Civilian semi-auto rifles

[HomerJay27 69]

For all you lazy people who won't read the whole post, this post is about the Ruger Mini-14 and Veper 5.45

 

 

Introduction

 

I will refer alot in this post to what Chris Torchia wrote in the 23 Jun 2015 status report about guns in DayZ, so please read it first.

 

So like the title says I would like to see at least one or two semi-auto civilian rifles more in the game. Currently there are only the SKS and Sporter .22 in this category. But if one takes the two sawn-off versions into account there are nine bolt action, single or double barrel rifles, which i think offers plenty of variety with single shot rifles.

 

Now Chirs mentions several semi-auto rifles in the status report (various civilian  AR15s, AR10s, AKs, tiger Rifles, SVT40s etc.), which are fine if you argue from a realism standpoint, but I think all of the examples mentioned above are problematic for gameplay.

 

The two main points are:

 

• I think we can all agree that semi-auto .308 or 7.62x54r rifles should be verry rare and not spawn on the coast (like the SVD), but don't make much sense to spawn in military loctions either, so civilian AR10s, M1As,  SVT40s and Tiger rifles can be canceled.

 

• Further more, if civilian AR15s or AKs would spawn in towns, mags for these guns also need to spawn there. The problem is that these mags are the same ones which the military versions of these rifles  use. So if a decent amount of these mags are spawning in civilian areas, mags for assault rifles would be way to common. On the other hand, if the mags are rare nobody would bother searching for them and the guns would hardly be used or swapped out for the millitary verison as soon as you find it. This contradicts the Status report, where Chris says that  the "expansion of the weapon set should occur with minimum expansion of calibers and attachments" but I think It would benefit the game if mags in this instance are an exception.

 

 

Now that the introduction is out of the way and you understand my position I come to the fun part. Like I mentiond in the begining 

I sugesst the Ruger Mini-14 and Vepr 5.45, because they don't bringsaid problems with them. 

They both fire intermediate calibers (5.56 and 5.45) and both use their own mags which aren't compatible with M4 or AK74.

 

Lets look into the guns in a little bit more detail:

 

Mini-14

 

 

 

 

As you see there are many different stock options form classic wood to simple black polymer to a tacticool version with collapsible stock and pistol grip. I myself prefere the  "All weather ranch rifle", just because of its stainles parts and the fact that there are plenty of wooden stock rifles in the game. The ranch rifle would also allow the hunting scope as an attachement, wich I favor over the M4 optics wich would fit on the tactical Mini-14. In terms of mags, ther are 10, 20 and 30rnd ones availible. IMO the 20rnd mags (like in the pic above) would fit best into the game because 10rnd mags would be rather unsatisfactory to search when you consider that the SKS can hold 10 more powerfull rounds without a mag. The 30rnd mag on the other hand might be a little bit OP. One minor point which I want to address too, is that basically the iron sights of all russian and civilian guns are notch sights that look very similar. The Mini-14 would bring some diversity into the sight pictures of DayZ rifles.

 

 

Since the Mini-10 is around since the 70s and there is already a Ruger rifle in game (Sporter .22 aka Ruger 10/22) I dont see any objection why this rifle shouldn't be in game.

 

 

Vepr 5.45

 

The Vepr would be an alternative for the " only russian guns" folks. It is based on a modified RPK reciver and is a AK style hunting/sporting rifle.(There are also versions of this gun in .308 and 7.62x54r but i won't pay any attentions to these.)

It looks really cool but has several disatvantages compared to the Mini-14. At first it only has a russian sidemount for the attachment of optics which is kind of the same proble as with the AK mags mentioned  before. Then there are only 5 and 10 rnd mags available which agian would be unsatisfactory to search.The Vepr can however be modified relatively easy to use AK74 mags wich could be a gameplay element.

 

 

Conclusion

 

These two guns would be great additions two the game and complete the class of intermediate caliber semi-auto civillian rifles with the more powerfull but lower capacity SKS which can oneshot players and zombies in some circumstaces on the one side of the spectrum, the less powerfull Vepr with the possibility for a 30rnd mag on the other and the Mini-14 in the middle. 

