Abundance is Realism

[jqp 9]

Sorry but your logic is flawed. It's more like: Day 1: Panic. People stock up, Stores are emptied. People can eat. Day 2: People are holed up, most people eat as normal. Stores are not resupplied. Day 3: People are coming to the end of their food. Most will stay holed up. Those without supplies will begin to search for food. Vulnerable people will become targets. Day 4: Anarchy. You seem to imagine a situation where the stores and larders are full then with a snap of god's fingers most of the population just die.

 

I get what you're saying - write it so that humanity starves before the zeds come along. But this demands a plausible explanation for why the disruption of the food supply is happening. Presumably, it was the zed infestation that caused the disruption. The zombies aren't going to sit around twiddling their thumbs while people eat up all the food (stuff that will spoil first, then the stuff with a shelf life). If they did, why would the food deliveries stop in the first place?

 

It also demands a lower survivor:zed ratio (starvation takes weeks, varies in duration depending on size, age, weight, health, etc; people would die in a relative trickle, so they'd have plenty of time to figure out if the dead are coming back as zeds, and take preventative measures, e.g., immediate death rites), thus further weakening the menace of the Zombie Apocalypse.

 

I've got a couple weeks worth of canned food and peanut butter set aside in my cabinet, always do (come to think of it, probably more like a months' worth, bumped up to 2 if I've just been to the grocery store). Lots of people keep similar stocks (I live in hurricane country; most people live somewhere that justifies a bit of preparation, whether for earthquakes, storms, floods, volcanoes, unrest, psycho gov't, etc., so stockpiling a bit of stuff isn't that rare. They're also more likely to be survivors, incidentally.).

 

The longer it takes the zombie horde to start outpacing starvation (which takes weeks) in terms of body count, the more sissified it starts looking as an Apocalypse. You've got to make the Zombie Infestation dangerous - at least to the unprepared, pre-Apocalyptic population - or you kill the mood the game's trying to create.

 

And again, there's the game supply. The same objections keep coming up, and I keep having to give the same answers.

 

P.S. I've already offered an explanation for scarcity, if that's what you want: The Road scenario, which I think I mentioned twice before. Or something similar to that.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Morlock

[jqp 9]

One thing post-apocalyptic mass entertainment skips over, to the detriment of the genre (IMO), is religion. People would get very religious in a Zombie Apocalypse scenario. At least Christians, Jews, and Muslims (don't know enough about eastern religions to guess) would tend to. Think about it, a hell of a lot of lapsed members of Abrahamic faiths would see a ZA as Armageddon, not to mention Proof of the Holy Word. Mormons are obligated to prep for disasters and end-world scenarios, I think it's safe to say they'd be dialed more toward the fanatic end of the spectrum in a ZA than they are now (no offense meant to Mormons, a people I admire, btw).

 

A sensitive issue, but one worth thinking about, IMO, even if just in terms of game world background, level design, writing, etc.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Morlock

[nl 986]

One thing post-apocalyptic mass entertainment skips over, to the detriment of the genre (IMO), is religion. People would get very religious in a Zombie Apocalypse scenario. At least Christians, Jews, and Muslims (don't know enough about eastern religions to guess) would tend to. Think about it, a hell of a lot of lapsed members of Abrahamic faiths would see a ZA as Armageddon, not to mention Proof of the Holy Word. Mormons are obligated to prep for disasters and end-world scenarios, I think it's safe to say they'd be dialed more toward the fanatic end of the spectrum in a ZA than they are now (no offense meant to Mormons, a people I admire, btw).

 

A sensitive issue, but one worth thinking about, IMO, even if just in terms of game world background, level design, writing, etc.

I think religion is left out with good reasons. The game(-s) would alienate some demographics and/or lead to heated discussions, arguments, hate and so. We have that enough in the real world...

[jqp 9]

Bean King: fair enough, still think it's food for thought. (ETA: Orthodox Christianity has made quite a remarkable comeback in the former USSR, from what I hear. Food for thought indeed, if we're trying to depict a culture based on those of that region. ETA2: sorry to keep editing, but violence in games offends a lot of people. In fact, a lot about DayZ in particular offends a lot of people.)

