Lighting

[Derleth 1352]

Hey, I have a couple of thoughts about the state of in-game lighting.

Something I've noticed is that indoor spaces are illuminated according to the outdoor time of day, not by actual light sources such as windows or doors. Hence a completely closed off space without windows, such as the base of the Green Mountain radio mast, will be bright as day even if the doors are shut. That space should be pitch black dark, possibly with some light spilling in through ventilation slits, yet it is always illuminated, even at night with closed doors.

Same goes for any other building, they are nearly always more bright inside than outside which is absurd, since there should be no light sources inside. Any light inside a building should be what comes from windows and doors, or light sources brought in by players. This is all very immersion breaking since it nearly eliminates the need to use light sources. When I go into a house to loot in the middle of night I should NEED to use a light source or not be able to navigate or find anything at all.

Is this something that will be looked at or is it a design choice with the game engine?

As for outdoors, I'm feeling that nights are just not dark enough. Most bright surfaces seem to always reflect a lot of light, even on moonless nights where there should reasonably be no light to be reflected. This has the effect that the ground is always illuminated and because of that navigating at night is just too easy, you never really need a light source which is just wrong. I thought this might just be settings on my side, especially since screenshots tend to be much darker than what I was seeing in-game when I took them, but I've tried messing about with settings without finding a way to make it any different. Is this just how it is now?

[amadieus 313]

Yep indoor lighting is simply too bright. During the day it is not a big problem but during the night it just looks ugly and unreal.

Problem is, according to the map designer, that old parts of the RV engine that are still in the engine block this from happening. If you want to check it out, Adam said this in a tweet conversation somewhere in the summer. They can make it somewhat darker by other means but not by the way you mentioned, if I am correct. Funny thing is that those new barracks at the NWAF from Arma3 are much darker inside during the night in comparison with other buildings. Might be a taste for what is to come when the building interiors will be redone.

My screen is pretty dark by the way, during the night I cant see anything in a forest, a bit more in the fields. Its the same as the screenshots. My friends game is also much brighter and similar to you, his screenshots are also much darker.

[Derleth 1352]

1 hour ago, amadieus said:

My screen is pretty dark by the way, during the night I cant see anything in a forest, a bit more in the fields. Its the same as the screenshots. My friends game is also much brighter and similar to you, his screenshots are also much darker.

I wonder if it is a monitor thing? But the contrast/gamma settings on it are by default controlled by the gpu software so it's my Geforce running the show, and I have not raised gamma on that. So I just don't know what it can be.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Beavis3D

[Private Evans 1303]

This also shows how far away the new engine still really is from being BI's future plattform and how much focus simply was on making it run on the current console versions. 

[pilgrim* 3513]

3 hours ago, Beavis3D said:

Hey, I have a couple of thoughts about the state of in-game lighting.

Something I've noticed is that indoor spaces are illuminated according to the outdoor time of day, not by actual light sources such as windows or doors. Hence a completely closed off space without windows, such as the base of the Green Mountain radio mast, will be bright as day even if the doors are shut. That space should be pitch black dark, possibly with some light spilling in through ventilation slits, yet it is always illuminated, even at night with closed doors.

Same goes for any other building, they are nearly always more bright inside than outside which is absurd, since there should be no light sources inside. Any light inside a building should be what comes from windows and doors, or light sources brought in by players. This is all very immersion breaking since it nearly eliminates the need to use light sources. When I go into a house to loot in the middle of night I should NEED to use a light source or not be able to navigate or find anything at all.

Is this something that will be looked at or is it a design choice with the game engine?

As for outdoors, I'm feeling that nights are just not dark enough. Most bright surfaces seem to always reflect a lot of light, even on moonless nights where there should reasonably be no light to be reflected. This has the effect that the ground is always illuminated and because of that navigating at night is just too easy, you never really need a light source which is just wrong. I thought this might just be settings on my side, especially since screenshots tend to be much darker than what I was seeing in-game when I took them, but I've tried messing about with settings without finding a way to make it any different. Is this just how it is now?

this came up with the "cellar" discussion.. a couple or more of years back.  The reasons given (at the time) that "cellars" or underground areas would not work were :

- It created a big problem with the system of terrain generation
- cellars under houses would create glitch spaces that players would easily get trapped in
- the ambient lighting in DayZ is really UNIFORMLY ambient.. this is why houses cast no shadows. Any "shadow" has to be specially written in -  i.e. your own avatar's shadow.

