The Melee combat....Worst shit i have seen in any game.

[Evilsausage 87]

2 hours ago, Avant-Garde said:

 

The thing with DayZ melee is that it has the basics of a very VERY nice mechanic, that is present in these games above. That would be the real time strike with melee, where you should use the swing animations to aim because they matter, different from L4D for example, where melee is hitscan and the animations means nothing at all, in games that use hitscan system for melee, you aim with the crosshair and where you aim is exactly where you are going to hit.

DayZ needs some sort of parry or dodge mechanic and reliable netcode to have decent melee combat, the first and second video I posted should give many arguments to why some sort of deffense mechanic is a must-have thing on melee combat. But before deffensive mechanics we need better animations, because you need to react to them if you are going to deffend yourself. Also we need balancing, because some weapons are usable while others are completely useless. Some are completely stupid even like the pitchfork, try to sidestrafe and attack at the same time with a pitchfork lmao 10/10

It would need a lot of love to be decent tbh, that is, if the netcode or engine even allow such thing to exist in the first place. But I do think that solid melee would make this game something else, ten times better and more interesting in my opinion. Melee fights are scary as fuck, and also very personal, you guys gotta play Chivalry if you haven't so you see what melee can be in first person shooters.

 

Yeah those games have some nice melee also really love the old Jedi knight games, they got awsome lightsabre fights. Darksouls also got pretty nice melee, even if its over the top.
Yes DayZ does have intressting mechanic that has potential, but it doesn't change the fact that its totaly horrible atm.

The swing arc seems odd, somtimes when swinging inside a building you hit a roof even if it doesn't look close enough.

Ofc major problems with syncing, your not really sure where that player really is when you strike.

The weapons are very uneven in how they preforme and alot of them overall seem really bad.

There is no real way to completly counter a flailing zombie, most of the time they will get hits in just because they can strike outside your range. Or its the desync that makes them look like they are outside range..Zombies should definatly be a threat in melee, but not due to BS like this.

The hits blood- and sound effects are horrible.

Overall the movement in Arma 2 and DayZ is very twitchy, making all kinds of close combat really messy.
A person with a shotgun can actually have a major problem countering a guy that attacks with melee, just because he moves around so much combined with the desync. 
Now im not saying its bad a guy can do harm in melee, but it feels silly when somone runs around zigzagging in melee to win. Thats not a how a melee fight should look like.

Imagine a working melee system where a strike can knock the guy with the gun back, making him lose his sight or even drop the gun. While people at the same time can block, i would love you could use your riflestock in combat for example, both blooking and striking. But ofc it could damage the weapon.
 

[Avant-Garde 229]

Yes man I agree! If netcode, engine and this sort of thing allows, they could go crazy on melee mechanics and the game would be great

Imagine the situation, you have a old rusty rifle and a psycho with a bat full of nails shows up screaming,you try to shoot him but your weapon fucks up and get all stuck, you two strugle in melee for a while but you know, in a coherent way, with both attacking and deffending, running at a reasonable speed and avoiding each other attacks etc

Just the fact that you can have a person right in your face trying to kill you and you have to react to what this person does, makes everything intense as hell. And I speak with Chivalry and M&B experience, imagine this translated to DayZ, where even firefights are intese as fuck.

Melee now on dayz is pure luck, you can't even understand whats going on tbh

[sneakydude 480]

They need to reduce the hit boxes, not 1-2 leads ahead.

 

 

 

 

[Espa 711]

After the audio fixes are in, for Melee Combat to become well-done, DayZ has to first implement the new player-controller that shows shifting weight in the body and speeds up/slows down the movements of the body depending on which directions you're sending it. - And obviously Fatigue, so that movement/sprinting is limited.

For example, with this new player-controller it should be that you're not going to be able to zigzag crazily and dodge bullets/melee, you can't spin 360 degrees in less than a second, and you will always be having to shift your characters weight as you turn and it will slow you down.