 

What do you gus think?

Edited July 7, 2015 by HomerJay27

[OnionOfShame 138]

Beeeeeans

I agree with you, semi-automatic mid-long range rifles tend to be my favorite and I think that they are in desperate need of expansion in DayZ. Right now there is basically just the SKS for that purpose (let's be honest, the Sporter is a whole different type of weapon). The Mini-14 and Vepr 5.45 could fit this role really well, use ammunition not often used otherwise (right now the 5.45 ammo is just used for the AK74 variants and 5.56 is just used for automatics), and look badass on top of all that.

[klesh 2423]

Mini 14 is a great gun, step-grandpa had the Rach Rifle version.  We would plink with it up in NH.  Lots of fun, would be great to have in the game.

 

More civilian, less military in general would be good.

[star-lord252 83]

Both look good both can make sence but why would any 7.62×54r semi auto rifles and .308 semi autos not spawn in the coast all they have to do is put the magazines to being very rare. None are used by the military except the SVD it just needs to be rare but not to rare like m4 rare now.

[gannon46 788]

what about the AR-15 i would love to see that introduced hell the mods for the M4 would work as well. maybe other things they could do with that rifle like finding drop in sears to make it full auto or the selector switch combined with the drop in sear could mean you would have full auto 3 rnd burst and semi auto.  so many things they could do with that rifle as well as the mini-14 you suggested. and it being civilan you should find it not a heli crashes but make it uncommon in houses. and about mags i don't see an issue witht hem sapwning they just need to make the civilian mags be 10 rnds or 15 rnd i mean why is it OK to find a 74 rnd drum for an AK at a barrack yet wouldn't be ok to find a 10-15 rnd AR-mag in a house. hell you can find 10rnd sks stripper clips in houses yet no one complains bout those so again i don't see the issue with the mags.

Edited July 7, 2015 by gannon46

[Chaingunfighter 917]

• I think we can all agree that semi-auto .308 or 7.62x54r rifles should be verry rare and not spawn on the coast (like the SVD), but don't make much sense to spawn in military loctions either, so civilian AR10s, M1As,  SVT40s and Tiger rifles can be canceled.

 

• Further more, if civilian AR15s or AKs would spawn in towns, mags for these guns also need to spawn there. The problem is that these mags are the same ones which the military versions of these rifles  use. So if a decent amount of these mags are spawning in civilian areas, mags for assault rifles would be way to common. On the other hand, if the mags are rare nobody would bother searching for them and the guns would hardly be used or swapped out for the millitary verison as soon as you find it. This contradicts the Status report, where Chris says that  the "expansion of the weapon set should occur with minimum expansion of calibers and attachments" but I think It would benefit the game if mags in this instance are an exception.

I love the idea of the Mini-14 and Vepr-545, both would be some great semi-autos.

 

However, high-caliber semi-autos would not be as unbalanced as you'd think; obviously out of of necessity and realism they're going to be rarer but that's sensible. An SVT-40 would be less common than an SKS or Mosin IRL anyway because it was produced to a significantly smaller capacity, albeit still on a mass scale. Discard the M1A and AR-10 because M14s and SR-25s and whatnot could just be added in their military counterparts.

 

SVT-40s use 10 round magazines and are only capable of doing such. Many of the other civilian weapons that hover around that capacity (SKS, Repeater, etc.) are all clip or tube-fed and only need handloaded ammunition, whereas if you want to do anything but chamber rounds in the SVT you have to have the mag. Additionally, it is pretty much limited to the PU scope and possibly a bayonet where attachments are concerned, so it's no better than the SKS. In the end it's only slightly better than the SKS if you have a magazine, but because you'd have to find them separately it might not always be worth the time to try and find one over just going north.