On the previous issues:

Plus, isn't the zombie infestation supposed to infect people? Sick people consume more water and meds (relatively speaking) than food. They don't hang around long eating food if it's the Zombie Apocalypse. The longer it takes the disease to overcome the human population and bottom out the survivor:zed ratio, the more spread out over time the fatalities will be. And the more you lower the death rate, the less plausible it will be that people can't figure out the dead are coming back and take preventative measures. The more sudden and overwhelming the Zombie Infestation, the more plausible it is that preventative measures were too little, too late.

It's Apocalypse Math, don't blame me. =)

Edited August 14, 2015 by Morlock

[too-easy 56]

You skipped the first paragraph of my OP. So, I skipped the rest of your reply.

Wow.

Nice attitude.

You could have learned a lot from his posts here.

Come down from your high horse, sire.

[stinkenheim 249]

Let's assume that the area the game is set in is relatively poor, a lot of the populace would be eating food that was grown by them and their community as it would be cheaper to get.

With the civil war that happened shortly before dayz it's likely that most of these supplies were low in numbers either due to it being unsafe to farm or simply from existing loss of life.

Then the zeds start arriving, people are forced to use up what small stockpiles they have whilst waiting for evacuation.

Once the army or cdf arrive to evacuate the people those small stockpiles are left over, these are then raided by remaining militia from the civil war and along with weapons and ammo taken to the mountains where the militia are camped.

The game doesn't currently allow for us to access the mountains so we can't find these stockpiles, nor does it include people who have left either by land or sea taking their own supplies with them.

It wouldn't be an immediate end of civilisation as we know it, it would likely take weeks to get to the situation we have in game.

I hope the game never gets as abundant in resources as you seem to want, I couldn't give two hoots about supposed realism, I want the game to be challenging to play not one were I can eat a can of beans and be fine for a day in real time.

[Whyherro123 2283]

1) Yes, starvation takes weeks to kill you from starvation. However, something many people that bring out that old chestnut is that starvation has a general detrimental effect on the whole body. After 2 weeks or so without food:

-your immune system will be severely depressed, so you will be getting sick from every disease that you could get.

-likewise, any wounds you get will be getting infected, weakening you further

-again, any wounds you get will not be healing, as healing takes energy

- you will be lethargic and unable to respond to things at the same level

- you will be weak, with poor hand/eye coordination

-loss of eyesight functionality, hearing capability

-hallucinations

-etc

, so, it isn't just "I am REALLY fucking hungry, then -DEAD-". Your whole body, and all of its systems, degenerate when you starve

 

2) Relatedly, the above degenerations can happen due to lack of a balanced diet. Canned food is not something you want to be eating for a long time

 

3) "Bad" water can kill you faster than starvation, or any illness. Without power to move the pumps, most houses will lack clean water. And, I wouldn't want to be drinking from the municipal pumps, either. They, and the groundwater they draw from, stand a good chance of getting infected, either from bodies, unprocessed fecal material (no sewers, remember!), or just straight up nastiness (read about John Snow and the Broad Street pump http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow/snowcricketarticle.html)

 

4) Most municipal stores, like gas stations, grocery stores, etc, don't have weeks and months of stock on hand. They usually have a week or so, which leads to problems when they either lose power or can't get new stock in. You see it all the time when there is a hurricane/blizzard: people rush out to buy "necessities" (one way to facilitate the spread of disease!), and wipe the shelves bare. Or, with gas stations, they suck the tanks dry, and they don't get refilled. Not even touching the fact that the store employees probably aren't going in to work, what with an epidemic around and such. Stores aren't magical, they don't stock themselves

 

5) Let me in on a little secret: the wildlife population is kept in check by human pressure. Remove that control, or conversely, increase the human pressure, and the animal population can change very quickly. The best way to explain it is this: Imagine a world where every fuckhead that has a gun, or has easy access to one, like in South Zagoria, can go out and shoot a deer or rabbit for dinner, and there are no longer any legal controls on hunting. No restrictions, no hunting limits, nothing. They don't care about maintaining adequate levels of population, they "are hungry, and want to eat NOW". So, they go out and shoot the first deer they see: baby, juvenile, male, female, fuck em. The "smart" deer move to the deep mountains and forests, away from the humans, and the rest get killed. The humans, with lack of an easy food source, die out. The deer, with no hunting pressure on population, breed like rabbits. The population explodes, and strips the land clean of available food. The population gets culled by disease and starvation. This happens over and over again.

