Incapacitation from extreme pain

[Luftpancake 94]

Hello fellow survivors! I believe a player should be incapacitated from extreme pain to add to the realism for day-z! For example if i am hit with a sharp object several times in real life, i would not be able to walk that sh!t off. I would be down on the ground in agony barley being able to move. The system would be sort of similar to arma 2's were if you get shot too much and go prone on your back and can't move. A better animation of course, the animation would be similar to a fetal position, maybe even the player would lay on his or her's stomach or back and groan in pain. While incapacitated the player cannot do anything, no not even crawl depending on the pain. They cannot bandage them selves or move at all. This would last untill the player either bleeds out or gets injected with a morphine auto injector and is also bandaged by another player. Pain killers may help a little bit, maybe making the player be able to crawl for a short distance before going unconscious from pain or stop moving. Blunt objects will only cause incapacitation if the victim is struck more than several times on pain sensitive areas, such as the crotch, stomach,shins, and head. Same thing with sharp objects (but fewer hits cause incapacitation from them) Guns will easily incapacitate players with one to 2 shots on survivable areas, such as the shoulder, arms, chest (if you're lucky), and anything besides the head. So yay or nay on this idea?

, 

Edited May 29, 2015 by BillNyeTheRussianSpy

[Luftpancake 94]

Sorry for the lazy grammar and wording, i am very tired.

[rzarectha 4]

Hm, the idea sounds very good to me, but the way you describe it sounds very brutal. I understand that DayZ aims to be a survival simulator and not some arcade pve/pvp shooter, but it still has to be fun.

This mechanic would leave you completly defenseless, unable to bandage, barely able to walk (and for only a short distance), and cannot administer morphine or painkillers to themsevles. I think it would be a very rage inducing mechanic.

[Luftpancake 94]

Thanks for the reply, feel free to add to the idea or change anything.

[pilgrim* 3513]

Is this instead of 'broken arm'/'broken leg' or as well as ?

If damage causes extreme pain and extreme pain means you can't move till you are helped ..

- then if you take any damage you just have to lie there until someone helps you or you die ?

 

if broken arm / broken leg does NOT cause extreme pain

then you only get extreme pain when you are shot ?

- so might as well do away with bleeding, if you are shot you lie in one place till someone helps you or you die ?

 

or can you get extreme pain from eating bad berries ?

[Sister Ray 41]

A very good idea! It's something I've been thinking about too. Many of the weapons in Dayz feel unrealistically underpowered atm. It should be a big deal getting shot with any firearm or getting hit with a heavy/sharp object. The best and most realistic way to balance weapons would imho be to make them all more dangerous.

 

 

Still, I'd add some stages to incapacitation so that there is a somewhat bigger variance to results of getting shot with weapons of different calibers. For example, get hit with a single or two .22 bullets -> you fall down because of the shock and pain, but you can still get up and try to limp to safety. Get shot with a higher caliber bullet -> you fall down, but can still crawl for several meters before passing out. Get shot with a even larger caliber -> you're 100& incapacitated and can't do much more than writhe in agony and bleed out, if you're left without medical assistance. I'd also like that you could shoot while lying on your side, with a shaky aim, if you're not too inacapacitated. You should perhaps be able to bandage yourself, administer morphine, etc. in the lower stages of incapacitation, but be completely helpless in the higher stages.

This way, the difference between calibers would lie in the after-affects of getting shot, as in can you still be saved? And some calibers would be more reliable in their incapacitating/death-dealing properties than others.

 

 

This way, you'd be more concerned with getting shot and wouldn't go like: "oh, he's got just a makarov, I'll just charge at him" and just patch yourself up afterwards.

 

 

I also have a medical suggestion that I've been meaning to post as its own suggestion, but it fits here perfectly, so here goes:

 

There should be some changes made to the effects of morphine and painkillers. Also, the "pain" status from the mod should be brought back to standalone (I'm sure it'll make its way back eventually). First of all, morphine should be only useful for pain management, not miraculously fixing limbs. Healing a limb should need a splint and some time. First use for morphine and painkillers should be pain management, as in combating the effects of pain. The effects of pain could be shaky aim (as in the mod) and/or something else, you tell me.

 

Secondly, morphine and painkillers should be able to be used to combat the effects of incapacitation. Using morphine or painkillers should lower the level of your incapacitation and perhaps make you a bit more resistant to it. This way, a wounded person lying on the ground, unable to do anything else than cry in pain and bleed out could be brought back to it's feet, for a short time. It wouldn't heal the injuries, instead it would only make you able to bear them for a little while longer, and stay somewhat functional. How functional you would be after a shot of morphine would depend on your injuries. Even if you weren't that much in pain anymore, you still couldn't use that wounded leg.

