Question about barrels

[IMT 3190]

Hello survivors, lately I have a character on the server "EU WOBO Community Server | 12hr | Admins | 07:00 - 19:00", which is a private hive. This character has a different playstyle, in short I only use a small amount of items and get my food from fishing, apple picking, hunting, etc. The same goes for clothes but as we all know, you only can get those clothes if you tan the leather in a barrel. And yes there is more to PvPing, if you play the game however you want.

My problem is that I am not finding any barrels, at all. I have checked more than 100 sheds (I think even more than 250), industrial building, etc. but haven't found any barrels. Most of these sheds were up the north-east (Belaya Polana, Dobroe, Karmanovka and Turovo). I checked these towns each day at least once or more with no result, even while there was new loot in them.

My question is, is there a limit on barrels, in example 10? If so, does that mean if these 10 barrels are currently "in use" that no barrels will spawn? Or is regional controlled loot already in because I have been checking most of my time in the north-east. However I have spawned in the south and started checking for barrels since I got some cow pelts in the center of the map. So when I went north-east I have been checking sheds along.

I hope you guys can answer my question or I can use someone else his/her barrel so I can move on. Don't get me wrong, I like having an hard time to find something or get something done but this is ridiculous. In these hours (10+) I could have gotten everything to go run and gun with approximately 3 characters and I'm talking fully decked with everything to spread chaos.

Thanks in advance!

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by IMT

[emuthreat 2837]

There is a strong possibility that if you are on a very active server, with a sizable community of regulars, that all of the barrels have been snagged, and carefully stewarded and hidden-away.  I know that barrels stopped spawning for a couple weeks on my home server, until 45-day decay started CLEaning up my barrels that had not been emptied and moved within the past 45 days.  You might have to start looking where one would hide a barrel, instead of where they should spawn.  Don't rule-out interiors of buildings either; I used to like stashing barrels behind the wardrobe across from the payphone in the central room of the single-story, brick pubs.  Good luck.

[IMT 3190]

7 minutes ago, emuthreat said:

There is a strong possibility that if you are on a very active server, with a sizable community of regulars, that all of the barrels have been snagged, and carefully stewarded and hidden-away.  I know that barrels stopped spawning for a couple weeks on my home server, until 45-day decay started CLEaning up my barrels that had not been emptied and moved within the past 45 days.  You might have to start looking where one would hide a barrel, instead of where they should spawn.  Don't rule-out interiors of buildings either; I used to like stashing barrels behind the wardrobe across from the payphone in the central room of the single-story, brick pubs.  Good luck.

As far as I can remember, the developers said that persistent items which are used in camps/owned by players do NOT count towards the Central Loot Economy. But yes, it is an active server and is mostly full.

If this has changed and no new barrels will spawn they need to think about a solution for tanning and other uses of barrels other than storing items. The clue of the game is that you can play however you want, you make the game. By this restriction, you can not play the game however you want which would be a shame!

Edited March 17, 2016 by IMT

[emuthreat 2837]

I do not think that barrels were ever intended to be included in the types of items that the CLE excluded from spawn quota counts.  I think that even tents have a target and maximum number per server.  If you think about what that means to have unlimited spawning persistent items, it should become clear why that wouldn't work.  If a server did not count the number of barrels used by players against the dynamic spawn calculations, it would basically mean unlimited barrels could be deployed with nothing as a stick inside them; exploitable for many fine purposes such as building walls and roadblocks, barricading doorways to popular buildings, trying to build pyramids of protector cases for kicks, and any number of other things.  That would have an abysmal impact on server performance.  I directly observed on a fairly mellow server, the approximate number of barrels allowable before they stop spawning.  I obviously have no way of knowing for sure, but I feel like it would have been somewhere less than 100.

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

Each barrel color spawns and maintains a level of around 30 per color, on .59 - with a lifetime of 8 days without being interacted with.

The 8 days is refreshed any time you move an item inside it.

[IMT 3190]

25 minutes ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

Each barrel color spawns and maintains a level of around 30 per color, on .59 - with a lifetime of 8 days without being interacted with.

The 8 days is refreshed any time you move an item inside it.

