Day Z as it should be : The Earth Abides

[Noctoras 409]

None. Noone needs a farming simulator.

 

It should be a sandbox, give you the opportunity to go alernative paths. Right now the only game element developed sufficiently is PvP. No incentive to do anything else and all I hear about new updates are new vehicles, camo pants and guns to kill each other.

 

Killing should be an alternative. Needs to be an alternative. But we have a game where the former inhabitants apparently had more guns than water bottles (must have lead poisoning), you feel like rummaging through a supermarket and have no challenge at all besides PvP. That's my beef, not that people are indeed able to kill each other. Later on the road there will be more to do? What will that be? Base building, okay, I got that, yet this is just another extension of PvP. Base building is needed (basically I would also love the idea of being able to modify existing houses). PvP is needed.

 

But if I don't feel like jogging simulator waiting for someone to kill, I want my char to also have another challenge. Doesn't need to be crops. Let's put it this way: I am not opposed to PvP, I want more and I want incentives to do things other than PvP as well. Mechanics which make other stuff than PvP fun.

[chrithu 59]

... The designers never wanted a game like that. Survival? Sure. But a game where you die by crop failure? Yeah, right.

 

Like I said in another post: Go revisit Dean Halls' old posts from 2012 and 2013, he always talked about diseases, weather, hunger and thirst becoming a serious challenge similar to Project Zomboid. And back then the crowd in these very forums asking for that was a lot bigger. The reason we are so few giving still input on that stuff is that ultimately the Mod and the Standalone still fail to deliver on that side of the content, while at the same time more than good alternatives to DayZ were developed when it comes to survival game mechanics. And the way I perceive things this is not because the devs follow a trend in their playerbase. It has ever since been due to shortcomings of the engine. Thus naturally they deliver more guns, outfits and vehicles because that's what the engine was used for ever since. This is an chicken vs. egg problem. DayZ delivers more PvP content because it is easier to get done with that engine, hence the PvP playerbase grew and grew while the survival game playerbase shrank due to lack of fun game mechanics.

 

On another note: Paying with your char's live if you fail to find medicine or fail to find enough food or grow enough crops to keep your hunger sustained indefinitely is the very definition of a survival game. If the only real danger to your live is another player with a gun the game is NOT a survival game it is just a First Person Shooter. And frankly if you judge DayZ just as that (as a FPS), one has to ask what actually makes DayZ stand out above any Arma 3 mod that adds persistence and gun modding? Answer: NOTHING.

 

In the end I think it's worse than Noctoras said. DayZ will not lose players, it pretty much has already lost a chunk of it's players.

[Schlake 2]

Like I said in another post: Go revisit Dean Halls' old posts from 2012 and 2013, he always talked about diseases, weather, hunger and thirst becoming a serious challenge similar to Project Zomboid. And back then the crowd in these very forums asking for that was a lot bigger. The reason we are so few giving still input on that stuff is that ultimately the Mod and the Standalone still fail to deliver on that side of the content, while at the same time more than good alternatives to DayZ were developed when it comes to survival game mechanics. And the way I perceive things this is not because the devs follow a trend in their playerbase. It has ever since been due to shortcomings of the engine. Thus naturally they deliver more guns, outfits and vehicles because that's what the engine was used for ever since. This is an chicken vs. egg problem. DayZ delivers more PvP content because it is easier to get done with that engine, hence the PvP playerbase grew and grew while the survival game playerbase shrank due to lack of fun game mechanics.

On another note: Paying with your char's live if you fail to find medicine or fail to find enough food or grow enough crops to keep your hunger sustained indefinitely is the very definition of a survival game. If the only real danger to your live is another player with a gun the game is NOT a survival game it is just a First Person Shooter. And frankly if you judge DayZ just as that (as a FPS), one has to ask what actually makes DayZ stand out above any Arma 3 mod that adds persistence and gun modding? Answer: NOTHING.

In the end I think it's worse than Noctoras said. DayZ will not lose players, it pretty much has already lost a chunk of it's players.

Day z does offer more than Arma and other fps games: serious consequences for death. And later down the line, it would be nice for more survival. But the game as OP pitched it would not fall in line with this audience much at all. Better yet, it would seem like a game with nothing rewarding to it at all. Just pure tedium. We all have jobs and the real world for that. I cant imagine anyone saying: "I sure cant wait to water crops and have to hide indoors because a little rain will kill me!'

[Noctoras 409]

Well, it's the same bullcrap (sorry) for PvP. No point in a shooter, where it takes you 20 minutes to get to a firefight as a freshspawn (ans that's optimistic) - or camp on a hill for 20 minutes. in its current state its not viable as a shooter either.

[Schlake 2]

Well, it's the same bullcrap (sorry) for PvP. No point in a shooter, where it takes you 20 minutes to get to a firefight as a freshspawn (ans that's optimistic) - or camp on a hill for 20 minutes. in its current state its not viable as a shooter either.