The physicality of the melee weapon needs to be realized then - Distance of reach, power, speed - Then you can define the exact place the weapon will strike on the screen, perhaps showing an opaque but visible line that the weapon will fall across/land on.

Then the Melee weapons need to have the ability to both do their Main Attack (Stab, Swing) and also do a Bash/Pistol Whip that has a likely chance of knocking someone unconscious if you strike them in the face/back of the head.

For the final touches, the weapon strikes need to have a visible effect on the victim that is struck with one, and in the correct spot it was struck. For example, if I hit someone in the arm with an axe, I want to see blood slowly spilling across their shirt and down their sleeve, their arm slightly mangled and being held by the other arm - or held closely to the body as the person attempts to use a weapon that requires just one arm.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Espa

[Pyongo Bongo 240]

On 20.6.2016 at 2:18 AM, MrJoe (DayZ) said:

Imagine if some day they could add a block\parry system with melee, or a shove.  Would be pretty amazing.

 

 

Of course tho, I can't imagine something like that with the current desync issues..

You can actually block and parry, with most items you can hold, most people do it all the time without intending to :)

Edited July 4, 2016 by homeschooliazon

[Wili 156]

The thing that is more annoying in Dayz melee system in my opinion is not being able to swing your weapon while sprinting, you need to stop sprinting, swing and sprint again; this way you need to be running literally in front of the player you are following in order to have a chance of hitting them, it's almost impossible to hit anyone who is running from you. Maybe a momentary speed lose when you swing your weapon while sprinting and not dealing full damage , like half of the total damage would be nice.

 

[SMoss 2101]

 I don't think Brian meant that the melee combat system is finally done as such. Desync, the new player character, physics, and the new animation system for example are still subject to huge amounts of tweaking/fixing (and implementation in a couple of those cases), and they all have an impact on melee combat. Also, let's see how things turn out once fatigue is a factor to deal with as well. Management of energy/stamina consumption during a lengthy melee fight could help tip the odds in your favor I could imagine.

[Avant-Garde 229]

Just now, SMoss said:

 I don't think Brian meant that the melee combat system is finally done as such. Desync, the new player character, physics, and the new animation system for example are still subject to huge amounts of tweaking/fixing (and implementation in a couple of those cases), and they all have an impact on melee combat. Also, let's see how things turn out once fatigue is a factor to deal with as well. Management of energy/stamina consumption during a lengthy melee fight could help tip the odds in your favor I could imagine.

Oh hello Mr. SMoss!

Nice to hear a dev word about the subject, as I thought it was a forgotten subject even. But Mr. SMoss, realisticaly speaking, wouldn't it take a real long time to implement and test a solid melee mechanic? Its not even mentioned on roadmaps or devblogs. My point being: melee is something as complex as idk, vehicles or deseases maybe, due everything that must be added then balanced and we barely hear about it, I know that you guys plan to work more on melee mechanics, but what are the plans?

What do you guys plan to do with it? What mechanics are planed to be added etc, I feel that there are no solid information about it, as we don't know even the concept of the melee combat you guys want to archive. Like, will it be somehow like Chivalry, where you have a turncap for attacks and you must time and angle your "parry" correctly? Or will it be simpler like M&B? Or even, are you guys planing to do something singular for dayz, like a mix of known melee mechanics that fits the engine limitations etc?

---

In my experience in melee games Mr. SMoss, melee fights don't last long enough. They usually end in less then a minute due how fast people attack each other, and this experience is in games that has slower attack aniations then DayZ. If fatigue is supposed to affect melee, then imo it should be something that for example, punish you if you miss attacks. So you try to hit someone, miss, you take a big stamina damage. If the attack lands, no or very low stamina damage.

What would affect greatly melee combat is a turncap when your swing animations are dealing damage, so you can have this "momentum" thing that doesn't allow people to become goddamn helicopters while swinging; slower movement from characters as well, so you can actually hit something and running like a headless chicken is no longer a thing; and clearer attack animations. Notice that Mordhau video, swings has sort of a nice shader that calls your attention to the fact that the swing is dealing damage exacly where the weapon is going through, it kinda draws the damage tracer in a suble way. This helps people visualise what is going on and how they should be aiming.