 

Morphine and painkillers should differ from eachother in the duration of the effects, strength of the effects and how much time it would need for you to feel the effects. The effects of morphine should be instantly felt, with painkillers it should take some time for them to effect you. Painkillers would be less useful in the heat of the moment, but perhaps you would take them before the battle, predicting that it would be very possible to get hurt during the fight? Taken pre-emptively, they should make you more resistant to the effects of damage (as in damage causing less pain). You would still get injured/hurt by hits, but you wouldn't go down that easy because of pain. It's a bit gamish, yes, but it's the best I can come up with.

 

Also, with prolonged use of morphines and painkillers, addiction should be a very real danger. In a hopeless situation like the apocalypse you would be very prone to addiction, more so than in normal life.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Sister Ray

[ebrim 998]

I'd avoid doing anything quite so radical I think. I agree with the overall premise that getting hurt should mean more though. I think a lot can be done with the current shock/blood system. As shock rises relative to blood players can be made slower, less steady, even fall over frequently, etc. Painkillers could help to speed up reduction of shock or morphine could do so far faster. Morphine as a way to repair limbs should probably go away now that we have splints but moving around with a broken or injured limb not in a splint should cause shock to rise - do so long enough and you'll just pass out.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Ebrim

[BeefBacon 1185]

I think you should be able to bandage yourself and use morphine/ painkillers. If I was bleeding out and in agony I think I'd at least attempt to use the pristine bag full of medical supplies that is lying right next to me. You should also be able to crawl very slowly. It should more or less clear up on its own after a couple of minutes (to the point that you can move again) unless you bleed out, of course.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

If we getting limping as was previewed prior to release it will be a good intermediate level of incapacitation without leaving a player nearly 100% vulnerable.

 

We already have unconsciousness for that.

 

If I'm not mistaken, we will be seeing a state of shock due to injury but I'm not positive on this one.

[-Gews- 7443]

I mean, incapacitation, sure, in certain circumstances, but not as in some of these examples above, ie: getting stabbed, getting shot in the arm. Often in high-adrenaline situations, people don't even realize they've been stabbed (even shot) until they look down and see blood. I prefer players only be truly incapacitated if something has happened that makes them physically incapable of movement, or if they are on the ground bleeding to death... otherwise, as mentioned, we have limping and other more gradual effects.

[Luftpancake 94]

Love your guy's ideas.

[Luftpancake 94]

Well, how about depending how many times you were hit you may be able to heal yourself? But if you were really f***ed up you can barley move at all. And i liked the limping idea one of you guys have.

[Zboub le météor 250]

I mean, incapacitation, sure, in certain circumstances, but not as in some of these examples above, ie: getting stabbed, getting shot in the arm. Often in high-adrenaline situations, people don't even realize they've been stabbed (even shot) until they look down and see blood. I prefer players only be truly incapacitated if something has happened that makes them physically incapable of movement, or if they are on the ground bleeding to death... otherwise, as mentioned, we have limping and other more gradual effects.

this !

 

with this (shitty) generation of cam everywhere (and cellphones), we have multiple exemples of peoples being shot multiple times and running like rabbits afterward. this guy got shot 4 times (with 9mm probably) at 1-2m distance and is still able to run away (report says he died soon after in hospital even if he runned like he was not even wounded)

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2qu589_un-policier-en-civil-se-defend-face-a-un-carjacking_news#from=embediframe

 

this also remind me of the incident involving 2 bank robbers and police agent in the US, making them consider other calibers than 9mm. the robbers were shot multiple time (more than 5 times each and kept on firing at the police officers).

 

game is fine for me now, and with long term injuries, it will get even better.

 

edit : the incident taking part in the US is known as the 1986 FBI Miami shootout. first robber killed after 6 shots and the second after 12 (9mm and .38 special)

Edited May 29, 2015 by Zboub le météor

[EddyBalboa 6]

Hello fellow survivors! I believe a player should be incapacitated from extreme pain to add to the realism for day-z! For example if i am hit with a sharp object several times in real life, i would not be able to walk that sh!t off. I would be down on the ground in agony barley being able to move. The system would be sort of similar to arma 2's were if you get shot too much and go prone on your back and can't move. A better animation of course, the animation would be similar to a fetal position, maybe even the player would lay on his or her's stomach or back and groan in pain. While incapacitated the player cannot do anything, no not even crawl depending on the pain. They cannot bandage them selves or move at all. This would last untill the player either bleeds out or gets injected with a morphine auto injector and is also bandaged by another player. Pain killers may help a little bit, maybe making the player be able to crawl for a short distance before going unconscious from pain or stop moving. Blunt objects will only cause incapacitation if the victim is struck more than several times on pain sensitive areas, such as the crotch, stomach,shins, and head. Same thing with sharp objects (but fewer hits cause incapacitation from them) Guns will easily incapacitate players with one to 2 shots on survivable areas, such as the shoulder, arms, chest (if you're lucky), and anything besides the head. So yay or nay on this idea?

