Some decent suggestion

[dayzstandalone 0]

Hey, I was thinking about the game a little bit and I thought of a good way to cure some problems in DayZ SA.

 

Make reloading times for automatics much slower.

 

Basically if you get an automatic (even a .380) you can just spray, pray, and reload fast. Many people don't take the time to aim or do anything to conserve ammo or avoid reloading. I understand that some guns can be loaded pretty fast in real life, however, I doubt a civilian could reload an automatic gun quickly like in DayZ.

 

I have come across many people who see me and my friend then begin to spray at us nervously. It is not the spraying that makes people angry. Almost every time a guy sprays at me I just take cover.

 

For instance I was with my friend on a bandit server. We saw a guy 15 feet away and he saw us. He began spraying at us with an MP5 as we took cover and continued spraying hoping a bullet might magically kill us. We got out from cover as soon as I heard the clicks of his gun and we began firing in return (but of course magazines get reloaded quickly so we had to run with no fair chance for us to fire).

Another time, that same day, we were looking for a fresh spawn in another server who tried to attack me. A fresh spawn popped out of nowhere, shot my friend (spraying of course) and ran. I was a couple feet from my friend and the guy was not reloading as he took cover in a house. I rush in the room as I hear him reloading and he finished reloading and began spraying at me again and I died.

Rushing a guy with an auto is a horrible idea in general. If a just started reloading then obviously its pretty strategic to try finishing him off.

 

The reason I think this would solve a lot of combat problems in dayz is because if certain guns have a slower reload speed people would actually try to use a bit of skill, not spray and pray.

 

The problem with reloading is mostly with submachine guns, not longer range weapons usually.

 

I suggest that you add slower reload time for submachine guns just to try out how the combat will change. I seriously doubt combat could get worse by making it so people can't waste rounds, slap a clip in instantly, then continue spraying. What do you guys think?

[Rags! 1966]

Firstly, they are magazines. Not clips. 

 

Let's take, for instance the PM73 RAK. I don't own one (because Radom didn't get enough orders for them), but the closest thing I have to owning one is a Kel Tec Sub2000 which accepts Glock Happy Sticks in the grip. The PM73 mag release button is on the bottom of the grip, while the Kel Tec has a standard mag release button by the trigger on the left side of the grip. Reloading a pistol grip stick mag is very easy. They are easy to hold, they slide close up against your right hand...easy stuff.

 

Reloading if you don't care about the empty mag...  http://imgur.com/lBnM77n

 

Reloading if you want to save the empty mag...        http://imgur.com/icKhEzU

 

I put the Happy Stick in my back pocket to simulate taking it from a ready pocket on the player's body.

 

From a realism standpoint, the speed of reloading isn't the issue. It's the ammunition availability. Mags always come full, boxes are full, ammo is not a concern. There's no reason not to just however many it takes in a spray of lead. Bullets, as of now, are cheap.

 

Besides, the difference between an automatic weapon and a semiautomatic weapon when reloading is nothing. I own AK74s and AK47s, and their civilian variants reload exactly like the select fire versions that militaries and terrorists who, shockingly, don't actually care what your gun control laws are if it's between them and 72 virgins. Civilians can learn to reload just as fast as any Marine can with practice and learning some muscle memory. Reloading a weapon isn't difficult. At all.

 

I think you're looking for the solution in the wrong place. The better solution will come as ammunition becomes harder to find and spraying will be a much riskier proposition. Besides. A couple bullets will kill you anyway. I would wager that the vast majority of close range fights involve no reloading during combat anyway.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Plus, you know, jamming, stovepiping, and other assorted malfunctions. 

You "aren't supposed to" leave spring-fed magazines loaded for a long time ( in my firearms class, I was told a week was about the maximum), as the continuous tension of the cartridges on the spring weakens it (the spring), and this weakened spring can have issues feeding in cartridges. 

 

Plus, you know, dirty bullets. Most of the ammunition in-game is most likely Soviet-era shit-tastic surplus. Weak brass, corrosive powder, primers gone to shit, the whole nine yards. Fire half a mag of shit-surplus from that AKM you found buried in a CHEDAKI stockpile underneath a barn floor, and that thing should totally jam.

 

-sigh- I ..... I just want firearm malfunctions  :(

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

-snip-

 

-sigh- I ..... I just want firearm malfunctions  :(

 

From everything I've read, we are supposed to eventually get jamming dependent on ammo quality and weapon wear.

 

:thumbsup:

[Whyherro123 2283]

From everything I've read, we are supposed to eventually get jamming dependent on ammo quality and weapon wear.

