Experimental Update 1.09 (Changelog)

[Elmotec 0]

Boa tarde!

cade o pacote de tradução português Br para Xbox One ?

[Tonyeh 454]

6 hours ago, moeb1us said:

you have a weird perception of the game dude. How long is your avatar alive usually? Managing Water/Health will be a factor repeatedly. Yes ofc if you just consumed a whole cow it will give you peace of mind for some hours...as it should

 

The last guy went for over a month, until I blew myself up.

Never had to worry about food for a single second once I got over the first 30 minutes.

The toon I'm using since the 1st Sept. is the same. There was a half hour at the beginning where I looked for a knife and then some chicken meat, Once that was done, food completely ceased to be any kind of an issue. I shot a  cow on the 2nd Sept. and haven't looked back. I didn't even have to take all of the meat that it dropped.

Because it doesn't matter.

There are stags and roebucks everywhere. Wait a wee while and you'll attract a wolf. Cows and pigs spawn very regularly. There are more chickens in Chernarus than there are indoor toilets.

[Tonyeh 454]

6 hours ago, moeb1us said:

so basically all I read from you is whining and complaining about game mechanics or loot and it gets tiresome. Signing off from the discussion about base game mechanics nobody gives a shit about anyway.

Bye so.

[Parazight 1599]

1 hour ago, Tonyeh said:

Never had to worry about food for a single second once I got over the first 30 minutes.

The problem is that simple game mechanics can't out-wit a human.  Additionally, when you group up with other human players, PVE becomes trivial.  Since this is an open world sandbox, you can't regulate these challenges as a game developer.  The hill has to have a crest somewhere.  PVE will never be the most challenging thing.  Other people is what makes this MMO challenging.  So, there will never be a constant challenge to fight hunger.  It's impossible.  Just look at MMOs since the genre has been created.

[Tonyeh 454]

38 minutes ago, Parazight said:

The problem is that simple game mechanics can't out-wit a human.  Additionally, when you group up with other human players, PVE becomes trivial.  Since this is an open world sandbox, you can't regulate these challenges as a game developer.  The hill has to have a crest somewhere.  PVE will never be the most challenging thing.  Other people is what makes this MMO challenging.  So, there will never be a constant challenge to fight hunger.  It's impossible.  Just look at MMOs since the genre has been created.

I agree. Finding the balance is never easy, especially in a game where there are numerous areas to consider. I just think that that balance hasn't been found yet.

You don't even have to carry any food on you at the moment because it's so plentiful. You can't go two minutes in the game without hearing a stag or a roebuck snorting in the near distance.

[Parazight 1599]

2 hours ago, Tonyeh said:

I agree. Finding the balance is never easy, especially in a game where there are numerous areas to consider. I just think that that balance hasn't been found yet.

You don't even have to carry any food on you at the moment because it's so plentiful. You can't go two minutes in the game without hearing a stag or a roebuck snorting in the near distance.

No. Not easy and not possible are two different things.  What you want (sustained hunger challenges) is not possible. 
 

I definitely did not say that the balance was hard to achieve. This infers that it is possible. 

[drgullen 596]

6 hours ago, discipled said:

I like increasing the time to an hour because what it also does, and I too have been playing this game since 2014, create less certainty on knowing if there are players in the recent area.

I get what you're saying as well, but I think this takes away from what DayZ was supposed to be about -- you live, you die, you start again.  If the body is still around approaching an hour after death, it just feels like a cheat to me.  For example, you have a character that's lived for 6 hours and is fully geared and dies in Novy.  Your new spawn can easily get there in less than an hour and boom, you're fully geared again.  The original concept of DayZ was that your death had the penalty of losing all your gear.  I think that concept is lost when the bodies aren't vanishing quickly enough.

[Tonyeh 454]

30 minutes ago, Parazight said:

No. Not easy and not possible are two different things.  What you want (sustained hunger challenges) is not possible. 
 

I definitely did not say that the balance was hard to achieve. This infers that it is possible. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I really don't think people are getting what I'm talking about with this.

