About the next coming camera angle

[pilgrim* 3514]

It's not "real human vision", it's just view that's seen through your character's eyes (not your own, obviously, as you are looking at the monitor), as opposed to a view from someone behind and above you. Naturally seeing the view through your character's eyes is way more realistic and immersive.

 

 

It's more immersive - meaning its more intense - I agree. I play 1pp for intensity.

But more "realistic" ?

 

hmm... there you go again. Do you understand this thing about human beings IRL having 170° forward vision? And spatial body-awareness ?

This is not rocket science, its your own eyesight, its your own location awareness - check it out.

Right now you KNOW where your feet are - yes?

Did you have to look ?

 

1pp and 3pp is NOT an obvious choice and Bohemia spent a lot of time studying the options. They aren't stupid.

They are still working on ideas to improve peception-simulation right now.

 

I used to play DOOM - 1pp. That was intense too. I have no problem with "intense".

Edited May 28, 2015 by pilgrim

[lrp1984 199]

The fact that you play the game the way you do does not remove the problem with 3rd person view. It's unrealistic. It's abusable. It's not what the devs seek. Be glad that 3rd person is still left as an option, knowing that DayZ strives for survival realism and 3rd person camera certainly does not add to that.

 

Oh and if you disregard the bullshit that is 3rd person only due to the fact that it allows you to see your character, then you're a casual and your opinion shouldn't be considered in the first place. You can't see yourself from a 3rd person perspective IRL. Why would you in a game that strives for realism?

 

How rude. There are already 1st person only servers that you can play your style on all you want. What you're looking to do is change the way other people, who you never play with, enjoy this game. Forcing your opinions and playstyle on other people when it doesn't effect you makes you a huge gaming bigot.

 

[lrp1984 199]

I have exactly 4 games bought in the last 10 years, because I'm not interested 99% of the games which appear on the market at all. One of them was SimCity 2013 which has cost 60 euros, and thanks to the developers the worst game has become at all, so I just played it 4 days, and have not touched since. The alternative would possibly Cities skyline, but I will not spend extra money just to finally get the game so what you had hoped for with SimCity.

Now finally, I bought the Dayz Standalone, after I determined 15 years have been waiting for a decent zombie game, because I'm not interested in all the other zombie games that have appeared in that time, if only because all the mutants which it occur. If I personally play a zombie game, I want to only see there zombies, and no mutants or whatever, as it will have all the kids these days.

So I finally decided on DayZ after I've watched previously extended period videos about it, and as I said, exactly 2 weeks later, I find out then after I've already bought the game that at one time the third person view is changed, exactly to the view which I absolutely can not stand in video games.

So the game is useless for me, from the moment which means I have my money spent in this case, nothing.

 

So I would also in this case to spend extra money to get me arma 2, to can then play the DayZ mod, only to finally get the game for which I have spent in vain already 30 euros.

Ultimately, I have therefore thrown in respect of dayz my money out the window. So I can only say thank you.

 

Well, they've not changed anything yet have they?

[Grimey Rick 3417]

In an open world game like DayZ, GTA or whatever i would like to see my own charakter, that's the reason why i play in thir person.

Okay, why? WHY?!? Why do you want to see your character?! What is this blanket rebuttal made by so many people? Why is it so important for you to see your character, and why does said importance trump fair gameplay?

Who gives a crap is it's an open world game? If you want to see your character, press TAB. Problem solved.

I, on the other hand, would like to know that some camping baddy isn't sitting on top of a building watching my every move without ever having to risk exposing himself to attain information pertaining to his surroundings. That, to me, is FAR more "game-breaking" than people feeling the need to be able to stare at their avatar while they traverse Chernarus.

What happened to DayZ supposedly being this anti-game that was going to be grueling, gritty, visceral, and extremely challenging? Now the forum is focused on whether or not they can see their fucking character.

/facepalmfromhellfml

[SniperV (DayZ) 43]

You know what?

