DayZ is the greatest game ever made

[jubeidok 495]

I wish I could share in your optimism. I fear that DayZ will always feel like a hacked together mod.

 

Also, GTA kicks the shit out of any game ever made. There is no other game where you can just stand around not playing the game and still be entertained. Pure perfection.

[SniperV (DayZ) 43]

I've probably lost more save data historically than you'll be able to create in the next decade.

 

I made it clear that I don't care for FPS games prior and unless you have also been playing games for 30+ years there is no chance that you have played as many "great games" as I have.

 

If you think military sim or FPS's constitute an innovative game experience at all then we'll never agree on games.

 

My above statement clarified what I meant regarding weight and stamina.

 

Neither you nor scriptfactory have offered an example where all of those factors I mentioned are being implemented on this scale, you just wanted an opportunity to shoot me down.... the difference is that scriptfactory was constructive where you were mostly being a prick.

 

Your ignorance levels are certainly impressive. If you choose to ignore the innovative mechanics of FPS games, then there is no point of further discussion. Stamina system was pretty complex in ACE, America's Army has a solid healing system, but feel free to belive that DayZ will make it better, since some dev said so.

 

On top of that you're trying to convince us that so far non-existing features of DayZ will be great beyond anything we've ever seen. How about instead of insulting me, we continue this discussion when DayZ has those systems working, then you might actually have some arguments to back up your claims.

[Bororm 1156]

Ultima Online is the greatest game ever made, and over 17 years later no other game has bothered to compare which is amazing to me.

 

DayZ is pretty good though, my steam review was that it's the best game since UO.  I'm not sure if I'll still feel that way with the direction it's possibly headed with Rocket gone but we'll see!

[boneboys 7988]

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted,  petty bickering is beyond me.

 

Expect many tears when weight & stamina are implemented...

[Traveler (DayZ) 27]

The game is okay atm, it could be better, but it is slowly and steadily on its way. They have gone to the lenghts of updating the engine, what Dean Hall said would take too long to accomplish.

We are in a very good situation now: There are still the mod and the mods of the mod around, there are other survival games out there for the change, and when all is said and especially done here we'll come back to the one and only.

 

While this game is not the best ever made by a long stretch porobably, it has shaped my gaming habits and influenced my life like none other has and probably noe other ever will!

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

Your ignorance levels are certainly impressive. If you choose to ignore the innovative mechanics of FPS games, then there is no point of further discussion. Stamina system was pretty complex in ACE, America's Army has a solid healing system, but feel free to belive that DayZ will make it better, since some dev said so.

 

On top of that you're trying to convince us that so far non-existing features of DayZ will be great beyond anything we've ever seen. How about instead of insulting me, we continue this discussion when DayZ has those systems working, then you might actually have some arguments to back up your claims.

 

 

Ah, the final defense of an Alpha denier.

 

You're right! How could I possibly have an argument when the features aren't in the game yet!?

 

In a discussion about design and innovation, talking about planned features for an Alpha is relevant, right?

 

All of the people who say things like, "I'll believe it when I see it!", end up just sounding like naysayers and never really contribute anything here.

 

How about I bet you're not around here to discuss those systems when they are in place, just like you weren't here to discuss the plans for this game 3 years ago either?

 

For the record, you were insulting first and then tried to turn around and accuse me of the same.

 

You should really check those hypocrisy levels as they are off the charts.

[SniperV (DayZ) 43]

In my first post I haven't even replied to you personally, then you quoted me and called me a prick.

 

I have followed DayZ since the early mod days, not sure about you.

 

Of course praising imaginary, non-existing mechanics is contributing more than actually demanding some proof that they are at least work in progress and a real possibility.

 

Good day to you, condescending sir.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

No wonder people claim that SA is a great game (even in its current state) if they never experienced any great games before.

 

Weight and stamina innovative? Oh wow. Just to name some DayZ - related games that had it before: ACE for ArmA 2, DayZed for ArmA 2, some Epoch variants, recently - Origins, ArmA 3.