, 

You completely wrong my friend. When you ve got stressfull situation and you life depend on that how you react - adrenaline is here: you simply cant feel the pain. Just read some war stories dude. But aftershock will be amazing btw (just after 30-50 minutes after engagement with some banditry.

[ebrim 998]

this !

 

with this (shitty) generation of cam everywhere (and cellphones), we have multiple exemples of peoples being shot multiple times and running like rabbits afterward. this guy got shot 4 times (with 9mm probably) at 1-2m distance and is still able to run away

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2qu589_un-policier-en-civil-se-defend-face-a-un-carjacking_news#from=embediframe

 

this also remind me of the incident involving 2 bank robbers and police agent in the US, making them consider other calibers than 9mm. the robbers were shot multiple time (more than 5 times each and kept on firing at the police officers).

 

game is fine for me now, and with long term injuries, it will get even better.

 

edit : the incident taking part in the US is known as the 1986 FBI Miami shootout. first robber killed after 6 shots and the second after 12 (9mm and .38 special)

 

Actually, this is why I think the current shock/blood system works fine and just needs to be expanded as I say above. A small round like 9mm or .38 won't have very high shock damage and you could probably if in good health before the shot still run away after taking a bullet, at least long enough to get cover and trying to bandage. But a 7.62x54 should deal huge amounts of shock, likely knocking you down or entirely unconscious with the first shot even if it doesn't not kill you outright. Assault rifle rounds would be somewhere in the middle, a healthy person may just be able to take a shot and keep going if it's a non-vital location while a sick or otherwise injured person will get dropped.

 

Part of the work in the coming months is a new damage model, so we'll see what they do.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Ebrim

[Sister Ray 41]

Yeah, I guess limping and other wounded animations will help in conveying the impact of getting shot at, which is currently very lacking in. The situations where I shoot a guy in the chest, with him just running away, bandaging and returning to fight have pissed me off since the mod.

 

I'd still like some kind of incapacitating-via-administering-enough-pain -mechanic into the game in addition with the wounded animations. Perhaps the incapacitation should be delayed to simulate the effects of adrenalin. I'm not a firearms expert, so I don't really know how severe the incapacitation of that and that caliber should be (To be clear, I'm not suggesting adding some kind of incapacitation value to every caliber ingame, just have the incapacitation level be determined by amount of damage taken). Come to think of it, getting wounded, as in having to limp, is an incapacitation level in the system I'm talking about. Sorry, this is getting a bit mixed up :D

 

 

Also, imho, just raising the shock damage values of all weapons so that it's easier to get knocked out, would be a nice placeholder until we get a more complex damage system. I just hate how weak some of the weapons feel.

[Luftpancake 94]

Thanks for reminding me, I forgot to add the factor of the player's healthiness. If you are completely healthy when you are attacked you will be much harder to incapacitate because of your adrenaline level will be high. But if you are already f###ed up you will be easily incapacitatable and your adrenaline would not help you a lot.

[Luftpancake 94]

And i agree with sister ray, i have gotten very pissed off after hitting a bandit with an axe 4 or 5 just for him to run away, bandage, and shoot me. With him not very affected by the huge fking wounds in his chest by a splitting axe.

[ebrim 998]

And i agree with sister ray, i have gotten very pissed off after hitting a bandit with an axe 4 or 5 just for him to run away, bandage, and shoot me. With him not very affected by the huge fking wounds in his chest by a splitting axe.

 

There's no question that the shock value of some melee weapons needs to be increased a lot. You don't run away after getting smacked with a splitting axe.

[Luftpancake 94]

There's no question that the shock value of some melee weapons needs to be increased a lot. You don't run away after getting smacked with a splitting axe.

Amen to that. One time it took me over 20 stabs to a person with a hunting knife in dayz just to kill them.

[Rags! 1966]

Different human beings exhibit extremely different capacities to cope with pain. Pain is something that, in this case, would be a "feeling" and not so much an objectively tracked statistic. What hurts somebody might not necessarily bother somebody else much at all. 

 

Plus, this would beckon the addition of shock mechanics. It's better to have medical and health systems in the game that represent actual trackable. Blood level is a good example since it is something that a player can see the effects of. And symptoms of health problems that your character experiences should manifest themselves in more intuitively noticeable ways than incapacitation from pain alone. 

[Whyherro123 2283]

If anything, blood loss should be faster and more severe. In this video, a deer gets an obsidian-tipped arrow to the chest ( about 2: 45 in) from about 20 meters away. About 30 seconds later (and only about 50 meters), the deer died from blood loss.

 

https://youtu.be/1VCYlg9w7dE?t=160

 

Right now, in-game, unless the weapon has a high "shock" value, you can essentially tank blood loss like no big deal.

[gibonez 3633]

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/189882-incapacitation-kinectic-knockdown-discussion/