Weapons that degrade require far too much cleaning

[infiltrator 275]

I don't know if you've tested it guys, but from what I can tell so far, the degrading weapons are the M4 and the AUG. And let me tell you, they both go down a level for like, every 30 bullets, which is quite insane if you ask me. You should be forced to carry multiple cleaning kits if you happen to be engaging targets often. I was just at Mishkino and by the time I downed 3 guys, my M4 was badly damaged by that time, I didn't even unload a single STANAG into them. And then we've got the rest of the weapons that don't get damaged at all..

 

Anyway, all I'm saying is that a prolonged fight shouldn't permanently ruin your weapon. If it went from one status to another in like 100 bullets that'd be ok I guess.

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

Haven't tested this out myself because I stick to the good Ole Mosin n Shotty duo, but from the sound of things, this is probably just to test it out. I know this is the sort of things devs do, just like when we got shoe degradation. Things break really quick to make sure the stages and whatnot are working.

[Mullraugh 1151]

Every time you shoot a rifle, the carbon builds up inside. If you leave it be, the carbon could eventually crystallize and disable your firearm.

 

Realistically, you should clean your weapon after every use, and every time it makes contact with water, since it will rust and be crappy.

 

 

Cleaning includes;

 

-removing carbon and debris from the bolt and the barrel,

 

-cleaning away rust formation

 

-oiling your rifle up so it's not so sluggish

 

-cleaning the exterior for tip top performance.

 

 

Usually this process, for a rifle like the AK-101, would take about 2 hours.

 

So just be happy all you have to do is right-click

[BCBasher 2465]

Every time you shoot a rifle, the carbon builds up inside. If you leave it be, the carbon could eventually crystallize and disable your firearm.

Realistically, you should clean your weapon after every use, and every time it makes contact with water, since it will rust and be crappy.

Cleaning includes;

-removing carbon and debris from the bolt and the barrel,

-cleaning away rust formation

-oiling your rifle up so it's not so sluggish

-cleaning the exterior for tip top performance.

Usually this process, for a rifle like the AK-101, would take about 2 hours.

So just be happy all you have to do is right-click

2 hours to clean a Russian ar?

Try under 10 minutes.

[BCBasher 2465]

[Mullraugh 1151]

2 hours to clean a Russian ar?

Try under 10 minutes.

 

Imagine each of these pieces coated in rust and carbon because you neglected to clean the weapon after every use, or just couldn't find the time due to distractions.

 

 

if it takes me an hour to get THIS little fucker pristine for inspection,

imagine how long it would take to clean an entire rifle. Let alone a foreign rifle most of us have never used before.

 

 

 

-video-

 

field stripping and cleaning are two completely different things. Plus, that's not even an AK-47

Edited March 17, 2015 by mullraugh

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

I'm no firearms expert but from what I understand the AK in particular should be extremely robust.

 

I dunno.... http://weaponsman.com/?p=12534

 

Maybe AK's and a few other "simpler mechanism" firearms (mosin, derringer, and dbl barrel, comes to mind perhaps) will eventually be balanced out in beta to be more robust than others.

 

Anyway, it's nice to hear they are testing this for future use!

[infiltrator 275]

Oh God I knew it wouldn't take long for the gun nuts. Look, it's really simple: you're missing the point. If this game tried to be realistic to that level, half the shit would be broken.

Here's whats up : 'is it logical, from a gameplay perspective, for a gun to go from pristine to ruined in 100 bullets?'. The answer is NO.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Infiltrator

[Mullraugh 1151]

I'm no firearms expert but from what I understand the AK in particular should be extremely robust.

 

I dunno.... http://weaponsman.com/?p=12534

 

Maybe AK's and a few other "simpler mechanism" firearms (mosin, derringer, and dbl barrel, comes to mind perhaps) will eventually be balanced out in beta to be more robust than others.

 

Anyway, it's nice to hear they are testing this for future use!

 

 

Oh yeah. AK's are the best weapons in the world when it comes to wear, tear and abuse.

 

Most of what I said earlier about cleaning and all that really just applies to the M4 and other weapons like it,  since they require more maintenance than a whiny 12 year old girl.