 

I understand, I thought my first car was the best ever, untill I've tried other ones.

 

It's obvious you are dealing with massive amounts of denial.

 

I never referenced your first post.

 

You posted this quote directly below my post RE: weight and stamina as an obvious slight to my knowledge of games.

 

Don't try to act holier than thou when your text is saved for all here to see.

 

I too have been playing since the early days of the mod.

 

My forum join date would show you that but apparently no one has the time to float over forumers names with a mouse pointer.

 

I take the devs words at face value when they tell us there is a lot of internal work being done on things we don't get to see or even hear much about.

 

In fact, I assume EVERYTHING on the roadmap is being developed in one way or another internally and they wouldn't announce said features if they didn't have a strong impression that they will be a reality.

 

All discussions about DayZ are hypothetical if only for the fact that DayZ is alpha.

 

If you cannot extend your imagination to see the depth of item weight (already in the game by the way!), the infected stamina (also already in game!), and now soon to be featured player movement and stamina changes to be able to discuss these plans as innovative then you re woefully short sighted.

 

Good day, guy who was originally condescending and is now accusing me of same.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

No wonder people claim that SA is a great game (even in its current state) if they never experienced any great games before.

 

Weight and stamina innovative? Oh wow. Just to name some DayZ - related games that had it before: ACE for ArmA 2, DayZed for ArmA 2, some Epoch variants, recently - Origins, ArmA 3.

 

I understand, I thought my first car was the best ever, untill I've tried other ones.

 

 

In my first post I haven't even replied to you personally, then you quoted me and called me a prick.

 

I have followed DayZ since the early mod days, not sure about you.

 

Of course praising imaginary, non-existing mechanics is contributing more than actually demanding some proof that they are at least work in progress and a real possibility.

 

Good day to you, condescending sir.

 

You were referring to Biohaze's previous statements directly and doing it in a condescending, rude way. 

 

If everyone on this board was discussing the potential mechanics of this game in a strictly imaginative way and we were in beta or after release, then I might agree with some of your sentiments. However, this is alpha. Despite this fact being thrown around a lot, I often get the sense that many of the people on the forums have no real idea what it actually means.

 

In relation specifically to video games, when the software is in alpha, features are being implemented. Once the game hits beta, the features and mechanics of the game are generally locked in, barring some major changes that may need to be made as a result of bugs or new information from testing, and then the devs begin squashing every bug they can find.

 

So, not only is this the stage to discuss the implementation of features on our end, but the devs do it too and I can guarantee you that Biohaze, who has been posting in this forum for years now and hanging on every word the devs type hoping for a glimpse of the future, is not simply pulling the ideas he is talking about from his ass. Since you don't know him like I do, please allow me to do some of the legwork for you and quell your negativity. 

 

Stamina bar in new HUD: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/224386-dayz-sa-hud-concept(Directly from devs)

 

Weight system: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/220780-status-report-17-feb-15/(Directly from devs)

                         "Total weight that character is carrying around will be used later to modify his stamina value."

 

That took all of 30 seconds to find references directly from the devs. If they aren't sure whether something will be in the game, they either say nothing at all about it or say that it is unlikely as we have seen from Eugen many times in response to player requests. If they are talking about it at all, that is pretty good evidence that implementation of said mechanic is being discussed internally and steps are being taken to deem whether or not the mechanic is viable, if not even possibly already in some internal build branch. If they were more loose lipped, people would be even worse to them than they already are with the "but you said X thing was going to happen [maybe] and it didn't so fuck you!" crap that has infested dev to player interactions on the internet.

 

I made the original statement that DayZ SA is the greatest game ever made, by which, as you can see if you read my OP, I mean that this game has nearly limitless potential and, as I am now adding since I find it incredibly relevant, a dev team that is not afraid to do things that may alienate the AAA crowd. The immersion, attention to detail, confirmed changes and implementation of features, new tech, etc. all have me dreaming of a fantastic zombie apocalypse sim, something that the world has never seen before.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but no one is entitled to being ignorant. Now can you quit with the petty bickering so this discussion can continue until the next guy comes along trying to be disruptive?

