a nightmare in southern Russia. On that subject, more maps would be great. Frankly, I'm tired of Chernarus and now wander around Namalsk, although I'm thinking of getting Livonia in the Steam sale (although nobody plays that map much). But I'd like more areas with different weather types. A summer map at 25 or 35 degrees would alter the way we have to play the game completely. No more running around with heavy clothes and armour on. The real risk of hyperthermia, which is harder to fight than hypothermia.

I certainly don't want to see AI opponents in the game though. No interest in that.

 

[McWendy 675]

4 hours ago, Tonyeh said:

I'm tired of Chernarus and now wander around Namalsk, although I'm thinking of getting Livonia in the Steam sale (although nobody plays that map much).

Dont get Livonia. Waste of money. Its refreshing for about a week. Then you see Just how small it is and the PVP versus fresh spawns is worse on that map. 

Maybe try out the new Esseker map 😉

PS have you found the underground at Athena 2 allready? 🙂

 

[Tonyeh 454]

Yeh, Livonia seems hit and miss alright. It's on sale until May 15th, so I'll decide by then. Part of me is interested, but the the other part of me thinks it just looks like a portion of the Chernarus countryside.

Haven't tried Esseker yet, but I saw someone do a vid on it. Looks good. I'll do that when my current Namalsk toon bites the dust. And no, still haven't found Athena 2. But I did find another pretty large military base further south of Athena 1. Got into a massive firefight with some guys down there the other night. The infected were doing their nut as well and there seemed like there were loads of them. It was bloody crazy. Got out of there with every stitch of clothing badly damaged, two jammed guns and a B+W screen. As I was running away all I could hear was panicked gunfire and screaming zeds.

Good times. 😆

[wildzero 37]

3 hours ago, McWendy said:

Dont get Livonia. Waste of money. Its refreshing for about a week. Then you see Just how small it is and the PVP versus fresh spawns is worse on that map.

My experience is completely different. I find Livonia one of the more beautiful maps. Play every now and then on a Livonia server.

When Livonia is on offer, worth the money. My opinion

[GamerWarrior2000 43]

Anyone else wonder what ever happened to the beautiful 3D clouds in early access that were replaced with the lifeless, 2D, low res, gradient-banding oil slick we have now? Paired with motion blur I remember it was very atmospheric. Why would they take them out?...Plus the night lighting is bipolar. Either holly-wood I'm afraid of the dark bright nights or pitch black zero moonlight I cant see a meter in front of me nights. Why not dark ominous forests with a vibrant moonlight in open areas?
 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by GamerWarrior2000

[William Sternritter 449]

6 hours ago, GamerWarrior2000 said:

Anyone else wonder what ever happened to the beautiful 3D clouds in early access that were replaced with the lifeless, 2D, low res, gradient-banding oil slick we have now?

Clouds, proper night light, weather where you would actually get hot in some clothing on a sunny day instead of freezing all the time ... 

Edited May 7, 2021 by William Sternritter

[Derleth 1357]

5 hours ago, GamerWarrior2000 said:

Anyone else wonder what ever happened to the beautiful 3D clouds in early access that were replaced with the lifeless, 2D, low res, gradient-banding oil slick we have now? Paired with motion blur I remember it was very atmospheric. Why would they take them out?...Plus the night lighting is bipolar. Either holly-wood I'm afraid of the dark bright nights or pitch black zero moonlight I cant see a meter in front of me nights. Why not dark ominous forests with a vibrant moonlight in open areas?

The volumetric clouds were taken out in 1.02 or 1.03 if I remember right. The reason was technical difficulties with getting the clouds to sync with the actual server weather. The clouds were client side and would nearly always be more or less out of sync with the server, causing nearly all players to see different weather than the player beside them. One guy would see sunny skies, one an overcast day, the third a rain storm. But all three would get wet... If you do a forum search you can probably find multiple reports of "ghost rain" - either getting wet without rain or rain not making you wet.

Also when the client attempted to sync with the server there would be very nasty client freezes. Since the team had no time or resources at the time to fix these issues, they opted to take the volumetric clouds out. While it was a sensible decision I truly hate the current clouds, they are so low quality and boring.

Now that they've dug deeper into the backlog, I think it is about time they made an effort to get proper skies back in the game. It is so frustrating to see those gorgeous, atmospheric skies in old videos and screenshots, then you look up at the sky now and see... a pixely oil slick. Bleeh.