 

I play on 1pp servers. Some of them have low player count, some are full. It takes few seconds to find the one that has as many players as you like.

 

I don't play 3pp anymore, I don't care about 3pp.

 

BUT

 

If someone who plays 1pp exclusively starts complaining about 3pp, suggest to change 3pp view because  of "reasons" even though 3pp players like it just the way it is now.

Then, I DO CARE.

 

Why the hell people can't accept that some folks like apples, while other enjoy oranges? Stop forcing everyone to east apples even if they don't like that.

 

Any 1pp player that suggest, that existence of 3pp is ruining his experience, is a dick.

 

 

 

Okay, why? WHY?!? Why do you want to see your character?! What is this blanket rebuttal made by so many people? Why is it so important for you to see your character, and why does said importance trump fair gameplay?

Who gives a crap is it's an open world game? If you want to see your character, press TAB. Problem solved.

I, on the other hand, would like to know that some camping baddy isn't sitting on top of a building watching my every move without ever having to risk exposing himself to attain information pertaining to his surroundings. That, to me, is FAR more "game-breaking" than people feeling the need to be able to stare at their avatar while they traverse Chernarus.

What happened to DayZ supposedly being this anti-game that was going to be grueling, gritty, visceral, and extremely challenging? Now the forum is focused on whether or not they can see their fucking character.

/facepalmfromhellfml

 

Why? WHY do you care? He likes to see his character, nothing wrong with that.

 

I always know that nobody is abusing the camera against me. My secret is playing 1pp servers.

Edited May 28, 2015 by SniperV

[Grimey Rick 3417]

Why? WHY do you care? He likes to see his character, nothing wrong with that.

I care because the whining of the masses about such a cosmetic feature is going to ruin the game in the long run. Such is the way of life on every level of retail, though.

And I'd play 1PP too, but, y'know, 90% of the servers are empty because easymode 3PP. Someone else hit the nail on the head when they gave an example about giving people $50 to either run a mile or sit on a bench for a few minutes. Humans suck and always choose the easy route.

If you feel that all of those people are playing 3PP so that they can appreciate their characters, then lol.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Grimey Rick

[scriptfactory 620]

Humans suck and always choose the easy route.

 

Doesn't choosing the path of least effort make sense in most cases? I'm not sure why you would want to create extra effort without a specific purpose...

 

The principle of least effort is a broad theory that covers diverse fields from evolutionary biology to webpage design. It postulates that animals, people, even well designed machines will naturally choose the path of least resistance or "effort".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_effort

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_action

[Grimey Rick 3417]

Doesn't choosing the path of least effort make sense in most cases? I'm not sure why you would want to create extra effort without a specific purpose...

There is a specific purpose... not sure if you're serious, can't read, or have lost your mind. The specific purpose we've already mentioned multiple times is to make a game that's challenging while maintaining some semblance of balance.

Choosing the easy route is not just human nature either, many animals choose laziness over unnecessary exertion. Humans are different because we can choose to push ourselves for no other reason than wanting to be challenged, like pushing ourselves through those last few reps on the bench, or creating a game that's a cut above every other generic trash game out there.

[SniperV (DayZ) 43]

I care because the whining of the masses about such a cosmetic feature is going to ruin the game in the long run. Such is the way of life on every level of retail, though.

And I'd play 1PP too, but, y'know, 90% of the servers are empty because easymode 3PP. Someone else hit the nail on the head when they gave an example about giving people $50 to either run a mile or sit on a bench for a few minutes. Humans suck and always choose the easy route.

If you feel that all of those people are playing 3PP so that they can appreciate their characters, then lol.

 

So better ruin the game for them?

1pp servers are ampty because too many people focus on destroying 3pp completly rather than advertising 1pp and trying to convince 3pp players to join us. You know, choosing the easy way.

 

I believe they should have a choice of 3pp if they dislike 1pp, same as we have a choice of 1pp when we dislike 3pp.

