Shooting everything you see isn't realistic...

[dallas 5195]

The level of Cooperation is what makes species SURVIVES in an hostile environment. It is our high level of cooperation that made us -human race- stand where we are now. In any apocalyptic event' date=' i would bet on the guys able to communicate and cooperate to survive the longest.

the lack of cooperation is one of the reason invoked for example to explain the exctinction of the Neanderthal faced to the Sapiens.

Bandits: Neanderthals.

Survivors: Sapiens.[/quote']

I love it :D

[FFrank 18]

I'm totally with the OP, dunno what you PvP lovers try to point out here. In fact he's right. If there was a zombie apocalypse, NOT EVEN 30% of those who were alive would start shooting each other.

IF people did, others would spread the word about them being murders, making them hostile for anyone friendly.

But though, Bandit skin was taken away and the heartbeat sound is not a useful way to separate friendlies from murders.

Game as it is is with nearly everyone shooting at others is EXTREMELY unrealistic, yeah haters, you can argue all the way but it won't lead you anywhere.

As long as there is nothing that benefits grouping/teaming, f.e. some kind of group quests, this will be only be a zombie including deathmatch for many people. Furthermore, banditry right now is the easiest way to play and it won't even take much skill if you have a group of bandits.

DayZ needs some humanity related changes. Not going to do changes? Okay, then give a bandit skin to everyone at 5th murder and remove the idea of "surviving" (Survivor) from this game.

[dallas 5195]

Another cool thing about bandit skins was that even if you were a complete massmurder on one server, the skin followed you on all servers. So you couldn't just kill everyone and magically switch to a parallel universe to restore your reputation.

[perestain 33]

You mistake patience for skill.

Patience is part of skill. Just as a skilled F1 driver exercises patience in waiting for an opportunity to pass' date=' or a skilled soccer player exercises patience looking for an opening in the goal.

[/quote']

Agreed. Patience amongst other things is oftentimes key for success (and for meeting the winning conditions in a competition).

Other measures of skill are tactics, communication, an understanding of your weapon, good aim, knowledge of the terrain and an intuitive understanding of human behavior to predict your opponent's actions before they occur.

Well they are aspects of skill, but they are not measures, since there is no clear way to quantify and compare them individually.

Anyone can live almost forever in a deserted northern part off the map on basic hunting gear and a can of water. No skill/training needed for that beyond knowing the game controls and how the inventory works.

That's true. It's not what I do, but it's true. But that's not how I've survived for 18 days and 50+ hours in game. I own ~11 vehicles on two different servers, a network of fully-stocked tents (legitimately found) scattered across the map and well hidden. This takes skill as well - using the terrain and a knowledge of travel behaviors to choose tent locations that are not discovered. I have in my possession one of every gun in the game at his point except for the Camo SVD.

I take chances in the game. lots of them. I survive because I play more skillfully than other people. To deny that this game requires skill is just folly.

Thats an impressive archievement for sure.

For people who strive to not die while accumulating as much gear as fast as possible (which is probably a large part of all players) it can be considered skillful. Still, for someone whose goal it is to run through all cities full servers with a flare at night it might not be that interesting. In the end, it depends on how you personally weigh different aspects of success. There is no formula that would yield a single measure that applies for everyone though.

You decide for yourself what your goal is, and as a result what you consider skillful gameplay.

Whatever your goal, you have to be alive to accomplish it. Surviving is the universal goal. If you choose to do that in a boring way, that's okay. It requires less skill than surviving while doing exciting things, but that's your call.

Not necessarily. If my goal is to just accumulate as much military gear for some friends in the shortest amount of time I might want to leave everything I have in my vehicles, minimizing my risk of losing anything upon death and just take a chance and run to NWA naked with an axe. A death might put me 15 minutes behind, waiting for reinforcements and executing a carefully planned operation would take way longer though. I'm not saying this is a particularly legit way of roleplaying, but its well within the game rules and mechanics and might even be fun to some.

Just because people can choose NOT to use their skills doesn't mean the game has no measure of skill.

I'm not sure if we talk about the same thing here.