Even if a parry mechanic is not something realistic for DayZ due descincs etc, these three changes would already make melee combat more pleasant because you would be abble to understand what is going on, although it would still be a spam-and-run fest because only defensive manuever you have is to run. 

Now, a parry mechanic would do wonders, parry mechanic by itself, even without those factos above, would already drastically change how melee plays on DayZ, even with people running fast as they do.A parry mechanic is useful for regaining initiative in a melee fight, it is what breaks with the spam logic. But for it to work this way, some sort of "ripost" mechanic, or a "recovery state" on the attacker's end is needed, so when someone parry a attack he can gain back initiative and force the attacker to go defensive. Otherwise the attacker can just keep spaming and forcing his opponent into defensive, that can do nothing but run like headless chicken, which kills the whole point of a parry mechanic.

Parry mechanic + riposte or recovery state would kill the immersion breaking run-and-spam fest that is melee nowadays, because if someone attacks me, I parry and he tryies to run, I'm gonna riposte on his back big time, or hit him due this "recovery state", where he loses speed for a really small fraction of time after being parryed. It forces people to stand and read carefully your next move after being parried. All this increases the need for good animations though. Good here means well telegraphed. One must know clearly when the attack is going to land, clear animations provide this. Chivalry, Mordhau and Mount & Blade also have sort of a HAAAA, IAAA sound characters make when the attack starts to deal damage (in Chivalry its called "release phase"), so you can really know when its going to hit you and you can react properly.

And all this on the PVP aspect, the relation betwen player X zombies would change big time as well imo, as it wouldn't feel like bullshit fighting zeds with melee weapons because you can deffend yourself. You guys could make zeds to "feint" attacks lmao, it would be hilarious to see poor little noobs having a hard time read wtf the zed is doing, and also it would still make them formidable foes, but in a more fair way then the bullshit it is now. I say its bullshit because you can do nothing about it but take the hit to the face, its quite unfair and frustrating tbh.

Sorry for the long text man, its that I'm a real melee enthusiast, I would LOVE to see good melee combat in a game like this

 

[Saylor Twift 34]

It's not the melee system, it's the desync

 

Remove the desync (which will probably never happen anyway) and melee will be good.

[elander 4]

@SMoss In terms of advanced melee, gunfight, base building, wild life, horticulture, graphics, animations, net code, loading times etc etc: Is this game engine even suitable for the goal with DayZ at all?

I'm starting to wonder. Looking where we are, what's done, what's planned and the fact that it's 2016.

Sadly, my answer is no.

[sneakydude 480]

On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 10:25 AM, SMoss said:

 I don't think Brian meant that the melee combat system is finally done as such. Desync, the new player character, physics, and the new animation system for example are still subject to huge amounts of tweaking/fixing (and implementation in a couple of those cases), and they all have an impact on melee combat. Also, let's see how things turn out once fatigue is a factor to deal with as well. Management of energy/stamina consumption during a lengthy melee fight could help tip the odds in your favor I could imagine.

I think once you guys get down to the UI, syncing with the controls the Melee might fall in place. What I mean, is when you select your hotbar.... say #1 for your primary the animation is so slow and clunky. You stop moving your legs, pausing up so if you need to cancel the selection it doesn't always work. Your still frozen in time. I would rather have fast reactions from the keyboard to the character instead of locking the animation in.

I think the game mount and blade also has the same clunky UI at times switching into combat. I have it all 3 of them, and love it. I wish I could program the RTG into Total war with first player combat included. So much fun that would be.

What plans are in place to change, or fix the Animations of the character if any?

Its looking rather nice the game. A few bugs I noticed but on the upper scale its coming along great.

 

Edit = Please add the possible auto selection from the UI adding in your current primary weapon into slots 1, and the melee weapon in slots 2. If you need more added to the hotbar or changes you do it yourself. We need a save feature, even if it is painted. It keeps swapping the item out completely leaving you in that stuck animation. I think we all tend to slam the keyboard when that happens.