 

Choosing the easy route is not just human nature either, many animals choose laziness over unnecessary exertion. Humans are different because we can choose to push ourselves for no other reason than wanting to be challenged, like pushing ourselves through those last few reps on the bench, or creating a game that's a cut above every other generic trash game out there.

 

And you still fail to realize that in this case you want to force the guy working out next to you to make few more reps.

Edited May 28, 2015 by SniperV

[lrp1984 199]

I care because the whining of the masses about such a cosmetic feature is going to ruin the game in the long run. Such is the way of life on every level of retail, though.

And I'd play 1PP too, but, y'know, 90% of the servers are empty because easymode 3PP. Someone else hit the nail on the head when they gave an example about giving people $50 to either run a mile or sit on a bench for a few minutes. Humans suck and always choose the easy route.

If you feel that all of those people are playing 3PP so that they can appreciate their characters, then lol.

 

If the vast majority of players are on 3PP servers and enjoying it, then maybe you're the one playing the wrong game? However right now you have the option to play on a 1st person server, and if that's what you enjoy, then great! Nobody is trying to take that away from you.

 

Imagine how annoyed you'd get if people that very rarely play on 1st person servers, ranted about how they should be taken away because they personally don't like them :P

 

I remember Brian Hicks once replied, "Stop trying to make forcing other people to play the way you want them to happen, its not going to happen." to a request on his twitter to make experimental 1st Person only.

 

I therefore highly doubt we'll ever see a removal of 3PP.

 

https://twitter.com/Hicks_206/status/570570126749278208

 

 

 

 

 

[Grimey Rick 3417]

...and the fanboyism continues. It's all good. I'm immune, bros. I've been having this conversation for a year and a half now. You guys play 3PP for an unfair advantage. Just admit it. (;

"NO WAY MAN, 1PP GIVES ME MOTION SICKNESS AND, UMMM... I LIKE TO SEE MY CHARACTER!"

Yeah. Right.

[SniperV (DayZ) 43]

Fanboyism? Do you even know what it means?

You completly ignore the reasons why some people play 3pp and hope they will be forced to play 1pp or quit.

 

We're done here, you're either stupid or trolling.

[lrp1984 199]

...and the fanboyism continues. It's all good. I'm immune, bros. I've been having this conversation for a year and a half now. You guys play 3PP for an unfair advantage. Just admit it. (;

"NO WAY MAN, 1PP GIVES ME MOTION SICKNESS AND, UMMM... I LIKE TO SEE MY CHARACTER!"

Yeah. Right.

 

I play 3PP because I prefer it, and I think it makes a better and more immersive game, it's as simple as that.

 

I've always preferred 3PP games over 1PP shooters, long before DayZ ever existed, and will continue to do so long after DayZ has ceased to exist. I don't remember playing WoW or Assassin's Creed because I liked an unfair advantage. What a naive comment to make.

 

People enjoy different styles of play, it has nothing to do with what you perceive to be an unfair advantage. Your comment is as relevant as me saying you only like 1st person because you suck at 3rd person :P

[mercules 1290]

Doesn't choosing the path of least effort make sense in most cases? I'm not sure why you would want to create extra effort without a specific purpose...

 

Here is a neat thought for you. Things you "earn" are more valuable to you than things you are given in most cases. A perfect example is my daughter who was given multiple older iPhones from her grandma and aunt and broke them. It was only when she had to replace the last one by working for a summer that suddenly and magically she learned to really care for the expensive thing.

 

Some games I play simply because they are easy and I don't have to focus on them. Others I play because they are more challenging. I don't dial every game with a difficulty slider down to "easy"

 

But BI products are NOT supposed to be FPS games - they are supposed to be immersive battlefield SIMULATION games .. that's not the same as FPS for a whole set of reasons - read up on the subject.

Except DayZ is not a battlefield simulation...