[Parazight 1599]

1 hour ago, Tonyeh said:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I really don't think people are getting what I'm talking about with this.

I think that people ARE getting it.  It’s not that hard to understand. 

[drgullen 596]

3 hours ago, Parazight said:

I definitely did not say that the balance was hard to achieve. This infers that it is possible.

Parazight, I'm curious, if you were the devs, how would you balance this out?

[Tonyeh 454]

I think what Parazight is trying to say is that it isn't possible to balance it out.

[Parazight 1599]

2 hours ago, drgullen said:

Parazight, I'm curious, if you were the devs, how would you balance this out?

Tonyeh's want for perpetual hunger isn't obtainable.  And in the bigger picture, as I've been saying for years, is that PVE won't ever be difficult in the long run.  Once you have enough experience, you won't die.  The game isn't instanced and human interaction is absolutely the main thrust of the game.  Any way that a developer could potentially make it challenging is immediately undone when you team up with one other person anyway.  Remember, there's no linear progression.  It's an open world sandbox.

Now let's assume that somehow the game could prosper off of a single player experience.  Let's also assume no technical issues.  Maybe, if you tripled the amount of zeds, made their AI 5 times more deadly, gave them weapons, made their melee attacks infectious which caused diseases, tied food consumption to health regeneration more intimately, and it was dark-dark nights, then maybe it would be more difficult.  But you could still wait it out and out-tactic the computer AI.  Honestly, there are better games where the focus is PVE.  

I wouldn't balance it out.  I'd focus on people interacting with people.  If I was responsible for the game I'd prefer to fix technical issues such as cars and cheaters.

[lex__1 168]

4 hours ago, Parazight said:

I wouldn't balance it out.  I'd focus on people interacting with people.  If I was responsible for the game I'd prefer to fix technical issues such as cars and cheaters. 

+ 100% Technical problems are painful in any scenario. For technical problems, it makes no difference which script to break. I've played a lot on private servers, each with its own written rules, its own script, its own configured economy, and its own configured risk level for the player. These four points form the audience of players who have a set of aspects of the scenario close to the vision of the gameplay. This engages the player in the gameplay. But when a player constantly gets a "throw back", not according to the script, it causes different emotions. One player can leave the game after encountering the first ten technical problems. The second player can endlessly search for workarounds for technical problems. The community wants to play its own script, not a script to compensate for technical problems. The tendency of endlessly present problems in the game - will take any player out of the game, sooner or later.

In any rules of a private server there is a clause that says that the administration is not responsible and does not compensate for any losses of the player due to technical problems. Almost everyone has this rule item in the first lines of the rules. It is true that this is at the top of the rules, as it has a weighty value above any rule or scenario. The server administrator will never remove this paragraph of the rules, as this will lead to the fact that he will be constantly busy with questions of compensation arising from technical problems.

Edited September 5, 2020 by lex__1

[Tonyeh 454]

10 hours ago, Parazight said:

Tonyeh's want for perpetual hunger isn't obtainable. 

This is what I mean by people not getting what I am talking about.

I'm not interested in a "perpetual hunger". Such a thing would be silly and will end up only turning players away, even PVE types.

What I am looking for is a better balance to be achieved in how the player deals with the necessity for food. At present, that necessity is limited to a panicked 30 minutes at the start of each character, that disappears completely afterwards and is never an issue again, because food sources are so, so, plentiful in Chernarus. I'd like to see food be important to the player throughout the toons lifetime and not just some frantic exercise that we have to go through every single time we start anew. Which is why I'd favour a reduction in food sources throughout the map. But that would mean a fuller stomach on arrival, because otherwise everybody would just die within a half hour.

What I am not looking for, however, is a continual struggle to not starve.

[Derleth 1357]

4 hours ago, Tonyeh said:

This is what I mean by people not getting what I am talking about.

I'm not interested in a "perpetual hunger". Such a thing would be silly and will end up only turning players away, even PVE types.