 

:thumbsup:

wonderful

 

I am going to laugh SO HARD when someone points a gun at me in-game and all we both hear is "click"

[dayzstandalone 0]

You raise a sorta good point Rags. The thing is that not every person in the world can pick up a weapon on the ground and instantly know how to use it. + its more fair for the magazines to just reload slower instead of making ammo rarer. Which sounds better, a civilian reloading a gun slower because he is not a gun expert or it being super rare to find ammo in a country?

[Bororm 1156]

What they need to do is add reload times for the magazines themselves.  It should be tied into the new function of holding down the button to perform actions.  So if you wanna load a mag, you sit there and hold the button down/go into an animation until you either finish it or stop it yourself.

 

That way you have to make inventory decisions before a fight, instead of only having to have a couple mags that you can instantly refill from ammo piles.  Combined with the later weight/stamina system, the choice of carrying a bunch of mags will still be valid but have drawbacks.

 

My own personal opinion is that reloading from hot bars/hot keys should just be removed and you should have to manually drag all ammo/mags like you used to for certain weapons.  Then you'd have to arrange the mags in your inventory as well, furthering the experience.  But that isn't going to happen since they went the opposite direction and made it easy to reload everything off the hotbar.

[OnionOfShame 138]

I agree on the reload time issue. The default reload animation should be much longer, but if the player keeps their magazines in their vest they will reload faster. In my opinion this is a more realistic and effective tweak than just mindlessly making ammunition super rare.

[BeefBacon 1185]

terrorists who, shockingly, don't actually care what your gun control laws are if it's between them and 72 virgins. 

 

Ahem, hm. Politics.

 

I'm sure reloading a gun is very easy, but when you're cold, shaking and pumping with adrenaline I imagine its a bit harder if your training amounts to knowing which way to point the gun.

 

I'd be in favour of reload times being dependent on a variety of factors. The size of the magazine, for example (a drum magazine might be a bit of a challenge) your general wellbeing (are you well fed, warm, uninjured?) and the location of the magazine (faster to have it in your vest or jacket than in your backpack).

 

I think I'll say this in all tangentially related topics. The amount of ammunition spawning is okay, the problem is the distribution. Ammunition always spawns in full stacks (and even back when it didn't it spawned in piles of 10 or more). It'd be much better of the number of ammo spawns was increased dramatically, but if those rounds spawned in piles of 1-5 rounds (maybe 1-10 for 9mm, .380 and .22) then it'd be easy to find some ammo, a couple of rounds maybe, but it'd be very difficult to find a lot of ammo unless you completely scour a (hopefully) zombie-infested town.

[Rags! 1966]

 The amount of ammunition spawning is okay, the problem is the distribution.

 

If the same amount of ammunition spawning stayed the same, but was spread out into much more smaller piles, it would be easier to get all the ammo you would actually end up using. There's way too many bullets out there. 

[Rags! 1966]

You raise a sorta good point Rags. The thing is that not every person in the world can pick up a weapon on the ground and instantly know how to use it. + its more fair for the magazines to just reload slower instead of making ammo rarer. Which sounds better, a civilian reloading a gun slower because he is not a gun expert or it being super rare to find ammo in a country?

 

Your character can headshot a target at fifty meters with a Makarov. It's a given that your character is a firearms expert to an unrealistic degree that would make John Wick seethe with envy.

 

Besides, who says your character is a civilian? Your character is in a video game, and when you drag a magazine to the weapon in yoru inventory screen or when you press R, your character had better goddam well reload her weapon as you tell her to. 

 

This is why I tell people DayZ isn't a game about realism. It's a game about realism when appropriate for gameplay. Having your character possess a level of familiarity with equipment in the game is an unrealistic but necessary facet of gameplay. The game designer has to err in the favor of the player controlling the character. The last thing I need is to scream at my monitor as my character fiddles around with something that I myself know how to operate. 

 

My own personal opinion is that reloading from hot bars/hot keys should just be removed and you should have to manually drag all ammo/mags like you used to for certain weapons.  Then you'd have to arrange the mags in your inventory as well, furthering the experience.  But that isn't going to happen since they went the opposite direction and made it easy to reload everything off the hotbar.

 

The old method of reloading weapons was fucking garbage. It was clumsy and cumbersome to an unintuitive degree. Using the hotbar is like using items that your character has placed into her pockets for easy use so that they are "at the ready". If I have, for instance, a single shot IZH rifle, then I'm damn sure going to have my pocket full of spare rounds so I can just shove another cartridge in the rifle easily. That's what the hotbar simulates. 

 

Plus, you know, dirty bullets. Most of the ammunition in-game is most likely Soviet-era shit-tastic surplus. Weak brass, corrosive powder, primers gone to shit, the whole nine yards. Fire half a mag of shit-surplus from that AKM you found buried in a CHEDAKI stockpile underneath a barn floor, and that thing should totally jam.