A measure of skill is a variable by which skill can be clearly quantified (i.e. "measured"). It think we already agreed that survival time alone is not an appropriate measure of skill. I don't see how such a variable could ever exist, considering there is no winning condition and its a complete sandbox. You'd have to make a measure up, and then it still could always happen that other people don't really care about it, since they think other aspects are more important to them.

So you can never really conclude that someone sucks unless you know his exact objectives. In the end, I'd say the most "success" to be had from this game is experiencing exciting situations. Thats where this game really shines IMO.

[justwrath 23]

It is a fucking zombie apocalypse. Nobody in real-life would shoot other survivors the second they see them. So rocket if you want to make a realistic zombie simulator please fucking do something to remove the shoot on sight mentality..

actually when the food becomes scarce, people would actually resort to killing and eating each other. lets get this into the game.

btw, your whining to rocket is arrogant and misplaced. if you can't take the constant threat of pvp, gtfo.

[MperorM 8]

It is a fucking zombie apocalypse. Nobody in real-life would shoot other survivors the second they see them. So rocket if you want to make a realistic zombie simulator please fucking do something to remove the shoot on sight mentality..

actually when the food becomes scarce' date=' people would actually resort to killing and eating each other. lets get this into the game.

btw, your whining to rocket is arrogant and misplaced. if you can't take the constant threat of pvp, gtfo.

[/quote']

The thing you forget is zombies won't spawn in real-life. You can drive to the big malls and get all the food you would need for atleast a year to come. After that is done you can drive to a big farm in the middle of nowhere, kill the few zombies that are in the area and start living on the food you have until crops are ready and you can harvest them and breed and kill the animals on the farm if needed. How do you think people lived in the the stoneage?

[Maca (DayZ) 769]

What kind of person would survive the apocalpse..???

And the Winner is....The Nerds!

Some afternoon, a nerd will wake up is his parents' basement. He will roll over, and press the magic green button on his X-Box controller, and nothing will happen. In a dire fit of panic he will yell upstairs to his Mother to make sure she paid the electric bill. There will be no answer. The Zombie Outbreak will have consumed humanity, and there will be one underdeveloped man-boy left. In a rush of realization he will know his time has come. This is what he has been waiting for his whole life, NO! This is what he has been training for his whole life.

Even though he has two weeks left on his X-Box Live subscription, he is confident in his abilities; his training is complete. The countless hours playing Call of Duty, Halo, and Left for Dead have provided him the skills necessary to take up arms. Once he finds out which button reloads the weapon, he will be unstoppable in this Neo-Apocalypse. His time spent grinding, questing, and fishing in World of Warcraft have honed his patience, and maximized his gathering skills..../Wink. The windows to his basement have been blacked out, and his nocturnal lifestyle has endowed him with night vision, thereby, increasing his ability to move during the midnight hours. His primary diet of Ramen Noodles, Mountain Dew, and Reese's Peanut Butter Cups has prepared his metabolism for the lack of vegetables and meat. Even though he will be hard pressed to live without Hot Pockets, he will prevail, because he is a survivor! A new Utopia will rise from the ashes of a fallen world, like a mother-fucking Phoenix.(Sarcasm)

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[zalman 1]

add cannibalism and make it the main way to get food, that would at least make the killings realistic, read "the road"!"

[grizzle 21]

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. - Ghandi

The human race did not survive and form societies by killing everyone in sight. The survivors were those that chose to work together - realizing safety and strength in numbers - to defeat those that chose to kill everyone in sight. FACT.

History proves the bandits wrong. They too survive, but only in smaller numbers and still not tolerated by the rest of society.

Just as we put murderers in prison for life and/or enact capital punishment - thereby removing them from society. Upon death, in game bandits should either permanently lose the ability to play the game or at the very least be forced to wait weeks to be able to log back in. Now THAT would change the dynamic of this game eh?

[Lone1egend (DayZ) 0]

I'm not a PK'er as my main objective when playing DayZ. Survival and Scavenging are what I like to do most, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with Bandits at all. Senseless killing, PK'ing just to PK is slightly annoying (like people who don't kill for gear, just for the lulz), but hey who am I or anyone else to dictate how someone enjoys their time on a video game, because after all ARMA 2 and DayZ are just that, a VIDEO FREAKIN GAME!!!!!