What I am looking for is a better balance to be achieved in how the player deals with the necessity for food. At present, that necessity is limited to a panicked 30 minutes at the start of each character, that disappears completely afterwards and is never an issue again, because food sources are so, so, plentiful in Chernarus. I'd like to see food be important to the player throughout the toons lifetime and not just some frantic exercise that we have to go through every single time we start anew. Which is why I'd favour a reduction in food sources throughout the map. But that would mean a fuller stomach on arrival, because otherwise everybody would just die within a half hour.

What I am not looking for, however, is a continual struggle to not starve.

Although it will never be possible to reach a "perfect" balance like that - it is simply not doable in a persistent sandbox like DayZ, the random nature of how the CLE works to spawn both food and animals will create too much stuff in some areas and too little in some. It is unavoidable. It is, however, definitely possible to balance it better than in vanilla. By utilising the tier system more, along with usage flags and what buildings spawn what type of loot, and tweaking the event numbers on animals, it is possible to retain the mad dash for survival at fresh spawn (which is imho the best part of any life in DayZ, I would hate to spawn fully energised) AND make food play a greater part later in the game. Make looted food very scarce inland, have less domestic animals there too - and make them harder to kill in melee. Sumrak talked a bit about this in his latest livestream and they do have plans to improve animal AI in that regard.

Sooner or later you'll end up having more than you need anyway, but that is perfectly alright since getting well stocked (food and gear combined) is about the only "progression" the game has. Once stocked up other things become more interesting - assembling a vehicle, building a base, defending it. That is also (as I see it) the strongest argument for not making freshies spawn well fed, it will just skip an important part of what little progression the game has. Lots of players would love it I am sure, they'd just be able to sprint to the nearest mil tents to get geared and start pewpewing. The pewpew crowd rarely give a toss about survival anyway since the life expectancy when pewpewing is not great. Most of the time these guys die long before food becomes an issue.

Anyway I believe devs should consider having two different "difficulty" settings for official servers. Normal 1PP/3PP servers working as current vanilla, while "hardcore" should apply to more things than just being locked to 1PP and dark nights. Less guns, less food, less animals, more zombies etc etc. 

[lJamesHalel1 65]

13 hours ago, Derleth said:

Although it will never be possible to reach a "perfect" balance like that - it is simply not doable in a persistent sandbox like DayZ, the random nature of how the CLE works to spawn both food and animals will create too much stuff in some areas and too little in some. It is unavoidable. It is, however, definitely possible to balance it better than in vanilla. By utilising the tier system more, along with usage flags and what buildings spawn what type of loot, and tweaking the event numbers on animals, it is possible to retain the mad dash for survival at fresh spawn (which is imho the best part of any life in DayZ, I would hate to spawn fully energised) AND make food play a greater part later in the game. Make looted food very scarce inland, have less domestic animals there too - and make them harder to kill in melee. Sumrak talked a bit about this in his latest livestream and they do have plans to improve animal AI in that regard.

Sooner or later you'll end up having more than you need anyway, but that is perfectly alright since getting well stocked (food and gear combined) is about the only "progression" the game has. Once stocked up other things become more interesting - assembling a vehicle, building a base, defending it. That is also (as I see it) the strongest argument for not making freshies spawn well fed, it will just skip an important part of what little progression the game has. Lots of players would love it I am sure, they'd just be able to sprint to the nearest mil tents to get geared and start pewpewing. The pewpew crowd rarely give a toss about survival anyway since the life expectancy when pewpewing is not great. Most of the time these guys die long before food becomes an issue.

Anyway I believe devs should consider having two different "difficulty" settings for official servers. Normal 1PP/3PP servers working as current vanilla, while "hardcore" should apply to more things than just being locked to 1PP and dark nights. Less guns, less food, less animals, more zombies etc etc. 

Hardcore servers would be amazing, gives those wanting more PvP style their own servers and those a more survival authentic experience theirs without having to use modded servers.

[The Apocalex 22]

where are these updates at..

[Parazight 1599]

On 9/5/2020 at 10:42 AM, Tonyeh said:

This is what I mean by people not getting what I am talking about.