[Coheed_IV 381]

DayZ is only point, shoot, die, rinse, repeat, right? It's just stretched over a longer period of time but, currently, it is a slow deathmatch game. Even after all features on the roadmap are added there is still no innovation that Minecraft hasn't already provided .

Maybe, but that's missing the point. The point is the "journey" not the "destination". A2 excelled at this, your firearm wasn't really that important, logistics, communication, scouting, and planning were the most enjoyable aspects.

Much more cognitively engaging than any shoot die rinse repeat game could be. Some people never could cross that gap in understanding how to enjoy it. Only interacting with the world by using a weapon, that's basically doom+. Missing the point.

The more indepth features, the more enjoyable journey, IMO. Adding as much as they can to the environment fosters this. Feature "bloat" should be the plan, it's why modding is so important. Hopefully like ACE2 did, modding will add to journey.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

-snip-

Much more cognitively engaging than any shoot die rinse repeat game could be. Some people never could cross that gap in understanding how to enjoy it. Only interacting with the world by using a weapon, that's basically doom+. Missing the point.

-snip-

 

You get it.

 

You REALLY fucking get it!

 

<3

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

It's hard to place one game as the greatest of all time for me.  As an enjoyer of games in general everything can be subjective to my mood of exploration for the day,week or month.  DayZ overall since the beginning has offered me one of the most unique and intriguing gaming experiences in my all time spectrum.  With all that said, the sheer replayability and want to return time and time again has made the game as a whole top my personal chart.  It's my hopes that a year plus from now things will becoming full circle and DayZ will be discussed in every gaming expo for years as a prime example to do as you feel when making a game not do as your told to regurgitate product.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

It's hard to place one game as the greatest of all time for me.  As an enjoyer of games in general everything can be subjective to my mood of exploration for the day,week or month.  DayZ overall since the beginning has offered me one of the most unique and intriguing gaming experiences in my all time spectrum.  With all that said, the sheer replayability and want to return time and time again has made the game as a whole top my personal chart.  It's my hopes that a year plus from now things will becoming full circle and DayZ will be discussed in every gaming expo for years as a prime example to do as you feel when making a game not do as your told to regurgitate product.

 

I get that I'm being completely subjective. After all, there are tons of people out there who love basketball games, for example, and I can't stand sports video games even though I like to play sports IRL. 

 

That said, for the past few years I have been thinking heavily on the topics of immersion in gameplay and how every minor detail in the game itself either lends to or takes away from the state of immersion. In this time, I began to wish for a game that really focuses on drawing you into the game world rather than the usual AAA checklist of features. Even in games that I have absolutely loved, I never get the feeling that immersion is pursued in the way that BI is doing with DayZ. For the first time in a video game, I am made to have genuine feelings like anger, fear, anxiety, joy, and regret and there is not one single spoken word of dialogue, hardly a scrap of lore or story, and absolutely no hand holding whatsoever. The game gets the hell out of your way and lets you not just play, but experience in a way that nothing else ever has even come close to for me. 

 

I have never once really cared about my avatar's death in a game, not really. You load your last checkpoint or save and try again in modern gaming. I have never felt genuine anger and regret at another player after being forced to kill them. I would have never expected to be quite so happy to find what would ultimately be graphical assets and not usuable items in other games like a battery, a cooking pot, or a raincoat. I've never felt like someone was looking over my shoulder and felt the slow creep of anxiety from looting a location knowing a clock was ticking before another survivor shows ready to fight to the death over a box of 20 rounds or a can of peaches in any other game. I've never felt this level of concern for an injured friend and brought them back from the brink of death in any other game. I've never felt the panic stricken desperation and certainty that this is the end in any other game like I did when I was in Cernaya Polana and forgot to restock my rags, began bleeding from zombie attacks, got separated from my partner, and at least 20 zombies attacked over the course of about 1 minute. 

