Third person

[tandwan 250]

So, I am very aware that there is a patch coming in the future that will greatly limit the aspect of third person in this game and for that I am grateful. I wish there that there was more done to it, as I have tested and in fact I wish the entire aspect of third person was taken out of this game but if wishes were fishes. This thread is not a 'Look how much better I am thread!' or at least that's not what was intended, it's more of a hope I can convince people to try out something that they probably have a 'justified' reason for. I've got my reasoning as to why I do what I do and it's my hope that after reading this that maybe at least one other person will do it too.

 

With the upcoming .58 patch you will no longer be able to third person over most walls in the game due to the aspect being changed drastically. You can look around corners to a degree but you can't look over tall walls and such quite like you used to. For me, I applaud this because there are so many times where I grow tired of moving onto the NWAF or some other area of the game and having to assume constantly (and almost always be proven right) that someone is third person on the fire station on some wall, at some building... something. It greatly diminishes the enjoyment of this game knowing I have to remove some aspect so players can do something with game mechanics they normally shouldn't have access to. I am a big fan of people who stream first person, or shoot video in first person because I consider first person a cheat which in all honesty, that's what you're doing. SO many times I watch people stream / record this game and I immediately turn it to someone else because they're using third person and in truth I wonder who will be around when they completely remove it (if they completely remove it)

 

With the coming changes to third person I challenge the players of DayZ to stop using it until the next patch. Ween yourself off using the third person aspect because in truth you're going to lose it and your gear with the coming patch, why not start doing it now? With everything I say, I want to show you a few videos to try to dissuade you from coming to use this and gamma correction to play in the game. 

 

First vs Third-Person in Arma 3 (and DayZ)

 

 

DayZ SA - Hunting the hunters

 

He makes a much bigger argument then I do, and it is my hope that in the future out of the 2% of people who play this game and read these forums... at least 1 - 3 will change with the argument and start learning the game in a much more difficult environment. Thanks for reading, and good luck.

 

 

[cash81 506]

i'd just like to ask. what's the point of having different colour vests? or backpacks? or jackets? what's the point of wearing a gas mask or shades? what's the point of having so many varieties of clothing options when you'd never see any of the stuff you picked out for your char if you only ever played in 1pp? 

 

call me vain. but i like being able to see what my char is wearing. i actually care about how my jacket looks with my vest and pants. i really enjoy the army look, but also hunter cammo and all black is great as well. hell, i'm currently playing a guy who is in search of all winter gear to go with a gas mask and pilot helm. for me, my gear doesn't simply mean a way to avoid detection in the bush.

 

so if i would never get to see my stuff, what's the point of having so many different choices out there? so OTHERS can see my choice of clothing/gear?

 

the only time i 1pp is when im shooting my weapon. that is the only time i like not seeing my guy. i like being able to look down the iron sights or scope to feel like im actually firing the gun. apart from that, i would rather see as much of my char as possible. 

 

but like you said, if the new camera removes wall peeking then that's all good. although the whole point of "unfair advantage" is that one party has access while the others don't, is clearly fixed by playing in 1pp only servers where nobody on the server can do any peeking of any kind.

Edited July 18, 2015 by cash81

[tandwan 250]

i'd just like to ask. what's the point of having different colour vests? or backpacks? or jackets? what's the point of wearing a gas mask or shades? what's the point of having so many varieties of clothing options when you'd never see any of the stuff you picked out for your char if you only ever played in 1pp? 

 

I'm sorry, this doesn't seem like a good argument for why to have third person over first person. You can just as easily hit tab and see what your character looks like at any given time of running around. Hell, you can even log out and spin your character around on the login screen all day long if this is your thing to do in game. And yes, I could just play constantly on a first person server however they die, fast, at certain times of the day. The population on first person servers goes to a crawl when I play and sadly I know this is because people just are so weened to third person they can't stand not having that edge.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Tandwan

[gibonez 3633]

i'd just like to ask. what's the point of having different colour vests? or backpacks? or jackets? what's the point of wearing a gas mask or shades? what's the point of having so many varieties of clothing options when you'd never see any of the stuff you picked out for your char if you only ever played in 1pp? 