Well I'm sorry you cant enjoy the adrenaline rush firefights that my friends and I enjoy about this game. But if youre looking for action and not 'camping on a hill' please feel free to battle my friends and I at the NWAF.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Day z does offer more than Arma and other fps games: serious consequences for death. And later down the line, it would be nice for more survival. But the game as OP pitched it would not fall in line with this audience much at all. Better yet, it would seem like a game with nothing rewarding to it at all. Just pure tedium. We all have jobs and the real world for that. I cant imagine anyone saying: "I sure cant wait to water crops and have to hide indoors because a little rain will kill me!'

 

Please, tell me: what are the serious consequences for death that you mention?

 

Losing gear? -pfffftttttt- I can get all that shit back in a couple minutes, an hour tops. "Good" players don't give a shit about gear. Sure, losing a "nice" gun, or a "good" backpack is a little "aggravating", but if you think it is a "serious consequence", you haven't learned Rule #1: Don't get attached to your gear

 

Losing Time: Meh, whatever. 'Every man must die", and whatnot. I can sprint across the map in 30 minutes tops. With several days off from work during a week, time isn't an issue.

 

Calling it "permadeath" was a mistake from the beginning, because what the game has now is most definitely not "permadeath". What to know what permadeath might entail? Being barred from the server for a day. Not being allowed back into a public server at all. Not "respawning after a 30 second timer and running back to your gear".

 

So, with all of that in mind, what are the "serious consequences to death" you keep on mentioning? Because all I see right now is a Deathmatch game with comically-long respawn timers.

 

Oh, and a "survival game" doesn't just have to be about picking berries and keeping warm. One of the things I would most love to see is a complicated, drawn-out medical system. Where injuries can't be instantly healed with a dirty piece of rag. Sure, you could strap said rag around that cut, but it won't stop the bleeding right away, and you would stand a good chance of getting an infection.

 

Knife to the arm? Strap a bandage around it, and the bleeding will slow down and stop after a few minutes.

Knife to the gut? A bandage isn't going to help. A friend is going to have to go in there with needle and suture and close you up. Better hope you have enough soap/antiseptic to keep your wound clean!

Bullet to the gut/torso? Better use that knife while you can. No medicine in the game-world will help you now. "Go out your own way", and all that. 

 

Wounds won't stop bleeding until they get pressure applied, and a bandage wrapped around them. The more severe the wound, the more work it takes to stop the bleeding. Pressure bandages < suturing < tourniquet/ligation/hemostats. Bandages will also get dirty, and have to be replaced in order to prevent infection. That rag you tore from a shirt would stop the bleeding, but you would want to sterilize it. This could be with some alcohol, some antiseptic, or just boiling them. 

 

Internal bleeding (caused from knife stabs, arrows, bullets, etc) should be death sentences. There is no place outside of a modern hospital (which, coincidentally, don't exist anymore) where you can survive both the bullet wound and the treatment. 

 

What does this mean? Don't get fucking shot

 

Diseases, infections, and such should be far more prevalent. Right now, the only way to get a disease in Day Z is to essentially try to get the damn thing. There is a saying in "survival"; regardless of what you do, a wound will get infected. It should be really difficult to keep a wound clean. Infections should be the norm. Same thing with waterborne diseases. Right now, there is a well in literally every single town across the map. Some towns have more than one. With all of that potable water,  why even bother including waterborne diseases?

 

Simple: either remove 95% of the wells from the game, or make them "broken" and require new parts, just like vehicles. Boom, potable water is now a serious issue.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Whyherro123

[bfisher 561]

 Seriously.  I got so bored picking apples in Cherno I ended up driving my family out to the country to pick apples with my inlaws for real.

Edited October 7, 2015 by bfisher

[Whyherro123 2283]

 Seriously.  I got so bored picking apples in Cherno I ended up driving my family out to the country to pick apples with my inlaws for real.

 Of course, the in-game "foraging" mechanic for picking apples and berries is completely asinine. It should be changed. 

[Kirby12352 67]

Please, tell me: what are the serious consequences for death that you mention?

 

Losing gear? -pfffftttttt- I can get all that shit back in a couple minutes, an hour tops. "Good" players don't give a shit about gear. Sure, losing a "nice" gun, or a "good" backpack is a little "aggravating", but if you think it is a "serious consequence", you haven't learned Rule #1: Don't get attached to your gear

 

Losing Time: Meh, whatever. 'Every man must die", and whatnot. I can sprint across the map in 30 minutes tops. With several days off from work during a week, time isn't an issue.

 

Calling it "permadeath" was a mistake from the beginning, because what the game has now is most definitely not "permadeath". What to know what permadeath might entail? Being barred from the server for a day. Not being allowed back into a public server at all. Not "respawning after a 30 second timer and running back to your gear".

 

So, with all of that in mind, what are the "serious consequences to death" you keep on mentioning? Because all I see right now is a Deathmatch game with comically-long respawn timers.