About DayZ

DAYZ is a gritty, authentic, open-world survival horror hybrid-MMO game, in which players follow a single goal: to survive in the harsh post-apocalyptic landscape as long as they can. Players can live through powerful events and emotions arising from the ever-evolving emergent gameplay.

Horror is a lot more dramatic when the person is not separated from you by being a 3d puppet you manipulate.

And finally - you find a game "realistic" when any first year medical student, or any foot soldier, or any psychologist, or any game designer, or any alert player - can point out why it is not "realistic". then that's real nice for you but stay clear of the debate until you know what you're talking about.

There are dozens of reasons why it is not realistic starting and probably ending with, "It is a game." however some of us want a more "This is me." not "This is my guy/gal." feel to the game. Obviously when my character falls down a ledge and breaks their leg I don't want a hammer to swing and break my leg. Obviously no game is going to be totally realistic. However the developers use that word authentic, and to me that means not being able to see over fences/ledges or around corners without my eye actually being above/around it. True line of sight.

 

 

hmm... there you go again. Do you understand this thing about human beings IRL having 170° forward vision? And spatial body-awareness ?

This is not rocket science, its your own eyesight, its your own location awareness - check it out.

Right now you KNOW where your feet are - yes?

Did you have to look ?

 

1pp and 3pp is NOT an obvious choice and Bohemia spent a lot of time studying the options. They aren't stupid.

They are still working on ideas to improve peception-simulation right now.

 

I used to play DOOM - 1pp. That was intense too. I have no problem with "intense".

You don't have to tell me about spatial awareness as I can walk down a dark hallway and sense open doorways on either side just from the change in air pressure. You are never going to get that level of detail until they can wire a game right into our brains. However I still feel that the game is much stronger in 1st person. That lack of perfect perception is actually right on for a survival horror genre. Zombies are not "horrible" when I can easily avoid them by swinging the camera to look over a fence. I can hear zombies moaning and stepping in first person, but to actually do more than guess their location I have to peek and risk them seeing me. To me that improves the gameplay.

As for Bohemia and their "battle field awareness" this goes back to the "peripheral dots" that would alert you to objects that were not directly in your vision. Which turned into a legal wall hack since it didn't bother with LoS so much so you could see if someone was crouched behind a wall by turning your head away from them and seeing the white dot show up.

One of the more well known hardcore sim communities, Shacktac, does not play ARMA II or III in 3rd person. What does that tell you?

[tacticj 15]

I hope devs hurry up with the new 3pp and purge the abusers might even try it myself then.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

I play 3PP because I prefer it, and I think it makes a better and more immersive game, it's as simple as that.

I've always preferred 3PP games over 1PP shooters, long before DayZ ever existed, and will continue to do so long after DayZ has ceased to exist. I don't remember playing WoW or Assassin's Creed because I liked an unfair advantage. What a naive comment to make.

People enjoy different styles of play, it has nothing to do with what you perceive to be an unfair advantage. Your comment is as relevant as me saying you only like 1st person because you suck at 3rd person :P

It doesn't matter what you prefer. It doesn't matter what I prefer. 3PP is broken, and horribly imbalanced. If I had to choose, I'd pick 3PP for no other reason than it's more visually appealing.

But, y'know, there's that whole "broken" thing where you can see over walls and around corners without your opponent being able to reciprocate.

[Coheed_IV 381]

And I'd play 1PP too, but, y'know, 90% of the servers are empty because easymode 3PP.

This is true, but I'm thinking it will not always be the case. 1pp will grow when optimizations and high infected numbers happen. Once these two things happen I'll be back. Even better if they add stance adjustment.

 

 

Right now there's not enough benefit for me to put up with. It's not a game really, I'm just touring Chernarus.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[Platin. 6]

Isn't there any other thread, for those who want their other impose preferences.

 

It is not an "I play only in third person and thats why try this each other impose thread"

Edited May 28, 2015 by Platin.

[Coheed_IV 381]

One of the more well known hardcore sim communities, Shacktac, does not play ARMA II or III in 3rd person. What does that tell you?