[gibonez 3633]

A dirty weapon should just be less accurate thats about it and the effects of fouling should happen quite quickly.

 

Permanent damage from shooting however should not be a thing.

[BCBasher 2465]

Imagine each of these pieces coated in rust and carbon because you neglected to clean the weapon after every use, or just couldn't find the time due to distractions.

if it takes me an hour to get THIS little fucker pristine for inspection,

imagine how long it would take to clean an entire rifle. Let alone a foreign rifle most of us have never used before.

field stripping and cleaning are two completely different things. Plus, that's not even an AK-47

Uhm yeah it was a Wasr ak47 a Romanian clone. Russian military rifles don't give a fuck about care or cleanliness either. They chrome line all the important parts so even corrosive primed mil ammo isn't a big deal anymore. You do what that guy did in 9 minutes without the talking swab the barrel and gas tube whipe the other parts with solvent back to killing.

[stielhandgranate 480]

Permanent damage from shooting however should not be a thing.

 

Agree. I've never seen an M16A2 or M4 be deadlined just by failing to clean it. We really need a second status for guns.

 

Clean,Dirty,Very Dirty,Unserviceable

 

Allow unserviceable guns to be repaired to "clean" condition with cleaning kits. Maybe allow rags to repair from very dirty to dirty.

[stielhandgranate 480]

Uhm yeah it was a Wasr ak47 a Romanian clone. Russian military rifles don't give a fuck about care or cleanliness either. They chrome line all the important parts so even corrosive primed mil ammo isn't a big deal anymore. You do what that guy did in 9 minutes without the talking swab the barrel and gas tube whipe the other parts with solvent back to killing.

 

Looks like a stamped receiver, so AKM as AK-47s are milled. Also as robust as AK pattern rifles are they still need a bore brush and the gas piston to be cleared of carbon and contaminates. Chrome parts does not make it self cleaning, just less friction and easier cleaning.

[gibonez 3633]

Agree. I've never seen an M16A2 or M4 be deadlined just by failing to clean it. We really need a second status for guns.

 

Clean,Dirty,Very Dirty,Unserviceable

 

Allow unserviceable guns to be repaired to "clean" condition with cleaning kits. Maybe allow rags to repair from very dirty to dirty.

 

I was thinking something more along the lines of two completely different statuses. for example.

 

Barrel quality : pristine - ruined

 

Weapon condition = Clean - extremely dirty.

 

Barrel quality is a random factor that determines the weapons base accuracy and cannot be changed. Offers a small variance in accuracy in modern weapons and large variance in historically inaccurate weapons.

 

Weapon condition is a dynamic condition of the gun that can be fixed by cleaning the rifle.

[SaveMeJebus 164]

You can put hundreds of rounds through an AR and still not have any effective accuracy degradation NOR would you have to clean the thing after every stinking use in an SHTF situation,  but they definitely do need regular (probably daily) cleaning so lets not look to impose any unrealistic maintenance in game.  That being said, values are always being changed at this point in development so its pretty safe to assume that these values are out of wack either as an oversight or for testing purposes and hopefully will get a tweak soon.

[Jfiles 439]

Ok. This shit got way to technical. Dont know much about guns....But ya.......Repairs! Make em after every magazine use! Ya!

[trev186 389]

A dirty weapon should just be less accurate thats about it and the effects of fouling should happen quite quickly.

 

Permanent damage from shooting however should not be a thing.

Agree I think the larger issue is that they label everything in the same bad condition system...

Some items like guns should have various statuses

The pristine-ruined status should only be if the weapon takes damage does it degrade.

Dirty/clean should be statuses that can be adjusted via cleaning kits.

Other items such as food should have a different system such as rotten to fresh.

The bigger issue for me is how fast the suppressors degrade....

Good grief a pristine suppressor east degrades to ruined after like 3 mags. Not to mention I can find 10 ak 101s for every suppressor east.

Need some way to restore weapon attatchments too.

I think a workshop that is static such as an industrial building should offer tools to repair guns and attatchments to worn similiar to the medical tents fixing breaks

[Calvin Candie 189]

I say take out this crap out of the game completely.