 

Oh, and a "survival game" doesn't just have to be about picking berries and keeping warm. One of the things I would most love to see is a complicated, drawn-out medical system. Where injuries can't be instantly healed with a dirty piece of rag. Sure, you could strap said rag around that cut, but it won't stop the bleeding right away, and you would stand a good chance of getting an infection.

 

Knife to the arm? Strap a bandage around it, and the bleeding will slow down and stop after a few minutes.

Knife to the gut? A bandage isn't going to help. A friend is going to have to go in there with needle and suture and close you up. Better hope you have enough soap/antiseptic to keep your wound clean!

Bullet to the gut/torso? Better use that knife while you can. No medicine in the game-world will help you now. "Go out your own way", and all that. 

 

Wounds won't stop bleeding until they get pressure applied, and a bandage wrapped around them. The more severe the wound, the more work it takes to stop the bleeding. Pressure bandages < suturing tourniquet/ligation/hemostats. Bandages will also get dirty, and have to be replaced in order to prevent infection. That rag you tore from a shirt would stop the bleeding, but you would want to sterilize it. This could be with some alcohol, some antiseptic, or just boiling them. 

 

Internal bleeding (caused from knife stabs, arrows, bullets, etc) should be death sentences. There is no place outside of a modern hospital (which, coincidentally, don't exist anymore) where you can survive both the bullet wound and the treatment. 

 

What does this mean? Don't get fucking shot

 

Diseases, infections, and such should be far more prevalent. Right now, the only way to get a disease in Day Z is to essentially try to get the damn thing. There is a saying in "survival"; regardless of what you do, a wound will get infected. It should be really difficult to keep a wound clean. Infections should be the norm. Same thing with waterborne diseases. Right now, there is a well in literally every single town across the map. Some towns have more than one. With all of that potable water,  why even bother including waterborne diseases?

 

Simple: either remove 95% of the wells from the game, or make them "broken" and require new parts, just like vehicles. Boom, potable water is now a serious issue.

 

 

 

That's always the problem with these survival sims. They're supposed to be realistic, but most people wouldn't enjoy games that are that difficult, so in turn they wouldn't buy the games. As a result, the survival systems always have to be toned down to appeal to the masses. I understand though that a line has to be drawn somewhere in the difficulty so that people still buy the game.

 

I would personally enjoy it if the survival and medical systems were made more difficult. Food isn't an issue, and neither is the medical system half the time when you have plenty of shirts and sticks around for bandages and splints. The zombies also aren't an issue, and they really never have been. Rarely am I ever killed by zombies, starvation, or any of the survival mechanics. My death is almost always caused by players, because when it's so easy to get gear and food and medical supplies, there's really no reason for people not to run around the coast gunning down new spawns. Not that I do that, I just understand why other people do. If people had to work harder to get their gear and their medical supplies, that would make them care more about staying alive, which would in turn make this game more of a true zombie apocalypse simulator, rather than just another deathmatch game with survival aspects sprinkled in. Plus, it would give people an incentive to form groups, which are always interesting. But groups rarely get formed because first of all, there's no real reason to when death is hardly a concern, and second of all, people don't even talk about teaming up in game because they're too busy shooting each other in the face.

 

I'm not asking for this game to be so hardcore that you can't blow your nose without dying, I'm just saying it would be more enjoyable if it didn't take only half an hour to be fully geared, because then it turns into, as Whyhero123 said, a deathmatch with very long respawn times.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Kirby12352

[Noctoras 409]

PCalling it "permadeath" was a mistake from the beginning, because what the game has now is most definitely not "permadeath". What to know what permadeath might entail? Being barred from the server for a day. Not being allowed back into a public server at all. Not "respawning after a 30 second timer and running back to your gear".

 

This is making the concept of permadeath obsolete anyway. Get someone to protect your gear for some minutes, take it back. Pointless. About as much perma as snow in the desert.

[Noctoras 409]

That's always the problem with these survival sims. They're supposed to be realistic, but most people wouldn't enjoy games that are that difficult, so in turn they wouldn't buy the games. As a result, the survival systems always have to be toned down to appeal to the masses. I understand though that a line has to be drawn somewhere in the difficulty so that people still buy the game.

 

One the one hand sacrificing realism for fun. On the other hand making people spend 30 minutes to get to the fun - and if things go bad 30 minutes till having fun again. There is either something really not adding up, or the game's target group is people with either severe masochism or with nothing to do at all in their rest lives.

 

As you said, the survival part is simply pointless at present, it's a deathmatch on a map too huge with too small a player count combined with ridiculous respawn times. Oh, and last but not least, a perma death which isn't perma if you have a buddy around. That's asinine.

[pilgrim* 3513]

Dayz is a game of player interaction that was forged by pvp and fear of zombies. Not dying because you stand out in the rain too long. Dont forget that the lead designer of this game, Mr Hicks, is a bandit. Which most people love to hate. You wont be getting an ultra hardcore survival game.

 

You really have a thing about rain hu ? You know rain exists in real life too ?  I think you don't want to admit it, but look deep into your soul - you know it to be true.