It tells me they play pvp. They don't consider themselves a mil-sim community. But, I agree with them on most points, you get a better game experience, without question.

 

In this video (for thoughs who haven't seen :o ), explaining it as a crutch is right on. But, saying you cant see someone behind you IRL doesn't hold up to well, obviously you can sense it. That's the disconnect, senses, you have very little in game. That's why it's not really about "realism".

 

Not sure how anyone can argue about trying to fix this?

Edited May 28, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[scriptfactory 620]

 

Here is a neat thought for you. Things you "earn" are more valuable to you than things you are given in most cases. A perfect example is my daughter who was given multiple older iPhones from her grandma and aunt and broke them. It was only when she had to replace the last one by working for a summer that suddenly and magically she learned to really care for the expensive thing.

 

 

Off-topic kinda' but: Have you read the book "Sway: The Irresistible Pull of Irrational Behavior"? They say it is normal to value items that you have already invested time or effort into much higher than their actual value. This is not necessarily a good thing.

 

http://m.friendfeed-media.com/0291a25eb200c000199e9d00dc0a524ac1d843ed

 

[Re-Patch 47]

...and the fanboyism continues. It's all good. I'm immune, bros. I've been having this conversation for a year and a half now. You guys play 3PP for an unfair advantage. Just admit it. (;

"NO WAY MAN, 1PP GIVES ME MOTION SICKNESS AND, UMMM... I LIKE TO SEE MY CHARACTER!"

Yeah. Right.

 

Haven't visited this board for half a year or so, changed my mind today, saw this, remembered why I don't come here anymore, thanks for that.

 

------

 

I'd love to play 1PP again, but as long as they leave the eyes on the height of the breasts or don't change the window's height I'm not gonna do that. It's absoluetely ridicolous, it feels like your playing a child character. But you won't care since you are playing the real DayZ and everyone else isn't so... I'm out, just my two cents.

 

Cheers

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

The people defending the current 3PP are the least creative least constructive players of DayZ Alpha.

 

Go back and read over your posts, objectively if you can.

 

You should either feel ashamed, or stupid.

 

This game is supposed to be HARD and immersive.

 

The current 3PP nerfs both of those factors.

 

DayZ should be scary.

 

I swear to you, the current 3PP makes me feel super safe in comparison TO A DEGREE THAT IS LAUGHABLE AND TOTALLY FUCKING BROKEN.

 

Stand at the edge of a town in 1PP and you might see 2 houses deep into the town and see nothing over a fence or high wall.

 

Change to 3PP and now you can see 5 houses deep and anything at head level that passes between them.

 

With the current 3PP in place DayZ gameplay is an absolute JOKE, ESPECIALLY if you want to call it "survival horror".

 

Your lack of taste in good games, lack of balls, and shortsightedness in relation to DayZ dev, is duly noted.

 

CURRENTLY YOU ARE NOT PLAYING DAYZ.

 

YOU REALIZE THAT RIGHT?

 

THE GAME YOU PLAY NOW WILL BE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT COME 1.0.

 

THE WAY YOU PLAY RIGHT NOW WILL LIKELY NOT BE POSSIBLE.

 

RUNNING EVERYWHERE, WALL PEEKING, CAMPING IN 3PP ARE ALL GOING TO BE EXTINCT.

 

DayZ is a game you should commit many hours to for the most pay-off and is NOT INTENDED FOR INSTANT GRATIFICATION in any way.

 

Thank you.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

Haven't visited this board for half a year or so, changed my mind today, saw this, remembered why I don't come here anymore, thanks for that.

 

------

 

I'd love to play 1PP again, but as long as they leave the eyes on the height of the breasts or don't change the window's height I'm not gonna do that. It's absoluetely ridicolous, it feels like your playing a child character. But you won't care since you are playing the real DayZ and everyone else isn't so... I'm out, just my two cents.

 

Cheers

 

They raised the eye level a while back but you would only know that if you followed dev closely.

