When will the Sway be fixed?

[Jex 1104]

1) If you are sprinting through a grass-covered/root-strewn field or hillside, then yes, you should have the possibility to sprain/break your ankle. Don't want that to happen? Walk. Easy fix, and it just might slow down the constantly-sprinting playerbase.

 

2) Don't want to catch malaria (even though malaria is mostly a tropical/semi-tropical disease)? Stay out of the swamps, and stay within/impregnate your clothing with campfire smoke, or use bugspray. I do agree with  you on this, however.

 

3) In reality, those with chronic diseases requiring regular medication would be among the first to die. Sad but true. So, your point is not very applicable to Day Z, especially if the game takes place even a couple of months 'after the end", as insulin has to be kept refrigerated. 

 

4) Yes, firearms jam, which I would LOVE to see implemented. To avoid this, fire in semi-auto or short bursts, and clean your weapon regularly.

 

5)Yeah, and? It is realistic. Sometimes you just get a shit draw. Pull the charging handle and try again. Problem solved.

 

Remember, Day Z was originally intended to be the "anti-game". The devs are trying for as much realism as possible, and "authenticity" when not. Sprinting everywhere, with fully-automatic-firearms-that-never-jam blazing? Not all that authentic.

 

hold on a minute - number 5 - he says "identical" gun. No two guns are identical or fire the same.

[trev186 389]

I don't think it should be fixed but I think a couple features should be added which temporarily improve sway.

1. Adrenaline.. This is proven and natural and should be a state that comes into play when in combat situations briefly.. When fired upon by others.. i think as adrenaline state wears off your aim should deteriorate and become worse as calm back down and your body catches up with the exhaustion.

2. I always liked in the original MGS how you could take dazepam (I think that was what it was called) to improve your weapon sway. It was some sort of muscle relaxer. I think in dayz some sort of drug should be able to be used with a similiar effect. Add a risk for overdosing though and also make it so it limits player movement (can't sprint or roll let's say)

[Khadaji 12]

The "sway" as it is currently in the game is highly exaggerated over what happens in real life. That's even the case after your toon has calmed down and sway is minimized. I often comment that I can shoot better and with less sway while pissed drunk, and that is no exaggeration.

[CJFlint 357]

Sway in current day z is way over done. I have been around fire arms my hole life, and was in the military. I will tell you that from my prospective sway is no where near that bad lol. But there is factors too. Like holding breath bone support, using a sling for added support ECT ECT to drastically cut down on sway in rl. Day Z SA is not realistic at all. Its loosely based on reality, sort of a warped reality. In fact I would say it shouldn't be used for educational proposes what so ever. There's to many things that don't reflect reality even minus the zombies. That's why sometimes I have a hard time getting the "purists" in game. Purists to what? Warped reality and warped realism...give me a br

[blowurselfup 54]

The fact is - the sway will be balanced eventually

 

Another fact is - weapon sway 'in real life' is determined by the shooters skill level and so many other variables

[blowurselfup 54]

 

Every step you take, dice roll for ankle damage. 

 

Your character might just be wandering around and catch malaria because they got bit by a mosquito. Dice roll every ten seconds for malaria mosquitos.

 

Let's have another random dice roll for if you have diabetes and require insulin as well. Diabetics won't be too well off in the apocalypse. Dice roll for diabetes upon spawning.

 

The game isn't real enough, yet. No, we have to go further. There's a dice roll every single time you fire a weapon as well. Guns can jam in real life. Even pristine ones. Dice roll for weapon malfunction. 

 

That is...assuming your ammunition even works. You know sometimes those pesky things just won't fire off. Dice roll for ammunition malfunction. 

 

 

Wow! Your game sounds AWESOME! B)

[battlerhd 116]

After shooting a rifle today with a real scope on for the first time the difference is insane, I was working all day on a building site so that's lots of heavy lifting ext, we had a little shooting competition at a friends house after. We were all fully standing and when I was shooting It was more shaky than swaying off from left to right. Right now the aim after even jogging for a few seconds is rediculous in Dayz, also when crouching the affect of sway should be reduced massivly because in real life when you are crouching and shooting at the the same time you're resting your elbow of the arm that mostly controls your aim on your leg, making it much more steady no mater how much you have ran. I'm not saying running would not affect your aim at all if you were to crouch after, but the affect would not be nearly as much. In dayz at the moment its ridiculously inaccurate and something that should be up for change in the near future.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

I prefer the weapon sway with the mosin and what not. Let's be real here, mosins aren't accurate in real life. It's an old gun and not a sniper rifle, they just put a scope on it and there you go.

