Forced metas

[Jonas Levin 265]

Server-hopping for loot in DayZ clearly can not be compared to cheating in Chess.

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

13 minutes ago, Jonas Levin said:

Server-hopping for loot in DayZ clearly can not be compared to cheating in Chess.

Why? 

[ShallowTech 196]

10 hours ago, Jonas Levin said:

Server-hopping for loot in DayZ clearly can not be compared to cheating in Chess.

Cheating to get an unfair advantage in any game is the same. Regardless of how you are exploiting the game to gain this advantage. 

[Tropic_Pineapples 27]

TLDR; Most people don't know how to play the game correctly and shouldn't be expected to. Arguing the ethics of ghosting gets nowhere and we shouldn't be attacking each others' real lives over a game. We shouldn't expect people to play fair/ condemn them, or complain about how these people play. What we can do however, is prevent ourselves from being a victim of it, and take advantage of the current situation whether it be killing hoppers or knowing where to loot while avoiding them. My suggestion for the problem, like others, is an increasing timer OR a timed 5-10minute roll back of data when joining a new server. 

There's a lot of hate in this thread. Please people, try to remember this is Xbox. While I agree that server-hopping is a cheap way to get looted, it is still generally frowned upon in the Xbox community. However,  1.) the vast majority of the Xbox community isn't on the forums or are new players, so they might not even know how the game is "meant" to be played. 2.) Most people aren't concerned with how the game is meant to be played vs how it is already played. 3.) Calling out people for how they want to spend their time playing, ethically or unethically, doesn't really contribute anything. While it's definitely an exploitation, its an exploitation already in the game. While it's ok to pat yourself on the back for your own moral strength, it's immediately canceled out when you force it on someone else. 

The thread was "forced metas;" we can argue up and down all day without resolution on the "correct" way of playing so why even bother, especially when people start attacking each others' real lives. It's the internet people.. We can't just call out everything we don't agree with as it obviously leads nowhere. 

4.) It shouldn't really be up to the players to decide how to play the game and spend everyone's hours. If someone want's to spend hours, because lets be honest, no matter where you are at, it will take at least a couple of hours, then good job. If someone wants to hop, its still going to take them an hour or two as well and that's ok. Because of the game's current issues, I don't really think we should be arguing how we should play, when the game isn't currently what it should be. Or arguing how anyone should or shouldn't spend the time of their own lives.

5.) Even with server hopping being the game breaking meta it is, the current spawning mechanics help alleviate it to some degree and its unlikely that EVERYTHING will be gone. There are plenty of viable looting spots that just requires maybe a little bit of extra thinking. A good way to get to a virgin server is to put your list to descending and just join a reset server. I never really have a problem playing the "right" way or the "wrong" way, you just gotta use a bit of common sense. 

People have been arguing since the dawn of time methods to alleviate ghosting, but that doesn't change the fact that its here alive and well. Instead of expecting people to do the right thing, because that's not even what happens in real life, players who have a problem should just adapt to it until a fix is implemented, if ever. Everyone knows the problem, so play accordingly. When I run to a military spot that I know is a good spot to server hop, sometimes I just wait and let the loot come to me. Exploit the exploiters, but its not that serious to be arguing who has jobs, kids, wives, etc etc. Its a game at the end of the day folks. 

MY SUGGESTION; its already been said by BI that the reason we don't have character locked servers is because it simply takes up too much data, at least on Xbox. What we'll probably get, and what I agree with most, is an incrementally increasing timer when joining new servers. Or my second suggestion is a timed roll back of data. For example, instead of server timer, you get logged back 5-10 minutes of what your status was. 

[nikoor 180]

6 hours ago, Tropic_Pineapples said:

MY SUGGESTION; its already been said by BI that the reason we don't have character locked servers is because it simply takes up too much data, at least on Xbox. What we'll probably get, and what I agree with most, is an incrementally increasing timer when joining new servers. Or my second suggestion is a timed roll back of data. For example, instead of server timer, you get logged back 5-10 minutes of what your status was. 

so at the end of the night when I wanna quit the game I need to wait for 10 minutes, still, so I won't lose the progress just made? that's just nuts. I suppose if it rolls you back you never picked up that ak and the mags either?

the one and only solution to this is is server locked characters. data takes too much space? there's a solution for that too!