 

They are likely going to make more tweaks to FOV and 1PP as well.

 

Cheers.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

Okay, why? WHY?!? Why do you want to see your character?! What is this blanket rebuttal made by so many people? Why is it so important for you to see your character, and why does said importance trump fair gameplay?

What happened to DayZ supposedly being this anti-game that was going to be grueling, gritty, visceral, and extremely challenging? Now the forum is focused on whether or not they can see their fucking character.

/facepalmfromhellfml

fear not frauleins and pearly eyed men:

Ze Germans are coming.  (Berlin wall of text to follow):

Why does a first person perspective make it more visceral, gritty and gruelling than in third party?  I can understand how 1pp is all those thing but please explain to me (preferably without ad-hominem and strawman arguments) why it is actually better.   Then you can explain to me why fish is bettter than beef and metal music is better than classical.  Just try to do it please, I'd like to see you objectively describe a soft definition based on subjective opinion such as those you made and those others you admonish.

 

Your straw-man/generally-directed ad-hominem argument is pretty soft too, seeing as how the subject is on camera angle: it would be pretty obvious that people are going to discuss said topic (albeit with a large amount of screaming, hand-waving and tears).  There is no reason why a 3pp experience satisfies those values less than a 1pp experience, perhaps it even does better, this being a game and all. FIFA/NHL aren't first person are they? I can spend hours on them (before you shoot me down for team sports:); music is included OR omitted from games because the developers feel that it would make the game more immersive; colour palett is changed to vibrant/sepia/greyscale because it highlights/dulls certain features, making the game more visceral and gritty. 

 

These last posits are reflective of what both the producers want personally (Collectively) as a work of art/creativity, and also the angle of attack they have chosen so as to market and produce a commercially successful product. But while the numerous (or) overly-vocal members of the 1pp camp have been given the option to engage in the 1pp only servers, they continue to complain about the fact that those servers are empty or near on, suggesting that the majority of players are preferincing 3/1, or just plain want to see 3pp removed for some other unknown reason (generally citing wall-peeking which would be a non-issue on 1pp servers).

 

What does that say about the gameplay?

what does that say about the community?

what does that say about individual (possibly misguided or misplaced) opinion about what this game should be, having purchased it in pre-alpha, when the original mod supported the exact same gameplay feature we discuss right now?

 

The only 'advantage' that the 1pp camp holds despite the consistantly flawed logic and diversionary arguments, is that BI already has everyone's money, and should they feel inclined to produce a game more representative of the majority (or) more vocal community, they can do so.  They don't need market research at this point, so there is a slighlty favourable possibility that they would remove the gameplay feature which was part of the original mod, other BI titles and shown frequently in the proof of concept and other marketing videos and screen captures.  But ultimately BI can do what they want, and have complete artistic freedom short of pulling an A:CM on us.

 

Aside:  too many people invoke the ether saying 'this is what the devs want' or 'this is what they'll end up doing' as if they have some kind of insider information.

 

(and yes, i do enjoy 1pp servers, and lament the server population, but could give two french legs whether i play 1pp or 3pp).

 

now all you filthy commies GET BACK ON YOUR SIDE OF THE WALL!  There's no one stopping you going to 1pp, it's just you're not allowed back if you cross the demarkation.

 

le rant le end.

*Cough Spit Hack*

SEI SCHLUSS!

Edited May 28, 2015 by q.S Sachiel

[Re-Patch 47]

They raised the eye level a while back but you would only know that if you followed dev closely.

 

They are likely going to make more tweaks to FOV and 1PP as well.

 

Cheers.

Wait a second? Are you serious? I missed that news sorry, so it is actually better now? Because I told myself I'm not gonna try again until they fix that, it was horrible before.

Hell's yeah that'd be effing amazing (even though I like the current 3PP as well), I'm gonna try it tonight then.

 

Hope there are still some servers left?

Edited May 28, 2015 by re-patch