 

I figure they will make sway more realistic when they add more long range guns with scopes and just adjust accuracy of the rifle accordingly.

A good mosin nagant can be fairly accurate, but there aren't many perfectly preserved 91/30's knocking around anymore, for the obvious reasons of them being extremely old, military service rifles that have seen heavy use. I'd argue that most Mosin nagants that show real issues with accuracy are near completely shot out, arthritic old guns. After all, plenty of Russian snipers had good success with PEM & PU scopes during the second world war, i think that alone proves the gun itself isn't an inaccurate design. Even accounting for barrel damage I think you'd be hard pressed to find a Mosin that isn't accurate out to 300 meters which is the limit of

ranging for the PU scope currently ingame & Ironsights anyway. I discount the LRS because I don't believe it should mount on the Mosin.

 

I'd like to see condition effecting accuracy and the majority of older firearms, such as the mosins spawing in worn or damaged condition, I think that's a better solution than the current and IMO unrealistic weapon sway. I'd also like to see weapon steadying on rocks or other solid structures like walls, it has been done in ARMA mods and I'd love to see something like that added in DayZ.

Edited March 17, 2015 by TheScruffyBandit

[Bororm 1156]

So you disagree with bullet dispersion even though it happens in RL?

 

As far as gameplay goes, I'd much rather the guns just shoot straight and the things that affect your accuracy are sway etc.

 

I don't want to get in a fight and lose because my gun decided to shoot a foot to the left even though I had my sights straight on him, and my opponent's didn't.  That just feels bad.

[mercules 1290]

It's not about who is sneakier, smarter, more skilled, more intuitive, more clever...it's really about who has the luckiest dice.

 

Well, you have to admit that even with random occurrences the sneakier, more skilled, more intuitive, and clever person would still have an advantage and would be more likely to adapt when random chance threw them a curve ball. See, an actually skilled player is going to account for all the crap that could go wrong. They are going to have a plan B and a plan to get out of there should the worst happen. I laugh at the people saying, "Randomness removes skill." No, it moves the skill bar from pure reflexes to brains and adaptability. 

 

You are, by the way, playing a game FULL of randomness that can and will kill you. Did that location spawn food/guns/ammo that you desperately need to survive? Did a truck spawn here? Did someone else spawn here right before you and jump in that truck and is now about to run you over? Did a zombie just respawn while you were bandaging from killing another zombie and start running at you? Is it about to rain and freeze you before you find any waterproof gear? Will you have to stop your search for the food/drink/weapons you need to survive to light a fire and get warm so you don't freeze to death, or are you about to find a heatpack that will get you by? Will your ammo be destroyed by a zombie/bullet hit leaving you with and empty gun?

 

 

Life is a series of events both good and bad and how you deal with them is the important part. Why should a video game based off how people deal with adverse events be any different?

[Rags! 1966]

 

Blah blah blah

 

Because there's a difference between intuitive randomness and punishing randomness, obviously.

 

Walking down a road and randomly spraining your ankle is punishing, but a player knows the possibilities of the randomness of the loot system. Plus, lots of the examples you listed are not completed mechanics, like zombie respawning and other survival elements. Some of the examples you mentioned aren't even random at all, so I have no idea why you mentioned them. Zombies hitting you, searching for food and drink, lighting a fire, truck spawning...these examples have elements of randomness in them, but every one of them can be combated by a player's actions in some way. 

 

That's why adding random bullshit into a game like this in which the player has literally no control over is stupid, even if it is realistic. DayZ can be challenging and difficult without the player being fucked over by some random condition that he had no chance at avoiding because the computer rolled the dice and he got the short end of the stick because the computer said so. 

[Jex 1104]

As far as gameplay goes, I'd much rather the guns just shoot straight and the things that affect your accuracy are sway etc.

 

I don't want to get in a fight and lose because my gun decided to shoot a foot to the left even though I had my sights straight on him, and my opponent's didn't.  That just feels bad.

 

Right, so you want it to be nothing like real life then. Also, nothing shoots a foot to the left at the ranges you're probably shooting at and if you're shooting further, don't use shitty Russian ww2 era guns to do it.

[Jex 1104]

After shooting a rifle today with a real scope on for the first time the difference is insane, I was working all day on a building site so that's lots of heavy lifting ext, we had a little shooting competition at a friends house after. We were all fully standing and when I was shooting It was more shaky than swaying off from left to right. Right now the aim after even jogging for a few seconds is rediculous in Dayz, also when crouching the affect of sway should be reduced massivly because in real life when you are crouching and shooting at the the same time you're resting your elbow of the arm that mostly controls your aim on your leg, making it much more steady no mater how much you have ran. I'm not saying running would not affect your aim at all if you were to crouch after, but the affect would not be nearly as much. In dayz at the moment its ridiculously inaccurate and something that should be up for change in the near future.