 

This is called "carrying capacity", and every time it waffles back and forth, the carrying capacity of a region gets lower, to the point where a species literally cannot live in a region due to lack of food. The carrying capacity can recover, over centuries, but the point remains.

 

Oh, and without industrialized agriculture and intercontinental shipping, humans are also affected by the carrying capacity of a region, rather intimately. This is where the "Secondary Kill" comes from, and this is why "organic" agriculture is unfeasible for the modern day, and why "hunter gatherers" had such small populations compared to early agriculturists: they had to manage their own populations to the land, not the land to their populations. Now, yes, "temperate deciduous forests", the ecosystem day Z takes place in, has an extremely high carrying capacity, but the fact remains that a whole lot of people would starve to death, at the same time as they cause ecological devastation. Pick all the wild foragables, kill all the animals, and raise crops in a field until the soil turns to dead dust, and the land won't support you. 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity

Edited August 14, 2015 by Whyherro123

[LoveAffair 329]

How do you know what happened or why the food and ammo is in short supply. Mabey the surrounding 8 towns came here and grabbed everything in sight. Another player that wants a shopping cart and a locked Walmart.

[jqp 9]

Wow.Nice attitude.You could have learned a lot from his posts here.Come down from your high horse, sire.

No. I'm not really interested in one-way communication. If somebody replies to my topic by ignoring it, I ignore their comments. Unless I'm in a mood to do otherwise for some reason.Plus he just came off like a childish ass, twice.

Let's assume that the area the game is set in is relatively poor, a lot of the populace would be eating food that was grown by them and their community as it would be cheaper to get.With the civil war that happened shortly before dayz it's likely that most of these supplies were low in numbers either due to it being unsafe to farm or simply from existing loss of life.Then the zeds start arriving, people are forced to use up what small stockpiles they have whilst waiting for evacuation.Once the army or cdf arrive to evacuate the people those small stockpiles are left over, these are then raided by remaining militia from the civil war and along with weapons and ammo taken to the mountains where the militia are camped.The game doesn't currently allow for us to access the mountains so we can't find these stockpiles, nor does it include people who have left either by land or sea taking their own supplies with them.It wouldn't be an immediate end of civilisation as we know it, it would likely take weeks to get to the situation we have in game.

First, there's still the wild game issue, which I keep mentioning, and people keep acting like I don't. :)Second, poor people tend to rely more on non-perishable food staples than rich people do. Canned goods, dry rice, these are cheap. All fresh ingredients, organic this or that, mostly a rich people thing. Luxury goods. In the developed world, anyway. Game isn't set in the 3rd world. Doesn't really matter, though. The numbers involved are so big, you can make a big dent in them and still not reduce the abundance enough to make a practical difference in game terms.I guess you could go with poverty handwavium, but it seems kinda unrealistic and uninspired to me.Why is there a civl war, again?Plus, there's still the game issue, which I keep saying, and people keep acting like I don't. :)And again, if the zedpocalypse doesn't strike suddenly, then we have to explain why it's really a zombie apocalypse; burning your dead (or whatever) doesn't seem like a big hurdle for advanced civilization. Hard to get a lot of deaths at once with starvation, which take weeks, with a highly variable duration. Feel like I've said this three times already, too. :D

I hope the game never gets as abundant in resources as you seem to want, I couldn't give two hoots about supposed realism, I want the game to be challenging to play not one were I can eat a can of beans and be fine for a day in real time.