 

 

Realism.

 

Those things exist in real life in various colors and varieties thus they must represented in game in the same manner.

 

Not to mention they all have various protective values and attributes.

 

Having variety in the clothing does not validate third person view....

[-Gews- 7443]

i'd just like to ask. what's the point of having different colour vests? or backpacks? or jackets? what's the point of wearing a gas mask or shades? what's the point of having so many varieties of clothing options when you'd never see any of the stuff you picked out for your char if you only ever played in 1pp? 

 

Well, I for one see it all the time in my inventory screen. And I do pay attention to fashion in the apocalypse despite not having another outside view of my character.

[tandwan 250]

Well, I for one see it all the time in my inventory screen. And I do pay attention to fashion in the apocalypse despite not having another outside view of my character.

 

This, right here. Not having third person does not keep me from actually worrying if my character is going to stand out like a sore thumb if I wear a pink raincoat or not. I actually go to fairly deep lengths to ensure my characters 'color' looks natural to the surroundings I am in. Checking to see if colors clash or not look natural and seeing if they stand out fairly strongly depending on my environment are a massive factor when I play on a first person server because I can't just slap the numpad enter key to see if those leaves disguise me as a bush or not. 

[scriptfactory 620]

Its ridiculous how often these threads are made and posted in by the same people. Please stop making new topics and just in one of the existing ones.

[tandwan 250]

Please link to me where I have ever posted an argument over third person servers vs first person in a thread created by me. I challenge you to do so because I know you will not find one. Search feature is your friend and if you use it for me you will find the only thread I have posted was in regards to locking variables such as gamma, steam requests and FoV.

[grimlok 77]

Its ridiculous how often these threads are made and posted in by the same people. Please stop making new topics and just in one of the existing ones.

If you bothered to read the OP's post, it was stated about getting people to join 1pp, not 1pp is better.  Think before speaking(typing)

[tandwan 250]

Apparently, I can't read and for that I apologize 

Edited July 18, 2015 by Tandwan

[pale1776 375]

I like 1pp, I use it in cities and in combat. It's a trick O picked up in ArmA during city seiges. I can shoot accurately from the hip better than I can in 3pp, and its faster than aiming the sights while in 3pp.

However, I use 3pp when I'm not expecting combat or are setting up my camp- which involves cooking. I like seeing myself to cure the boredom that comes from isolation. Personally I like the new 3pp better, I even made a suggestion thread several times about a camera perspective like The Last Of Us because I like that style of 3pp better.

My suggestion is that 3pp is disabled when in combat. I play on a hardcore Mod server where when your in combat from an infected or player it locks youbto first person.

As a side note, why do people complain about 3pp cheaters when they can simply join a 1pp only server? And why call it superior when there's like 20 people on all the 1pp servers put together?

So you call 3pp cheating and say that 1pp is superior- but you continue to play on 3pp servers and complain that the "superior" 1pp servers are empty? Wut?

Not directed at the OP, just at people in general. If 1pp was better than your precious 1pp servers would be full and you wouldn't constantly bitch about those terrible 3pp servers that you insist on playing on.

[tandwan 250]

As a side note, why do people complain about 3pp cheaters when they can simply join a 1pp only server? And why call it superior when there's like 20 people on all the 1pp servers put together?

So you call 3pp cheating and say that 1pp is superior- but you continue to play on 3pp servers and complain that the "superior" 1pp servers are empty? Wut?

Not directed at the OP, just at people in general. If 1pp was better than your precious 1pp servers would be full and you wouldn't constantly bitch about those terrible 3pp servers that you insist on playing on.

