the problem with dayz: not dank enough

[Wookieenoob 191]

everything in dayz is pretty much pristine and covered in green. while that's fine for the more rural areas like stary yar, an area like novodmitrovsk should be collapsing and full of rubble and mess. the most we really see is individual stacks of rubble or burnt out cars. the world is nicely put together but a lot of it lacks any sort of real persistence with the idea of it being a post apocalyptic environment. 

 

 

for one thing, why is there not a solid layer of moss and trees growing at random in the middle of streets and between cracks in pavement?

 

 

/=/ tldr the game feels finished and not rustic, and ARMA and not it's own entity. i'm aware i'm playing ARMA when i'm playing dayz.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Wookieenoob

[gibonez 3633]

 

 

/=/ tldr the game feels finished and not rustic, and ARMA and not it's own entity. i'm aware i'm playing ARMA when i'm playing dayz.

 

That right there will be the biggest problem going forward.

 

They must do whatever they must to separate the two ips so that they do not even remotely feel the same at the same time having that Bohemia Interactive signature of being Mod friendly and built on realism.

[Wookieenoob 191]

That right there will be the biggest problem going forward.

 

They must do whatever they must to separate the two ips so that they do not even remotely feel the same at the same time having that Bohemia Interactive signature of being Mod friendly and built on realism.

 

they should improve jumping and stick it on spacebar, as well as just sticking action key on F rather than on the mousewheel by default.

 

then dayz would feel like a wider variety of games that aren't ARMA

Edited June 7, 2015 by Wookieenoob

[p4triot 207]

everything in dayz is pretty much pristine and covered in green. while that's fine for the more rural areas like stary yar, an area like novodmitrovsk should be collapsing and full of rubble and mess. the most we really see is individual stacks of rubble or burnt out cars. the world is nicely put together but a lot of it lacks any sort of real persistence with the idea of it being a post apocalyptic environment. 

 

 

for one thing, why is there not a solid layer of moss and trees growing at random in the middle of streets and between cracks in pavement?

 

 

/=/ tldr the game feels finished and not rustic, and ARMA and not it's own entity. i'm aware i'm playing ARMA when i'm playing dayz.

 

Yo do realise the game atmostphere is set up just a few days/weeks after the zombie outbreak right? Things take a while to rust.

 

[jim.crak.korn 13]

Yo do realise the game atmostphere is set up just a few days/weeks after the zombie outbreak right? Things take a while to rust.

 

 

I thought I read some where it was 3 - 4 years down the road. If it were as soon as you are stating, there would be a bunch of dead bodies, and there would still be a pretty high population of humans comparred to 40 - 60 in the region.

[vfxtodd 123]

I do like the idea of moving jumping to the spacebar. I would think I could bind the spacebar to the jumping mechanic. If it's not available in the controls now I hope it's added. I also think the mouse wheel is an awkward action button. I can't tell you how many times I've had difficulty using the mouse wheel to scroll and select and another action occurs instead because of a slight movement of my thumb. Again, here I'd like the player be given the choice of what key to bind action to.

[gannon46 788]

I thought I read some where it was 3 - 4 years down the road. If it were as soon as you are stating, there would be a bunch of dead bodies, and there would still be a pretty high population of humans comparred to 40 - 60 in the region.

i assume if it was 3-4 years down the road the bodies would have decayed to pretty much skeletons eaten away by insects and the elements. your lovely canned food and soda would either be expired and the ones that aren't would be rare. there would be grass and growth one about every building. i have a house next door to me IRL and if it goes 2 months without a mow it becomes a jungle now picture 3-4 years everywhere. i figure the game would look like last of us if it was years down the road.

[darkrider400 76]

Yeah, if anyones ever read the Apocalypse Z series by Manel Loureiro, he takes science and realism and slaps them together. Since zombies are ROTTING flesh, they decay and insects (flies, maggots, decomposers), and animals will eat it, and it took maybe 3-4 years before zombies were basically wiped out by mold and didnt have enough muscle to move and got baked if they were in the sun, frozen if they were in the cold, decayed till nothing if they were in moist areas. It really wouldnt take zombies an awful long time to die. But with DayZ being set only weeks, maybe months after infection, I think there should be more destroyed stuff. Obviously as the outbreak would spread, military and government forces would be fighting to contain it everywhere, so why dont we see tanks and other such vehicles in the cities where they would be most common? And assuming that people couldnt really escape the infection, and assuming that the infection spread super-quick, why isnt there so much more loot? People wouldnt have had the chance to pack up all of their items and leave.

[Katana67 2907]

 

for one thing, why is there not a solid layer of moss and trees growing at random in the middle of streets and between cracks in pavement?

 

Because DayZ doesn't take place a decade after the apocalypse.