Has no one ever told you that wearing a raincoat can cure you of this phobia ?

 

[hey - don't take offense - I had to explain to my own son that Pingu really exists, At first he didn't believe me either, but now he's older - he understands]

 

DayZ is in fact an online first person shooter

the proof is all the exploiters running round the map to the exploit areas to get M4s and mags, and kicking each other off public servers so they can do it first. Why are they only collecting military guns and ammo ?

 

People have a great fascination about killing with guns (it's a psychological thing like your own fear of rain except much more common)

I've heard psychiatrists say the desire to kill is built into human nature from way back, heard others other say the gun fetish is due to a crap sex life, heard others say it's just kids who naturally want to murder their fathers but we won't let them.

I don't know about any of that - I'm male, born well endowed, girls say I'm ok, got no firearms fetish IRL, don't have much of any urge to carry guns or any other weapons or even kill rabbits

Can do If I have to - I'm not squeamish, ya know.. and don't mind getting wet either...I have faith in the existence of Pingu and I've spent nights in holes dug in the snow, but that's all just me ..

 

If people didn't have this thing about killing other people, then most PvP games online would be tennis or football or chequers, or car racing, or skipping contests, but they aint.

 

There is nothing in SA it that is not in "Earth Abides" - we have already reached the last chapter of "Earth Abides" in the DayZ SA game, except for the one difference that in SA new guns and ammo keep springing up out of the ground all the time for some reason. Remember in the last chapter of "Earth Abides" where all the public servers were join=kick and nobody cared about anyone else any more ?  The community had broken down . That was just before the END.

 

if I knew what "ultra hard core survival" meant, I could answer how "hard core" I'd like this game to be. - Do you mean "no guns" or do you mean "no rain" or do you mean no "join/kick" servers or do you mean no "love to hate", or do you mean something else?  And why does "Hicks is a bandit" have something to do with this?

I do KNOW that the loot-farmers and the exploiters and the public kickers are NOT running around storing up fishooks, and seeds for sure. Take the guns away, give players chunks of metal instead to hit each other, and you already got "Earth Abides".

 

I'll survive anyway. And may Pingu have mercy on you all.

 

xx pilgrim

 

[edit:] I ought to point out , about "survival" and "community" - that if you have a group or a clan of 5 or 6 guys with TS, with guns and maybe a base to defend, fighting another 5 or 6 dudes with the same, it is NOT a community, it's not "life after the apocalypse" etc .... it's just a Team FPS game. 

Edited October 7, 2015 by pilgrim

[KandyCid 30]

They've got a game for you: Rust.  Most people dont want to run around looking for water and being killed because they stood out in the rain too long.  Or they get hit by a rat and contract a disease which kills them.  That sounds like real fun.  Or you make the long trek to find civilization only to find that theres no clean water, you get a disease and then you die.  This will catch on for sure.

You do know Rust isn't a survival game right?

 

- if you've played it then you know the servers are 200 players and on a 35 player server you meet some1 every 5 minutes, you craft your own weapons and its all about taking what other pl have, survival dosent exist in rust, only respawning in your base and going again 

 

- guess you could say their having the same issues we have, were surrounded by Greed and it has consumed all it has touched

 

 

-+ if DayZ isn't finished for  5 years so it can become SURVIVAL and not PvP then so be it..but all survival games are just hardcore PvP

Edited October 7, 2015 by KandyCid

[Bororm 1156]

Yeah Rust is even more pvp focused than DayZ honestly.

[Kirby12352 67]

You do know Rust isn't a survival game right?

 

- if you've played it then you know the servers are 200 players and on a 35 player server you meet some1 every 5 minutes, you craft your own weapons and its all about taking what other pl have, survival dosent exist in rust, only respawning in your base and going again 

 

- guess you could say their having the same issues we have, were surrounded by Greed and it has consumed all it has touched

 

 

-+ if DayZ isn't finished for  5 years so it can become SURVIVAL and not PvP then so be it..but all survival games are just hardcore PvP

 

 

You're exactly right about Rust. I went into it thinking it was more of a survival game than a PvP deathmatch, but I was very mistaken. Instead of it being a game about sharing resources with other players, building forts, and fighting off the occasional bandit like I'd been led to believe it was, it's actually just a bunch of naked men running around smashing each other's heads in with stones while the overlords of the servers sit in their castles laughing at the noobs fighting over crumbs.

 

DayZ isn't quite that bad yet, but it's not far off, which is pretty disappointing. I wish something would be added to encourage cooperation between players, like zombies that are actually a threat.

[Schlake 2]

You really have a thing about rain hu ? You know rain exists in real life too ? I think you don't want to admit it, but look deep into your soul - you know it to be true.

Has no one ever told you that wearing a raincoat can cure you of this phobia ?

[hey - don't take offense - I had to explain to my own son that Pingu really exists, At first he didn't believe me either, but now he's older - he understands]

DayZ is in fact an online first person shooter

the proof is all the exploiters running round the map to the exploit areas to get M4s and mags, and kicking each other off public servers so they can do it first. Why are they only collecting military guns and ammo ?