 

A good question and one that I will answer. I love DayZ and unfortunately it comes to a point where I am forced to play on a 3pp server because I like interaction with players as much as I like 1pp. Unfortunately at certain times of the day the servers become completely empty and I won't avoid the reasoning behind this either, it's easier. People would rather play on a 3pp server not because it's much more fun, they play there because 3pp makes it easier. In my honest opinion that answer can't be denied because you can't say it's not fun on 1pp servers because it's the same game. There's absolutely no difference in game-play between a first person or a third person server as nothing has changed but perspective. Granted I won't deny there are people who enjoy watching their character wander around and loot things or maybe hold a gun in a certain way but I just can't avoid the truth : Third person servers give a person that first person does not, third person perspective. Now I won't drag that particular horse out of the shed and commence to hammering on it with my stick, to each their own, if you want to do 1pp or 3pp then enjoy the game how you want. However I won't give anything other then a justified reasoning behind why 1person servers are empty. People enjoy having the advantage of being able to third person over walls and such over having to rely on first person. Otherwise we get answers like the second person in this thread, I like third person because my character needs to be pretty in a zombie apocalypse.

[grimlok 77]

A good question and one that I will answer. I love DayZ and unfortunately it comes to a point where I am forced to play on a 3pp server because I like interaction with players as much as I like 1pp. Unfortunately at certain times of the day the servers become completely empty and I won't avoid the reasoning behind this either, it's easier. People would rather play on a 3pp server not because it's much more fun, they play there because 3pp makes it easier. In my honest opinion that answer can't be denied because you can't say it's not fun on 1pp servers because it's the same game. There's absolutely no difference in game-play between a first person or a third person server as nothing has changed but perspective. Granted I won't deny there are people who enjoy watching their character wander around and loot things or maybe hold a gun in a certain way but I just can't avoid the truth : Third person servers give a person that first person does not, third person perspective. Now I won't drag that particular horse out of the shed and commence to hammering on it with my stick, to each their own, if you want to do 1pp or 3pp then enjoy the game how you want. However I won't give anything other then a justified reasoning behind why 1person servers are empty. People enjoy having the advantage of being able to third person over walls and such over having to rely on first person. Otherwise we get answers like the second person in this thread, I like third person because my character needs to be pretty in a zombie apocalypse.

A lot of people are also not playing on 1pp due to performance.  Apparently performance is better on 3pp but before my GPU died I never noticed a difference and I think people are just using it as an excuse.  What the 3pp advocates can't comprehend is that there are those who want to play 1pp but don't due to population.  Why are 3pp more popular?  Who knows.  We can all speculate and give out reason of why we "think" 3pp is more popular(wall peeking).  At the end of the day, there is nothing you can do or say that will change people over to 1pp.

[tandwan 250]

Touche, and as to the 1st to 3rd performance? I personally have never seen a difference. I seem to get the same chops and such on both servers and have to log out after a long game-play due to the same reasons.

[kimmaz 63]

Why should everyone use first person just cause you like it? I myself only use 1st person, but its not a problem that someone else play in 3rd person. i mean what is the big deal? is it unfair? Nah,, you can see much longer in 1st person, and you get a better field of view. try killing someone at 400m in 3rd person.. lol.. Stop complaining about how others play the game, 

 

is it cause it may be unfair in pvp that someone can look over walls and you cant? if so, try playing smarter. why would you hide behind something someone can look over? haha

[grimlok 77]

Why should everyone use first person just cause you like it? I myself only use 1st person, but its not a problem that someone else play in 3rd person. i mean what is the big deal? is it unfair? Nah,, you can see much longer in 1st person, and you get a better field of view. try killing someone at 400m in 3rd person.. lol.. Stop complaining about how others play the game, 

 

is it cause it may be unfair in pvp that someone can look over walls and you cant? if so, try playing smarter. why would you hide behind something someone can look over? haha

:facepalm:

[scriptfactory 620]

If you bothered to read the OP's post, it was stated about getting people to join 1pp, not 1pp is better.  Think before speaking(typing)

 

I did read it. The crux of the article boils down to, "not enough people play 1PP, please people play 1PP because it is better, look at these videos that have been posted hundreds of times." Again, we have had this topic over and over again. Just bump an existing topic.