 

These kinds of experiences are just the beginning and I am already hopelessly hooked on this game. The devs are nailing every note in my opinion and the roadmap looks like everything I would do if I was in their place. I've only been playing this game for 3 months and I can tell you right now that there is a good chance I will still be playing it in 3 years. After all, I still fire up Diablo 1 for the procedurally generated dungeon every so many years. I still play old Gameboy games on an emulator like Golden Sun, Pokemon, Castlevania, and Metroid. I still play Borderlands 1 and am still working on a Psycho character in Borderlands 2 only now on PC rather than Xbox 360. I recently snagged Morrowind for PC even though I have played it many, many times on the original Xbox so I can get involved with Skywind. I'm on my ?th playthrough of the ME trilogy. I honestly don't know how many times I have played through each game with a different character. At least 20 but I hesitate to put a number on it. Anyway, my point is that what DayZ aims to accomplish is every single bit as important to gaming as any one of those titles I just mentioned. I feel sorry for the people who lack the insight to recognize that.

[Tatanko 5591]

It's my hopes that a year plus from now things will becoming full circle and DayZ will be discussed in every gaming expo for years as a prime example to do as you feel when making a game not do as your told to regurgitate product.

This.

 

I think we'll all fondly remember participating in the grand experiment of helping to develop a game through active participation as well. The success or failure of this game as an Early Access product (or whatever lies between the two extremes) will ultimately be of great consequence to the game development process as a whole, and will additionally serve as an example of how to interact with your community as the developer of a game. Many lessons will be learned no matter the outcome, but we'll all have fun along the way.

[RagedDrew 209]

I believe this is vaguely confirmed, when Eugene answer a load of questions on Twitter. Dismemberment in some form.

I never seen that but lets hope, it'll be cool to chop a couple of arms off and watch it round around lol. Better still, having just a torso and a head chasing you.

[Coheed_IV 381]

For the first time in a video game, I am made to have genuine feelings like anger, fear, anxiety, joy, and regret and there is not one single spoken word of dialogue, hardly a scrap of lore or story, and absolutely no hand holding whatsoever. The game gets the hell out of your way and lets you not just play, but experience in a way that nothing else ever has even come close to for me.

Yes, the social experiment side of DayZ is capable of doing things I've never seen in a game. I have a memory of someone knocking me out with a can of beans as I was leaving a house. It's etched in my memory maybe forever, all thoughs emotions make the memory stronger. Shock, fear, anger, then the rush of getting my backpack back when I found a can of peaches in the backpack he swapped with me. Revenge never felt so good.

Now, the spit second that I saw that guy, with his arm raised before he hit me, happened ONE time, and will most likely won't happen again. The memory is clear as day. In contrast, shooting the zombie soilders in DOOM, I can picture every pixel, but only because I did it thousands of times.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

Yes, the social experiment side of DayZ is capable of doing things I've never seen in a game. I have a memory of someone knocking me out with a can of beans as I was leaving a house. It's etched in my memory maybe forever, all thoughs emotions make the memory stronger. Shock, fear, anger, then the rush of getting my backpack back when I found a can of peaches in the backpack he swapped with me. Revenge never felt so good.

Now, the spit second that I saw that guy, with his arm raised before he hit me, happened ONE time, and will most likely won't happen again. The memory is clear as day. In contrast, shooting the zombie soilders in DOOM, I can picture every pixel, but only because I did it thousands of times.

 

Exactly. You get precisely where I'm coming from. A lot of games have told us that they we were being given tons of choices and could make our own story, but DayZ actually fully gives us that. I have several very distinct memories of crazy stuff happening that was completely unexpected and jarring.