 

I think they could do a bit better on atmosphere, but not in the "making shit look beat up" department. Houses are messy and scuffed. Roads are cracked and beat the hell up. Windows are smashed. If anything, widespread destruction is more immersion breaking for me. What did someone go around breaking ALL the windows of Chernarus? Did a bloodied body get dragged in the same exact spot of every house in Chernarus once the shit hit the fan?

 

They need to add, and are adding, more "quarantine/outbreak" infrastructure. More roadblocks. More traffic jams. More CASEVAC points. More ruined medical tents.

 

I couldn't care less if it's covered in moss that would take a few years, at the very least, to grow.

 

And maybe it feels like ARMA because it's using the same map (which has been markedly changed by the way), exists in the same universe, follows certain general plotlines from ARMA 2, is made by Bohemia, uses an iteration of the engine used in ARMA, and owes its existence to a mod of ARMA.

 

Never understood why folks hate ARMA 2 so much now, and view DayZ as a categorical opposite to ARMA. There's a lot of differences. There's a lot of overlap. All encompassed in the unique experience of DayZ. 

Edited June 7, 2015 by Katana67

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

Yeah, if anyones ever read the Apocalypse Z series by Manel Loureiro, he takes science and realism and slaps them together. Since zombies are ROTTING flesh, -snip-.

 

These are virus created "rage zombies" that are living, not undead "risen from the grave" zombies that require headshots to kill.

 

They are "the infected", we are the immune.

[Coheed_IV 381]

First, the Z stands for zero, as in day zero of the infection, right? I'm sure they don't mind everyone thinking it's stands for zombies for the time being. But, they could actually market day zero with full release though.

I think it's tough to argue with the environment of Chernarus+, explore the north more, and enjoy those changes moving south.

That right there will be the biggest problem going forward.

They must do whatever they must to separate the two ips so that they do not even remotely feel the same at the same time having that Bohemia Interactive signature of being Mod friendly and built on realism.

I love arma, but I fully support what your saying, and seems they are doing so. Mouse scroll, yeah they can't wait till that's gone, and it will be. Edited June 8, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[Bororm 1156]

It's not that long after the apocalypse.  There's plenty of destruction, I dunno where people live when they make these complaints but my streets aren't full of rubble and burnt out cars and stuff, or most buildings having their windows wrecked etc.  It makes me wonder if the graphic settings play a big part of this, because I see this complaint all the time and just don't get it.

 

Think of it as the place was abandoned quickly rather than everyone died and went to shit, and it makes a lot more sense.

[too-easy 56]

I do like the idea of moving jumping to the spacebar. I would think I could bind the spacebar to the jumping mechanic. If it's not available in the controls now I hope it's added. I also think the mouse wheel is an awkward action button. I can't tell you how many times I've had difficulty using the mouse wheel to scroll and select and another action occurs instead because of a slight movement of my thumb. Again, here I'd like the player be given the choice of what key to bind action to.

Just change it by yourself?

You already can do that. I wouldn't be able to play without changing the key bindings.

[stielhandgranate 480]

First, the Z stands for zero, as in day zero of the infection, right?

 

Never heard anything official on this, wouldn't make sense as day 0 would be society and the government responding to the outbreak, with stuff like electricity,phone lines, the internet and radios still present, not several weeks after when all signs of society and infrastructure are long gone. I think it was overzealous fanboys trying to stop people from calling the infected zombies that pushed this theory.

[xalienax 621]

I wish they had gone with more of a STALKER-like feel with cities run down, more broken windows smashed in doors, etc. (perhaps even some decay/disrepair of some structures if this is indeed some Years after the outbreak.)

 

Even if its not that long, much of the wreckage around in the mod would lead one to believe there was a government/military response to the outbreak at some point. During this time of mass paranoia and containment there would be obvious damage. (not to mention zombs smashing thru doors and windows to get at fresh meaty survivors)

 

Note the obvious damage on these buildings. you can tell they have been subjected to the environment without maintenance and likely damage by the ongoing fighting mutant animals as well.

*Warning to phone/mobile users: Spoiler contains large images

 

 

[hekeetsu 86]

Never heard anything official on this, wouldn't make sense as day 0 would be society and the government responding to the outbreak, with stuff like electricity,phone lines, the internet and radios still present, not several weeks after when all signs of society and infrastructure are long gone. I think it was overzealous fanboys trying to stop people from calling the infected zombies that pushed this theory.

From what I know, it indeed stands for Day Zero, 0 being the day when you are washed on the beach. Like the start of your journey.

[DocWolf 146]

Because DayZ doesn't take place a decade after the apocalypse.

 I think they could do a bit better on atmosphere, but not in the "making shit look beat up" department. Houses are messy and scuffed. Roads are cracked and beat the hell up. Windows are smashed. If anything, widespread destruction is more immersion breaking for me. What did someone go around breaking ALL the windows of Chernarus? Did a bloodied body get dragged in the same exact spot of every house in Chernarus once the shit hit the fan?