People have a great fascination about killing with guns (it's a psychological thing like your own fear of rain except much more common)

I've heard psychiatrists say the desire to kill is built into human nature from way back, heard others other say the gun fetish is due to a crap sex life, heard others say it's just kids who naturally want to murder their fathers but we won't let them.

I don't know about any of that - I'm male, born well endowed, girls say I'm ok, got no firearms fetish IRL, don't have much of any urge to carry guns or any other weapons or even kill rabbits

Can do If I have to - I'm not squeamish, ya know.. and don't mind getting wet either...I have faith in the existence of Pingu and I've spent nights in holes dug in the snow, but that's all just me ..

If people didn't have this thing about killing other people, then most PvP games online would be tennis or football or chequers, or car racing, or skipping contests, but they aint.

There is nothing in SA it that is not in "Earth Abides" - we have already reached the last chapter of "Earth Abides" in the DayZ SA game, except for the one difference that in SA new guns and ammo keep springing up out of the ground all the time for some reason. Remember in the last chapter of "Earth Abides" where all the public servers were join=kick and nobody cared about anyone else any more ? The community had broken down . That was just before the END.

if I knew what "ultra hard core survival" meant, I could answer how "hard core" I'd like this game to be. - Do you mean "no guns" or do you mean "no rain" or do you mean no "join/kick" servers or do you mean no "love to hate", or do you mean something else? And why does "Hicks is a bandit" have something to do with this?

I do KNOW that the loot-farmers and the exploiters and the public kickers are NOT running around storing up fishooks, and seeds for sure. Take the guns away, give players chunks of metal instead to hit each other, and you already got "Earth Abides".

I'll survive anyway. And may Pingu have mercy on you all.

xx pilgrim

[edit:] I ought to point out , about "survival" and "community" - that if you have a group or a clan of 5 or 6 guys with TS, with guns and maybe a base to defend, fighting another 5 or 6 dudes with the same, it is NOT a community, it's not "life after the apocalypse" etc .... it's just a Team FPS game.

My fear of rain was just an exaggeration of a few posts saying that the environment should be a threat. But some people actually do believe that standing out in the rain should kill you. Which is absolutely ridiculous. Or that we should be battling diseased rats. Maybe the ultra hardcore 'non kiddie' survival game is appealing to you. I must be honest, some of it sounds cool but you guys want to take it too far. That would turn this game into a chore and not enjoyable in the slightest.

Of course, if youd like to keep taking subtle shots at my intelligence like a child go ahead. But it doesnt help your position whatsoever. Like it or not, people REALLY like pvp and its going to be the main mechanic for a while.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Schlake

[Whyherro123 2283]

My fear of rain was just an exaggeration of a few posts saying that the environment should be a threat. But some people actually do believe that standing out in the rain should kill you. Which is absolutely ridiculous. Or that we should be battling diseased rats. Maybe the ultra hardcore 'non kiddie' survival game is appealing to you. I must be honest, some of it sounds cool but you guys want to take it too far. That would turn this game into a chore and not enjoyable in the slightest.

Of course, if youd like to keep taking subtle shots at my intelligence like a child go ahead. But it doesnt help your position whatsoever. Like it or not, people REALLY like pvp and its going to be the main mechanic for a while.

You do realize that "standing out in the rain", can, and often does, kill you in real-world survival, right? Or, getting wet in general, which can result from rain, falling/standing/getting splashed by a stream, or even sweating.

 

It causes hypothermia. Hypothermia can kill you very fast. Especially in Autumn, (which is the season that Day Z takes place in) where it can get down close to, or even below, freezing at night.

 

Or, diseased rats. Much of the game takes place in urban areas. Where I am from, the "dike rats" can reach a foot or more in body length, and are absolutely lousy with diseases. They eat fucking garbage, after all, and don't really give a shit about people. In the world of Day Z, what are they likely to be eating? Rotting human bodies, more garbage, and other assorted nastiness. Getting bit by one of those doesn't sound like a fun time. Not that diseased rats should be the "main enemy", or even an especially prominent one, but they should definitely be something to think about.

 

Finally, us "survivalists" generally don't want to get rid of PvP. This is something many PvP-supporters don't seem to understand: it is either "ALL PVP ALL THE TIME" or "living in the woods eating twigs and berries". The reality is something in the middle. I want PvP to be in the game, hell, I get into firefights all the goddamn time.

 

I just want the other "aspects" of the game to be viable as well. I also want PvP to be done for an actual reason, not just because "there is jack-shit else to do". I want players to be fighting over clean water, or a stockpile of food, or the materials for pressing new ammunition. Bandits attacking traders, clans attacking clans. Not "we found each other in Berezino and spammed the left mouse button"

 

Right now, the "Survival aspect" of the game ends as soon as you eat 5 cans of food and spam the wells. As soon as you get "energized", it is off to kill players at the NWAF. A disappointing waste of 225 square kilometers of territory.