[Tropic_Pineapples 27]

3 hours ago, nikoor said:

so at the end of the night when I wanna quit the game I need to wait for 10 minutes, still, so I won't lose the progress just made? that's just nuts. I suppose if it rolls you back you never picked up that ak and the mags either?

the one and only solution to this is is server locked characters. data takes too much space? there's a solution for that too!

What...? No, that's not even how it works right now. The timer only activates when joining a new server/server hopping; what Im saying is an increased timer to what we already have. Instead of a 90 second timer we have for joining a new server, make it increase each time someone does it. So if they server hop a second time, the timer goes from 90 secs to 5 minutes and so on. OR when server hopping, it rolls you back 5 minutes as in your location and other status. So this would mean that you wouldn't be able to ghost into someones base or shit like that. Unless you literally waited there for 5 minutes.. Im only talking about a solution to the OP; server hopping. And yes, if you're server hopping, maybe you should lose that AK and mag.. And whats the easy solution to too much data? Not attacking you by the way, just saying if there was such a simple solution, Id think BI would've already put it in. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Tropic_Pineapples

[nikoor 180]

19 minutes ago, Tropic_Pineapples said:

What...? No, that's not even how it works right now. The timer only activates when joining a new server/server hopping; what Im saying is an increased timer to what we already have. Instead of a 90 second timer we have for joining a new server, make it increase each time someone does it. So if they server hop a second time, the timer goes from 90 secs to 5 minutes and so on. OR when server hopping, it rolls you back 5 minutes as in your location and other status. So this would mean that you wouldn't be able to ghost into someones base or shit like that. Unless you literally waited there for 5 minutes.. Im only talking about a solution to the OP; server hopping. And yes, if you're server hopping, maybe you should lose that AK and mag.. And whats the easy solution to too much data? Not attacking you by the way, just saying if there was such a simple solution, Id think BI would've already put it in. 

this wont stop server hopping, people will do it no matter how difficult it gets. lock the characters, simple as that.

so let's say I go to mili base and it's 2am and wanna call it after the looting. next time I log in I never looted the place? nuts. I mean no offense I quit smoking just today might be that but your suggestions just don't make any sense to me. what do you do when you need more space for your data?

[Tropic_Pineapples 27]

12 hours ago, nikoor said:

this wont stop server hopping, people will do it no matter how difficult it gets. lock the characters, simple as that.

so let's say I go to mili base and it's 2am and wanna call it after the looting. next time I log in I never looted the place? nuts. I mean no offense I quit smoking just today might be that but your suggestions just don't make any sense to me. what do you do when you need more space for your data?

Its not MY data, its the game's data. I'm too lazy to look for the original post by them, but the reason we don't have an unlimited number of character locked servers is because it literally takes up too much space on their side and its too much for the game to keep track of. No, logging off and logging back in for the first time isn't the same as server hopping so your status would be fine. If they don't make sense, I apologize. What Im saying isn't a new suggestion though, so just look at what other people are saying and assume Im agreeing with them, with the only difference being harder sanctions. 

[Thunderpants_AU 80]

On 1/10/2019 at 2:48 PM, Tropic_Pineapples said:

TLDR; Most people don't know how to play the game correctly and shouldn't be expected to. Arguing the ethics of ghosting gets nowhere and we shouldn't be attacking each others' real lives over a game. We shouldn't expect people to play fair/ condemn them, or complain about how these people play. What we can do however, is prevent ourselves from being a victim of it, and take advantage of the current situation whether it be killing hoppers or knowing where to loot while avoiding them. My suggestion for the problem, like others, is an increasing timer OR a timed 5-10minute roll back of data when joining a new server. 