Your straw man isn't very realistic. A can of beans a day is starvation. A sedentary adult usually needs something like 2000+ calories a day, a can of beans won't cut it. An active adult (say, running and walking all day, fighting, etc.) requires several times that number. 6-8k calories a day would seem a decent ball park estimate for a very active adult.

[jqp 9]

As for clean water, Chernarus is an island, no? Fresh water would be very easy to come by. You just go to the nearest beach, walk just into the dunes, and dig a hole down to the water line. If you get sea water, move further away from the beach and try again. Repeat until you hit fresh water. If you don't hit the water line, move closer to the beach and try again. Repeat until you hit fresh water. It's one of those "amazing facts" things that I barely understand, but is based on solid info AFAIK; there's supposedly always a gradient where the (fresh) water table hits the salt water table beneath beach sand. This means the fresh water is pushed upward near the beach, and is easy to access through the sand. Filter as normal, presto, plenty of water.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Morlock

[jqp 9]

5) Let me in on a little secret: the wildlife population is kept in check by human pressure. Remove that control, or conversely, increase the human pressure, and the animal population can change very quickly. The best way to explain it is this: Imagine a world where every fuckhead that has a gun, or has easy access to one, like in South Zagoria, can go out and shoot a deer or rabbit for dinner, and there are no longer any legal controls on hunting. No restrictions, no hunting limits, nothing. They don't care about maintaining adequate levels of population, they "are hungry, and want to eat NOW". So, they go out and shoot the first deer they see: baby, juvenile, male, female, fuck em. The "smart" deer move to the deep mountains and forests, away from the humans, and the rest get killed. The humans, with lack of an easy food source, die out. The deer, with no hunting pressure on population, breed like rabbits. The population explodes, and strips the land clean of available food. The population gets culled by disease and starvation. This happens over and over again.

Depending on species, of course. Given a few months or more, you'd start to see a rise in the predator populations, because these are among the species civilized man puts the most pressure on. Man hardly puts a dent in the squirrel population, I'd guess. In fact, man's culling of predators means squirrels (inter alia) probably benefit from the pressures man creates; the squirrel population would likely drop somewhat, if all their old predators suddenly came back.

 

but the fact remains that a whole lot of people would starve to death

You haven't demonstrated that at all.

 

Most municipal stores, like gas stations, grocery stores, etc, don't have weeks and months of stock on hand. They usually have a week or so, which leads to

You're still ignoring the thread and talking as if you're alone. I've been over this five times.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Morlock

[Whyherro123 2283]

As for clean water, Chernarus is an island, no? Fresh water would be very easy to come by. You just go to the nearest beach, walk just into the dunes, and dig a hole down to the water line. If you get sea water, move further away from the beach and try again. Repeat until you hit fresh water. If you don't hit the water line, move closer to the beach and try again. Repeat until you hit fresh water. It's one of those "amazing facts" things that I barely understand, but is based on solid info AFAIK; there's supposedly always a gradient where the (fresh) water table hits the salt water table beneath beach sand. The sand means the fresh water is pushed upward near the beach, and is easy to access through the sand. Filter as normal, presto, plenty of water.

No, Chernarus is not an island

 

 

And, yes, doing that in effect makes a filter. Said filter will remove the largest of "physical" contaminants, not any of the many chemicals or pollutants that are probably in the groundwater (hello, factories right next to the ocean!)

 

You still have to boil it, or run it through a filter with a smaller "screen", both of which are arduous, a serious pain-in-the-ass, and take a lot of time. Plus, of the civilian population of South Zagoria, who would really know how to do that?

 

And, no. Humans are a "keystone species". Our existence keeps the entirety of the ecosystem in check. With us out of the picture, the population of vermin like rats and insects explodes, eats EVERYTHING, and dies off. Same thing with the animals that prey on vermin, and so on and so forth.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Whyherro123

[jqp 9]

Okay, thanks, first time I saw that map. I must've seen maps from previous Arma type games.

In any event, there's lots of coastline.

[ZomboWTF 527]

I'm not saying all of this should be in the game. I'm not saying any of it should be in the game. I'm just pointing out the real-world consequences of a sudden die-off. What I have outlined above is far more realistic than starvation scenarios.