I also LOVE how so many people like to argue that Shoot First, Ask Questions later isn't realistic. I'm sorry if a Z-Day were to ever happen, I have children and a family to protect along with my own hide. Guess what I'm gonna be doing. I'm not gonna be yelling down the block "Are you friendly?". I'm either gonna try to evade a group or if it's one or two people, most likely take them out before they could do any harm to me or my family.

Think to yourself, are you or would you be willing to trust an absolute stranger(s) in a life or death post apocalyptic world?

[gizm0 96]

I'm not a PK'er as my main objective when playing DayZ. Survival and Scavenging are what I like to do most' date=' but I see absolutely nothing wrong with Bandits at all. Senseless killing, PK'ing just to PK is slightly annoying (like people who don't kill for gear, just for the lulz), but hey who am I or anyone else to dictate how someone enjoys their time on a video game, because after all ARMA 2 and DayZ are just that, a VIDEO FREAKIN GAME!!!!!

I also LOVE how so many people like to argue that Shoot First, Ask Questions later isn't realistic. I'm sorry if a Z-Day were to ever happen, I have children and a family to protect along with my own hide. Guess what I'm gonna be doing. I'm not gonna be yelling down the block "Are you friendly?". I'm either gonna try to evade a group or if it's one or two people, most likely take them out before they could do any harm to me or my family.

Think to yourself, are you or would you be willing to trust an absolute stranger(s) in a life or death post apocalyptic world?

[/quote']

Your wife was a stanger to you at one point was she not? same with your co-workers.

[Dianeces 2]

Upon death' date=' in game bandits should either permanently lose the ability to play the game or at the very least be forced to wait weeks to be able to log back in. Now THAT would change the dynamic of this game eh?

[/quote']

Better idea. Upon death, everybody should be forced to wait a couple weeks to play since you can't respawn in real life. This would of course lead to a decrease in random shootings because...wait a minute. This wouldn't decrease random shootings at all; in fact, it would probably increase them since dying would result in significant lost playtime. This is why whinging about PvP is so dumb, you are arguing against human nature (specifically self-preservation, which is the strongest motivator we have).

[bonafide 2]

This game can never simulate real life because you cant respawn. All you fucking carebears would be dead and we'd never have to hear your whines. :D

[galdis 10]

The only thing that would inhibit KOS mentality is if Rocket implemented a long respawn timer. If people had to wait 2 hours to respawn they would be less inclined to be stupid and more inclined to find help.

Tons of people would stop playing, but that's okay because they only played for PvP and don't do anything else in the mod. If all you do in DayZ is PvP you're not playing the mod to its full extent.

[peliluola@gmail.com 28]

Yup, longer respawn time would be nice, or maybe so the respawn time depends on how many people you have killed. Killing zombies would lessen your respawn time and killing players would make it longer, topping at say, 2 hours.

[Al Bundy (DayZ) 0]

Actually a longer respawn would make people even more inclined to shoot on sight. Are you really going to wait for the other guy to shoot you first and lock you out of the game? No, you're not.

[Slyguy65 499]

Refreshing. Thank you for making this never-before-made-on-these-forums point!

And addressing the dev directly' date=' you canny bastard!

[/quote']

....people like you are annoying.

Ya the fucking point has been brought up and it will kept being brought up until something is done.

People all bringing up the same point usually HAVE A POINT to get across so i am glad people keep bringing the same stuff up....

Top 3 issues in dayz right now

1)zombies ignoring physics

2)people ignoring morality

3)disconnecting being used (i only do it on occasions i don't pussy out every time danger is lurking like 70% of the people who DC)

---

Actually a longer respawn would make people even more inclined to shoot on sight. Are you really going to wait for the other guy to shoot you first and lock you out of the game? No' date=' you're not.

[/quote']

Plus internet punks are 90% of this game so they will do it just to piss the other person off.

---

The only thing that would inhibit KOS mentality is if Rocket implemented a long respawn timer. If people had to wait 2 hours to respawn they would be less inclined to be stupid and more inclined to find help.

Tons of people would stop playing' date=' but that's okay because they only played for PvP and don't do anything else in the mod. If all you do in DayZ is PvP you're not playing the mod to its full extent.