*

There was work done on the use of electrical torches in houses, because at first the light source shone out "through" sections of the house and could be seen at a distance (so few players used torches, plenty night players turned up their gamma instead) 
I understood this problem was solved.
There is now - once again - work (experiments) - on defeating the gamma exploit

Trees, avatars, etc cast shadows according to sun direction.  Many objects do not.
I do not know why the constituent lower room parts of a house cannot be similarly "written in" to cast a <darker> shadow (ie floor / walls/ ceiling /)  so that there would be darkness inside the room - or at least "standard" shadow - whatever direction the sunlight could be coming from - in the case of a cellar - which on flat low ground would be naturally located beneath sunlight level at all times of day.

*

For light problems at night - to play honestly - try setting your gamma so that DayZ appears natural (not bright) by daylight. Lots of games standardly expect you to increase gamma just to play the game either in daylight or in any other game conditions. Players then tend to just leave their settings like that whether they are playing or not. and get used to having a "bright" screen all day.  (the natural/artificial light in your room makes a difference too, natch) - DayZ has a gamma adjustment in Settings.. and your GPU has a gamma setting - and also your screen itself too (probably).  Set all that stuff to 50% or "normal" and see what DayZ looks like in game daylight.. then see what it looks like at night. nights of no moon should be dark (easy to fall off rocks). Full moon should be light enough to see your way outside, and to see half (a bit)  "ok" inside houses, open doors, notice objects. (not fall off rocks) ... more or less.

that's my theory ..

xxp

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by pilgrim*

[amadieus 313]

6 hours ago, Private Evans said:

This also shows how far away the new engine still really is from being BI's future plattform and how much focus simply was on making it run on the current console versions. 

I don't think that DayZ is a good example of what the Enfusion is capable off since DayZ is still being hold back by elements of the RV engine. A possible Arma4, a game from the ground up, will be a real test for the engine.

[amadieus 313]

6 hours ago, Beavis3D said:

I wonder if it is a monitor thing? But the contrast/gamma settings on it are by default controlled by the gpu software so it's my Geforce running the show, and I have not raised gamma on that. So I just don't know what it can be.

No idea what it is, my friend has the same with every other game he plays. For some reason his games use a different gamma setup than when just browsing Windows.

[emuthreat 2837]

How much RV is still in DayZ?  I thought .63 was supposed to be a complete decoupling from the old engine...

[Private Evans 1303]

59 minutes ago, emuthreat said:

How much RV is still in DayZ?  I thought .63 was supposed to be a complete decoupling from the old engine...

Afaik Soundsystem ( soundtails), realsky , clouds , weather (fog), lighting, occlusion culling... there is a lot of stuff that has been more or less taken from or shared with Arma3.

[Mantasisg 172]

Months ago I speculated that it is one of the reasons why underground structures doesn't exist in DayZ.

DayZ did amazing job with how additional lights works indoors at night. Also as I was playing recently I really enjoyed how exposure works, when you are in a room which is supposed to be darker than outside, you see how much brighter outside appears, also when you leave the house exposure takes a bit time to adjust, even when you go through woods and it is supposed to be darker in there, and you see a well lit tree trunk it appears almost glowing till exposure adjusts, that is a really great effect. But it doesn't seem to work the other way around, and I haven't seen in any game that it would work the other way around, that when you go from much brighter zone to much darker there would be an opposite effect, especially should be noticeable in winter when everything is white and super bright outside.

Thats exactly the reason why raytracing is such a big deal. People say that raytracing doesn't do that much of a difference, but thats till you get into such situations when good lighting in all situations is becoming important. Also they has no idea how much development time goes into faking the light effects by doing various stuff with textures, shaders, invisible objects and all sorts of things and then it still doesn't look right in all ways. 5-6 years more and raytracing will be a normal thing in most games. 

P.S. really excited about counter-measure thing to stop gamma abuse. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Mantasisg

[Derleth 1352]

1 hour ago, Mantasisg said:

P.S. really excited about counter-measure thing to stop gamma abuse. 

Me too! However, I kinda suspect whatever is making me see the world too brightly lit at night will count as gamma abuse so the countermeasures kick in... Which is only fair in that case, but I would like to know whatever the fudge it is that causes it instead. At the moment I have pulled gamma down on the video card instead like Pilgrim suggested. Not to 50% since then I couldn't see fudge all at day even - or indeed on my windows desktop - but to 85% or so. It looks better now, but the boring thing with pulling gamma down is that it dims light sources too which is not right. The night should be dark, the flash light should be my tool to manage.

And yes, DayZ looks absolutely stunning in nearly all other aspects. I even appreciate that annoying effect at dusk where you are blinded when looking at the still bright sky while the shadows are deepening. That effect is impressive, just way too strong just now. You just don't get full on blinded like that every day when the sun goes down...