[Schlake 2]

You do realize that "standing out in the rain", can, and often does, kill you in real-world survival, right? Or, getting wet in general, which can result from rain, falling/standing/getting splashed by a stream, or even sweating.

It causes hypothermia. Hypothermia can kill you very fast. Especially in Autumn, (which is the season that Day Z takes place in) where it can get down close to, or even below, freezing at night.

Or, diseased rats. Much of the game takes place in urban areas. Where I am from, the "dike rats" can reach a foot or more in body length, and are absolutely lousy with diseases. They eat fucking garbage, after all, and don't really give a shit about people. In the world of Day Z, what are they likely to be eating? Rotting human bodies, more garbage, and other assorted nastiness. Getting bit by one of those doesn't sound like a fun time. Not that diseased rats should be the "main enemy", or even an especially prominent one, but they should definitely be something to think about.

Finally, us "survivalists" generally don't want to get rid of PvP. This is something many PvP-supporters don't seem to understand: it is either "ALL PVP ALL THE TIME" or "living in the woods eating twigs and berries". The reality is something in the middle. I want PvP to be in the game, hell, I get into firefights all the goddamn time.

I just want the other "aspects" of the game to be viable as well. I also want PvP to be done for an actual reason, not just because "there is jack-shit else to do". I want players to be fighting over clean water, or a stockpile of food, or the materials for pressing new ammunition. Bandits attacking traders, clans attacking clans. Not "we found each other in Berezino and spammed the left mouse button"

Right now, the "Survival aspect" of the game ends as soon as you eat 5 cans of food and spam the wells. As soon as you get "energized", it is off to kill players at the NWAF. A disappointing waste of 225 square kilometers of territory.

Realism does not equal good gameplay. Remember this is a game. And it should be fun. Tedious should not be a word to describe this game. And worrying about dying from the rain or being bitten by a rat while running through the forest wouldnt make this game any more fun than it is currently. I wont bother to debate the realism of such things, but what I will argue is that adding things like that in the game will not improve it at all.

I agree with you that pvp should be done for a reason. But what the op suggested are all terrible ideas for gameplay. I want to get people off the coast too. And his ideas certainly would, because there would be no one left to play this game but a handful if they were implemented.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Schlake

[Whyherro123 2283]

Realism does not equal good gameplay. Remember this is a game. And it should be fun. Tedious should not be a word to describe this game. And worrying about dying from the rain or being bitten by a rat while running through the forest wouldnt make this game any more fun than it is currently. I wont bother to debate the realism of such things, but what I will argue is that adding things like that in the game will not improve it at all.

I agree with you that pvp should be done for a reason. But what the op suggested are all terrible ideas for gameplay. I want to get people off the coast too. And his ideas certainly would, because there would be no one left to play this game but a handful if they were implemented.

 

1) Hi, I am the OP.

 

2) You do realize that hypothermia is already in the game, right?

[KandyCid 30]

yeah the jungle rot is real people =_= and I haven't found any soap or deodorant anywhere so better stay dry, grab a dress if it bothers you or play a different game because this game is tagged as survival and not pvp but at the same time it's advertised to be the Survival game you want it to be..even the devs pvp in their youtube sessions I've seen, but a free roam server would be nice where there were strict PvP zones...Saints of Survival server has the where you only KOS and PvP in military zones, Air Fields, and Tent Cities but KOS still happens there but the Admins are very active and even have a clan that plays on the server...but even with those restrictions and several admins banning, ppl still cant get robbed without getting themselves killed and sure as hell cant stand for someone to talk to them if they have full gear.. 

 

something happens when ppl get a rare weapon, they become scared and paranoid or something

 

Hint^  KOS is great thing to do but like I said free roam restricted kos servers would be nice if ppl could handle it, it is a multiplayer game built around interaction...

 

also played a Rust Modded server yesterday, you spawn in fully geared, grenades C4 medz, the works, 15x looting and ppl actually had bases there, a great clan server good for PvP

Edited October 7, 2015 by KandyCid

[Noctoras 409]

we'll just wait and see. Many people left the game already, if gun after gun is added, this will continue for a lack of things to do.

 

As a PvP shooter it isn't needed. We have Arma. We have CoD. No need for a shooter where it takes 30 minutes to start shooting.

 

If we go down this road the player numbers will slowly, but surely dwindle and with the introduction of modding, the game will most likely not be revived, but splinter into mini fractions not worth mentioning. Kandy is right, it has been tagged as survival or sandbox, but currently it is none of it. The latest "community scrum" basically was a PvP session as well, so I remain sceptical.

Actually, I think Schlake might be right on this game remaining a PvP shooter. He probably is wrong in it having a bright future, though.

[Kirby12352 67]

we'll just wait and see. Many people left the game already, if gun after gun is added, this will continue for a lack of things to do.

 

As a PvP shooter it isn't needed. We have Arma. We have CoD. No need for a shooter where it takes 30 minutes to start shooting.