[HomerJay27 69]

SVT-40s use 10 round magazines and are only capable of doing such. Many of the other civilian weapons that hover around that capacity (SKS, Repeater, etc.) are all clip or tube-fed and only need handloaded ammunition, whereas if you want to do anything but chamber rounds in the SVT you have to have the mag. Additionally, it is pretty much limited to the PU scope and possibly a bayonet where attachments are concerned, so it's no better than the SKS. In the end it's only slightly better than the SKS if you have a magazine, but because you'd have to find them separately it might not always be worth the time to try and find one over just going north.

 

The reason i think something like a SVT would be OP is because i have been using the mosin with PU for sinping lately and it's a beast up to 400m. The last time I killed more than a dozen people from the top of tripple yellow. The only limiting factors were that i only had 20 rounds when I started and missed a couple of moving targets. But most of the targets I killed( not just unconscious) with one hit. Imagine what a massacer it would have been if I had a SVT 40.

 

The lesson learned here is: don't underestimate 7.52x54r rifles with PU scope just because the winchester with its fancy hunting scope are in game. I actually get more one shot sniping kills with the mosin than with the winchester in 0.57. 

 

Unfortunately i havn't found a SVD yet, but I have seen many vids in which the SVD dominates AKs and MP5s even in CQB.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

The reason i think something like a SVT would be OP is because i have been using the mosin with PU for sinping lately and it's a beast up to 400m. The last time I killed more than a dozen people from the top of tripple yellow. The only limiting factors were that i only had 20 rounds when I started and missed a couple of moving targets. But most of the targets I killed( not just unconscious) with one hit. Imagine what a massacer it would have been if I had a SVT 40.

 

The lesson learned here is: don't underestimate 7.52x54r rifles with PU scope just because the winchester with its fancy hunting scope are in game. I actually get more one shot sniping kills with the mosin than with the winchester in 0.57. 

 

Unfortunately i havn't found a SVD yet, but I have seen many vids in which the SVD dominates AKs and MP5s even in CQB.

The SVT has slow semi-automatic fire, it's not impressive by any means and you probably wouldn't be able to spam shots with it like you can the SVD. Also, I still think the Mosin would be far more viable in many cases because it's a clip/hand loaded gun, so all you need is the rifle and rounds and you're good to go. In order for the SVT to be any useful you have to find the magazine and to many people civilian guns are only utilized on the way to gearing up better, so considering as rare as the SVT and all of its stuff would be you'd be hard pressed to find it being used all the time.

 

Pretty much any gun that one hit kills is going to be super effective in close quarters combat if you're able to land a shot; the thing is anyone experienced in CQB in DayZ knows how to avoid giving you the chance. The SVT would definitely be a great weapon but not overpowered.

 

What I would have a problem with is something like the PPSh-41 being made as a civilian weapon, because 7.62x25mm Tokarev rounds in a 71rnd drum out at 1000 RPM would be devastating. I'm perfectly fine with the weapon being added but if anything they need to add rebel caches or just suck it up and make it a military weapon because that thing would destroy.

 

 

Then again I'm more for guns being 'balanced' by rarity and how they spawn but performing as closely as possible to their real life counterparts. The SVT would just be among the rarest of civilian weapons, and that's perfectly appropriate, but I don't see its obvious potential as making it worthy of not being added.

[atempleton 123]

I would rather an AR15 over the Mini 14. More common, and can share parts with the M4. Make it spawn with 10 or 20 round magazines in civilian buildings, and larger magazines reserved for chopper crashes, with 5.56 spawning both civilian and military locations.

[rybec 339]

• I think we can all agree that semi-auto .308 or 7.62x54r rifles should be verry rare and not spawn on the coast (like the SVD), but don't make much sense to spawn in military loctions either, so civilian AR10s, M1As,  SVT40s and Tiger rifles can be canceled.

Opinion discarded.

 

With a serious tone though, the rifles should not be tailored to balance.

In reality, most of your "civilian" rifles are not intermediate either.

 

Go ask someone who has rifles for hunting and not just for fun and he'll tell you he has .243 (intermediate), 7mm, 300win, .308, 30-06...

If someone's solely hunting small or medium game they'll have something intermediate, but full sized calibers are much more common.

