In my opinion this game should focus on melee combat

[sneakydudes 278]

Boring.

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

Chivalry is a good example for melee mechanics even though there are some small issues especially if you want it to be authentic (Chivalry doesn't):

1. Attacks are usually overly telegraphed and swung. In Chivalry it has the consequence of lots of players hitting lots of things they actually do not want to hit. It also results in some pretty unauthentic combat situations. Though at least telegraphing is usually needed in a computer game because otherwise you had no chance of parrying in the first place (especially with ping).*
2. Your weapon is not really present as a solid object until mid-swing. Before and after it can neither hit an object nor be parried or blocked. Also your attacks pass both allies and enemies without slowing down or even stopping.
3. Parries work as a generic box that gets activated by pressing the parry button. They are not directional and cannot be held in position and every weapon got the same hitbox (that is about as big as a tower shield - blocking drains stamina based on the weapon used though). Also attacks cannot be used to deflect your enemies blows - weapons just pass right through each other resulting in a hit trade.

Still it offers good combat flow and control and at least the first point would in fact be less of an issue in DayZ as random survivors are probably not trained melee fighters. M&B is good as well but feels a little stiff in comparison (and while I like the holdable parry I do not like holdable attacks).

 

Strafing on the other side is actually realistic, although many melee fights in reality would often end in tackling and grappling - something that is probably a pain in the a*s(*) to implement in a satisfying way (quicktime events are not).

 

*That's why in Chivalry the most basic attack is actually an overhead strike where you look at your opponents feet to speed up your attack. You can see this in the video as well.

 

Hah! if the devs actually manage to implement something that even slightly resembles the combat in Chivalry,i would be immensely grateful. :)

Sure,there are some minor realism faults,but compared to the melee combat in DayZ,i am prepared to overlook them. :P

[Avant-Garde 229]

On a side note, here is a exelent video showing in depth Chivalry's mechanic:

 

 

Good melee gameplay imo, making this all less competitive and more realistic would be the way to go for DayZ I believe.

[Evil Minion 943]

3)Parries in fact are directional, the parrybox is indeed huge but you can bypass it with either a slash, a overhead or a stab. Some attacks you have to really turn to your sides to deffend or else you take to the face. I agree about the huge parrybox being kinda bad, imo it should be done with the model of your weapon (at least in DayZ). Clashing would do GREAT to Chivalry's gameplay in order to avoid forcing hit trades.. Maybe Chivalry 2 who knows.

 

Holdable parry I think its a bad idea, make feinting and delayed attacks useless + requires less skill so it would kind of dumb down Chivalry's gameplay if it was implemented, because that game is all about timing. You need good timing, good reflexes and get creative to bypass that huge parrybox lol.

I was speaking about the general way parrying is implemented - here I think the M&B solution might be better. Basically instead of having a huge square box you move around by turning the parry box would correspond with your weapon and by choosing a direction you choose how to hold it in order to prevent getting hit. This would make feinting more natural as you would not have those "strike">"feint">"same strike again" attacks but rather "strike from one side">"feint">"strike from the other side". Holdable parry with a parry box as in Chivalry would be a bad idea indeed.

 

Delayed attacks are useless in real life and I do not want to see delayed melee attacks in DayZ. The only way they might work is by using the additional time to redirect them around your opponents weapon.

 

Now I am not exactly sure how many attack buttons we are getting in DayZ but two seem to make sense to make firearms usable as melee weapons as well. This leaves a dedicated parry option for melee weapons (speak: hold your weapon between you and an incoming strike). By giving held objects a physical presence in the world you could also deflect attacks by clashing or even getting lucky just holding them.

 

Things I would really like but that will probably not make it (they did not even make it into dedicated melee games) are using parry stances as setup for attacks from a different angle and hooking or grappling. I tried Zeno Clash but is seems a little too arcade-y to me and would not really fit DayZ either.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Ya, so besides everyone being elite soldiers, now you want them to be trained in medieval combat as well??  I'm just trying to see how this even fits in as most humans today don't even know how to wield a butter knife. 