So as far as I can understand, this means that when these approximately 120 barrels are in use, no new barrels spawn? Guess I need to start roaming the woods instead of loot spawn points.

Thanks for the info!

Perhaps maybe an idea to make a crafting station or something like that where you can process things without a barrel? I read this in a topic a bit similar to this one (my bad for not checking). Here is the topic.

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

3 minutes ago, IMT said:

So as far as I can understand, this means that when these approximately 120 barrels are in use, no new barrels spawn? Guess I need to start roaming the woods instead of loot spawn points.

Thanks for the info!

Perhaps maybe an idea to make a crafting station or something like that where you can process things without a barrel? I read this in a topic a bit similar to this one (my bad for not checking). Here is the topic.

Last time I checked in on the designs, we fully intend to support "crafted" containers - so that will come.

[Buakaw 274]

54 minutes ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

Each barrel color spawns and maintains a level of around 30 per color, on .59 - with a lifetime of 8 days without being interacted with.

The 8 days is refreshed any time you move an item inside it.

Oh! Thank you. One more question tho, if a private hive has, say, 2 servers connected to it together, how many barrels will there be total? 120 or 240? 120, right?

Edited March 17, 2016 by Buakaw

[igor-vk 909]

I know how you feel dude. I was looking for a barrel for 4 days on low pop server. While Nova Polana has infinite tent spawn. Its often that you cant find that one item you really need.

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

3 minutes ago, Buakaw said:

Oh! Thank you Biran. Me and a lot of other peeps were under the impression you had to pick it up and place it again every 45 days. Also good to know a number. :)

Used to be that way in .58 - before we supported refreshing them

[IMT 3190]

38 minutes ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

Last time I checked in on the designs, we fully intend to support "crafted" containers - so that will come.

Nice, that is good news. I guess I will snatch a barrel from someone for now. *evil grin*

24 minutes ago, igor-vk said:

I know how you feel dude. I was looking for a barrel for 4 days on low pop server. While Nova Polana has infinite tent spawn. Its often that you cant find that one item you really need.

Yeah, that's always the case. When you need something, you can't find it but when you don't need it you will see the item everywhere. But that's pure psychological, to be honest.

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

5 hours ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

Each barrel color spawns and maintains a level of around 30 per color, on .59 - with a lifetime of 8 days without being interacted with.

The 8 days is refreshed any time you move an item inside it.

How will server transferring barrels effect this? I know of a good number of cases where players will take barrels from Server A to Server B, back to their personal bases. Will that still count as the original server's barrel count, increase the new servers, or fill one of the new servers barrel slots? Just curious. ^.^

[pilgrim* 3514]

2 hours ago, [DGN] Johnny said:

How will server transferring barrels effect this? I know of a good number of cases where players will take barrels from Server A to Server B, back to their personal bases. Will that still count as the original server's barrel count, increase the new servers, or fill one of the new servers barrel slots? Just curious. ^.^

When there are so many barrels in play on your public hive server that barrels stop spawning, you can still bring in more barrels from other servers.
Barrels you bring to the server are included in the total number in play on that server.
On the server you take barrels from, they are not counted as in play (spawned) so the server will spawn more.
Stuff that you keep in tents and storage on a server is also not counted as spawned.
This way, I guess the limit to stockpiling loot on a public hive server is when it runs out of memory.

Edited March 17, 2016 by pilgrim*

[Buakaw 274]

53 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

When there are so many barrels in play on your public hive server that barrels stop spawning, you can still bring in more barrels from other servers.
Barrels you bring to the server are included in the total number in play on that server.
On the server you take barrels from, they are not counted as in play (spawned) so the server will spawn more.
Stuff that you keep in tents and storage on a server is also not counted as spawned.
This way, I guess the limit to stockpiling loot on a public hive server is when it runs out of memory.

If two privates are connected to the same hive, how many barrels will there be in total?

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

57 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

When there are so many barrels in play on your server that barrels stop spawning, you can still bring in more barrels from other servers.
On the server you take barrels from, they are not counted as in play (spawned) so the server will spawn more.
Stuff that you keep in tents on a server is also not counted as spawned.
This way, I guess the limit to stockpiling loot on a public hive server is when it runs out of memory.