[Rags! 1966]

Meanwhile, the ever-useless CZ Carbine continues to gather dust...

[gibonez 3633]

I would rather an AR15 over the Mini 14. More common, and can share parts with the M4. Make it spawn with 10 or 20 round magazines in civilian buildings, and larger magazines reserved for chopper crashes, with 5.56 spawning both civilian and military locations.

 

Neither of which would be common in Eastern Europe.

 

Heck the Mini 14 is not common in the US. It had some popularity in the early 90s but that was limited.

[atempleton 123]

A Ruger 10/22 or a Model 70 isn't common in East Europe either.

[pale1776 375]

Personally they need to add in more CZ weapons, they make both military and hunting rifles.

And this is a game, Im sure having an M1A or whatever isnt as immersion killing as seeing that the only survivors are 13 year olds who shoot you on sight and tell you about how your gay and they're gonna bamg your mom -_-

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Neither of which would be common in Eastern Europe.

 

Heck the Mini 14 is not common in the US. It had some popularity in the early 90s but that was limited.

AR-15s are not a bad choice for civilian semi-autos in any case. There are factories even in Russia that manufacture semi-auto AR-15s, and pretty much every country in East Europe has some derivative in service (Russian Alpha-Vympel Spetsnaz have been seen with M4 Carbines.) The real problem with them would be gameplay issues that come with it sharing ammo, mags, and attachments with the M4A1 and other military derivatives, which could be problematic in the long run. But, of course, they could also just use an old CAR-15 Sporter without a rail and thin handguard and have only the 10 and 20 round magpul rounds spawn, which would give a realistic use to them (since no military force issues those) and also keep it reasonable for a civilian tier weapon versus the M4A1.

 

Mini-14s are really easy to get in the US and looking on Czech Websites there are quite a few around that region as well. It's a classic and iconic alternative to having to add an AR to the game - not the most realistic but certainly a civvie weapon. And, of course, they can add the Mini-30 in 7.62x39mm, which would make sense as well.

 

 

Personally they need to add in more CZ weapons, they make both military and hunting rifles.

And this is a game, Im sure having an M1A or whatever isnt as immersion killing as seeing that the only survivors are 13 year olds who shoot you on sight and tell you about how your gay and they're gonna bamg your mom -_-

 

I can't see any case that an M14 or M1A derivative would not be a military spawn, though. Even if they went for an original wooden styled one (not the more realistic MK14 or M39 EMR) and made it semi-auto only it'd probably be a NATO weapon just because it's a high-capacity battle rifle. If civvie spawns are going to have high-caliber guns on them, then the most that'd really be good to see would be semi-autos like the SVT-40 or M1 Garand, but if it gets to the point where you can loot a barn and find a 20 round battle rifle it might not be great.

 

Of course they do have the ability to control individual buildings now so we may after all get our wishes of "guerrilla caches" where older military weapons that don't make sense in either regular civvie houses or military bases do (i.e. the PPSh-41)

Edited July 11, 2015 by Chaingunfighter

[-Gews- 7443]

AR-15s are not a bad choice for civilian semi-autos in any case. There are factories even in Russia that manufacture semi-auto AR-15s, and pretty much every country in East Europe has some derivative in service (Russian Alpha-Vympel Spetsnaz have been seen with M4 Carbines.)

They could just take the M4 model, extend the barrel 1.5 inches and call it done, but I think players would be irritated such a weapon didn't look different enough.

 

I can't see any case that an M14 or M1A derivative would not be a military spawn, though. Even if they went for an original wooden styled one (not the more realistic MK14 or M39 EMR) and made it semi-auto only it'd probably be a NATO weapon just because it's a high-capacity battle rifle. If civvie spawns are going to have high-caliber guns on them, then the most that'd really be good to see would be semi-autos like the SVT-40 or M1 Garand, but if it gets to the point where you can loot a barn and find a 20 round battle rifle it might not be great.

They could just put a Norinco M305 and spawn 5-rd magazines and the odd 20-rd in civilian areas.