[/quote']

Dude no way in hell zombies are broken up the ass also glitches are still everywhere so if you die by a glitch you have to wait 2 hours....or zombies kill you...2 hours ya no more then just the PVP would stop playing.

[maxim_malcon@yahoo.com 0]

I mentioned before that even a little bit of logical thinking would provide you with the information why people continue creating this forum posts.

I guess I must hand-feed this information to you.

Meet Bob, Bob is a brand new player, he saw a few videos on YouTube and now he wants to play DayZ because he found it an interesting concept. He joins a server and runs straight into zombies and gets eaten alive, after a few days, he learns how to successfully crawl about within the cities and not attract zombies while searching for loot.

Bob manages to pick up one of his favorite weapons, a semi-automatic sniper rifle. While crawling about he suddenly meets Dan, Dan salutes him and Bob salutes back. They become best buddies, they go out fighting zombies together and picking up loot. All of the sudden Dan shoots Bob in the back to obtain some ammo because he was running low. Bob is confused at what has happened. Bob respawns and loses trust in other players, while searching for loot, he points his weapon at Ryan, who is running away from zombies, he thinks to himself weather to shoot him or not, due to him being betrayed already by Dan.

He decides to leave Ryan alone, however Ryan suddenly spots Bob and shoots him on sight because he wanted someone else to share his misery.

Now Bob is really frustrated, he gives up hope on trusting others. He adapts the "kill or be killed" mentality, and starts shooting everyone on sight.

Bob while already killing many other players, he meets a fresh spawn, a brand new player, his name is Billy, Bob shoots Billy on sight because he trusts no one. Billy is confused on what has just happened. Eventually Billy gets killed several times and he becomes just like Bob, also adapting this "shoot on sight" mentality.

Now multiply this by hundreds and hundreds of times and what do you have?

If the only way to find a "legit" group in this game is by the forums or contacting players you already know, then there's a serious "trust" issue going amongst the community, it's too extreme, to the point where eventually majority of the players adapt the "shoot on sight" mentality, thus hurting the co-op experience.

This game should promote a co-op experience with random players just as much as it promotes PvP amongst random players.

Forums and friends squads is called "metagaming" and if the majority use metagaming to set up alliances / squads / buddies, then there's obviously something missing within the game.

That something is the broken karma system.

Until the karma system is fixed, most people would shoot on sight.

There is no punishment for committing a murder right now, you have nothing to lose, but everything to gain, it's "fun" to troll people in game, make them lose all their hard earned gear with a single shot from miles away.

However, if they do not shoot, they will not gain anything, only risk their own lives in the long run.

Therefore, it makes no sense why NOT to murder someone.

A working karma system (major emphasis on WORKING) would divide the PvP focused bandits amongst the good natured survivores. Thus motivating a co-op experience bandits with other bandits and survivors with other survivors.

If people enjoy going alone, then it would be also a completely fine idea.

Because as it stands, a bandit can easily identify their targets, while a survivor cannot.

They will always have the first shot, they will always have the first kill.

And the funny part is that these bandits think they are "good" because they take out a survivor that is unsure about them being an enemy or a friendly within a single shot. Most of these survivors don't even get a chance to shoot back unless you are a crappy bandit with horrible aim.

[andy_uk15@hotmail.com 70]

To be fair, in the dire circumstance of an apocalyptic event, anything we may call 'humanity' takes a back seat when survival is at stake.

While I don't actively hunt other players, and generally avoid conflict - if at all possible; I am aware that others will be more bloodthirsty / greedy in nature. People say that it is unrealistic to shoot people on sight for 'shits and giggles'... But ask yourself - Is it? Is it really?

In a world where there are no rules & regulations, no societal constraints, no law, no order. What is stopping people from killing indiscriminately? While some may feel bound to some moral obligation - it's likely that most will not. And that's the simple fact. I don't find this sort of behavior unreal what-so-ever. An interesting thing to note - while playing Day Z with a group of friends, I become less of a cautious survivor, and more akin to a unit within a marauding pack of dogs.

What ever you think of Day Z and the players in it - it evokes decision making of a more aggressive and primal nature.

There are no 'logical members of society' in Day Z, you are communing with neanderthal's.