I'm not interested in a "perpetual hunger". Such a thing would be silly and will end up only turning players away, even PVE types.

What I am looking for is a better balance to be achieved in how the player deals with the necessity for food. At present, that necessity is limited to a panicked 30 minutes at the start of each character, that disappears completely afterwards and is never an issue again, because food sources are so, so, plentiful in Chernarus. I'd like to see food be important to the player throughout the toons lifetime and not just some frantic exercise that we have to go through every single time we start anew. Which is why I'd favour a reduction in food sources throughout the map. But that would mean a fuller stomach on arrival, because otherwise everybody would just die within a half hour.

What I am not looking for, however, is a continual struggle to not starve.

I've never actually been in a zombie apocalypse, but I imagine that not starving would be the least of your problems.  I can't imagine that canned food would even be that scarce if mostly everybody just suddenly stopped eating.  Really, wouldn't you be able to find dozens of knives and preserved food in almost every household?

And what's this about frantic and panicked experience in the first 30 minutes anyway?  If you don't exert yourself at all you wont expend energy or require as much food/hydration.  Spawn, run in to the woods, wait for ambient mushrooms to spawn, make some hooks and go fishing, kill some chickens.  The fact that you are not tied down to a specific area goes a long way to maintaining and progressing your health levels.

Additionally, you could try Livonia.  There's not as much food as Chernarus.  Fruit doesn't spawn on the ground.

It's sounds like what you want is a PVE game based on the TV show "Alone" where survivors go as long as they can and the biggest hurdle is finding food.  Pretty far from having to also deal with hostile Zeds and players that want to kill you, which is what this MMO is all about.

[Monosof 15]

I think when it comes to items persisting on the ground and a player running to his body that problem is mitigated by a lack of food on player start, you want players to be spend that first hour on the coast deciding on a course of action. The CLE, weather and spawn points are only ever going to get harder in this game they have already changed slightly more so in every patch so making the hard push inland is, will, and should. Furthermore things like inertia or movement penalties up hill are things they have talked about.

But still the game is suppose to be immersive, "not a realistic experience but a authentic one" that is why it is cool to see dead bodies and stuff laying on the ground....if they work properly...

[acros 2]

no do build territory flag?

[Tonyeh 454]

On 9/5/2020 at 9:10 PM, Derleth said:

Although it will never be possible to reach a "perfect" balance like that - it is simply not doable in a persistent sandbox like DayZ, the random nature of how the CLE works to spawn both food and animals will create too much stuff in some areas and too little in some. It is unavoidable. It is, however, definitely possible to balance it better than in vanilla. By utilising the tier system more, along with usage flags and what buildings spawn what type of loot, and tweaking the event numbers on animals, it is possible to retain the mad dash for survival at fresh spawn (which is imho the best part of any life in DayZ, I would hate to spawn fully energised) AND make food play a greater part later in the game. Make looted food very scarce inland, have less domestic animals there too - and make them harder to kill in melee. Sumrak talked a bit about this in his latest livestream and they do have plans to improve animal AI in that regard.

Sooner or later you'll end up having more than you need anyway, but that is perfectly alright since getting well stocked (food and gear combined) is about the only "progression" the game has. Once stocked up other things become more interesting - assembling a vehicle, building a base, defending it. That is also (as I see it) the strongest argument for not making freshies spawn well fed, it will just skip an important part of what little progression the game has. Lots of players would love it I am sure, they'd just be able to sprint to the nearest mil tents to get geared and start pewpewing. The pewpew crowd rarely give a toss about survival anyway since the life expectancy when pewpewing is not great. Most of the time these guys die long before food becomes an issue.

Anyway I believe devs should consider having two different "difficulty" settings for official servers. Normal 1PP/3PP servers working as current vanilla, while "hardcore" should apply to more things than just being locked to 1PP and dark nights. Less guns, less food, less animals, more zombies etc etc. 