 

If we go down this road the player numbers will slowly, but surely dwindle and with the introduction of modding, the game will most likely not be revived, but splinter into mini fractions not worth mentioning. Kandy is right, it has been tagged as survival or sandbox, but currently it is none of it. The latest "community scrum" basically was a PvP session as well, so I remain sceptical.

Actually, I think Schlake might be right on this game remaining a PvP shooter. He probably is wrong in it having a bright future, though.

 

 

I agree with this. DayZ seems to be having an identity crisis, where it doesn't know whether to be a zombie apocalypse survival game or just another shooter. If the main thing that keeps getting added is more guns, they might as well just do away with the whole survival aspect, because in it's current stage it's just a minor annoyance to have to search around for a few cans of peaches before the shooting begins.

 

To the people who say the game was intended as a PvP game, yes, that was a mentioned aspect of the game, but the entire game wasn't supposed to be focused around it. It was supposed to be a PvP/survival game. The only reason it's looked at as a mainly PvP game now is because the survival part has been so neglected to the point that it's almost forgotten.

[scriptfactory 620]

The elements for survival are all there. They just need to be balanced.

That said, survival isn't a goal. This isn't The Long Dark. Survival in DayZ is a constant process that keeps you busy while you wait to interact with others. The primary goal of this game shouldn't be staving off starvation...

I can't wait for progression and increased communication and interaction between players. Motivators. More events (hopefully via radio) and multiple forms of progression (e.g. skills, bases, gear, etc.) can't come soon enough.

[pilgrim* 3513]

My fear of rain was just an exaggeration of a few posts saying that the environment should be a threat. But some people actually do believe that standing out in the rain should kill you. Which is absolutely ridiculous. Or that we should be battling diseased rats. Maybe the ultra hardcore 'non kiddie' survival game is appealing to you. I must be honest, some of it sounds cool but you guys want to take it too far. That would turn this game into a chore and not enjoyable in the slightest.

Of course, if youd like to keep taking subtle shots at my intelligence like a child go ahead. But it doesnt help your position whatsoever. Like it or not, people REALLY like pvp and its going to be the main mechanic for a while.

 

Yes - sorry Schlake, I was kidding around a bit. Also I was a bit obscure and ironic, sorry. I should have been more clear.

The real trick for DayZ to work, is to keep a balance between PvP tournaments and "hard" survivalist gaming, with some players interested in one end, some players interested in the other end.

ATM If you want PvP you have to "survive" = bandage wounds, eat and drink, find ammo, etc, just to be able to play the military PvP clan battle game

Also if you want to hunt, fish, make stuff with a flint and cowguts, you still have to protect yourself with weapons and ammo, go into town sometimes, and be ready for any bandits or PvP geared-up players turning up in a truckload or two.

So the ideal would be:

- At one end you could live out in the woods, make everything from scratch, and never see another player the whole game (but you might get sniped by a KoS anyway, or meet a PvP pro squad)

- At the other end you could PvP as much as you like, live your whole game-life in your fave deathmatch area (but you still have to find gear and weapons and food.. and not get too wet)

- AND you could if you want play your game anywhere in between those two extremes. And change your playstyle to any balance between those two, whenever you feel.

The map's big enough for both, but there are a couple of problems coming up (IMO):

- IMO there is too much urbanization now - all through the Mod and at the start of SA, you knew where you could find miles of wild lonely woods, and also you knew exactly where to go if you wanted a fight. It's a pity there are no longer whole BIG areas of wilderness, because if there were, then players who wanted a hard-to-find base would put it out in the real sticks and also have to move distances overland to get their dose of PvP

- Players who are in the game for PvP want military weapons and clothes - this is their expectation when they joined and they get pissed off when they can't get those easily - its a "player expectation", not "a fault in the game" - this is proved by games like - well, any fantasy PvP game you care to choose - you do not NEED an M4 to PvP, you can use spears, shotguns, sledgehammers, whatever.. but players who arrive from standard CoD and deathmatch games come to DayZ with that expectation (modern military hardcore). Perhaps they've been encouraged too much (maybe?) but those players are an important voice in DayZ, there are many of them.

- Players who want "survival" find it too easy to survive ATM.. so I guess they want more 'hardcore' survival. But ya know, IRL "hardcore survival" there really ain't no such thing. IRL either you can make it and stay alive where there is food, protection, and the stuff you need (IF you are smart enough and know how the locality works) or there is not what you need... if it's minus 30 degrees at night and there is no game, no plants, then you're screwed, however well trained you are as a Real Life Survivalist.(sure you can survive a night or even a week, but you cant LIVE there, no way, you will 100% die).

 

But if you can find seeds, make shelter and scavenge in towns for food and old blankets and bits of metal to make knives etc, then you can survive ("easily") - But that is post apocalypse survival, NOT "out on the tundra alone" survival. So the survival aspects of DayZ are a little too much "nature trail" = roughing it in a pretty, non-extreme, nice environment .. and not nearly enough "post apocalypse".

eg no "survivalist" in their right minds would use flints for arrowheads if they could find an old hacksaw and fix a section of sharpened factory gate iron on the end of their wooden spear.