Edited January 25, 2015 by Caboose187

[Whyherro123 2283]

I was speaking about the general way parrying is implemented - here I think the M&B solution might be better. Basically instead of having a huge square box you move around by turning the parry box would correspond with your weapon and by choosing a direction you choose how to hold it in order to prevent getting hit. This would make feinting more natural as you would not have those "strike">"feint">"same strike again" attacks but rather "strike from one side">"feint">"strike from the other side". Holdable parry with a parry box as in Chivalry would be a bad idea indeed.

 

Delayed attacks are useless in real life and I do not want to see delayed melee attacks in DayZ. The only way they might work is by using the additional time to redirect them around your opponents weapon.

 

Now I am not exactly sure how many attack buttons we are getting in DayZ but two seem to make sense to make firearms usable as melee weapons as well. This leaves a dedicated parry option for melee weapons (speak: hold your weapon between you and an incoming strike). By giving held objects a physical presence in the world you could also deflect attacks by clashing or even getting lucky just holding them.

 

Things I would really like but that will probably not make it (they did not even make it into dedicated melee games) are using parry stances as setup for attacks from a different angle and hooking or grappling. I tried Zeno Clash but is seems a little too arcade-y to me and would not really fit DayZ either.

I referred to the Mount and Blade system in my post on parrying. I like it as well.

[Jock McScottish 216]

Hand damage. If you run around swinging your fists at anything, there should be a chance of breaking your hands/wrists. Punching a zed should have a small chance, as their bones are decaying and they are mushy. Punching a human player should have a slightly higher chance, as they have hard skulls/bones. Punching a player on the head when they are wearing a motorcycle/military/hard hat should have a high chance of breaking your hands, cos in real life if you punch hard objects, its gonna bash up your hands!

 

A big failing in SA is that your weak fists are an unbreakable weapon. Your fists should only be a weak weapon of last resort, like in real life.

 

Throw a punch and hit a wall instead of your assailant? Instant hand break and cant pick up/use stuff. Will make unarmed players think twice before acting all Rocky Balboa.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Jock McScottish

[Whyherro123 2283]

Hand damage. If you run around swinging your fists at anything, there should be a chance of breaking your hands/wrists. Punching a zed should have a small chance, as their bones are decaying and they are mushy. Punching a human player should have a slightly higher chance, as they have hard skulls/bones. Punching a player on the head when they are wearing a motorcycle/military/hard hat should have a high chance of breaking your hands, cos in real life if you punch hard objects, its gonna bash up your hands!

 

A big failing in SA is that your weak fists are an unbreakable weapon. Your fists should only be a weak weapon of last resort, like in real life.

 

Throw a punch and hit a wall instead of your assailant? Instant hand break and cant pick up/use stuff. Will make unarmed players think twice before acting all Rocky Balboa.

Except....their bones are not decaying and squishy, at least, not any more than a "normal" human being. Because that is what the "infected" in this game are: regular human beings infected with a disease.

 

Not "zombies"

[Avant-Garde 229]

Ya, so besides everyone being elite soldiers, now you want them to be trained in medieval combat as well??  I'm just trying to see how this even fits in as most humans today don't even know how to wield a butter knife. 

Are you telling me that, if me and you had a baseball bat, and I swing the bat to your face you are not trying to parry me with your bat? Your gonna stand there, wating to have your head smashed? You would try to avoid that in some way man, and making a simple moviment with your bat to stop my swing is a very efficient and intuitive way to avoid getting hit in the face. Thats how melee gotta work in this game imo, not mindless swing and strafe and let God chose who lives.

 

Also, just look at Chivalry videos man, there is nothing there that even reminds us of real sword fightings ahahhahhahah, thats pretty much how anyone would try to use a sword. Stab, overhead and slash, nothing of pro medieval fighters there.

 

I don't want parry to be implemented exactly like Chivalry, it would not fit this game. But some basic mechanics from that game would be a great adition to DayZ because they are realistic, like the hability to parry something and make multi directional attacks. If not, why to even have tracer system? What will be the use of this mechanic? The devs should then add a simple hitscan model, call it a day and stop wasting our time. They don't even have to care in having good melee animations with hitscan model and melee fighting would be exactly like it is now, dumb as fuck.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Avant-Garde

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Are you telling me that, if me and you had a baseball bat, and I swing the bat to your face you are not trying to parry me with your bat? Your gonna stand there, wating to have your head smashed? You would try to avoid that in some way man, and making a simple moviment with your bat to stop my swing is a very efficient and intuitive way to avoid getting hit in the face. Thats how melee gotta work in this game imo, not mindless swing and strafe and let God chose who lives.