My best advice to you would be... be smart. ARMA is a simulator by design. When playing Day Z nobody wants things to be 'fair'... If you want 'fair' a more arcade-based shooter may be more appropriate for you.

Move north if you don't want pot shots taken at you by every new player with an Enfield.

[andrewhatesyou 1]

So stop interacting with people you morons. I know if there was an apocalypse I would only help the people I knew. If you want to play with people get in a ts with them. I see nothing wrong with shooting on sight as it adds a fear and paranoid feeling to the game. My friends and I shoot every person we see and we get killed too. Get over your death and move on you kids.

[maxim_malcon@yahoo.com 0]

So stop interacting with people you morons. I know if there was an apocalypse I would only help the people I knew. If you want to play with people get in a ts with them. I see nothing wrong with shooting on sight as it adds a fear and paranoid feeling to the game. My friends and I shoot every person we see and we get killed too. Get over your death and move on you kids.

Read my post.

This game has much more to offer than just PvP, and that more is "co-op" experience without metagaming, what you are doing with your buddies over vent does not "simulate" a zombie apocalypse.

Yeah, I guess it's perfectly normal for you to wake up amongst the coastal rivers during an apocalypse and immediately know who your buddies are from miles away. How pathetic.

The karma system is being worked on anyway, why do you think Rocket tested out bandit skins and now heart beating features? To find the ideal solution that would stop the "shoot on sight" mentality.

[Nightmare_Pwner 2]

Shootin people on sight IS REALISTIC.

Its a fucking zombie Apoc. You don't know he inner evil and satanic cultist fucks that will emerge and thrive in a real life Zombie Apoc.

I await the day I can rape, murder, pillage and rape with no consequences from law or government. The day it hits. The local high school with sluts here I come.

[zombiegenesis 0]

Shootin people on sight IS REALISTIC.

Its a fucking zombie Apoc. You don't know he inner evil and satanic cultist fucks that will emerge and thrive in a real life Zombie Apoc.

I await the day I can rape' date=' murder, pillage and rape with no consequences from law or government. The day it hits. The local high school with sluts here I come.

[/quote']

Totally going into a police report~

[maxim_malcon@yahoo.com 0]

Shootin people on sight IS REALISTIC.

Its a fucking zombie Apoc. You don't know he inner evil and satanic cultist fucks that will emerge and thrive in a real life Zombie Apoc.

I await the day I can rape' date=' murder, pillage and rape with no consequences from law or government. The day it hits. The local high school with sluts here I come.

[/quote']

You are a teenager driven retarded with your hormones.

Grow up son.

[Bluegobln 0]

I like the idea of murders causing you to have increased respawn timer. I think it should be exponential, for example:

1 murder = 15 minute

2 murder = 30 minute

3 murder = 1 hour

4 murder = 2 hours

5 murder = 4

6 = 8

7 = 16

8 = 32

At the point where you've got 9 murders without dying you're going to be locked out of the game for almost 3 days if you get killed. It certainly makes for an interesting choice for those who want to murder others.

Before you judge, realize this: each person you kill most likely has anywhere from 15 minutes to 15 HOURS put into their character to acquire items, weapons, and survival necessities. You just GET THAT FREE OFF THEIR CORPSE AND COST THEM THAT TIME.

So assuming let's say each person you kill has 5 hours played on their character. That is a very conservative average in my opinion unless you're camping coastal towns in which case I think more severe punishment is just fine.

First kill costs you 15 minutes for the 5 hours lost for the other player.

Your second kill costs you 30 minutes... that's practically the same thing, completely tolerable.

Your third kill finally starts costing you real time, 1 hour.

At this point based on the above average you've cost OTHER players 15 hours of gameplay for your 1 hour + 5 hours of gameplay yourself (if you die).

Take this to the natural point where it starts to turn strongly against the murderer - 7 kills nets you 8 hours delay compared to the 5 cost your kill. You also most likely have 7 people's gear from looting their corpses.

The only abuse potential I can see is for groups of people to take turns killing other players and then killing each other, holding the loot, and running back from their respawn - thus allowing them to keep killing but keep their respawn timers low. I think that is also an acceptable trade for what it costs them. (Especially if they are a long ways inland)