 

The boxes they are found in would lead one to believe otherwise. The game takes place in, at least, the year 2000 AD based on a sign that references "since 1999" I believe. Chernarus clearly had a market for firearms and so modern rifle cartridges would be abundant in theory. All the boxes of modern rounds lead us to believe that they are indeed modern rounds produced in Russia or imported.

 

Not so surplus, methinks. Bar code on the side of the .357 pack.

 

 

Calm Bear rounds are made in Russia. Not the USSR. That means that the oldest they are is from 1991.

 

 

Also made in Russia. 

 

Made in Russia.

 

 The flag shows us that the 12 gauge shells were made in the greatest god damn country in the world and will never fail to fire. 

 

  Now the old Mosin rounds definitely look like they are surplus. But in my experience, all the rounds I've fired have always worked...

Edited January 16, 2016 by Rags

[BeefBacon 1185]

If the same amount of ammunition spawning stayed the same, but was spread out into much more smaller piles, it would be easier to get all the ammo you would actually end up using. There's way too many bullets out there. 

 

Bear in mind that there will eventually be zombies. You won't be able to go through whole towns all by yourself, and you won't be able to take on groups of zombies with a melee weapon. If you pick at the edges of towns then you will eventually pick up plenty of ammo, but that would take a long time - and odds are that the edges of towns are where most people are going to be looting, so there'll be slim pickings. Players will also likely use what little ammo they have on zombies as well as players, so it's not as if players will just build up their ammo until they find a player. They'll be using it continuously. I remember back in .55/.54 - around then - when zombies made a brief comeback and were hard as nails. I ended up actually using my gun on them because it was the safest way to deal with them.

 

That, to me, sounds a whole lot better than hitting some random house an accidentally finding 20 rounds, or scouring half the map and finding one bullet for a gun I've never seen.

[pilgrim* 3514]

This is maybe off topic?

 

Every real-life action helmet-camera engagement I have seen, the fighting soldier drops the empty mag when he loads a fresh one.

He leaves it on the ground. No one pockets a mag or picks up an empty while under fire. Point me to video examples if I missed out, I've never seen anyone do that.

But in DayZ an empty mag jumps by itself right back into the middle of your backpack? - while you are fighting?  - this is strange.

 

In DayZ the empty mag should fall to the ground when you eject it - then you have the choice of picking it up, or leaving it there, or looking for it later.

 

I think this would change players attitudes to firefights.

[OnionOfShame 138]

This is maybe off topic?

Every real-life action helmet-camera engagement I have seen, the fighting soldier drops the empty mag when he loads a fresh one.

He leaves it on the ground. No one pockets a mag or picks up an empty while under fire. Point me to video examples if I missed out, I've never seen anyone do that.

But in DayZ an empty mag jumps by itself right back into the middle of your backpack? - while you are fighting? - this is strange.

In DayZ the empty mag should fall to the ground when you eject it - then you have the choice of picking it up, or leaving it there, or looking for it later.

I think this would change players attitudes to firefights.

There's actually a piece of equipment designed specifically for this purpose called a drop pouch. It's just an smallish open pouch located on the soldier's left thigh, designed for them to quickly drop a spent mag in and grab a new one. Would be nice if we could get one of those or craft one with a burlap sack. Maybe we should have an animation to put the old mag away and take a new one out, which would be much faster with a drop pouch. I don't think mags should be dropped though. In DayZ you never know if a dropped item will go at your feet, or where you were 30 seconds ago, or through the floor, or 30m in the air above you, or if it will just disappear altogether. Mandatory item dropping is just asking for trouble, especially with items as potentially-valuable as magazines. Edited January 16, 2016 by OnionOfShame

[Rags! 1966]

. I remember back in .55/.54 - around then - when zombies made a brief comeback and were hard as nails. I ended up actually using my gun on them because it was the safest way to deal with them.

 

The zombies were "hard as nails" because they were some bullshit. Desync, impossibly long striking distances, teleporting, inconsistency...when zombies are finished they won't exhibit the same unintentionally frustrating behaviors. 

[BeefBacon 1185]

The zombies were "hard as nails" because they were some bullshit. Desync, impossibly long striking distances, teleporting, inconsistency...when zombies are finished they won't exhibit the same unintentionally frustrating behaviors. 

 

Not the same, no, that'd be awful. But there'll be more of them, and presumably they'll be smarter and lethal beyond just doing a lot of damage per-hit. Point being that when zombies were a threat, I found myself using a gun. I didn't use a gun when they could be one-shot with a fireaxe and strafing around rendered them harmless.