 

Also, just look at Chivalry videos man, there is nothing there that even reminds us of real sword fightings ahahhahhahah, thats pretty much how anyone would try to use a sword. Stab, overhead and slash, nothing of pro medieval fighters there.

 

I don't want parry to be implemented exactly like Chivalry, it would not fit this game. But some basic mechanics from that game would be a great adition to DayZ because they are realistic, like the hability to parry something and make multi directional attacks. If not, why to even have tracer system? What will be the use of this mechanic? The devs should then add a simple hitscan model, call it a day and stop wasting our time. They don't even have to care in having good melee animations with hitscan model and melee fighting would be exactly like it is now, dumb as fuck.

No I wouldn't parry with a bat.  I would most likely step out of the way and butt end you in the stomach with the bat, knee you in the face when you keel over then smack you up side the head.  We aren't fencing here and I am no trained swordsman which is the combat system you are suggesting and I think it's a really silly idea and does not need to be added.  I do agree that the melee system needs some work but not with your suggestion.  What's next, having our characters turn in MMA fighters?

[DeatHTaX 1217]

Ya, so besides everyone being elite soldiers, now you want them to be trained in medieval combat as well??  I'm just trying to see how this even fits in as most humans today don't even know how to wield a butter knife. 

 

Most people also don't know how to:

 

 

Build a fire

Make an improvised bow

Skin and gut a deer/animal

Fish effectively

Load a magazine and properly clean a firearm

Craft improvised survival items

 

So should we not include those in the game as well?

 

It's not about what's "feasible" to our character, it's about creating an authentic experience and good combat dynamics, and I think an overhauled melee system would do wonders for this game

[jedslather 4]

For the AK74 ammo is almost impossible to find (at least for me) so what is needed is more a balance of the spawned ammo I think.

[Evil Minion 943]

Ya, so besides everyone being elite soldiers, now you want them to be trained in medieval combat as well??

No - it's about a melee system that has better flow requires more than mindless button mashing. I think survivors should wield weapons more like an ordinary person and not like a martial artist. So lots of telegraphing and overstriking - as seen in Chivalry - might actually be a good thing.

The core idea is a more thoughtful and skill dependent melee combat system that incorporates things like defense and initiative. Whether someone is a (comparatively) skilled brawler or not should depend on the player.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Evil Minion

[QUAZIMOFO 275]

For the AK74 ammo is almost impossible to find

 

 

As it should be. All firearms and ammo should be even more rare than they currently are. This isn't Call of Doodie, though most kids think that's the only objective of the game is to kill other players. But that goes with any online game these days. DayZ needs to be demilitarized.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Most people also don't know how to:

 

 

Build a fire

Make an improvised bow

Skin and gut a deer/animal

Fish effectively

Load a magazine and properly clean a firearm

Craft improvised survival items

 

So should we not include those in the game as well?

 

It's not about what's "feasible" to our character, it's about creating an authentic experience and good combat dynamics, and I think an overhauled melee system would do wonders for this game

It's not creating an authentic experience.  It's creating Soul Calibur in DayZ.  

[Evil Minion 943]

It's not creating an authentic experience.  It's creating Soul Calibur in DayZ.  

Lies.

 

An authentic melee implementation would result in an authentic experience and not in "Soul Calibur in DayZ". And authenticity should be a major goal. Nobody here wants any "magic" features nor are "magic" features required for a better melee experience.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Evil Minion

[Avant-Garde 229]

No I wouldn't parry with a bat.  I would most likely step out of the way and butt end you in the stomach with the bat, knee you in the face when you keel over then smack you up side the head.  We aren't fencing here and I am no trained swordsman which is the combat system you are suggesting and I think it's a really silly idea and does not need to be added.  I do agree that the melee system needs some work but not with your suggestion.  What's next, having our characters turn in MMA fighters?

There are many arguments on my post and you chose to ignore them. Ok then, sugest something. How do you think melee should be improved?