There's a lot of hate in this thread. Please people, try to remember this is Xbox. While I agree that server-hopping is a cheap way to get looted, it is still generally frowned upon in the Xbox community. However,  1.) the vast majority of the Xbox community isn't on the forums or are new players, so they might not even know how the game is "meant" to be played. 2.) Most people aren't concerned with how the game is meant to be played vs how it is already played. 3.) Calling out people for how they want to spend their time playing, ethically or unethically, doesn't really contribute anything. While it's definitely an exploitation, its an exploitation already in the game. While it's ok to pat yourself on the back for your own moral strength, it's immediately canceled out when you force it on someone else. 

The thread was "forced metas;" we can argue up and down all day without resolution on the "correct" way of playing so why even bother, especially when people start attacking each others' real lives. It's the internet people.. We can't just call out everything we don't agree with as it obviously leads nowhere. 

4.) It shouldn't really be up to the players to decide how to play the game and spend everyone's hours. If someone want's to spend hours, because lets be honest, no matter where you are at, it will take at least a couple of hours, then good job. If someone wants to hop, its still going to take them an hour or two as well and that's ok. Because of the game's current issues, I don't really think we should be arguing how we should play, when the game isn't currently what it should be. Or arguing how anyone should or shouldn't spend the time of their own lives.

5.) Even with server hopping being the game breaking meta it is, the current spawning mechanics help alleviate it to some degree and its unlikely that EVERYTHING will be gone. There are plenty of viable looting spots that just requires maybe a little bit of extra thinking. A good way to get to a virgin server is to put your list to descending and just join a reset server. I never really have a problem playing the "right" way or the "wrong" way, you just gotta use a bit of common sense. 

People have been arguing since the dawn of time methods to alleviate ghosting, but that doesn't change the fact that its here alive and well. Instead of expecting people to do the right thing, because that's not even what happens in real life, players who have a problem should just adapt to it until a fix is implemented, if ever. Everyone knows the problem, so play accordingly. When I run to a military spot that I know is a good spot to server hop, sometimes I just wait and let the loot come to me. Exploit the exploiters, but its not that serious to be arguing who has jobs, kids, wives, etc etc. Its a game at the end of the day folks. 

MY SUGGESTION; its already been said by BI that the reason we don't have character locked servers is because it simply takes up too much data, at least on Xbox. What we'll probably get, and what I agree with most, is an incrementally increasing timer when joining new servers. Or my second suggestion is a timed roll back of data. For example, instead of server timer, you get logged back 5-10 minutes of what your status was. 

If you read closely, you'll see that the hate is from and returned toward one person who was trolling and has said in other threads that he doesn't even play the game anymore. 

I know that the best way to deal with a troll is to ignore them, but this guy is a very poor excuse for a troll and all of his arguments were too easily overturned be resist. 

Overlooking all the trolling and the biting back, you can see genuine players discussing thought out opinions and, from what I've read, the concensus seems to be server locked characters, closely followed by server hopping penalties, which you have described very well in your response. 

You talk about game data and BI not being able to store it all. Imo, that's a weak argument since all of us xbox players have paid for the game preview, so considering how many players there are around the world and multiplying that number by however much the game was (I paid 52 Aussie dollars), that's a whole bunch of money. I realise that Microsoft would have taken a cut, but that would still be quite a tidy sum, so saying that they don't have enough money to buy some new servers and such just doesn't seem reasonable. 

Bringing up that these things have already been said in the past by players and BI doesn't really help anybody. 

The problem still exists so we need to make it known that we want it fixed since, as OP said, it is forcing a meta on players and day z is about choices, not conformity. 

[Jonas Levin 265]

On 9/1/2019 at 8:39 AM, DayzDayzFanboy said:

Why? 

Because there is an obvious difference between exploiting a loophole and straight up cheating, it should be clear enough.

I am not encouraging using the loophole, im just saying its not the same ball-game as what we consider regular cheating in games (moving chess-pieces in ways they are not meant to or when the opponent is not looking or aim-hacks and wall-hacks for computer-games).