 

You never rest your "elbow" on anything, you rest your forearm ;)

[Jex 1104]

[mercules 1290]

Walking down a road and randomly spraining your ankle is punishing, but a player knows the possibilities of the randomness of the loot system.

Players also know the possibilities of weapon sway and good players will pause in cover to reduce sway, check frequently for broken arms and splint them, and can even time a shot when swaying by being patient enough to watch the sway and fire when things line up instead of blasting away. If we could randomly sprain our ankles then good players would carry splints or the materials to craft them to counter that randomness.

 

Zombies hitting you, searching for food and drink, lighting a fire, truck spawning...these examples have elements of randomness in them, but every one of them can be combated by a player's actions in some way.

That would be the point I was making. Sway can be combated. Knowing your weapon that is not in pristine condition and will be slightly less accurate can be combated by just knowing that and compensating for it. Most likely a worn gun wouldn't have lost much accuracy but a damaged and badly damaged gun WILL and at that point a player can counter this by finding one of those RANDOM SPAWNED weapon cleaning kit. How many times have you found something like the really rare mag for a pistol you often spot and then not found the pistol at all the places that normally spawn one? I have found 2 75 round mags for an AKM and then hit EVERY barrack and the prison looking for one on a server when it was empty and had just restarted for an AKM with a few friends. We found AK74s, AK74Us, and AK101s equipping everyone but not one AKM. These things happen, it's random.

 

DayZ can be challenging and difficult without the player being fucked over by some random condition that he had no chance at avoiding because the computer rolled the dice and he got the short end of the stick because the computer said so.

Obviously no one is proposing there is a random chance of a meteor falling out of the sky and striking you in the head without warning. Certain randomness, when the player will be aware it exists, is not always a bad thing. Rain is random. Loot is random although certain locations only ever have the chance of spawning one of a grouping of things. Combined they can easily lead to the death of a player if they are spawned in, it starts raining, and they can't find a raincoat or other waterproof gear or a means to warm up.

[Rags! 1966]

Knowing your weapon that is not in pristine condition and will be slightly less accurate can be combated by just knowing that and compensating for it. 

 

 

You can't compensate for inaccuracy when the Pristine weapon is inaccurate to a degree you cannot intuitively measure. If inaccuracy of a Pristine weapon is something that is randomized, then the skill becomes simply hoping luck goes your way when you pull the trigger. That's not skill. 

 

Now, if you have a rifle that is inaccurate that shoots consistently inaccurate...that's a whole different story. That's something a player can actually intuitively counter and compensate for. But if the inaccuracy of the weapon is some randomly generated deviation from where you aim...that's something that should be left on the cutting room floor. 

Edited March 18, 2015 by Rags

[xalienax 621]

You can't compensate for inaccuracy when the Pristine weapon is inaccurate to a degree you cannot intuitively measure. If inaccuracy of a Pristine weapon is something that is randomized, then the skill becomes simply hoping luck goes your way when you pull the trigger. That's not skill. 

 

Now, if you have a rifle that is inaccurate that shoots consistently inaccurate...that's a whole different story. That's something a player can actually intuitively counter and compensate for. But if the inaccuracy of the weapon is some randomly generated deviation from where you aim...that's something that should be left on the cutting room floor. 

This. and with that said, Worn and lightly damaged weapons should we way more common then 'pristine' (which i would assume to be basically "never-used" condition)

[mercules 1290]

You can't compensate for inaccuracy when the Pristine weapon is inaccurate to a degree you cannot intuitively measure. If inaccuracy of a Pristine weapon is something that is randomized, then the skill becomes simply hoping luck goes your way when you pull the trigger. That's not skill. 

 

Now, if you have a rifle that is inaccurate that shoots consistently inaccurate...that's a whole different story. That's something a player can actually intuitively counter and compensate for. But if the inaccuracy of the weapon is some randomly generated deviation from where you aim...that's something that should be left on the cutting room floor. 

If the spread is minimal on a pristine weapon, say about  20-30cm at 800m then you compensate by aiming for central body mass and NOT trying for a head shot. Now in RL wind and humidity can alter a bullet's flight path by that much and without the proper equipment and calculations you can't compensate for that.