Edited July 18, 2015 by scriptfactory

[yusi 6]

I'd like to know where the op got the idea that 3pp was getting removed. Only time I saw it answered was when someone asked Hicks on twitter if 1pp could be mandatory through 1 patch, to which Hicks asked him to stop forcing his playstyle upon others (which I highly agree with)

[doctorbadsign 645]

Christ, how many times are we going to have this argument...

[roguetrooper 201]

Suggestion in my signature (again)...

[Etherimp 1323]

OP, 3rd person on 3rd person servers is not a "cheat"... If you don't want to use 3pp, don't use it.. Go play on Hardcore servers. Go on.. Nobody is stopping you.

 

 

...What's that you say? 1st person servers are always empty?

Aww shucks.. Now you know why people play on 3pp servers. Because hardcore's always empty/low pop...because people prefer 3pp, because 1pp in DayZ is shit, for several reasons:

 

1. Inconsistent/low FPS

 

2. Low FPS results in jumpy mouse response.. (With high fps mouse speed will be fine, and smooth.. when FPS cuts down, mouse movement becomes jittery) This effect is worse in 1pp.

 

3. Visual clutter. In most FPS's (Say, CSGO), everything is clean and models/players "stand out" from the environment.. In DayZ, you can see 1000 meters away, and there's SO much to take in that the wider perspective 3pp offers allows your mind to pick out movement/color change easier, which makes getting your bearings easier. In 1pp, it's easy to lose your sense of direction because it's easier to lose visual "markers"

 

4. Small buildings/entrances/doorways, short cielings, clutter in rooms/buildings/environment.. Stuff that basically forces you to get stuck/be unable to move fluidly.. All of this is prevented/helped with 3pp, where you can see your surroundings better and see what your feet are doing.

 

5. Laying in trees/bushes/on a hill.. In 1pp it's very difficult for you to get a sense of how hard you are for others to see or how well hidden you are.. in 3rd person, you can see your surroundings better so you know how your body is fitting into those surroundings.

 

6. Driving vehicles in 1pp is just downright retarded.. nuff said. 

 

The above list is VALID and FACTUAL reasons why 3pp is more "playable/user friendly".. This is not a matter of OPINION.. These are facts. It's not that you're "Better".. It's not a matter of "getting used to it".. Yeah, I could "get used" to all of those things, but only by intentionally making my gaming experience in DayZ categorically "worse" than it is on 3pp servers. I play other FPS games fine without 3pp. Battlefield, CSGO, Insurgency, you name it... Because those games were designed around being FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS.. DayZ is .. not really.

 

I'm so sick of 1pp elitism. Please just stop. Don't make any more threads like this and stop arguing this topic. People play what they like, and what makes them comfortable. 

[frosti 2165]

3pp is necessary evil.

[tandwan 250]

The above list is VALID and FACTUAL reasons why 3pp is more "playable/user friendly"..

 

So I read over this list and I have to say, L O L

 

I mean, so much of this 'super list of things that are fact' is so biased and ignorant I just.... let me start here.

 

 

 

 

1. Inconsistent/low FPS

 

It has never been proven with any testing at all that can be found anywhere on the internet that first person servers get worse FPS then a third person server. If in fact this was true then I am sure someone would have posted it in the bugs section of this forum, I won't insult your intelligence in how to get there and look for yourself but I will save you the time. There's no such thread because First person vs. Third person has no bases on FPS.

 

2. Low FPS results in jumpy mouse response..

 

FPS has nothing to do with perspective, see above. Your FPS is directly based off of your PC which causes mouse stutter and bad frames. Basing your FPS on if you're on a first or third person server is completely ignorant and even more ignorant to think changing perspective makes your game play worse. Let's think about this for a moment in the form of a scenario. You are in Berezino and getting 60 FPS, someone shoots at you and you switch to first person, your FPS stays 60 frames per second. It doesn't magically drop simply because you changed perspectives. I could record this and give you an example but I won't waste my time.