Edited January 11, 2019 by Jonas Levin

[Thunderpants_AU 80]

1 hour ago, Jonas Levin said:

Because there is an obvious difference between exploiting a loophole and straight up cheating, it should be clear enough.

I am not encouraging using the loophole, im just saying its not the same ball-game as what we consider regular cheating in games (moving chess-pieces in ways they are not meant to or when the opponent is not looking or aim-hacks and wall-hacks for computer-games).

It has the same effect in this instance; exploiting this loophole ie server hopping to loot up affects the other player base and, if the now looted up hopper and the player not hopping faced off, the odds would be stacked in the hoppers favor. 

A definition of cheating is the gaining of the upper hand in an unfair or deceptive manner. 

The point is clear. 

Don't be a jerk just because you don't agree with the analogy. It is totally beside the point. 

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

1 hour ago, Jonas Levin said:

Because there is an obvious difference between exploiting a loophole and straight up cheating, it should be clear enough.

I am not encouraging using the loophole, im just saying its not the same ball-game as what we consider regular cheating in games (moving chess-pieces in ways they are not meant to or when the opponent is not looking or aim-hacks and wall-hacks for computer-games).

Cheating is cheating, doesn't matter what you call it. 

[Tropic_Pineapples 27]

9 hours ago, Thunderpants_AU said:

You talk about game data and BI not being able to store it all. Imo, that's a weak argument since all of us xbox players have paid for the game preview, so considering how many players there are around the world and multiplying that number by however much the game was (I paid 52 Aussie dollars), that's a whole bunch of money. I realise that Microsoft would have taken a cut, but that would still be quite a tidy sum, so saying that they don't have enough money to buy some new servers and such just doesn't seem reasonable. 

I agree its a weak argument, and that they've made their bread; Im just repeating the words of BI. I'm not a programmer so I can't really tell you why the game is the way it is or even a better/ more feasible solution to that. However, I can tell you by just basic mathematics that server locked characters would take an exponentially larger amount of data because this would apply to everyone who ever logs into that server. Multiply that by any x amount of character locked servers and you could see why that would get out of hand rather quickly, even with a server expansion. Like you, I too think the game doesn't really show where the money went, but what I have done is read their posts faithfully, and right now there are no plans for even private servers on Xbox. Am I happy with that? Nah. Im just saying what BI has been saying for the people in the back who didn't hear lol. 

[ShallowTech 196]

Well regardless of how it is addressed, there should be some deterrent to ghosting and server hopping. I think an increasing timer for hopping servers repeatedly would be helpful. Maybe not after the first or second server change but if you are changing a server every 10-15 minutes, then start adding time to join the next server and significantly to discourage people from doing this. Of course it will not eliminate the issue but it will definitely reduce it.

However, until something is done, the only solution is avoiding these areas. Once you are looted with something and want to combat this a little... Start killing some hoppers! That is our plan a anyway :-) Once geared we will patrol areas, look for hoppers and take them out, or die trying! :-)

[Molecular Drift 1.0 135]

54 minutes ago, ShallowTech said:

Well regardless of how it is addressed, there should be some deterrent to ghosting and server hopping. I think an increasing timer for hopping servers repeatedly would be helpful. Maybe not after the first or second server change but if you are changing a server every 10-15 minutes, then start adding time to join the next server and significantly to discourage people from doing this. Of course it will not eliminate the issue but it will definitely reduce it.

However, until something is done, the only solution is avoiding these areas. Once you are looted with something and want to combat this a little... Start killing some hoppers! That is our plan a anyway :-) Once geared we will patrol areas, look for hoppers and take them out, or die trying! :-)

Hopper sniping is one of my favorite things to do in this game. ;)

[ShallowTech 196]

@Molecular Drift 1.0 Kind of like sitting back and hunting rabbits :-) What is the best gun in your opinion for long range shots? Mosin? Any suggestions on long distance snipping? 