[William Sternritter 449]

11 hours ago, wildzero said:

My experience is completely different. I find Livonia one of the more beautiful maps. Play every now and then on a Livonia server.

When Livonia is on offer, worth the money. My opinion

Same here, the gameplay is much different thanks to the layout. I would even say that traveling in Livonia with a car is counterproductive. It's a map that is best explored on foot. 

[thepoey 193]

On 5/4/2021 at 11:08 PM, Tonyeh said:

The concept of the game has always been to survive as long as you can.

It was never about making bases or cars.

There needs to be things that enrich that experience and make it tough. "Survive as long as you can" means nothing if the PVE is easily overcome after a certain point, and the PVP is heavily compartmentalized to one section of the map because nobody bothers to explore or stake their claim. 

Edit: The game has never just been "survive as long as you can." That's reductive. The game has always been, in theory, "Survive as long as you can against a myriad of environmental threats and player based threats." This is why the game has things like bears and wolves, and in theory, high risk/high reward loot areas such as military bases. Adding things like cars and bases gives players another resource to fight over, and another thing to worry about when exploring and "surviving as long as you can." 

If these things are trivialized to the point of not mattering or being useless, then the tagline of "This is your story" becomes stale very quickly. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by thepoey

[Tonyeh 454]

2 hours ago, thepoey said:

There needs to be things that enrich that experience and make it tough. "Survive as long as you can" means nothing if the PVE is easily overcome after a certain point, and the PVP is heavily compartmentalized to one section of the map because nobody bothers to explore or stake their claim. 

Edit: The game has never just been "survive as long as you can." That's reductive. The game has always been, in theory, "Survive as long as you can against a myriad of environmental threats and player based threats." This is why the game has things like bears and wolves, and in theory, high risk/high reward loot areas such as military bases. Adding things like cars and bases gives players another resource to fight over, and another thing to worry about when exploring and "surviving as long as you can." 

If these things are trivialized to the point of not mattering or being useless, then the tagline of "This is your story" becomes stale very quickly. 

That's still survive as long as you can.

[thepoey 193]

1 hour ago, Tonyeh said:

That's still survive as long as you can.

Ok, friend, whatever you say .

[Tonyeh 454]

6 minutes ago, thepoey said:

Ok, friend, whatever you say .

Eh?

What's the problem here? You sound upset about something and I'm not sure what it is.

Sure, as you say "The game has always been, in theory, "Survive as long as you can against a myriad of environmental threats and player based threats."" But I never said that it wasn't and all that is is an elaboration on the point I was making, which was the "concept of the game has always been to survive as long as you can".

You're not saying anything different.

 

['AZAZEL' 109]

On 5/4/2021 at 2:24 PM, Kyiara said:

PC Experimental 1.12 Update 7: Version 1.12.153904 (Released on 04.05.2021)

Just noticed that the mouse acceleration is still in the game after all these years ... could you finally please let us disable that garbage?

[-Gews- 7443]

20 hours ago, GamerWarrior2000 said:

Anyone else wonder what ever happened to the beautiful 3D clouds in early access that were replaced with the lifeless, 2D, low res, gradient-banding oil slick we have now? Paired with motion blur I remember it was very atmospheric. Why would they take them out?...Plus the night lighting is bipolar. Either holly-wood I'm afraid of the dark bright nights or pitch black zero moonlight I cant see a meter in front of me nights. Why not dark ominous forests with a vibrant moonlight in open areas?

(parody acct)

[William Sternritter 449]

11 hours ago, thepoey said:

... and the PVP is heavily compartmentalized to one section of the map because nobody bothers to explore or stake their claim. 

Oh no, no, no, that's not true by any measure. People usually try to build bases in the remote areas, meaning that they both go there and PVP happens there, since people are there (duh). It maybe true that majority of players might not bother but that is frankly their loss. 

But that is also kind of the point of this survival sandbox. It can be expected that majority will stick to some common routes and hotspots, this is what enables others to hide their bases or roam the wilderness and surviving that way. When I started playing Day Z it was also easier to stick to the main landmarks and routes, just to get my bearings. But long gone are the days of "we're certainly alone here, noone ever goes here". Now these are one of the famous last words. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by William Sternritter

[William Sternritter 449]

6 hours ago, -Gews- said:

(parody acct)

Looks like RTX is coming soon as well. 