[pilgrim* 3513]

14 minutes ago, Beavis3D said:

I would like to know whatever the fudge it is that causes it

Set your GPU software back to standard - 50% - or whatever it calls itself in the "Color" settings.. male sure you have not set "Global Settings" and "Game settings" differently (and even inside "Game Settings" you may have different options for each game.    Whatever ! = put them ALL on standard, middle of the slider, factory default..   ya know ?

THEN    

1) Set your screen  back to "factory reset"
2) Go to Windows 'Display' and do the "Calibrate Color" actions from start to finish

you can also find screen calibration software from folk like ADOBE  if you want to check (because pros want their photos to look Right, etc.. instead of looking different on every screen that opens them - which they will anyway, but that's NOT the pro's fault)

 

because you say "even Windows is too dark" - SO then that's where to start.
Set your GPU software to  <<STOP BEING CLEVER, Just shut the fuck up and ACT NORMAL, STANDARD, jeez OK?>> ..    ( see if you can find the button to do this ?)

then do the Windows thing.
Something is messing with your SCREEN brightness (or screen gamma) , not "only"  the "DayZ game brightness"... 
so get VDU & Windows sorted properly first.

Do it by the rule book.

The thing is - lots of folk (most folk, and players) just simply MESS with the different controls (any they can find) until they get something that looks OK at the MOMENT.. but if you check, it probably turns out you turned one value about 80% down, and another thing 90% UP, and then messed with your VDU settings because the room was bright, and then did clever stuff with your GPU settings
because EVERYONE is REAL PROUD of their GPU so  GAMERS ALWAYS MESS with their GPU ..
and then your screen looked a bit bright so you turned it DOWN again, and increased the screen contrast so you could still see the icons...  

And you end up wit a mess that looks ok HERE AND NOW, but give it a different scene, a different game, a photo, or just windows desktop at 2am.. and folk will change "something again" .. and the result is when they load Dayz they cant see anything in broad daylight, or it welds their eyeballs to the back of their heads.

So naturally they blame the game.
 

[Derleth 1352]

37 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

Set your GPU software back to standard - 50% - or whatever it calls itself in the "Color" settings.. male sure you have not set "Global Settings" and "Game settings" differently (and even inside "Game Settings" you may have different options for each game.    Whatever ! = put them ALL on standard, middle of the slider, factory default..   ya know ?

THEN    

1) Set your screen  back to "factory reset"
2) Go to Windows 'Display' and do the "Calibrate Color" actions from start to finish

you can also find screen calibration software from folk like ADOBE  if you want to check (because pros want their photos to look Right, etc.. instead of looking different on every screen that opens them - which they will anyway, but that's NOT the pro's fault)

 

because you say "even Windows is too dark" - SO then that's where to start.
Set your GPU software to  <<STOP BEING CLEVER, Just shut the fuck up and ACT NORMAL, STANDARD, jeez OK?>> ..    ( see if you can find the button to do this ?)

then do the Windows thing.
Something is messing with your SCREEN brightness (or screen gamma) , not "only"  the "DayZ game brightness"... 
so get VDU & Windows sorted properly first.

Do it by the rule book.

The thing is - lots of folk (most folk, and players) just simply MESS with the different controls (any they can find) until they get something that looks OK at the MOMENT.. but if you check, it probably turns out you turned one value about 80% down, and another thing 90% UP, and then messed with your VDU settings because the room was bright, and then did clever stuff with your GPU settings
because EVERYONE is REAL PROUD of their GPU so  GAMERS ALWAYS MESS with their GPU ..
and then your screen looked a bit bright so you turned it DOWN again, and increased the screen contrast so you could still see the icons...  

And you end up wit a mess that looks ok HERE AND NOW, but give it a different scene, a different game, a photo, or just windows desktop at 2am.. and folk will change "something again" .. and the result is when they load Dayz they cant see anything in broad daylight, or it welds their eyeballs to the back of their heads.

So naturally they blame the game.
 

Hahaha thank you.

I haven't actually messed around with any settings at all before this. Well, I did have a problem earlier with all colours - especially deep dark colours - having a washed out greyish look to them. That caused me to have constant night vision in 0.62 and I didn't even realise it until I watched some streamer stumbling around in complete darkness trying to light a torch, whereas I had never needed a light source since I started playing the game.

When I tried to get the game to look like that (with the in-game settings) it was impossible, so I started googling and found out about the Nvidia HDMI issue. After I fixed that, nights in 0.62 looked fantastic but then in 0.63 I received night vision again, only now it's just the ground and objects that are too bright, not that washed out look...

Anyway, I'm going to try going through the steps you described above, but I'm fairly sure that just about everything is already on factory default (except gamma that I pulled down from 1.0 to 0.85 yesterday.)