Well,considering that Chernarus' architects apparently were trained on designing only a dozen or so buildings that dot eerily identical towns and cities in the region...it's not so difficult to assume infected chernarusian were so unimaginative to kill and maim other people in the same exact spot in every single identical building of the country.

Anyway, jokes aside...more immersive environment personalization is needed, that's a priority. They promised great things more than a year ago, and those promises remain on paper: that's a shame, because they're doing very interesting things with the environment (the revamp of the map, the northern development and so on).

 

 

They need to add, and are adding, more "quarantine/outbreak" infrastructure. More roadblocks. More traffic jams. More CASEVAC points. More ruined medical tents

Agree on the "they need to add", considering that as I've already said they promised that more than a year a go. But "they are adding"? Did I miss something?

 

And maybe it feels like ARMA because it's using the same map (which has been markedly changed by the way), exists in the same universe, follows certain general plotlines from ARMA 2, is made by Bohemia, uses an iteration of the engine used in ARMA, and owes its existence to a mod of ARMA.

 Never understood why folks hate ARMA 2 so much now, and view DayZ as a categorical opposite to ARMA. There's a lot of differences. There's a lot of overlap. All encompassed in the unique experience of DayZ.

Telling the developers to abandon the comforting features of ARMA is actually a quite sound business advice. DayZ originally was a fan-made mod, so yeah...basing technical/gameplay/environment features on ARMA was pretty much obvious. But when a company want to sell a product to its customers, it's better distance themselves from their previous products. They're trying to market DayZ as an innovative survival simulator, what's the point to link it with their dated, but still very good military simulators?

 

People should look at DayZ because it was developed by a good development team who created good games, not because the environment, the gameplay mechanics and a lot of other things are heavily based on previous successes.

Edited June 8, 2015 by DocWolf

[xalienax 621]

-snip-

 

People should look at DayZ because it was developed by a good development team who created good games, not because the environment, the gameplay mechanics and a lot of other things are heavily based on previous successes.

Ultimately the problem is that you have this big can of worms;

Many dayZ customers are former Mod players. Many of us want a continuation and refinement of that experience. this is a difficult thing that any developer faces when they take a mod and try to go retail with it. Alot of your sales (especially early access and pre-orders) come from fan loyalty to the originating MOD. those players expect, no- DEMAND, the same sort of niche experience that the mod gave them. its a fine line to walk- you have to be original/good enough as a stand alone product to be worth buying over the old game and it's mod but if you diviate too far from the aspects of the original mod you can be guaranteed nothing but bad press and a massive backlash from all the customers who came from the mod.

[tacticj 15]

On that Jumping topic i would hate to see people bunny hop away  h1z1 style.The limited jumping is fine imo because it stops you from using it when you dont need to jump and often works when you try to get over something.

[jim.crak.korn 13]

i assume if it was 3-4 years down the road the bodies would have decayed to pretty much skeletons eaten away by insects and the elements. your lovely canned food and soda would either be expired and the ones that aren't would be rare. there would be grass and growth one about every building. i have a house next door to me IRL and if it goes 2 months without a mow it becomes a jungle now picture 3-4 years everywhere. i figure the game would look like last of us if it was years down the road.

 

Canned food has a Best By date, not an expiration date. Usually this date is about a 2 - 3 year time frame. The USDA states that the food is easily edible 2 - 5 years beyond this date. It can last longer if it is in a cool dry location. White Rice, lasts forever, again in a cool dry place.

 

 

As for the grass and such, yes, it would be unkept. However, the conditions would be greatly influenced by the seasons.

[DocWolf 146]

Ultimately the problem is that you have this big can of worms;

Many dayZ customers are former Mod players. Many of us want a continuation and refinement of that experience. this is a difficult thing that any developer faces when they take a mod and try to go retail with it. Alot of your sales (especially early access and pre-orders) come from fan loyalty to the originating MOD. those players expect, no- DEMAND, the same sort of niche experience that the mod gave them. its a fine line to walk- you have to be original/good enough as a stand alone product to be worth buying over the old game and it's mod but if you diviate too far from the aspects of the original mod you can be guaranteed nothing but bad press and a massive backlash from all the customers who came from the mod.

 

Many DayZ customers are...what again, exactly? Official numbers put the customer base of this alpha above the three-million figures. As in, more than three million people payed and downloaded it from Steam. The majority of people on this forum are former mod players. Everyone else is just a "simple customer" and in absence of any kind of hard evidence we're forced to consider that "simple customers" outnumber greatly "former mod fans, because there is no way at all that the old mod had more than three million supporters back at the time.

 

And just to remain on the topic of discussion...why exactly should a videogame development company sell a polished, updated version of a free, outdated mod? Don't get me wrong, I like DayZ the mod. But that thing is completely different from DayZ standalone...or it better should be. Because DayZ standalone is a product that is going to be marketed to customers, not an add-on freely downloadable by fans.