[pilgrim* 3514]

Zones

How about - if you log out inside 300m of a military spawn point (a mil base or airport) - then you have a 90 second logout, AND when you log in again you are given a random login just like a new spawn. You keep all your gear, no prob, but you arrive at random on the map, because you logged out in a mil loot Zone..

1 ) this will slow down hoppers a lot. If they want to hop, they will have to hop outside the Zone.. run into the Zone, loot and run back OUT of the Zone to hop again. This leaves them in play - like normal players - moving into a dangerous area.. They cant hop repeatedly inside one building or tent anymore ..

2 ) Anyone inside the mil Zone will have a STRONG incentive to fight or run if a firefight takes place - they can't ghost and it is highly dangerous to log out with a 90 second timer, and this encourages them to play realistically under stress. If they are cornered in a building, they have the choice of fight, surrender, or make a break for it.. combat logging out is a lot less safe with a 90 second wait during a firefight,  and anyway, doing that will leave them randomly somewhere on the map next time they log in.

3 ) No one who logs out in the ZONE by mistake, or because of a bad connection, or because they have a home emergency, can really complain at all -  because all that happens to them is they have a random spawn point when they log back in.

hm ??

Edited January 11, 2019 by pilgrim*
~

[pilgrim* 3514]

On 1/9/2019 at 8:25 AM, Jonas Levin said:

Server-hopping for loot in DayZ clearly can not be compared to cheating in Chess.

No, but it is like farting every time your opponent tries to concentrate

[ShallowTech 196]

9 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

Zones

How about - if you log out inside 300m of a military spawn point (a mil base or airport) - then you have a 90 second logout, AND when you log in again you are given a random login just like a new spawn. You keep all your gear, no prob, but you arrive at random on the map, because you logged out in a mil loot Zone..

1 ) this will slow down hoppers a lot. If they want to hop, they will have to hop outside the Zone.. run into the Zone, loot and run back OUT of the Zone to hop again. This leaves them in play - like normal players - moving into a dangerous area.. They cant hop repeatedly inside one building or tent anymore ..

2 ) Anyone inside the mil Zone will have a STRONG incentive to fight or run if a firefight takes place - they can't ghost and it is highly dangerous to log out with a 90 second timer, and this encourages them to play realistically under stress. If they are cornered in a building, they have the choice of fight, surrender, or make a break for it.. combat logging out is a lot less safe with a 90 second wait during a firefight,  and anyway, doing that will leave them randomly somewhere on the map next time they log in.

3 ) No one who logs out in the ZONE by mistake, or because of a bad connection, or because they have a home emergency, can really complain at all -  because all that happens to them is they have a random spawn point when they log back in.

hm ??

So I know we will get a lot of push back from this but I think this is a good idea. Like you mention it will keep players in play, no combat logs and hoppers will have to enter the base like everyone else vs. hopping in behind someone. Not sure of the distance but I think this is a good suggestion. 

[Molecular Drift 1.0 135]

1 hour ago, ShallowTech said:

@Molecular Drift 1.0 Kind of like sitting back and hunting rabbits :-) What is the best gun in your opinion for long range shots? Mosin? Any suggestions on long distance snipping? 

I, myself prefer the AKM with PSO-1 scope. Even without the ability to hold-breath, I've become a pretty crack shot with it at ranges up to 600 yards (the bullet drop is very realistic for the 7.62x39mm). A lot of my friends prefer the Mosin for sniping with PU scope (the 7.62x54r does indeed have a flatter trajectory and hits harder), but even though I've had many mosins and scopes, I have yet to even fire one to be honest with you.

[ShallowTech 196]

Nice :-) !

[Jonas Levin 265]

On 11/1/2019 at 10:39 AM, DayzDayzFanboy said:

Cheating is cheating, doesn't matter what you call it. 

Yes, cheating is cheating - but not cheating is also not cheating.

Read what I wrote about the difference, its quite simple.

I dont encourage server-hopping and I see it as exploiting a loophole in the game, but I dont see it as cheating, quite simple as said.

There is way more then one opinion on that, none of them are the truth - just different persons opinions, and none of them are worth more then the others once explained probably.