 

Nice addition, maybe you could start a small team to mod DayZ when modding resources and tools will be released, i personally like the "starvation survival" aspects, simply because atm the only threats are the environment and the players, zombies are really easy to deal with because of their limited number (i would offer my free time once this makes it into the community,i am a software developer trainee, but have no experience with the arma map editor)

 

However i think a little different on the matter: DayZ afaik plays a few months after the apocalypse, and regarding the supplies and canned foods in Chernarus, the supermarkets seem unproportionally small for the population who was there, and apartments are to a big part raided and have no TVs, beds or other furniture, which may indicate that Chernarus has been going "downhill" way before the actual apocalypse happened, and without a steady supply of trucks re-stocking supermarkets, food will become scarce fast

 

Also, once the apocalypse hit, i bet there was a major military effort to evacuate Chernarus, looking at how military vehicles and police cars are scattered all around the Region, and these clearly would have taken a LOT of the stashed supplies with them, god knows where they headed, which is also indicated by the lack of military vehicles and equipment at the actual military sites in Chernarus

 

however, this is all just specualation, nothing with a real base to work with, which is also why i am thrilled they will introduce modding the game later on^^

 

Nice read :)

 

No, Chernarus is not an island

 

 

this map is not picturing a real life place, the real place where chernarus was taken from is "usti nad labem,

which is also why the first iteration of the chernarus map had no ocean to the south

 

Usti nad Labem

 

For comparing the two: just look at the town Povrly, which very clearly shows the Elektro Sniping Hill

 

Also i guess we would see a lot of wolves and bears, since these wouldn't be kept in check anymore by local hunters, though wolves rarely attack humans, bears are extremely dangerous

Edited August 14, 2015 by Zombo

[jqp 9]

Nice addition, maybe you could start a small team to mod DayZ when modding resources and tools will be released, i personally like the "starvation survival" aspects, simply because atm the only threats are the environment and the players, zombies are really easy to deal with because of their limited number (i would offer my free time once this makes it into the community,i am a software developer trainee, but have no experience with the arma map editor)

Let me just say, I like the "scarcity" scenario too! I just think DayZ should strive not to be locked into it. Think different gameplay types, one for "dramatic scarcity," one for "realistic abundance," others for "whatever." Or settings to let admins tweak the "Apocalypse Assumptions" to their taste on their servers. I think putting some of these choices into the customer's hands is a really good idea.

Also, once the apocalypse hit, i bet there was a major military effort to evacuate Chernarus, looking at how military vehicles and police cars are scattered all around the Region, and these clearly would have taken a LOT of the stashed supplies with them, god knows where they headed, which is also indicated by the lack of military vehicles and equipment at the actual military sites in Chernarus

Seems like something that would need a pretty good explanation. I shouldn't think it's standard disaster relief policy to remove the food and other essential survival commodities from an area filled with refugees, the missing, etc. It'd be tantamount to starving the people you're trying to help, but happened to be unlucky enough to get left behind.

however, this is all just specualation, nothing with a real base to work with, which is also why i am thrilled they will introduce modding the game later on^^

Amen.And yes, I'm looking hard at modding this game. Depends on how extensive the mod tools are. I have no experience, but I'll learn, if the tools are powerful enough to make something I want to see.

Nice read :)

Thank you kindly. :)

[nl 986]

As for clean water, Chernarus is an island, no? Fresh water would be very easy to come by. You just go to the nearest beach, walk just into the dunes, and dig a hole down to the water line. If you get sea water, move further away from the beach and try again. Repeat until you hit fresh water. If you don't hit the water line, move closer to the beach and try again. Repeat until you hit fresh water. It's one of those "amazing facts" things that I barely understand, but is based on solid info AFAIK; there's supposedly always a gradient where the (fresh) water table hits the salt water table beneath beach sand. This means the fresh water is pushed upward near the beach, and is easy to access through the sand. Filter as normal, presto, plenty of water.

It's a solution to a problem that does not exist in Chernarus, there are fresh water pockets all over the place. Also water can still be brackish even if you can't taste it and may still pose a threat to your health. The proposed method is not ideal and you should, to be 100% sure, still have to desalinate the water one way or the other.