 

People tend to forget that the development of DayZ standalone is not some kind of in-house amateur project, made by gamers for gamers. It's a business venture. It's a honest-to-god product that has a price tag, is going to be pushed by PR specialist, is going to be sold to people. That is the reason behind the "DayZ should step aside from the mod and ARMA legacies"...a lot of people are not going to pay money for a polished version of a mod, or for a simulator heavily influenced in game mechanics by other simulators...even if the game it's good.

Edited June 8, 2015 by DocWolf

[xalienax 621]

Many DayZ customers are...what again, exactly? Official numbers put the customer base of this alpha above the three-million figures. As in, more than three million people payed and downloaded it from Steam. The majority of people on this forum are former mod players. Everyone else is just a "simple customer" and in absence of any kind of hard evidence we're forced to consider that "simple customers" outnumber greatly "former mod fans, because there is no way at all that the old mod had more than three million supporters back at the time.

 

And just to remain on the topic of discussion...why exactly should a videogame development company sell a polished, updated version of a free, outdated mod? Don't get me wrong, I like DayZ the mod. But that thing is completely different from DayZ standalone...or it better should be. Because DayZ standalone is a product that is going to be marketed to customers, not an add-on freely downloadable by fans.

 

People tend to forget that the development of DayZ standalone is not some kind of in-house amateur project, made by gamers for gamers. It's a business venture. It's a honest-to-god product that has a price tag, is going to be pushed by PR specialist, is going to be sold to people. That is the reason behind the "DayZ should step aside from the mod and ARMA legacies"...a lot of people are not going to pay money for a polished version of a mod, or for a simulator heavily influenced in game mechanics by other simulators...even if the game it's good.

For actual stats? I would point to to massive increase in Arma 2 Combined operations sales on steam after dayZ mod went viral. Obviously we cant prove how many of them went on to buy the SA, But i know almost everyone i Played mod with jumped on the SA train the first week it was available on steam. the story repeats in every major mod community that pre-dated the SA being released on steam.

 

I'm not saying they should copy the mod exactly (tho I would prefer they stay as close to the familiar core as possible); I am however saying they walk a fine line when it comes to PR. Without the fanbase/coverage that the mod had established SA would have likely never existed or entirely flopped. basically what im saying is its something that has to be given consideration. drift too far from the core gameplay that your most loyal fanbase associates with the title = massive backlash and a PR nightmare. Coppy the mod and you risk angering all the new customers who will look at ti and be angry that you 'coped-out' and didn't deliver a new and original product for the price.

[gibonez 3633]

On that Jumping topic i would hate to see people bunny hop away  h1z1 style.The limited jumping is fine imo because it stops you from using it when you dont need to jump and often works when you try to get over something.

 

I am on the same boat , vaulting is perfectly fine for the games use.

 

Besides only an idiot would jump over and around stuff when they are as heavily burdened down with gear in a survival situation.

 

Jumping with everything you own and need to survive on you is asking for a broken ankle.

[xalienax 621]

I am on the same boat , vaulting is perfectly fine for the games use.

 

Besides only an idiot would jump over and around stuff when they are as heavily burdened down with gear in a survival situation.

 

Jumping with everything you own and need to survive on you is asking for a broken ankle.

agree. as much as there have been times where I wish I could hop over an annoying collision box on something I think 'jumping' would bring way more problem to the game then any benefit it might offer.

[danfinger (DayZ) 14]

Yeah, if anyones ever read the Apocalypse Z series by Manel Loureiro, he takes science and realism and slaps them together. Since zombies are ROTTING flesh, they decay and insects (flies, maggots, decomposers), and animals will eat it, and it took maybe 3-4 years before zombies were basically wiped out by mold and didnt have enough muscle to move and got baked if they were in the sun, frozen if they were in the cold, decayed till nothing if they were in moist areas. It really wouldnt take zombies an awful long time to die. But with DayZ being set only weeks, maybe months after infection, I think there should be more destroyed stuff. Obviously as the outbreak would spread, military and government forces would be fighting to contain it everywhere, so why dont we see tanks and other such vehicles in the cities where they would be most common? And assuming that people couldnt really escape the infection, and assuming that the infection spread super-quick, why isnt there so much more loot? People wouldnt have had the chance to pack up all of their items and leave.

 

 

my biggest gripe about zombies- even beyond  what you mention, WATER! Human bodies whether zombie or infected or whatever do not work without water. You've got maybe 1 week without fluids. After that cells just don't work. There's no way a body is going to run after not having a drink of something after a week. dessicated cells ain't gonna do their thing. No virus is gonna get around basic cellular biology.

 

So unless these infected are popping cans of kvas on the DL, the whole discussion is just silly.