 

3. Visual clutter. In most FPS's (Say, CSGO), everything is clean and models/players "stand out" from the environment.. In DayZ, you can see 1000 meters away, and there's SO much to take in that the wider perspective 3pp offers allows your mind to pick out movement/color change easier, which makes getting your bearings easier. In 1pp, it's easy to lose your sense of direction because it's easier to lose visual "markers"

 

This... is again dumb. How do you suddenly lose visual markers because you move out of third person? I mean, this makes no sense. Do the hills and trees and things get up and run off because you changed perspective and secretly snicker at you from behind some other hill due to your misfortune? Third person only moves your perspective farther back behind your character and in some cases gives you vision over obstacles that you normally wouldn't have. Furthermore, comparing this game to CS:GO is a bit awkward don't you think? A competitive shooter vs a survival based fps? There's no clutter in CS:GO compared to DayZ because they are completely different genera. Moving on..

 

4. Small buildings/entrances/doorways, short cielings, clutter in rooms/buildings/environment.. Stuff that basically forces you to get stuck/be unable to move fluidly.. All of this is prevented/helped with 3pp, where you can see your surroundings better and see what your feet are doing.

 

The clutter and space does not change because you change perspective. Nothing changes other then you have vision directly out of your characters eyes. The tables and chairs don't move towards you or get closer and doors don't stop you from entering. Furthermore, the only time I have ever experienced getting stuck in a door was back in older builds of this game. Moving on...

 

5. Laying in trees/bushes/on a hill.. In 1pp it's very difficult for you to get a sense of how hard you are for others to see or how well hidden you are.. in 3rd person, you can see your surroundings better so you know how your body is fitting into those surroundings.

 

Then.... don't hide in a bush? Seriously, if you can't judge if a bush / tree / whatever hides you then there's other problems with your game-play other then the server you play on. Judging if you're in cover is a FPS basic tool and simply requires you to learn a little bit before jumping into a bush and wondering if it covers you.

 

6. Driving vehicles in 1pp is just downright retarded.. nuff said. 

 

Stupid argument. NUFF SAID. That didn't win you any argument because driving in first person isn't difficult at all. So you've never played any game where you had to drive in first person? Were they all stupid? If yes, then see above, it's not DayZ that's the problem it's your visual awareness.

 

 I play other FPS games fine without 3pp. Battlefield, CSGO, Insurgency, you name it... Because those games were designed around being FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS.. DayZ is .. not really.

 

DayZ is a game based off Arma, which is a tactical FPS. Saying that Arma of all games is not as good a FPS as a run and gun shooter is a bit silly. The entire argument you made was totally biased with no proof whatsoever. The only thing I said about third person servers is the fact I feel that third person is a bit of a cheat because it gives you vision you normally would not have. I have never claimed to be better then anyone else in DayZ nor will I ever do so. I will stand by my previous words : People play on third person servers because they are generally easier as third person is a crutch. You don't have to like the statement as it's my opinion, much like your entire post above mine.  I think you should take your own advice here, stop arguing this topic because the your 'opinion' is not 'fact'.

[stinkenheim 249]

Meh. I play on both and enjoy both for different reasons- 1pp feels more tense to me but in 3pp I can actually see out of the windows in buildings without feeling like a child that needs to stand on tip toes to see over the window ledge.

A lot of the assets in game feel wrongly sized in 1pp, something which is mitigated to an extent in 3pp.

 

I also know people who feel sick when playing solely in 1pp, especially during long runs so they prefer 3pp. I personally don't like how the camera moves when you are running and looking around in 1pp (I have head bob and all that jazz turned off) and have only noticed this change over the last few patches.

[tandwan 250]

3pp is necessary evil.

 

I don't feel that's true. A necessary evil for game-play? Again, the argument that you need first person because you don't have that peripheral vision normally granted by eyesight could be said for any game at all, however it doesn't. However, I will agree that without third person servers, DayZ would have a much smaller player base then it currently has.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Tandwan