We're kind of in the same ballpark re: food and I can agree with a lot of what you say above. However, the only reason I say that players should start with a fuller stomach is because if there's less food than there currently is, survival at the beginning will become nigh on impossible. But I understand the potential problems with starting fuller, as it were, because the pew pew crowd will simply head to the NWAF and grab a gun to go fight in Electro or whatever and we're back to the problems we had in the 0.5x version of the game. But I still think that there can be a more challenging balance to be found than currently exists.

As to "having more than you need", this is correct. However, that currently kicks in as soon as you kill your first cow after half an hour of play. I've been running a toon for about a week now and I still haven't touched the beef in my backpack, because I can survive on the canned food that I find everywhere. It's a problem that became apparent to me on a toon I had previously. I played him as a hunter and was going to see how long I could go for just using domestic loot, i.e. no military gear. Within a few hours play, I had a scoped Mosin, loads of ammo and more meat than I knew what to do with. I set up a base of sorts in a remote house and built a load of crates that stored the meat, which I then started to "deliver" to the shops on the coast for new spawns to eat.

It was fun for a little while. But completely without challenge.

Look, I am not saying that development of a game is easy and as someone who's worked in development, I know that trying to strike a balance is a difficult and arduous task and one that is bound to displease someone no matter what you do. I like the idea of a normal/hardcore official server though, where players can progress to Hardcore level, once they learn the ropes on a normal server.

As far as 1PP or 3PP is concerned, if I had my way, it would be all 1PP. But that's another bone of contention, no doubt. 😆

Edited September 7, 2020 by Tonyeh

[Diekatana 0]

Just wondering when will be the next server reset?

[Derleth 1357]

5 minutes ago, Tonyeh said:

We're kind of in the same ballpark re: food and I can agree with a lot of what you say above. However, the only reason I say that players should start with a fuller stomach is because if there's less food than there currently is, survival at the beginning will become nigh on impossible. But I understand the potential problems with starting fuller, as it were, because the pew pew crowd will simply head to the NWAF and grab a gun to go fight in Electro or whatever and we're back to the problems we had in the 0.5x version of the game. But I still think that there can be a more challenging balance to be found that current exists.

As to "having more than you need", this is correct. However, that currently kicks in as soon as you kill your first cow after half an hour of play. I've been running a toon for about a week now and I still haven't touched the beef in my backpack, because I can survive on the canned food that I find everywhere. It's a problem that became apparent to me on a toon I had previously. I played him as a hunter and was going to see how long I could go for just using domestic loot, i.e. no military gear. Within a few hours play, I had a scoped Mosin, loads of ammo and more meat than I knew what to do with. I set up a base of sorts in a remote house and built a load of crates that stored the meat, which I then started to "deliver" to the shops on the coast for new spawns to eat.

It was fun for a little while. But completely without challenge.

Look, I am not saying that development of a game is easy and as someone who's worked in development, I know that trying to strike a balance is a difficult and arduous task and one that is bound to displease someone no matter what you do. I like the idea of a normal/hardcore official server though, where players can progress to Hardcore level, once they learn the ropes on a normal server.

As far as 1PP or 3PP is concerned, if I had my way, it would be all 1PP. But that's another bone of contention, no doubt. 😆

Agreed. Hopefully they'll get around soon to making meat and veggies rot with time, there's a mod for that already - and fruit can spawn rotted - so coding-wise it can't be a big deal, they just need to reach that deep in the backlog. Also I believe they have reduced the amount of canned food with 1.09 now, it was probably not enough to make an impact on exp servers with around 10 players on them, but on medium to high population it will definitely be a noticeable change.

As for reducing food without making the beginning impossible that is possible by using the tier system - if you make the majority of the spawned food appear in the coastal tiers it will mostly be picked up by freshies - or geared folks hunting freshies or lazily looking for canned food instead of hunting. On my server I have basically halved the total spawned food but it only drops in tier 1 and 2 so in fresh spawn areas you will find the occasional can of beans. Once you get inland you need to be more active to stay fed (plus I use Perishable Food so meat stashes are worthless without a fridge...)

[aux7 234]

109 stable release tomorrow, recommending community servers to wipe . .. .

[Joe Scrub 37]