I don't see why the 30-round .223 "assault weapons" should be a civilian spawn yet the 20-round "classic" .308 they replaced should only be military. Gameplay-wise it makes sense due to the current hitpoint damage system but that's not the way it should be. Similar reason we won't see Tigr carbine or, most likely, hunting rifles spawning with scopes attached as makes sense.

As for the M39 it is being replaced with the M110 since 2010, so it doesn't make sense having M39 but not M110. "Why not both?" but since they perform the same function making one redundant I'd much rather have the latter. Or similar, HK417, depends on backstory, country of origin. I think a lot of people want M14 just because M14.

Personally I want at least one autoloading hunting rifle, and the same for shotguns. Browning BAR. Benelli R1. Verney Carron Impact. Etc. Such guns, always overlooked, probably the reason being they have little representation in popular media.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

They could just take the M4 model, extend the barrel 1.5 inches and call it done, but I think players would be irritated such a weapon didn't look different enough.

 

They could just put a Norinco M305 and spawn 5-rd magazines and the odd 20-rd in civilian areas.

I don't see why the 30-round .223 "assault weapons" should be a civilian spawn yet the 20-round "classic" .308 they replaced should only be military. Gameplay-wise it makes sense due to the current hitpoint damage system but that's not the way it should be. Similar reason we won't see Tigr carbine or, most likely, hunting rifles spawning with scopes attached as makes sense.

As for the M39 it is being replaced with the M110 since 2010, so it doesn't make sense having M39 but not M110. "Why not both?" but since they perform the same function making one redundant I'd much rather have the latter. Or similar, HK417, depends on backstory, country of origin. I think a lot of people want M14 just because M14.

Personally I want at least one autoloading hunting rifle, and the same for shotguns. Browning BAR. Benelli R1. Verney Carron Impact. Etc. Such guns, always overlooked, probably the reason being they have little representation in popular media.

 

BAR Safari rifles are really nice and I'd love to have one in the game. I can imagine there'd be quite a bit of confusion when people saw that they're adding a "Browning BAR" to the game considering that's not usually what you think of when you hear "BAR."

 

M110s are the clear winner over the M14 in pretty much all regards. As for the M39 - I'm more leaning towards the MK14 EBR anyway - it's got automatic capability and is used by a wider range of forces than the M39 was, so it's not as redundant. However, both are still in service so it's not completely impossible to suggest either could have ended up in Chernarus, especially if they're trying to represent 2009-era USMC when the M39 would've still seen more use.

 

However, I think we can agree that before either of those weapons come to the table they should probably add the FN FAL or a G3 - much more common battle rifles on the international stage.

 

As for the current hitpoint damage system - yes, that's pretty much my line of reasoning for it. I know it'll change but right now it'd be fairly bad if we had semi-auto battle rifles spawning willy nilly in civilian areas. Also, I don't want AR-15s to have 30 or 40 round mags spawning in civilian areas, at least not often - the vast majority of them should be the 10 and 20 rounders, and the only reason I suggest that is because they're a fairly random thing to have with the military.

 

In the end I don't really think a civvie AR is necessary - the only one I believe is any important is the full-length M16; after that it's just variety. Not that I would mind other ARs (MK18s come to mind) especially considering the large amount of AKs we have, but the M4A1 with all of its attachments does a pretty good job of representing the rifle series.

 

 

 

Edit: I think the big thing going against the Tigr is that it's far too similar to the SVD in both appearance and role (I mean it's a variant of it.) Other civilian hunting rifles are definitely possible, but they'll probably be a part of a different rifle series (and there's still a whole lot they could do to make even bolt-actions appear different.)

Edited July 11, 2015 by Chaingunfighter

[Katana67 2907]

AR-15s are not a bad choice for civilian semi-autos in any case. There are factories even in Russia that manufacture semi-auto AR-15s, and pretty much every country in East Europe has some derivative in service (Russian Alpha-Vympel Spetsnaz have been seen with M4 Carbines.) The real problem with them would be gameplay issues that come with it sharing ammo, mags, and attachments with the M4A1 and other military derivatives, which could be problematic in the long run. But, of course, they could also just use an old CAR-15 Sporter without a rail and thin handguard and have only the 10 and 20 round magpul rounds spawn, which would give a realistic use to them (since no military force issues those) and also keep it reasonable for a civilian tier weapon versus the M4A1.

