Hyperthermia and Hypothermia

[attensefx 0]

Has anyone else found these to be a little too severe? I mean I just got a Ghillie suit and found out that it is extremely hot, so i battled hyperthermia (heat) for a good hour or two, the best i got was "HOT" which was alright but then it started to rain and then all of a sudden I get Hypothermia (Cold) and die within 30 minutes. Is there no even ground for this? I thought that if i'm always "OVERHEATED" in a Ghillie suit surely i'll be fine when it starts raining. Apparently not. Am i the only one who has thought that this is way too severe?

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

Nope, sounds like it's working good to me.  A ghillie suit is not waterproof, otherwise it'd probably be HOTTER.  Try wrapping yourself in a blanket that was left out in the rain overnight and tell me how warm it is?  I would assume you were running around like a chicken with it's head cut off while you had the ghillie on?

[attensefx 0]

Nope, sounds like it's working good to me.  A ghillie suit is not waterproof, otherwise it'd probably be HOTTER.  Try wrapping yourself in a blanket that was left out in the rain overnight and tell me how warm it is?  I would assume you were running around like a chicken with it's head cut off while you had the ghillie on?

Well for one, i was in a vehicle which apparently doesn't count as being indoors so that got me to freezing quick whilst i went searching for matchboxes in 3 separate towns, switching clothes didn't help including pants, top and taking off the Ghillie suit so your wet blanket argument is invalid. Also whilst I was hyperthermic I had to lie down in a pond for a good 10 minutes just to get out of "OVERHEATED" even then I was still "HOT" and quickly went back to overheated in a matter of minutes. Whilst i was hyperthermic I never sprinted i tried to stay still for long periods of time nothing helped but the pond. That is way too severe

[rickyriot 1009]

I don't use a ghillie but I do swap between a raincoat and a t-shirt depending on the weather and temperature. When it's dry and sunny and I'm running about I almost always have to swap to a t-shirt.

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

The damage would already be done if you get cold before you take off the wet clothes, especially if it was still raining when you put on the new clothes.  The only cure would be fire...also did you really craft a full ghillie suit before you found a book of matches?  Priorities...  Assuming you were running around a lot BEFORE you got overheated?  That would be the culprit in this case, you were wearing a heavily camouflaged suit which was made to be worn by people who lay down or stand still for very long periods of time and move very slowly if at all to avoid detection, and I'm sure they still get dehydrated and overheated in real life (and they're expected to make an accurate, long range killshot after all that).

[attensefx 0]

The damage would already be done if you get cold before you take off the wet clothes, especially if it was still raining when you put on the new clothes.  The only cure would be fire...also did you really craft a full ghillie suit before you found a book of matches?  Priorities...  Assuming you were running around a lot BEFORE you got overheated?  That would be the culprit in this case, you were wearing a heavily camouflaged suit which was made to be worn by people who lay down or stand still for very long periods of time and move very slowly if at all to avoid detection, and I'm sure they still get dehydrated and overheated in real life (and they're expected to make an accurate, long range killshot after all that).

I did have a matchbox, I got rid of it because of the lack of room. What i don't understand is when i first made the suit which was a day before it was raining and i was "HOT" for the entire time. That's why i thought i didn't need matches and i could disregard that i could get hypothermia.

[Tatanko 5591]

To be honest, it's hard to say what is going on based only on what you've told us so far. I assume, as I do with ALL stories on the internet, that there is at least a tiny bit of exaggeration here as well for the sake of getting your point across. It sounds to me like you weren't allowing yourself enough time to cool down/heat up once you left the more extreme status.

 

Ultimately it comes down to this: in my opinion, it seems to be working correctly just as BigMike already said. I wouldn't say it's working perfectly, but it's a lot closer to the mark than where we were six months ago.

[krazypenguin 174]

Both of these conditions are fine, the issue with them comes from applying real world logic to the way in which they are implemented in the game, especially considering the way that their effects are time compressed in the setting of the game.

Take a person running the London marathon on a hot sunny day, whilst wearing a heavy and enclosed fancy dress costume (think those people who wear the rhino suits for example) - that's actually quite dangerous. The heat can, and does, cause them all sorts of problems and people do die from heat exhaustion. In game, by the time you are seeing "hot" messages and worse you need to think of it more in terms of actually being quite ill from overheating - not just being a bit warm and going for a dip in a pond. Go read the Wikipedia entry on it - it's a serious medical condition.

Same for hypothermia.

In this respect, however, I do think that the UI could be improved - the feedback to the player is not clear enough to indicate the severity of the effects, and I hope the devs will improve this in future. Last night I lost a character to starvation 3 seconds after sprinting up some stairs - how many genuinely starving people could do that?

[wasnu (DayZ) 392]

full ghillie and ghillie tops are a bit tricky, but i think its good like they work this time.

 

with ghillie on only is walking allowed to not be overheated, long jogging or running distances are deadly.

 

Travelling with ghillie takes much more time (walking) but therefor your are good covered.