It is hard enough to hunt, maintain my garden, collect water for the base, find plastic bottles in the first place, keep the base safe.

Besides. What is stoping a troll from degrading weapons on purpose after finding them. Pops in a mag and wastes an ak101.

I am all for realism but weapon cleaning kits? Its just jumpimg through hoops and no realism since actuall automatic weapon would take an hour or two to clean! And civilians would not even know how to clean it.

So...have some mercy...I do not want to deal with guns my entire time

[Jex 1104]

2 hours to clean a Russian ar?

Try under 10 minutes.

 

LOL I was going to say - I could clean an SA80 in hardly any time - never 2 hours!

[Jex 1104]

Imagine each of these pieces coated in rust and carbon because you neglected to clean the weapon after every use, or just couldn't find the time due to distractions.

 

 

if it takes me an hour to get THIS little fucker pristine for inspection,

imagine how long it would take to clean an entire rifle. Let alone a foreign rifle most of us have never used before.

 

 

 

 

field stripping and cleaning are two completely different things. Plus, that's not even an AK-47

 

Oh yes, if they were that dirty then yes though there should never be a reason your rifle gets to that condition :)

[Jex 1104]

Guys,

 

They're testing the mechanic - it will not be like this in a month or two so just relax! :)

[cmeng12@jcu.edu 15]

No need to add a full additional mechanic. Just remove the ability for guns to become "ruined" and run the system as an in-place dirty mechanic.

 

Pristine = shoots well

Worn = carbon buildup after 100+ shots

damaged = carbon buildup after n shots / being subjected to water

badly damaged = multiple of above, 2n

 

Or make it such that the only chance for a gun to be ruined is for it to be "hit" in the hitbox for that weapon. 

 

PS - 

 

I'm a slow cleaner. My sig P229 takes me ~30m when cleaning in an expeditious manner, and my  Stag / DPMS 15 typically took around an hour+ if I really took the time to white-glove the sonofabitch.

 

-C

[BCBasher 2465]

I shoot corrosive mil ammo in my SKS and haven't cleaned it in two years. I put bullets in pull the trigger and it works. You think the mud people who use Russian guns clean them ever?

[stielhandgranate 480]

I shoot corrosive mil ammo in my SKS and haven't cleaned it in two years. I put bullets in pull the trigger and it works. You think the mud people who use Russian guns clean them ever?

 

They do.

[crazykage 1063]

One week, while I was in the USMC:

Went to the range for qualification.

Day 1: Fired the KD course (Known Distance) 3 times (at the time, running the course once amounted to 100 rounds). Weapon did not jam once during the entire day. Cleaned rifle after returning to the armory.

Day 2: Ran course another 3 times. Same story. Did NOT clean the rifle after returning to the armory.

Day 3: Ran course 3 times with same, uncleaned, weapon. Weapon did not jam or fail to fire. Cleaned weapon thoroughly after returning to armory.

Day 4: Pre-Qual. Ran course 2 times. Accuracy was slightly lower than previous days. Did not clean weapon after returning to armory.

Day 5: Qualification day. Ran course 1 time. Accuracy was best out of entire week. Scored expert. Only missed two shots out of the entire course, specifically during the 300 meter rapid fire portion. Scored in the black with all other shots at 2 and 5 hundred lines. Cleaned rifle for inspection after returning to armory.

Moral of the story: a typical rifle, in particular, the US M series of assault rifle, can fire MANY rounds before jamming. Usually, jamming or other failure is a result of firing so many rounds the weapon overheats and fails, or rust or foreign material building up (such as the problems experienced by us forces in veitnam, or the constant presence of fine dust in Iraq). A failure to fire caused by a buildup of carbon takes a long time and a lot of ammo and a LOT of neglect. I knew Marines who believed that over cleaning a rifle could actually CAUSE failure on the range, and thus, would not clean it at all until after final qualification and still not experience any jamming. Personally, I preferred a middle ground, allowing a slight buildup of carbon. I did, however, also use a healthy amount of CLP (lube, for those not familiar).

Your weapon should not become badly damaged after firing less than 300 rounds. That should take over 3000 to accomplish.