Edited July 1, 2016 by sneakydude

[Avant-Garde 229]

6 hours ago, sneakydude said:

I think once you guys get down to the UI, syncing with the controls the Melee might fall in place.

It might stop being full retard like it is now, but will still be really far away from good. For me, good melee means that you will have to deal with deep mechanics, like in Chivalry or M&B, where its not simply a matter of strafe + spam but requires strategy and skill.

[sneakydude 480]

Yup I agree with you, I am really into seeing it like M&B I have those games and love them. I also have chivalry and it played very nice (mind you I didn't get to deep into it) the game was dead when I bought it online.

Hack and slash means just that, and we have seen MMO games PVP that give us all the hack and slash we need. It needs to be followed up if Bohemia plans to move forward to different games in the future. It is 150% important they nail this down.

 

[Avant-Garde 229]

Its a shame you bought Chivalry so late, I guess that if you live in EU or NA you probably will still find servers to play with people. Even here in Brazil we still have considerable number of active casual players. Chivalry is mostly dead competitively speaking as far as I understand it, because the game is quite... unpolished for competitive play tbh. Its great fun nevertheless imo! I've lost like 2500h of my life in that game man, I get obsessed with these sort of games you see, complexity makes me very happy

Edited July 2, 2016 by Avant-Garde

[sneakydude 480]

Ah crap wish I didn't buy it so late. All I was seeing was 1 or 10 people playing from the server numbers. I gave up worrying about it. But they don't take the game down for some reason?

 

[oldfossil 59]

Imho one issue that have a bad influence on the melee and combat in general is the possibility for the player to sprint and turn at an insane speed during the fight.

[Camaban 9]

Yeah man, we should have Melee like in Mordhau, car controls like in Dirt ralley, chopper controls like in Apache air assault, a map that is 10,000KM^2 with 2000 man servers and then I want to getz lotz of loot and kill freshspawns!

 

Yay!

[Mallow88 110]

22 hours ago, Camaban said:

Yeah man, we should have Melee like in Mordhau, car controls like in Dirt ralley, chopper controls like in Apache air assault, a map that is 10,000KM^2 with 2000 man servers and then I want to getz lotz of loot and kill freshspawns!

 

Yay!

Or... you know. Decent shit.

[Avant-Garde 229]

On 03/07/2016 at 1:16 PM, Camaban said:

Yeah man, we should have Melee like in Mordhau, car controls like in Dirt ralley, chopper controls like in Apache air assault, a map that is 10,000KM^2 with 2000 man servers and then I want to getz lotz of loot and kill freshspawns!

 

Yay!

No, better yet, lets leave the game with this broken ass melee instead of trying to improve it somehow!

I mean, although I understand DayZ will never have a melee as good as Mordhau, I don't think that this accomodated posture is good tbh. Fact: melee is a problem, not only atmosphere wise because it ruins your suspetion of disbelief, but from a realism standpoint its also REALLY bad its not even funny (realism is one of the core elements in this game's vision right?), and from a gameplay standpoint, it is not fun, doesn't offer a interesting mechanic or experience. Its a bad element in the game and something has to be done.

Now, what must be done? Well I don't know it honestly, because I don't understand how this engine works and I don't know the devs vision about the subject. What I know is other games that has melee mechanics, and that are good, so you know, when talking about melee, what would be a good system?
Chivalry, M&B, Mordhau etc.

Its like, a discussion thing you know. Doesn't mean I want this game to be like mordhau, although it would be fucking great if it had its mechanics!

Edited July 5, 2016 by Avant-Garde

[ebrim 998]

I'm pretty okay with core melee mechanics in DayZ as it stands and I like what Smoss is saying about how fatigue will start to factor in. It's never going to M&B and that's fine, that game is entirely focused on melee, here it is a sideshow that needs to be functional but doesn't really need to be all that deep.