 

There was one time where Biohaze and I tried to meet up in Elektro when we spawned in on experimental. I had a glow stick going so he could see me more easily. No one else was on the server and I don't like messing with the gamma so, whenever possible, I use the lighting options available to us. Anyway, I see something chasing him and I assumed it was a zombie and told him so. Then, as I got closer, I realized that it was a person and I told Biohaze to run. The unknown guy definitely had something in his hands but I really couldn't see what it was. I began to run the opposite direction as I turned off my glow stick and then I ran into the police station, closing the door behind me. The only "weapon" I had was a gardening hoe. I put it in my hands and hoped like hell that the dude didn't follow me. Then I heard the door open. I panicked pretty hard at this point. I hadn't even gotten healthy yet. The asshole ran into the very room I had chosen to hide in with an ax raised and I swung like crazy, treating him like a 0.54 zombie (since those were the only things I had ever fought before with melee weapons) and swung, sidestepped, swung, juked some more and before I knew it I was beating the shit out of a dead body. I wasn't sure when to stop swinging. I was actually shaky for a few minutes after from the adrenaline kick. A game made my brain engage a genuine fight or flight response. 

 

These devs know exactly what they are doing.

[Deathlove 2286]

zombie soilders in DOOM, I can picture every pixel, but only because I did it thousands of times.

That game is a far better straight up shooter though so don't try to downplay it as a comparison. It STILL holds up really well to games like this or most other shooters of todays caliber. Its a pure and simple shooter with gore soaked adrenalin that doesn't sugar coat it with other gimmicky mechanics. You play that game on anything but the normal mode of play it becomes a straight up fight for your life.

 

It played really good on Playstation to believe it or not with better sounds, remixed music, and new lvl redesigns.

 

 

Im actually really hopping this port gets reintroduced and the FPS touched up on if they do a future console port of this one.

 

Nostalgic? Maybe but i play quite a bit of the game even today.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Deathlove

[Coheed_IV 381]

That game is a far better straight up shooter though so don't try to downplay it as a comparison.

Right, the reason I brought it up is, because it changed gaming forever. The way you felt playing it was completely different than any other game at the time. It was a revolution. It was more about 3D reality though, sounds stupid now, but it was sold as virtual reality. Which, at the time you just couldn't feel it as smoothly until then.  

 

The way DayZ evokes emotion is unlike any other game I've played. It's a different kind of revolution of course, more about social, emotional, cognitive, attachment, stuff. The industry left the door wide open for this, with autosaving, rewards, entitlement, fetch this dog, blah blah puke.

 

And a playstation couldn't rock white zombie while playing doom  :P dam that was a good year.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[Deathlove 2286]

Right, the reason I brought it up is, because it changed gaming forever. The way you felt playing it was completely different than any other game at the time. It was a revolution. It was more about 3D reality though, sounds stupid now, but it was sold as virtual reality. Which, at the time you just couldn't feel it as smoothly until then.  

 

The way DayZ evokes emotion is unlike any other game I've played. It's a different kind of revolution of course, more about social, emotional, cognitive, attachment, stuff. The industry left the door wide open for this, with autosaving, rewards, entitlement, fetch this dog, blah blah puke.

 

And a playstation couldn't rock white zombie while playing doom  :P dam that was a good year.

Maybe not but you still listened to the sound track right? Its really good and creepy.

[vfxtodd 125]

DayZ has definitely become one of my favorite games. It stands alone in that it can be played in so many different ways. I can't think of any other game that has DayZ's variety of play styles. It's one reason I plan on sticking around to see how it develops.

[DocWolf 146]

Yeah well, "greatest game"...when talking about games (or stuff that I acquire with money in general) I'm a customer first and fan second. I don't dig all the enthusiasm and euphoria around this game, nor the easy "but it's still in development" alibi used for every issue, real or perceived.

 

The game has potential, yes, and I like it a lot. The vision of the development team is interesting, and they're trying to remain true to it. They managed to create a very unique feeling about DayZ, and they're working hard to make it a good game. But, at least in my humble opinion, are working at it in the wrong way...or maybe with the wrong tools, or with the wrong people. Something is definitely wrong, because when after a couple of years of early access (with a massive influx of players and feedback) you still have a product that looks, sounds and plays like a closed alpha something is not going as planned.

 

It's marketed as a survival game, but major mechanics affecting survivability are still under construction, or still have a placeholder status. It's marketed as a zombie game, but zombies/infected are wonky and (again) their mechanics are under construction. It's marketed as a post-apocalyptic game, and the major environment overhauls are related to town creation/rearranging.