So at present for the PvP players, scarce ammo is just making them nuts and they complain, it's not the game they signed up for.

And for the survivalists, woodsmen, it's not a challenge it's just a habit once you've understood the parameters of the game and how each object  works... the country is not going to dustbowl on you, it's never going to be minus 12 at night, there are no forest fires, the hunting season lasts 12 months, the apple trees always have apples all year round, and the major danger to your crops is a server restart - if you can't "survive" in this sweet temperate nature-trail country it's because you haven't noticed it's all laid on for you.

Where the interest comes in - is in the spread of players and how they interact - the PvP dudes and the backwoods farmers, the total-fun players and the serious "I want to stay alive" players, the TS3 ARMA-style teams and the solo hillbillies, and the "I never speak" hawkeye hunters..    

The moral of all this is - the more that is provided for the whole spread the more the game will work.. "the survivors" will have to fight more and the "fighters" will have to survive more.

First thing to do - obvious -  is Bring in the Zombies in a BIG way... that will even out the spread across all kinds of player. It was a basis of the game. Zombies were FIRST and PvP was Second in the original concept. Everybody had to survive, and surviving meant - first off -  dealing with the zombies. Ya had to deal with other players too, but everyone had to deal with the zombs all the time.

Second thing is - find a way to calm down the PvP players who expect 100% a PvP modern military game, and are convinced that collecting gear is a pain. Make adjustments to move hardcore PvP towards a multi-weapon event and not just an ARMA/deathmatch faceoff in one or two small well-known areas (and do it without loosing half the player-base).

Third thing is - put a whole large area of wilderness into the game (or back into the game) . This will benefit both types of players, specially with tents, bases, vehicles - and maybe helicopters - coming in.

[ - just to put it on record, because I doubt this will happen:  if some players wanted real "hardcore" survival, have highlands up in one corner where terrain is difficult to travel and it is always below zero at night... so it's "really" hard to survive there, but with the advantage that fewer players would turn up in that area..]

Fourth thing is - move the "survival aspects" from the already good 'wilderness' survival more towards "post apocalypse" survival. Add in the hundred things a real-life survivalist would do with recovered items from the ruins of society.

Just examples - you can cook up a good meal on a trashcan lid, in an old can, or on any square of metal cut from a car bonnet/roof (also you can make a stash from a buried trashcan - I've seen this IRL) - you can make knives and gutting tools out of bits of recovered metal, you can cut with broken window-glass, find grinding wheels in wrecked factories, you can use an old blanket for 50 different things from backpack to bag to stash to tent to personal cape or hideout camo - [so strange there are no blankets in Chernarus after the end of civilization, that must be the only thing you can guarantee every house on the map must have 2 or 3 or more... but there ain't any]

*

OK - We know that all this stuff together can only be "realistic" inside the gameplay - you can't wait in the game for 3 whole game-time months for your crop to grow, and you can't in the game take a M4 round that incapacitates you - so you can stop the bleeding but you can't fight (for a day or a month), you can only crawl maybe, because you have a fractured scull, fractured pelvis or 4 broke ribs, So realism can only be inside the terms of the game, it has to be limited to 'game realism'. Surviving in the real wild can be shit-difficult and hard work, surviving in the ruins of a civilization can be easier than that, but still not "fun". Game PvP can be real exciting, but a real life assault on an enemy position ain't nowhere near that feeling. There are truly very few people who love the sensation of engaging an armed enemy, and not many who like living on the bare ground in a forest and eating grubs either.

So "game-fun" has to be a limit at both ends of the game - the PvP end and the Survival end. For game "realism" things such as having to eat every game-hour, and getting "cold", "shaking" "starving" after 15 minutes, and being able to change a magazine directly from your backpack into your gun while under fire, and ... huh.. all those things (everyone can think of plenty) those are all acceptable as game-imitations of "reality" in a game-limited way.. because ... it's a game. Many can be improved but it's always got to be a game (for fun). If people like to wear raincoats to stop themselves dying from hypothermia, and people like to have gun-sights that are always zeroed, and everyone likes to run as fast as a sprinter in shorts, with a full backpack and a weapon and a pickaxe on their back  ... then ok... ATM that's acceptable..

*

As for Earth Abides (a good book back in it's time) - If you look at DayZ SA you see the real breakdown of society has already happened. I dont mean "the apocalypse" I mean that most everyone exploits game weaknesses, half the public servers are kick servers - (I got a "real" Battleye notice onscreen today from a public server saying Kicked from the game because "Not on Whitelist") - hey, public server? Seems like the general attitude is 'Me first and screw the Game". That can only end one way IMO.

So the society has broken down, I mean the DayZ society, not even the in-game society, where there was never any idea of "cooperation to rebuild civilisation". The players of DayZ are already moving themselves into the Last Chapter.

xx pilgrim

[Bororm 1156]

Well said Pilgrim.