 

Mini-14s are really easy to get in the US and looking on Czech Websites there are quite a few around that region as well. It's a classic and iconic alternative to having to add an AR to the game - not the most realistic but certainly a civvie weapon. And, of course, they can add the Mini-30 in 7.62x39mm, which would make sense as well.

 

I can't see any case that an M14 or M1A derivative would not be a military spawn, though. Even if they went for an original wooden styled one (not the more realistic MK14 or M39 EMR) and made it semi-auto only it'd probably be a NATO weapon just because it's a high-capacity battle rifle. If civvie spawns are going to have high-caliber guns on them, then the most that'd really be good to see would be semi-autos like the SVT-40 or M1 Garand, but if it gets to the point where you can loot a barn and find a 20 round battle rifle it might not be great.

 

Of course they do have the ability to control individual buildings now so we may after all get our wishes of "guerrilla caches" where older military weapons that don't make sense in either regular civvie houses or military bases do (i.e. the PPSh-41)

 

I think this raises a good point, one that I know you and I raised a while back. There's overlap between civilian and so-called "military" weapons, the AR-15 and M14 are great examples of this. The magazines and capabilities between "civilian" versions and "military" versions of these weapons are often interchangeable.

 

Perhaps it would make sense to have fire modes be the main delineation between military and civilian weapons. Civilian ARs are semi-automatic, whilst military ARs have automatic/burst capabilities. Seems like a decent enough difference.

 

Personally, if they were to implement a "civilian" AR-15, I think it'd be something along the lines of what Torchia said about a mid-length fixed stock AR-15 way back. I don't particularly think it's worth it, as I'd rather see other AR-15 variants (namely some sort of full-on M16 and/or a Mk 12). But, I think a good "civilian" AR-15/10 would be some kind of fixed stock bull-barrel weapon. Not the sexiest weapon in the world, but gets the job done I suppose.

 

As for the magazines, they're rare enough as it is. Could be problematic for the low-end "civilian" weapons like any future civilian AR-15, but might not be a show stopper.

 

I'm not sure how one can support the "Mini 14s aren't popular anymore" argument. Sure, they were popular in the 90s because they could skirt certain regulations and were the target (like the SKS) of gun legislation in the United States. But, they're still being made, they've just been outshadowed by the boom in production that we've seen over the past 20 years.

 

I absolutely support the Mini 14, it's not insanely rare (even in Eastern Europe, a few former Soviet countries [primarily the Baltics] still employ M14s as DMRs, Mini 14s are available to civilians [see Anders Behring Brevik [sic?]], and some countries received tens of thousands of them).

 

To the OP, yes! I support these, and all weapons for that matter! However, you do have to be wary of weapons using relatively ubiquitous calibers. In my ideal DayZ, calibers would be more rigidly tailored to the types of weapons they're intended for. So things like the CR 527 wouldn't be acceptable because it fires an assault rifle cartridge, which sort of undercuts how much it gets used and how valuable it is. Likewise, it forces certain calibers to be made less-rare to suit their less-rare weapon counterparts. In effect, this screws the "high-end" weapons that use said caliber by making it too easy to find because it's used in common weapons.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Katana67

[DURRHUNTER 597]

The SVT40 will come sooner or latter i hope, the weapon has so much to offer but the devs may not see it.

who wouldnt love to roleplay as a Russian sniper with a SVT40 and a Tokarev strapped to his hip?

we can only hope for these things though...

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I think this raises a good point, one that I know you and I raised a while back. There's overlap between civilian and so-called "military" weapons, the AR-15 and M14 are great examples of this. The magazines and capabilities between "civilian" versions and "military" versions of these weapons are often interchangeable.