 

It has potential, and it could be a very good game...but IMHO that "could" should start to disappear as soon as possible. Rearrange priorities, lay down a plan and stick to it, work on core mechanics first and provide a stable (if a little unappealing first) product. Then work on the frills and make it pretty with different zombies, immersive environment and such. If the "could be good but" status persist for another year DayZ could very well fail at launch.

 

 

EDIT: spelling, my kryptonite

Edited May 8, 2015 by DocWolf

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

Yeah well, "greatest game"...when talking about games (or stuff that I acquire with money in general) I'm a customer first and fan second. I don't dig all the enthusiasm and euphoria around this game, nor the easy "but it's still in development" alibi used for every issue, real or perceived.

 

The game has potential, yes, and I like it a lot. The vision of the development team is interesting, and they're trying to remain true to it. They managed to create a very unique feeling about DayZ, and they're working hard to make it a good game. But, at least in my humble opinion, are working at it in the wrong way...or maybe with the wrong tools, or with the wrong people. Something is definitely wrong, because when after a couple of years of early access (with a massive influx of players and feedback) you still have a product that looks, sounds and plays like a closed alpha something is not going as planned.

 

It's marketed as a survival game, but major mechanics affecting survivability are still under construction, or still have a placeholder status. It's marketed as a zombie game, but zombies/infected are wonky and (again) their mechanics are under construction. It's marketed as a post-apocalyptic game, and the major environment overhauls are related to town creation/rearranging.

 

It has potential, and it could be a very good game...but IMHO that "could" should start to disappear as soon as possible. Rearrange priorities, lay down a plan and stick to it, work on core mechanics first and provide a stable (if a little unappealing first) product. Then work on the frills and make it pretty with different zombies, immersive environment and such. If the "could be good but" status persist for another year DayZ could very well fail at launch.

 

 

EDIT: spelling, my kryptonite

 

I'm beginning to see a pattern here. It's okay. It's not necessarily your fault. It's just that you, and many others like you, have no idea what the devs have actually been doing while it looks like not much has changed on our end. The part that is the fault of average annoyed DayZ customer is that they choose not to read what the devs write. All of what I'm going to touch on here is based on information that the devs have posted right in front of our faces.

 

Building an engine from the ground up is tough, extremely complex, and requires programmers who really are masters of their craft. You know what's even harder than that though? Having to start with an old engine and replace pieces of it one chunk at a time so that you can maintain a playable build for the consumer base of Early Access. Essentially, they took the ancient tech from the mod as a base so people could keep playing it as they made the necessary changes. They already had a difficult task (building a new engine) and in an effort to keep our interest and the project funded as they set about doing this the best way they could, they were forced to start building the new engine around an outdated core. They can't implement a new renderer piecemeal. It's all or nothing. The same can be said of the other major tech changes coming down the pipeline. Once those major hurdles are cleared, the rest of this will snap together by comparison. 

 

So maybe you haven't seen a ton of progress since the mod, but what sense does it make to work on, say, improving the graphics when the current renderer is getting ripped out anyway since it can't do all that they hope to accomplish? And what else could they do in the meantime while the code monkeys bang away at their keyboards with caffeine IV drips hooked up? All they could do is exactly what they have done. Add weapons, add some buildings, work on spawns, and so on. These are all things that can transfer with relative ease regardless of major changes in the engine.

 

I'm sure my optimism will have me labeled as a fanboy either now or in the future, but I really don't feel like that is the case. Am I a little biased in their favor? Absolutely. But it isn't blind bias. I'm looking at the same exact stuff that you have access to and drawing from my own education and knowledge to come to a very different conclusion. Everything I see from BI simply makes sense. I just can't help but try to show people that things are not anywhere near as bad as some of you seem to think. I know that you know that DayZ is in alpha, but do you really know what that actually means? Do you actually understand how monumental of a task it is that BI has undertaken here? In what way do you think they could have done better? You want them to get it done faster? What about when faster means more likely broken? After all, if they rush the extraction and upgrades of the various components of the engine, what else could we really expect?