Eh, didn't answer the question Pilgrim.

Question was, does the barrels count towards the old server, the new server, or does it increase barrel limitation by adding to a new server? Which is important to understand because well established servers or hives will in reflection, have less containers. Connected servers that are less established will then become the meta looting ground for containers like that. Which will create barrel migration, especially if it only increases barrel counts. A long term well established server connected to a public or private hive, that maintains their barrels in that scenario,  could definitely quickly become a server stability issue.

Edited March 17, 2016 by [DGN] Johnny

[pilgrim* 3514]

On 16/03/2016 at 6:13 PM, Buakaw said:

If two privates are connected to the same hive, how many barrels will there be in total?

this is a good question
logically 2 private servers each have a full load of barrels = 2x barrels
Because if not, someone would connect ten private servers together to one shard, and suddenly have only a tiny tiny quantity of loot scattered around a real big space  :)

 

Edited April 26, 2016 by pilgrim*

[pilgrim* 3514]

15 minutes ago, [DGN] Johnny said:

Eh, didn't answer the question Pilgrim.

Question was, does the barrels count towards the old server, the new server, or does it increase barrel limitation by adding to a new server? Which is important to understand because well established servers or hives will in reflection, have less containers. Connected servers that are less established will then become the meta looting ground for containers like that. Which will create barrel migration, especially if it only increases barrel counts. A long term well established server connected to a public or private hive, that maintains their barrels in that scenario,  could definitely quickly become a server stability issue.

Eh, yes I answered the question exactly Johnny   :)

OK - (for you) - the barrels count towards the NEW server
Nope it does not "increase barrel limitation" anywhere. When the server has the max number of barrels in play, no more barrels will spawn. The server does not CARE where the barrels came from.
so if you bring barrels IN you can have far more barrels than would spawn normally on that server.
If you have a server with NO barrels spawned and you bring in 500 barrels - no more barrels will spawn. If you take away all the barrels, more will spawn.
What counts for respawn is the number of barrels in play on the server.

Obviously you can't take barrels in or out of a private shard, so this is public hive stuff

yes barrel migration is TRUE - it really happens !!

But if someone takes away barrels from a public hive server, more barrels will spawn to replace them, so no one looses out in the gameplay.

Edited March 17, 2016 by pilgrim*

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

8 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

Eh, yes I answered the question exactly Johnny   :)

OK - (for you) - the barrels count towards the NEW server
Nope it does not "increase barrel limitation" anywhere. When the server has the max number of barrels in play, no more barrels will spawn. The server does not CARE where the barrels came from.
so if you bring barrels IN you can have far more barrels than would spawn normally on that server.
If you have a server with NO barrels spawned and you bring in 500 barrels - no more barrels will spawn. If you take away all the barrels, more will spawn.
What counts is the number of barrels in play on the server.

Obviously you can't take barrels in or out of a private shard, so this is public hive stuff

yes barrel migration is TRUE - it really happens !!

But if someone takes away barrels from a public hive server, more barrels will spawn to replace them, so no one looses out in the gameplay.

I think this is an English issue, TBH. It's just not terribly clear in your writing what you're saying. Regardless, the point that I was getting to, is loosely in that paragraph.

If a server maxes or nearly maxes their limited items, this will cause item migration. This includes private hives, because private shards can be connected together. If barrels only stop spawning on the migration server, but don't count in the migrated server, then you have an infinite supply of limited items in which you can farm. Which obviously wouldn't be good for the server, eventually. It honestly makes server limitations on items, a restriction in theory rather then application.

Which is more or less my point, in asking the question. Is there something I'm missing there to prevent this, or just a WIP?

[pilgrim* 3514]

18 minutes ago, [DGN] Johnny said:

I think this is an English issue, TBH. It's just not terribly clear in your writing what you're saying. Regardless, the point that I was getting to, is loosely in that paragraph.

If a server maxes or nearly maxes their limited items, this will cause item migration. This includes private hives, because private shards can be connected together. If barrels only stop spawning on the migration server, but don't count in the migrated server, then you have an infinite supply of limited items in which you can farm. Which obviously wouldn't be good for the server, eventually. It honestly makes server limitations on items, a restriction in theory rather then application.