 

i wear my ghillie parts and green raincoat or summer gorky military top and pants, so rain and cooling of is no problem.

Sometimes i take "a break" in the woods and put down my clothes to cool down  :blush:  and after a while i walk on.

[nettles 396]

I would have to say the temperature system is working fine.  I've never had any kind of temperature-related deaths acting like a normal sensible human being would act.  That's jogging or walking, resting indoors, drinking often, and I wear a brown hoodie regardless of weather.  I never fall below cold or rise above hot.

I also don't carry 3 primaries and 7 magazines.

 

edit:  I do tend to wear comfortable jeans, boots, a hoodie, and cap. I don't wear a vest though.  

Edited January 13, 2015 by nettles

[Baker. 1484]

I honestly find the temperature system annoying. It is a novel idea but in practice it add's very little and just floods my screen with status message spam. Hopefully upon release we will be able to toggle it in the init.sqf(presuming that file still exists).

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

If that ghillie suit is too hot I'll take it off your hands! :)

 

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghillie_suit

 

Safety considerations[edit]

 

Although highly effective, ghillie suits are impractical for many situations where camouflage is useful. They tend to be very heavy and hot. Even in moderate climates, the temperature inside of the ghillie suit can reach over 50 °C (120 °F). The burlap is also flammable, unless treated with fire retardant, so the wearer may be at increased risk from ignition sources such as smoke grenades or white phosphorus.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Death By Crowbar

[LORDPrometheus 21]

I've been forced to take a ten minute swim to stop my character from overheating which seems odd to me since he's wearing normal clothing.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Has anyone else found these to be a little too severe? I mean I just got a Ghillie suit and found out that it is extremely hot, so i battled hyperthermia (heat) for a good hour or two, the best i got was "HOT" which was alright but then it started to rain and then all of a sudden I get Hypothermia (Cold) and die within 30 minutes. Is there no even ground for this? I thought that if i'm always "OVERHEATED" in a Ghillie suit surely i'll be fine when it starts raining. Apparently not. Am i the only one who has thought that this is way too severe?

Nope. Hypothermia and Hyperthermia will kill you VERY fast in a real-world survival situation. Overheating then suddenly getting wet is a sure way to develop hypothermia, as the water sucks all the heat out of you. I've had one of my students come down with severe hypothermia within 30 minutes (requiring a trip to the hospital) all due to him wearing his rain gear too tight, and sweating. The sweat built up under the jacket, and drew away body heat from his "core".

 

I honestly find the temperature system annoying. It is a novel idea but in practice it add's very little and just floods my screen with status message spam. Hopefully upon release we will be able to toggle it in the init.sqf(presuming that file still exists).

Poor baby. I agree with the status message thing, but did you forget what kind of game we are playing, here?

[Whyherro123 2283]

I've been forced to take a ten minute swim to stop my character from overheating which seems odd to me since he's wearing normal clothing.

You can totally overheat wearing "normal" (note: what do you consider "normal"?) clothing, so long as you are over-insulated (ie, wearing heavy enough clothing) in the following locations:

-Head.

-Neck

-Armpits

-Groin and Inner Thigh

 

The above locations are where the largest blood vessels are closest to the skin, and therefore, where you will lose the most heat due to temperature diffusion. Note how your armpits and groin tend to be covered 99% of the time by clothing. So, in the real world, if you want to be warm, cover your head and neck. Alternatively, want to cool off? Take off that cap and loosen up the neck of your jacket. I've climbed 3,000+ foot mountains in ice storms with little more than a windbreaker, jeans, and a fleece jacket, all because I was wearing a solid fleece cap and a scarf.

 

Insulation is key. I have been waiting for the game to introduce a "layering system" (http://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/layering-basics.html) for a while, as it would both be more effective and more realistic than the current take-off-sweatshirt-put-on-rainjacket system we have. Plus, this would allow the external temperatures to more accurately reflect a mid-to-late Autumn temperature, as we would be able to "deal with" the colder temperature while wearing more clothing. Want to "balance" storing equipment with multiple layers on? Simple, make the "inside" layers unable to store anything (essentially, remove the storage slots), although I really have no trouble storing  small items (batteries, snacks, compasses) in the breast/arm pocket on my jacket, which is usually underneath my windbreaker.

 

With a proper layering system, you can respond almost instantly to changing weather and temperature conditions. Let us say you start out with a T-shirt and a light sweatshirt. (Both made from cotton)

-Cold? Pull on a vest or a light jacket on over the sweatshirt, or pull up the hood, or wear a cap

-windy? As above, or pull on a windbreaker (which would do nothing to protect against the cold, only "wind chill"

-starts to rain? Pull on a windbreaker, or, if it really starts to spit, a full rainjacket. Take it slow, because you will sweat with the rainjacket on

-inside layers get wet? (from rain, or sweat) Better pull them off quick, as cotton loses insulation properties when wet!

-Find a wool sweater and some socks? AWESOME. Wool (aside from synthetic fleece) is my favorite material for clothing, as it keeps you warm even when wet.