[thepoey 193]

1 hour ago, William Sternritter said:

Oh no, no, no, that's not true by any measure. People usually try to build bases in the remote areas, meaning that they both go there and PVP happens there, since people are there (duh). It maybe true that majority of players might not bother but that is frankly their loss. 

But that is also kind of the point of this survival sandbox. It can be expected that majority will stick to some common routes and hotspots, this is what enables others to hide their bases or roam the wilderness and surviving that way. When I started playing Day Z it was also easier to stick to the main landmarks and routes, just to get my bearings. But long gone are the days of "we're certainly alone here, noone ever goes here". Now these are one of the famous last words. 

It could be because on Xbox, duping is out of control, but every “remote” base (or otherwise honestly) I find, is busted open and empty within a day or so of finding it. Just a map littered with half finished or half destroyed walls and zero players around them. Or mega bases I’m populated areas that were clearly the result of duping, where people just endlessly murder Fresh spawns with their piles of duped gear, which also eventually become ghost towns.

I’m speculating, but I feel like what ultimately ends up happening is people move to these seemingly remote locations, spend a day or two working on a base, only to have it almost immediately or instantly destroyed, and then get discouraged with that entire aspect of the game entirely and then just eventually just get bored once the PVP and loot grinds wears off and move on. 

I know for my group, we spent a few days really building a base, 5 or 6 airlocks, really fortified. Felt like no one was getting in. We watched a group raid it in less than 3 minutes, effortlessly. Just completely imbalanced in terms of how long it took to build vs how easy it was to see it get destroyed. We’ve never bothered to build again. So what’s the point of that kind of feature? This doesn’t even account for the myriad of ways players can boost into a base without blowing anything open. It’s like a half assed implementation that seems cool but ultimately serves no real purpose. 

Again, it could have been due to duping and those people having an excess amount of grenades as a result, but my overall point is that while it’s a sandbox game, there are all these half measures of things you can interact with and engage with, that don’t really serve any purpose. 

Honestly I feel like the game just isn’t punishing enough in terms of PVE? Wolves and bears are kind of joke now with shotguns, so food is ample. Weather is easy enough to manage. Once you get full on food and water it’s not difficult to keep it up. Players are always potentially a problem but again, if they aren’t exploring the map because there’s nothing to do or find, you lose the thrill or running into people. 

I mean how many times can you explore Tisy or Swarog and only ever find endless field jackets or field transceivers (another thing NO ONE uses) before you stop wasting your time. I feel loot shouldn’t be your only driving factor, and even that doesn’t go anywhere. It’s a sandbox but there’s hardly any real sand, 

Again; maybe Xbox servers are just so ducked with duping I don’t know. But the game isn’t fun lately. 

[William Sternritter 449]

2 hours ago, thepoey said:

It could be because on Xbox, duping is out of control, but every “remote” base (or otherwise honestly) I find, is busted open and empty within a day or so of finding it. Just a map littered with half finished or half destroyed walls and zero players around them. Or mega bases I’m populated areas that were clearly the result of duping, where people just endlessly murder Fresh spawns with their piles of duped gear, which also eventually become ghost towns.

... 

Honestly I feel like the game just isn’t punishing enough in terms of PVE? Wolves and bears are kind of joke now with shotguns, so food is ample. Weather is easy enough to manage. Once you get full on food and water it’s not difficult to keep it up. Players are always potentially a problem but again, if they aren’t exploring the map because there’s nothing to do or find, you lose the thrill or running into people. 

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? If those bases get looted and destroyed, that means players have been there no matter how remote the area is. As a matter of fact, I believe that is is exactly the result of base building why people started visiting remote areas. Before that people really would not go to edges of the map and so on. I'm the player who mostly enjoys roaming the wild and surviving there, occasionally overlooking a town and it used to be that there was no player activity where I roamed. Since base building, that changed rapidly. 

Recent changes to loot economy fixed some issues, created new ones. I for once like that loot is not refreshed as often and you can go for a very long time without finding some good gear, especially clothing. This all makes survival that much harder and also makes the hunt for player caches much more interesting. For a while now, finding player bases is the best way to gear up. Why risk a high density area like a military base, when you can loot it all from a tent in the woods? 🙂 

But then again I hate that items break down quickly because that completely defeats the scarcity and item tiers when you know that the best and supposedly most durable items, break down just as easily as a starting t-shirt. 

So I really wonder where will Day Z go from here, not a fan of the artificial balancing but maybe that will bring more stability to bases ... we'll see.