Which is more or less my point, in asking the question. Is there something I'm missing there to prevent this, or just a WIP?

Frankly I don't know about private shard spawning rules. I guess private shards act as a "mini public hive", so each server in a private shard has the same spawning tables and numbers as any public hive server.
That's my guess.
But yes - what you say is true - if you run two private hives on one shard you could farm loot on one and stockpile it on the other. That looks to be true.
There was a thread on this forum started a week or so back - about two private servers linked together, that ran out of memory according to the SP and one of them kept crashing.
I thought this was interesting (for a lot of people)  but no one commented or followed it up.

[heh - there are servers on the public hive that stockpile for sure, and seem to have ways of keeping other players out - lets hope they crash too]

sorry about my english, I have a strange mind.. my fault      :)

 

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by pilgrim*

[emuthreat 2837]

18 hours ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

Each barrel color spawns and maintains a level of around 30 per color, on .59 - with a lifetime of 8 days without being interacted with.

The 8 days is refreshed any time you move an item inside it.

I have at least three barrels in one of my camps that I haven't touched for 10 days.  They are still there.  I'm under the impression that barrels and tents are working in .59, on the 45-day reset rule.  I can go and check later today, to see if I still have control of a barrel that I placed with two longhorns, and haven't touched since the third of march.  I am 95% certain that the 8-day refresh that you described is not working properly on my home server:  <<  = THE HELPY HELPERS: FOR MERCY OR MAYHEM  >>  208.167.250.211:2302

Edit: Confirmed  ^100%^ Certainty:  Barrel was left untouched for 14+ days, and is still on the server.   

 

Spoiler

 

Edited March 18, 2016 by emuthreat

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

44 minutes ago, emuthreat said:

I have at least three barrels in one of my camps that I haven't touched for 10 days.  They are still there.  I'm under the impression that barrels and tents are working in .59, on the 45-day reset rule.  I can go and check later today, to see if I still have control of a barrel that I placed with two longhorns, and haven't touched since the third of march.  I am 95% certain that the 8-day refresh that you described is not working properly on my home server:  <<  = THE HELPY HELPERS: FOR MERCY OR MAYHEM  >>  208.167.250.211:2302

Going to have agree with that.

I don't have a clear study to prove it, but we've left abandoned camps for over two weeks, returned and the barrels are still there seemingly untouched. Still, could be my imagination, haven't done a proper study.

[emuthreat 2837]

11 minutes ago, [DGN] Johnny said:

Going to have agree with that.

I don't have a clear study to prove it, but we've left abandoned camps for over two weeks, returned and the barrels are still there seemingly untouched. Still, could be my imagination, haven't done a proper study.

We have tons of crap scattered around this server, and don't usually have time to get to everything each week.  As far as I know, the 45-day rule is the gold standard for persistent storage CLEanup.  I have a camp with dozens of protector cases and ammo boxes full of grenades and ammo, and I rarely touch the full ones; they are ALL still there.

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

There is a lot of confusing questions in here - so let me try and clear this up.

Quantities are per-server, not per hive.

Moving a barrel away from a servers local storage  to another counts it in the destination, and removes it from the source.

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

3 hours ago, emuthreat said:

We have tons of crap scattered around this server, and don't usually have time to get to everything each week.  As far as I know, the 45-day rule is the gold standard for persistent storage CLEanup.  I have a camp with dozens of protector cases and ammo boxes full of grenades and ammo, and I rarely touch the full ones; they are ALL still there.

No sir - 8 days.

[emuthreat 2837]

1 hour ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

No sir - 8 days.

I'll do a dedicated test with the barrel featured in the screenshot; moved to a sufficiently exotic place.  I don't have the resources to post a security camera on it, but I can hide it well enough to put the margin of error into the 1.0 x 10^-3 territory.  i am nearly prepared to start my foray into streaming.

So just to be clear, the challenge is for me to document a barrel not getting hoovered-up by CLE after 8 days of inactivity?  By what means might I verifiably prove this experience?