 

Of course, all of the above needs a more complicated temperature system, which would be infinitely more realistic than the IM COLD/ IM HOT thing we have going on. If you are getting cold because you are wet, throwing a raincoat on top of your soaked skin won't really help.

[Baker. 1484]

Poor baby. I agree with the status message thing, but did you forget what kind of game we are playing, here?

 

I fail to see how you agreeing with my major gripe warrants a "poor baby" lest you are merely attempting to troll the thread. Nor do I bother much with your interpretation of what is fun in a survival game/apocalypse simulation. In my opinion the implementation of the temperature system is not organic. The way it was done in the mod was sufficient with perhaps room for variables on speed of effect. 

Edited January 13, 2015 by B@ker

[vibin (DayZ) 3]

The issue isn't about realism of hypo/hyper, it's the fact there is a bad balance between the two levels. If I'm overheating and have to sit in a pond to cool off, that's fine. But, if I become hypothermic immediately following cooling off and now have to sit in front of a fire (which eventually makes me become hot and overheated) then there's an issue. I want the realism, but I don't play dayz to swim in ponds and sit in front of fires for a majority of my game time.

[ChainReactor 922]

I don't wear a vest though.  

 

As far as i can tell, vests do not have an impact on heat isolation, except for the chest holster, which is minimal ( 0.1 )

[CANUCKinNZ 108]

Lately I have been carrying a rain jacket in my waterproof backpack always. As soon as there is the first hint of rain I am putting it on. You can still use it as a storage container as well so it doesn't take up extra space. Pants are all over the place too so I don't worry so much about waterproof pants. Just swap them out once the sun comes out. 

[SirN0va 0]

I find that the stages towards hypothermia are too fast. I was cold from the rain but not in a position to do anything about it. Shortly after I was but already at the freezing stage. I was lucky to have a splitting axe and some matches but by the time I had cut some firewood I was dead before I could light it. 

 

Something similar happened but reacted quicker but was not warming up so I logged off by the fire and hoped for the best. It did the trick and I was grand.

 

I love that this is the first game to make me want to get out of the rain but it needs to be tweaked so the alternative is not certain death if you don't get inside and wait.

[kavemandayz 14]

Of course it's not working correctly.  If you go from "overheating" to hypothermia, EVER, it's not working.  Assuming that you get the 'overheating' status, the air temperature isn't close at all to hypothermia, water or not.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I find that the stages towards hypothermia are too fast. I was cold from the rain but not in a position to do anything about it. Shortly after I was but already at the freezing stage. I was lucky to have a splitting axe and some matches but by the time I had cut some firewood I was dead before I could light it. 

 

Something similar happened but reacted quicker but was not warming up so I logged off by the fire and hoped for the best. It did the trick and I was grand.

 

I love that this is the first game to make me want to get out of the rain but it needs to be tweaked so the alternative is not certain death if you don't get inside and wait.

Uh, yeah, that sounds about right, actually.

 

The student that I mentioned in my above post? It only took about half an hour from him putting on the raincoat to developing hypothermia, specifically, the stage where he couldn't take off his own wet clothing due to muscle impairment, and where he was confused about where he was and what he was doing. I had to fireman-carry him out of the woods and drive him to the hospital. This was just from being wet with his own sweat: it was drizzling, but still roughly 70 degrees F external air temp.

 

Hypothermia can happen quick as all hell. In some situations (namely, being sweaty [which you would be wearing a Ghillie suit, or rainjacket] and in the rain or cold), if you don't recognize the early signs (which can be difficult if you are not paying attention (difficult in a group) and know what to spot), you can be in some serious shit very soon. 

 

And this game doesn't even do hypothermia justice! 

[Whyherro123 2283]

Of course it's not working correctly.  If you go from "overheating" to hypothermia, EVER, it's not working.  Assuming that you get the 'overheating' status, the air temperature isn't close at all to hypothermia, water or not.

Sure you can, and hypothermia isn't just caused by air temperature.

 

What sort of survival experience do you have again? 

[chickenmcfuggits 49]

Heat packs don't seem to be working very well, at least not for me, I threw some stuffed peppers on the fire and that worked great though. Staying near a fire doesn't appear to be very quick to warm you up either, seems to take a while or basically just keep you from going hypothermic while staying at the freezing or cold level. Realistically you should be fairly warm if close to a fire, especially considering the slight difficulty and luck involved in finding matches vs the time it takes to freeze to death sometimes when its very cold. Matches I think should maybe not be more common, but at least easy to find, such as having a very good chance of finding them next to those little wood heaters and stoves that are in most houses and in the restaurants/bars and such, the ones that sometimes have food hidden behind them now. That way if you are in dire need of matches all you have to do is pop into a few houses and you know exactly where to look (right where matches should logically be).

 

Come to think of it camelbaks (chernabaks anyone?) might be a nice addition to the game as both a water container and way to stay cool.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Chzy

[kavemandayz 14]

Sure you can, and hypothermia isn't just caused by air temperature.

 

What sort of survival experience do you have again? 

Don't forget to read the last few words... "Water or not".