 

Perhaps it would make sense to have fire modes be the main delineation between military and civilian weapons. Civilian ARs are semi-automatic, whilst military ARs have automatic/burst capabilities. Seems like a decent enough difference.

 

Personally, if they were to implement a "civilian" AR-15, I think it'd be something along the lines of what Torchia said about a mid-length fixed stock AR-15 way back. I don't particularly think it's worth it, as I'd rather see other AR-15 variants (namely some sort of full-on M16 and/or a Mk 12). But, I think a good "civilian" AR-15/10 would be some kind of fixed stock bull-barrel weapon. Not the sexiest weapon in the world, but gets the job done I suppose.

 

As for the magazines, they're rare enough as it is. Could be problematic for the low-end "civilian" weapons like any future civilian AR-15, but might not be a show stopper.

 

I'm not sure how one can support the "Mini 14s aren't popular anymore" argument. Sure, they were popular in the 90s because they could skirt certain regulations and were the target (like the SKS) of gun legislation in the United States. But, they're still being made, they've just been outshadowed by the boom in production that we've seen over the past 20 years.

 

I absolutely support the Mini 14, it's not insanely rare (even in Eastern Europe, a few former Soviet countries [primarily the Baltics] still employ M14s as DMRs, Mini 14s are available to civilians [see Anders Behring Brevik [sic?]], and some countries received tens of thousands of them).

 

Fire modes don't really make a giant difference to me - even though Gews proposition for adding a CLEC M4 with a 16' barrel in semi-auto would be really simple, I don't think it's enough to "balance" having it be a common civilian spawn, and it also would make guns like the M4A1 not really significant (only a minor upgrade for automatic fire.) The big advantage of something like the AR-15 besides attachment ubiquity is the fact that it can get some pretty big magazines, but as long as they went with some sporter that doesn't have access to the same attachments (say a CAR-15 sporter) then it'd be perfectly fine.

 

Though again, I do think an M16, probably an M16A4 would be the most sensible option if they're going to do any more of the AR15 series (burst fire, longer barrel, still has full attachment capability like the M4.)

 

An MK18 or M933 is also reasonable, and those have the added bonus of requiring next to no major work other than cutting down the M4 barrel to 10.5 or 11.5 inches and maybe some minor cosmetic texture changes. Otherwise they could reuse the same body, same handguards, same stocks, same muzzle attachments, and basically everything else. Even an "actual" M16A4 would require new set of handguards and a fixed stock (perhaps interchangeable with the adjustable ones, but still) which is more than the shorter variants would.

[-Gews- 7443]

Though again, I do think an M16, probably an M16A4 would be the most sensible option if they're going to do any more of the AR15 series (burst fire, longer barrel, still has full attachment capability like the M4.)An MK18 or M933 is also reasonable, and those have the added bonus of requiring next to no major work other than cutting down the M4 barrel to 10.5 or 11.5 inches and maybe some minor cosmetic texture changes. Otherwise they could reuse the same body, same handguards, same stocks, same muzzle attachments, and basically everything else. Even an "actual" M16A4 would require new set of handguards and a fixed stock (perhaps interchangeable with the adjustable ones, but still) which is more than the shorter variants would.

Well, problem is apart from very minor specs the M16A4, Mk18, 933 doesn't bring any different gameplay or features from the M4. Game doesn't factor in velocity loss, all take attachments, all are accurate enough for differences never to matter, the smallest of the above is still more than 1/2 foot longer than AKS-74U (forget AKS-74U, the Mk18 and 933 are longer than a folded stock 7.62mm AKMS!) so backpack concealment is not allowed, etc...

[agouti 105]

 

SVT-40s use 10 round magazines and are only capable of doing such. Many of the other civilian weapons that hover around that capacity (SKS, Repeater, etc.) are all clip or tube-fed and only need handloaded ammunition, whereas if you want to do anything but chamber rounds in the SVT you have to have the mag. \

 

Look at the bottom rifle. Aw yus.