[jqp 9]

And, yes, doing that in effect makes a filter. Said filter will remove the largest of "physical" contaminants, not any of the many chemicals or pollutants that are probably in the groundwater (hello, factories right next to the ocean!)

Let's just say I think the contaminated groundwater everywhere thing seems kind of lurid and cheesy. The whole world's a big place to contaminate beyond redemption.

You still have to boil it, or run it through a filter with a smaller "screen", both of which are arduous, a serious pain-in-the-ass, and take a lot of time. Plus, of the civilian population of South Zagoria, who would really know how to do that?

Lol, no, purifying water in a typical portable filter isn't "arduous." It's standard backpacking practice, people do it as part of their entertainment.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

The setting doesn't have to be realistic for me. It can be pretty much whatever kind of apocalypse. Only the mechanics needs to have some realism for me. I just want to play a survival game that's hard/impossible to survive where meeting other survivor should be a god send. I don't care at all how much more there should be food and stuff around, unless there's just too much that it makes the game boring mess. I go for gameplay over "realism" with this topic.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Let's just say I think the contaminated groundwater everywhere thing seems kind of lurid and cheesy. The whole world's a big place to contaminate beyond redemption.

 

 

Lol, no, purifying water in a typical portable filter isn't "arduous." It's standard backpacking practice, people do it as part of their entertainment.

 

 

Filter enough water for drinking + washing + cleaning, every day. Now do it for 20 people.

 

You just can't do that with a backpacking filter. I know, I fucking ultralight, and teach a wilderness survival program.

 

Mass-treatment of water has been an issue during the entirety of human history, up until the last 150 years or so.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Whyherro123

[nl 986]

Filter enough water for drinking + washing + cleaning, every day. Now do it for 20 people.

 

You just can't do that with a backpacking filter. I know, I fucking ultralight, and teach a wilderness survival program.

 

Mass-treatment of water has been an issue during the entirety of human history, up until the last 150 years or so.

For cleaning and washing you don't need to filter the water. Just for drinking. A person will need between 2-3 liters per day (depending on conditions and activity and I can filter (with my Sawyer water filter) 1 liter of water in about 2 minutes, not taking collecting the water in account. So 20 x 3 =60 x 2 = 2 hours to filter the daily water need for 20 people. Doable I'd say and can even be done by the children while the adults go hunting, foraging, looting or whatever to bring calories to the table.

Edited August 14, 2015 by SAK

[Whyherro123 2283]

For cleaning and washing you don't need to filter the water. Just for drinking. A person will need between 2-3 liters per day (depending on conditions and activity and I can filter (with my Sawyer water filter) 1 liter of water in about 2 minutes, not taking collecting the water in account. So 20 x 3 =60 x 2 = 2 hours to filter the daily water need for 20 people. Doable I'd say and can even be done by the children while the adults go hunting, foraging, looting or whatever to bring calories to the table.

 

Sure, but do we have water filters in-game? 

 

Look at these problems through the eyes of the average Chernorussian survivor, instead of the American/European one. Until proven otherwise, they don't have access to high-grade lightweight filtration systems. Hell, South Zagoria doesn't even have a water treatment plant! Nor a wastewater treatment plant!

 

That means all of their wastewater is flowing into the ocean, but, before that, it is flowing down into the groundwater. All that agricultural runoff (fertilizers, pesticides, etc) [which explains why almost EVERY standing body of water in-game is CHOKED with algae), all that industrial runoff, all that roadway runoff (oil, gasoline, lubricants, etc), all of it is going into the water table and to the coast.

 

Fuck that. Boil + filter more than once. Or, collect rainwater. 

[nl 986]

Sure, but do we have water filters in-game? 

 

Look at these problems through the eyes of the average Chernorussian survivor, instead of the American/European one. Until proven otherwise, they don't have access to high-grade lightweight filtration systems. Hell, South Zagoria doesn't even have a water treatment plant! Nor a wastewater treatment plant!