[gibonez 3633]

A good mosin nagant can be fairly accurate, but there aren't many perfectly preserved 91/30's knocking around anymore, for the obvious reasons of them being extremely old, military service rifles that have seen heavy use. I'd argue that most Mosin nagants that show real issues with accuracy are near completely shot out, arthritic old guns. After all, plenty of Russian snipers had good success with PEM & PU scopes during the second world war, i think that alone proves the gun itself isn't an inaccurate design. Even accounting for barrel damage I think you'd be hard pressed to find a Mosin that isn't accurate out to 300 meters which is the limit of

ranging for the PU scope currently ingame & Ironsights anyway. I discount the LRS because I don't believe it should mount on the Mosin.

 

I'd like to see condition effecting accuracy and the majority of older firearms, such as the mosins spawing in worn or damaged condition, I think that's a better solution than the current and IMO unrealistic weapon sway. I'd also like to see weapon steadying on rocks or other solid structures like walls, it has been done in ARMA mods and I'd love to see something like that added in DayZ.

 

Weapon resting might be a possibility in the future, Arma 3 is getting it after all. I can't see Dayz not getting it also.

 

Weapon accuracy being affected by Barrel temperature, barrel condition might be a great way to change the weapon behavior in game so that engagement distances are indeed closer to reality.

 

Perhaps we will no longer see silly 1300m mosin shots and as a result of realistic weapon accuracy, ballistics and gameplay mechanics even a 500m shot is quite difficult.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

Sway should stay and will probably be tweaked more than once in the future.

 

I'm pretty sure jamming due to degradation of weapon condition and ammo condition is planned or has been discussed by devs.

 

I'd rather simply keep weapon damage down to possible jamming personally. It just sounds overcomplicated to have an inaccuracy factor.

 

Are we going to want improperly sighted guns in the game as well?

 

Should we have to test the accuracy of each firearm and for some adjust the sights?

[gibonez 3633]

ally. It just sounds overcomplicated to have an inaccuracy factor.

 

Are we going to want improperly sighted guns in the game as well?

 

Should we have to test the accuracy of each firearm and for some adjust the sights?

 

 

I would be ok with the sights not always being dead on accurate. It is unrealistic to have every single weapon zeroed perfectly where the irons are as in reality most arent they are slightly off.

 

This is especially true of Ak and mosin rifles ak rifles in particular are notorious for having canted front sight posts.

 

 

 

Having misaligned sights, having the weapons of the same platform have varying degrees of accuracy depending on what weapon they are and condition are all realistic features that would spice up the gameplay and make scavenging and looting even more important.

 

It would put an emphasis on every single gun you pick up being unique just like real life , and no longer would people feel completely satisfied by picking up any gun and going straight to pvp now looting would be more intricate.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

I'm not 100% opposed to this concept really (varied accuracy).

 

I personally would be willing to learn how to dial in/adjust sights if I had to of course, but I'm not so sure we'll see DayZ dev go there.

 

It would be impressive to see in implementation, that's for sure.

 

We would need different levels of pristine I guess or as someone suggested a new class of conditions for firearms alone?

 

Guns known to be of highly varied quality (mosin) could be labelled as pristine yet have poor accuracy AND poorly aligned sights needing adjusting, compensating, and more regular maintenance.

 

Guns known to be of higher quality would be more reliable and accurate due to their being better built originally.

 

Is there precedence for this level of authenticity for firearms in a game?

Edited March 19, 2015 by BioHaze

[sneakydudes 278]

no thats why they added a huge 6 foot sway =D

[gibonez 3633]

I'm not 100% opposed to this concept really (varied accuracy).

 

I personally would be willing to learn how to dial in/adjust sights if I had to of course, but I'm not so sure we'll see DayZ dev go there.

 

It would be impressive to see in implementation, that's for sure.

 

We would need different levels of pristine I guess or as someone suggested a new class of conditions for firearms alone?

 

Guns known to be of highly varied quality (mosin) could be labelled as pristine yet have poor accuracy AND poorly aligned sights needing adjusting, compensating, and more regular maintenance.

 

Guns known to be of higher quality would be more reliable and accurate due to their being better built originally.

 

Is there precedence for this level of authenticity for firearms in a game?

 

 

 

First off, we have the mentioned full randomization of weapon spawn configurations. This ranges from attachment configuration, quantity, type, and condition. When functional, each weapon you find should be as unique as possible per that item type. Be it the chance to spawn with a magazine, potential attachment, overall weapon condition, and so on. This expands upon the uniqueness of each persons kit in-game, and ensures that very few two firearms are exactly the same. Who knows, you might get lucky and find that M1911 Engraved you always wanted, -with- a clip!

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/222617-status-report-19-mar-15/

 

From the latest dev blog so it looks like they might go to this route.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

I actually meant to quote this in my post... thanks!

 

:P

 

We'll see just how far they take it....