 

 

It's not creating an authentic experience.  It's creating Soul Calibur in DayZ.  

 

What a piece of shit argument lol, are you disagreeing for the sake of it? Wanna discuss for sport? Imo you should either start talking or simple don't post anymore. You are posting like those people who come here and "NO" or "NO DAYZ KNIGHTS PREASE". Read the thread man, get into the discusssion. What would be a good and complex melee system for DayZ?

Edited January 26, 2015 by Inception.
Please don't.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

There are many arguments on my post and you chose to ignore them. Ok then, sugest something. How do you think melee should be improved?

What a piece of shit argument lol, are you disagreeing for the sake of it? Wanna discuss for sport? Imo you should either start talking or simple don't post anymore. You are posting like those people who come here and "NO" or "NO DAYZ KNIGHTS PREASE". Read the thread man, get into the discusssion. What would be a good and complex melee system for DayZ?

I guess I need to word this differently. You're being over aggressive because someone disagrees with your idea. DayZ does not need a complex melee system. The only thing the devs need to do is give it better animations. Edited January 25, 2015 by Caboose187

[McWendy 675]

Better animations and more infected to use it on.

Combo moves i wouldnt mind. Not 18+killer instinct moves but more like a frontswing backswing idea.

[sachad 1016]

Block, stab, left/right swing, overhead, possibly throwing. Adding these would be more than sufficient for melee weapons. 

[Whyherro123 2283]

Block, stab, left/right swing, overhead, possibly throwing. Adding these would be more than sufficient for melee weapons. 

 

Yep, although throwing is iffy. If I had a hand weapon, probably the last thing I would do with it is throw it.

 

I just want bayonets......

 

 

Literally the perfect weapon for the "post-apcalyptic survivor": you get shooty, stabby, choppy and bashy all in one nice package. Magazine empty? Stick 'em with the pointy end. Enemy/zed too close? A rifle but to the face will get them away. 

 

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

Edited January 25, 2015 by Whyherro123

[sachad 1016]

Yep, although throwing is iffy. If I had a hand weapon, probably the last thing I would do with it is throw it.

 

 

 

It'd be a rarely used option, but sometimes you just want to hurl that axe instead of swinging it and I'd like to have the choice :p

[Avant-Garde 229]

I guess I need to word this differently. You're being over aggressive because someone disagrees with your idea. DayZ does not need a complex melee system. The only thing the devs need to do is give it better animations.

Got agressive because you refuse to discuss and keep denying the idea with arguments that makes zero sense, not because you disagree with me. You feel free to do that, but at least elaborate on the subject.

 

Yep, although throwing is iffy. If I had a hand weapon, probably the last thing I would do with it is throw it.

 

I just want bayonets......

 

Literally the perfect weapon for the "post-apcalyptic survivor": you get shooty, stabby, choppy and bashy all in one nice package. Magazine empty? Stick 'em with the pointy end. Enemy/zed too close? A rifle but to the face will get them away. 

 

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

 

Fuck I want that too man, bayonet fightings would be awesome. Do you have more videos of fights with modern weapons? I mean, imagine if this was implemented in DayZ and we had stab, overhead and slash, how do you think it would be done with a weapon? How to slash with it or overhead? Maybe these should not be valid for firearms melee and it has only the stabbing attack and the parry.

 

Maybe the butside of the weapon could be used in slash idk, also as the overhead and then stab for the bayonet poke

 

EDIT: Take a look at this man, kinda interesting for the subject

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ygwgX8H3S0#t=175

Edited January 25, 2015 by Avant-Garde

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

Enough slinging feces at one another, keep it civil and on topic in here or I'll start handing out warnings.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

It's not creating an authentic experience.  It's creating Soul Calibur in DayZ.  

 

Lol no caboose...it's not making "soul calibur" in DayZ.

 

Games have been borrowing good game mechanics from other games since video games were a thing.

 

A game utilizing mechanics or creating mechanics based off inspiration from another game's feature does not make it inherently that game. If no game ever payed homage or utilized similar mechanics from other games, a lot of our favorite titles wouldn't exist or would suck today.

 

Come on....soul calubur? Jesus caboose lol. Normally your arguments sound a lot less...well...silly.