 

That means all of their wastewater is flowing into the ocean, but, before that, it is flowing down into the groundwater. All that agricultural runoff (fertilizers, pesticides, etc) [which explains why almost EVERY standing body of water in-game is CHOKED with algae), all that industrial runoff, all that roadway runoff (oil, gasoline, lubricants, etc), all of it is going into the water table and to the coast.

 

Fuck that. Boil + filter more than once. Or, collect rainwater. 

Well I thought you were referencing a real life condition. We have water purification tablets and they are no longer found exclusively in med packs but in sheds and houses. So, within game reality, Chernarus apparently is not so "backward" that they didn't have any purification technology. Assuming there was a need for water purification and the general populous acknowledged this need and acted accordingly (hence the tablets that can be found) it's not such a stretch to assume people soon realized a good water filter would be more practical (and gives a less chemical taste). So considering that a single Sawyer waterfilter (the mini type) can filter up to 100,000 gallon (378,540 Litre) it would be feasible some people had them in Chernarus. So I think we should have them in the game, but they should be rare and considered a priced item!

Back to real life, consider that this small waterfilter could filter the daily water needs for 20 people for about 17 years, non stop! (well in theory anyway)

[Baker. 1484]

Hi, this is my first post. I apologize in advance for the length, and if I have in my ignorance misapprehended some aspect of DayZ, as I have not played the original mod, or the standalone alpha.

 

 

P.S., this comment is a great example of elevating the survival aspect over the realism aspect (out of all proportion, IMO):

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/227645-survey-worst-part-of-dayz/#entry2292995

 

 

It must be that we breathe the same fine Alberta air that I could recognize your hide in a tan yard.

[jqp 9]

The setting doesn't have to be realistic for me. It can be pretty much whatever kind of apocalypse. Only the mechanics needs to have some realism for me. I just want to play a survival game that's hard/impossible to survive where meeting other survivor should be a god send. I don't care at all how much more there should be food and stuff around, unless there's just too much that it makes the game boring mess. I go for gameplay over "realism" with this topic.

A perfectly reasonable position, as far as it goes; I still think supporting both play styles is superior.

You just can't do that with a backpacking filter. I know, I fucking ultralight, and teach a wilderness survival program.

I bet I can guess how you sell tickets. :) Hard sell, am i right?

Look at these problems through the eyes of the average Chernorussian survivor, instead of the American/European one. Until proven otherwise, they don't have access to high-grade lightweight filtration systems. Hell, South Zagoria doesn't even have a water treatment plant! Nor a wastewater treatment plant!

Sawyers are like $20.

Giant cooking pots aren't exactly rare, and boiling water in them isn't that big of a deal.

If you want to fall back on the "ass end of the Earth" and "backward post-Soviets" crutch constantly, I suppose it's doable.

ETA: on the other hand, NGOs tend to crawl all over the more backward spots on the planet, and love handing out stuff like cheap, durable water filters. Lifestraw was made for this purpose, IIRC.

It must be that we breathe the same fine Alberta air that I could recognize your hide in a tan yard.

I don't have a clue what that means, except to say no, I've never even been to Canada. :) Edited August 14, 2015 by Morlock

[derLoko 30]

Good topic!

 

In a Zombie Apocalypse, the population suddenly drops to one ten-thousandth (or so) of its previous size. [...] So, there are now enough durable goods and non-perishable food in settled areas to support the survivor population for a long time.

 

It doesn't have to be "sudden", tho. Let's look the following scenario:

 

1) An airborne virus is spreading real fast. 1 week of incubation time. Scientists realize too late what is happening.

2) 1 week of worldwide severe illness, only 1 out of 10K is immune. Infrastructre can't be maintained, food chain is breaking down, people are running out of food.

3) "Zombification" or death.

 

In this scenario, most food would be gone.

 

 

But you're right - everything else would still be there in abundance. There's thousands of cars / survivor now. No matter how much stuff some survivors may hoard, there's still shittons of stuff left for everyone. Having only a dozen or so vehicles on a server is imo way too unrealistic.

Edited August 14, 2015 by derLoko