Edited May 8, 2015 by ColdAtrophy

[DocWolf 146]

I'm beginning to see a pattern here. It's okay. It's not necessarily your fault. It's just that you, and many others like you, have no idea what the devs have actually been doing while it looks like not much has changed on our end.

The part that is the fault of average annoyed DayZ customer is that they choose not to read what the devs write

Well, you know what? No. Not at all.

While I agree that many don't bother to read anything about the game (not even the disclaimer "early access - work in progress") before complaining, we're not speaking of the majority. Saying "you don't see the bigger picture" is the new version of the old "it's still in development" I've already quoted: simply an unconscious trick to avoid uncomfortable questions.

 

 

All of what I'm going to touch on here is based on information that the devs have posted right in front of our faces.

 

Building an engine from the ground up is tough, extremely complex, and requires programmers who really are masters of their craft. You know what's even harder than that though? Having to start with an old engine and replace pieces of it one chunk at a time so that you can maintain a playable build for the consumer base of Early Access. Essentially, they took the ancient tech from the mod as a base so people could keep playing it as they made the necessary changes. They already had a difficult task (building a new engine) and in an effort to keep our interest and the project funded as they set about doing this the best way they could, they were forced to start building the new engine around an outdated core. They can't implement a new renderer piecemeal. It's all or nothing. The same can be said of the other major tech changes coming down the pipeline. Once those major hurdles are cleared, the rest of this will snap together by comparison

Yeah, I've read that. The major tech issue is having an outdated engine being phased out piece by piece in the middle of the product development while you phase in the new engine (that is still a work in progress). I work in a technology consulting firm, management area. When the devs write that stuff down as an explanation (a perfectly sensible one, mind you) all I see is this: we planned the prodcut and started development, then major issues popped up and we were forced to rotate in another engine. We made some pretty major mistakes during the design of the product. It happens, even the best sometimes have problems or underestimate issues. But saying "hey we're working on it" doesn't stop me, as a customer, to suggest them "yeah, well, work harder and faster because you're not exactly doing a good impression".

 

 

I know that you know that DayZ is in alpha, but do you really know what that actually means?

Well, yes, I know what Alpha means in SW development. Even in game development. Even more so, I know that Early Access products NEED funds to thrive...so it's not a strange thing that DayZ is still a work in progress. But Early Access also need feedback, and labelling everything as "they're working hard on it" is not exactly an useful feedback. Broken core mechanics? They're working on it. Of course they are, but that's a major issue and they HAVE to know we consider it such. Pretty bland immersive environment? They're working on it. Again, they are...but that's again another major issue, and they HAVE to receive that kind of feedback. And the list could go on for a long time.

 

What about when faster means more likely broken?

More broken than current core mechanics? Just being ironic, of course.

As a general note: I really like the game, and I don't regret the euro I spent on downloading it from Steam. But as a customer, I feel it's conterproductive being too emotional towards something that will be sold...the skeptics tribe (not the haters one) IMHO are providing very useful feedback to the Devs. We can discuss emotionally if we're talking about the game in general terms, but if someone ask me a feedback I can't be too emotionally involved and start throwing excuses around. The Dev teams are working on a product, something that is going to be sold. They don't need helping hands on their shoulders, they need people pointing out problems and issues. Otherwise, as I've already said, the risk is giving them the wrong kind of feedback and see DayZ fail at launch.

Edited May 8, 2015 by DocWolf

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

Well, you know what? No. Not at all.

While I agree that many don't bother to read anything about the game (not even the disclaimer "early access - work in progress") before complaining, we're not speaking of the majority. Saying "you don't see the bigger picture" is the new version of the old "it's still in development" I've already quoted: simply an unconscious trick to avoid uncomfortable questions.