 

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Well, problem is apart from very minor specs the M16A4, Mk18, 933 doesn't bring any different gameplay or features from the M4. Game doesn't factor in velocity loss, all take attachments, all are accurate enough for differences never to matter, the smallest of the above is still more than 1/2 foot longer than AKS-74U (forget AKS-74U, the Mk18 and 933 are longer than a folded stock 7.62mm AKMS!) so backpack concealment is not allowed, etc...

I just figured that if Chris is going to go make an M16 which he's said is likely, he's probably going to end up using parts of the M4 model as a basis. Thus, if he's going to be fiddling around with that model already I don't see why it'd be very difficult or time consuming to just copy and paste the model with a chopped up barrel. It's really just for variety, although I do believe that the shorter MK18 will end up being preferable within interiors considering weapon-to-environment collision will probably be a thing (unless shooting through walls is going to stay.)

 

Also, the M16A4 shoots in 3-round bursts, so I figure that's a good enough difference from the M4A1 to make it reasonable beyond variety and the whole 'faction kit' system.

 

Variety isn't a poor reason to include other stuff, especially if it's reasonable and low-cost. The AK-74 was a realistic choice but before they decided to add 5.45 it wasn't really necessary considering the AK-101 did the job just fine. Yet even after they added the AK-74 and AKS-74U the 101 was still kept for variety, despite the fact that that's all it serves as right now. Not that it's bad to keep something they already added to the game, but it doesn't do anything that the other rifles can't and if it were changed to be an AK-74M it'd only be even more pointless, so, you can't always rat on just having more.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Look at the bottom rifle. Aw yus.

 

That's just an SVT-40 modified to use the 15-round AVS-36 magazines (or perhaps an AVS-36 magazine modified to fit the SVT-40.) You can see the same thing happening with the AVS-36 on top; it's using an SVT-40 mag. They weren't built to do that and it's not a common modification at all (Considering that AVS-36s are piss rare and the SVT-40 isn't exactly common either.)

 

However, I have learned that the SVT-40 can use 5Rnd Mosin stripper clips, so I guess in pretty much all cases this rifle would be an upgrade to the Mosin. The only downside is no direct hand loading, and as of right now the different reload animations would not work (even though we've seen that that's going to change soon.)

[-Gews- 7443]

I just figured that if Chris is going to go make an M16 which he's said is likely, he's probably going to end up using parts of the M4 model as a basis. Thus, if he's going to be fiddling around with that model already I don't see why it'd be very difficult or time consuming to just copy and paste the model with a chopped up barrel. It's really just for variety, although I do believe that the shorter MK18 will end up being preferable within interiors considering weapon-to-environment collision will probably be a thing (unless shooting through walls is going to stay.)

 

Also, the M16A4 shoots in 3-round bursts, so I figure that's a good enough difference from the M4A1 to make it reasonable beyond variety and the whole 'faction kit' system.

 

Variety isn't a poor reason to include other stuff, especially if it's reasonable and low-cost. The AK-74 was a realistic choice but before they decided to add 5.45 it wasn't really necessary considering the AK-101 did the job just fine. Yet even after they added the AK-74 and AKS-74U the 101 was still kept for variety, despite the fact that that's all it serves as right now. Not that it's bad to keep something they already added to the game, but it doesn't do anything that the other rifles can't and if it were changed to be an AK-74M it'd only be even more pointless, so, you can't always rat on just having more.

 

Variety, yes, but you did seem of the opinion 16" AR is not different enough from M4A1 - I'm pointing out in that case neither are the other variants you mentioned, they might look different but the gameplay would be the same. I don't care about pointless so much, me, I wouldn't mind a bunch more slightly different AK variants but I often see people complain "enough AKs!". As for the AK-101 they should change it to AK-74M since that's what it is, and it's obvious. They should have done so long ago, the fact it takes 5.56 makes little to no difference in function or performance, it just makes it wrong for no good purpose. The big difference from the AK-74, if they chose to work on it, would be its folding stock, though they would also need to remove the ability for all these instant stock swaps. Make AKMS and AKM two different guns, etc. Doubt this would happen.