 

 

Yeah, I've read that. The major tech issue is having an outdated engine being phased out piece by piece in the middle of the product development while you phase in the new engine (that is still a work in progress). I work in a technology consulting firm, management area. When the devs write that stuff down as an explanation (a perfectly sensible one, mind you) all I see is this: we planned the prodcut and started development, then major issues popped up and we were forced to rotate in another engine. We made some pretty major mistakes during the design of the product. It happens, even the best sometimes have problems or underestimate issues. But saying "hey we're working on it" doesn't stop me, as a customer, to suggest them "yeah, well, work harder and faster because you're not exactly doing a good impression".

 

 

Well, yes, I know what Alpha means in SW development. Even in game development. Even more so, I know that Early Access products NEED funds to thrive...so it's not a strange thing that DayZ is still a work in progress. But Early Access also need feedback, and labelling everything as "they're working hard on it" is not exactly an useful feedback. Broken core mechanics? They're working on it. Of course they are, but that's a major issue and they HAVE to know we consider it such. Pretty bland immersive environment? They're working on it. Again, they are...but that's again another major issue, and they HAVE to receive that kind of feedback. And the list could go on for a long time.

 

More broken than current core mechanics? Just being ironic, of course.

As a general note: I really like the game, and I don't regret the euro I spent on downloading it from Steam. But as a customer, I feel it's conterproductive being too emotional towards something that will be sold...the skeptics tribe (not the haters one) IMHO are providing very useful feedback to the Devs. We can discuss emotionally if we're talking about the game in general terms, but if someone ask me a feedback I can't be too emotionally involved and start throwing excuses around. The Dev teams are working on a product, something that is going to be sold. They don't need helping hands on their shoulders, they need people pointing out problems and issues. Otherwise, as I've already said, the risk is giving them the wrong kind of feedback and see DayZ fail at launch.

 

I still disagree with a lot of what you said, but I feel like I made my point, you made yours, and no one had to resort to ad hominems or have posts hidden by mods. For the internet, that's something special. I disagree with you on such a fundamental level that I don't see any way of continuing the conversation. We basically disagree on everything that has happened since day one. You see this as some massive blunder that you paid for and I see this as the culmination of all that games are capable of but have not yet reached.

 

Perhaps I do sometimes get emotional about video games. This is my passion. I eat, shit, and breathe video games every single day of my life and I am not in the slightest bit ashamed of it. If I'm not playing, I'm working on my degree in Game Design. I'm no expert but I've demonstrated to myself and to others that I do have the fundamental creative capacity and background in the medium to not only be able to create games that are fun and worthwhile but to analyze games in a way that gets to the very core of what makes them tick (not talking about programming at all here). Based on everything I have seen, this game is on track to become legendary. The biggest hits are never wholly unique. They are never formed of completely new mechanics the world has never seen before. They tend to be an excellent combination of things we've probably seen many times over in other games but not in this particular execution, with this particular design style, with this theme, with this set of mechanics, etc. Maybe DayZ doesn't do tons of things that no game has ever done before in a technical sense, but what it does do is combine many things that we have never seen together in quite this way. Not even on PC. Can you imagine what a console gamer is going to do when he finds this game in his PSN store and plays it for the first time? It's gonna spread like wildfire. The console market is going to eat this game up like nothing we've seen in a long time and that's because the consoles have never been able to experience anything even remotely close to this. The console market is so stale and stagnant that a game of this size, scope, and complexity with this level of replay value will have people throwing bills at their TV screens and screaming for more.

 

You can suggest I'm tricking myself if you like "to avoid uncomfortable questions", but I can say, with utmost certainty, that I do not arrive at conclusions without careful considerations of all sides of a situation. There are no "uncomfortable questions" for me to ask because, despite my interest in this game and the fact that I want it to succeed, my happiness does not hinge on the success or failure of DayZ. I was just too drunk to play (for the first time in years) when I posted the OP and wanted to talk to other people on the DayZ forums who might feel just as excited as I am about the future. Silly me. I can't find any reason to support the negativity I see around the internet towards these devs and this game. People miss the fact that there is an opposite to the hype train and it can be just as alluring and intoxicating AND without any real merit whatsoever.