Too many guns or just silly spawning

[rickyriot 1009]

I don't like the number of guns that are available, I just don't think that in an event such as a zombie apocalypse they would be so common and just lying about. They would be used and the ones that were left would have hardly any ammo left.

 

However, personally I'd like to see a whole lot less food spawning. We now have many other ways of getting food than tins lying about and maybe if you had to put a bit of effort into things then people would spend less time shooting and more time farming, fishing and hunting.

 

It might even cut down on the KoS/bandits as shooting people who have food ruins the items, resulting in people needing to rob others rather than just kill them on sight.

[PongoZ 127]

they have added a bunch of for all intents and purposes exaclty the same eastern block guns that use different mags and ammo.

But the frequency over all didnt change so you are dividing your chances of getting a gun- ammo- magazine match into at least a third, and it was already kind of hard.

 

So we all have to carry tones of this crap arround in hopes of coming up with 3 cherries on the wheel and wining.

Not sure its what they intended and it feels dumb.

 

Put a magazine with every weapon spawn.

[PhillyT 554]

I don't like the number of guns that are available, I just don't think that in an event such as a zombie apocalypse they would be so common and just lying about. They would be used and the ones that were left would have hardly any ammo left.

 

However, personally I'd like to see a whole lot less food spawning. We now have many other ways of getting food than tins lying about and maybe if you had to put a bit of effort into things then people would spend less time shooting and more time farming, fishing and hunting.

 

It might even cut down on the KoS/bandits as shooting people who have food ruins the items, resulting in people needing to rob others rather than just kill them on sight.

 

 

Guns are a little high right now.  But anyone thinking it will become a melee game is delusional.  It won't because it wouldn't be fun.  There are many zombie survival games. Guns are EVERYWHERE in real life.  Most people in the US have several firearms if they have any.  There are more firearms in the US than people.  I assume there are far less in Russia, but there are going to be lots of guns.  As they say, no matter how hard you try, you can only use one at a time!  A person might take a couple with them if they were fleeing an apocalypse, but every other cabin in the woods would likely have an old shotgun or hunting rifle in it.

[therandomredstone 432]

I seriously doubt it will ever be as rare as you are implying here.  Not only will it make the game stupid, it isn't possible given the actual number of servers and the number of potential players.  Dayz will not reach a saturation point where there will be so many players and so few servers that guns will become an impossible goal.  Military weapons will likely continue to be rare, but the idea that double barrel shotguns and mosins will suddenly vanish is silly and unlikely.

Mosins, actually are planned to be much much rarer, but I suppose you are right, at least have curtain types of shotguns and maybe a pistol or something be one of the not-so rare things. But they are planning to make it, so you don't find a gun the first 30 minutes in a game, which right now is the case.

[PhillyT 554]

Mossins should be super common.  They are everywhere in real life.  Take the LRS off them and they are much more balanced.  I don't know, I think they will find a balance.  I have faith.

[rickyriot 1009]

Guns are a little high right now.  But anyone thinking it will become a melee game is delusional.  It won't because it wouldn't be fun.  There are many zombie survival games. Guns are EVERYWHERE in real life.  Most people in the US have several firearms if they have any.  There are more firearms in the US than people.  I assume there are far less in Russia, but there are going to be lots of guns.  As they say, no matter how hard you try, you can only use one at a time!  A person might take a couple with them if they were fleeing an apocalypse, but every other cabin in the woods would likely have an old shotgun or hunting rifle in it.

 

I never said it should become exclusively melee, so let's drop that assumption, however whether it would be fun is a matter of debate as personally I like DayZ for being a zombie survival game rather than a kiddie shoot em up which sadly it seems to be at the moment with the plethora of guns there are. The comparison to the US is not relevant as not only is America an extreme example of gun ownership, it's not equivalent to Eastern Europe; both in quality and quantity.

 

Also you need to look at the context, if a zombie apocalypse was to happen (and clearly this is all conjecture), people wouldn't just leave weapons and ammo lying about. Those escaping would have taken them when they went and the ones that were left behind would have been used and probably only left because it had run out of ammunition. The idea you could find modern and undamaged weaponry just lying about with full ammo clips is just not realistic - obviously "realism" is a all down to debate here.

 

 

Thankfully with the new lead taking over coming from a hunting game background that should emphasise the survival aspect far more, leaving those who just want to shoot things going back to Battlefield or CoD. Is there a place for guns in the game? Of course there is. Should they be a primary element, definitely not. It will, imo, ruin the game if that was the case.

[rickyriot 1009]

. But they are planning to make it, so you don't find a gun the first 30 minutes in a game, which right now is the case.

 

Ideally several hours, if not more, it might stop the CoD players who will get bored and leave us survival fans to get on with the important task of surviving.

 

If people like the Chernarus environment with it's realistic crafting and interaction then there is Arma, for those who want the challenge of struggling against the elements and the "locals" with very little resources then DayZ would be the choice. 

[PhillyT 554]

Several hours is absurd. There are 50 million guns in Russia. If you are talking about a small area like Chernarus, where two armed forces fought and died, you would likely have a high concentration.

You want gun rarity to reduce the KOS aspects. I don't think that's the answer, and I doubt that will factor in. When zombies work and the survival mechanics operate, you will likely see Kos banditry deemphasized. Even now you can easily avoid it.

[Karmaterror 982]

I never said it should become exclusively melee, so let's drop that assumption, however whether it would be fun is a matter of debate as personally I like DayZ for being a zombie survival game rather than a kiddie shoot em up which sadly it seems to be at the moment with the plethora of guns there are. The comparison to the US is not relevant as not only is America an extreme example of gun ownership, it's not equivalent to Eastern Europe; both in quality and quantity.

 

Also you need to look at the context, if a zombie apocalypse was to happen (and clearly this is all conjecture), people wouldn't just leave weapons and ammo lying about. Those escaping would have taken them when they went and the ones that were left behind would have been used and probably only left because it had run out of ammunition. The idea you could find modern and undamaged weaponry just lying about with full ammo clips is just not realistic - obviously "realism" is a all down to debate here.

 

 

Thankfully with the new lead taking over coming from a hunting game background that should emphasise the survival aspect far more, leaving those who just want to shoot things going back to Battlefield or CoD. Is there a place for guns in the game? Of course there is. Should they be a primary element, definitely not. It will, imo, ruin the game if that was the case.

 

I hope it ends up that way aswell, what you described was exactly how I would love dayz to end up. I fear that the community will react so negatively when they tune it that way though, that they will fold and up the gunz again :(

 

Can only hope that as the survival aspects start to really stack up and be balanced, that it naturally moves players after "quick" gunfights back to more suitable games :)

[PhillyT 554]

You want artificial scarcity to respond to an issue that is already avoidable. You're right, if they turn DayZ into a zombie version of The Forest, there will be nobody playing it.

The guns aren't themselves an issue. They add a great component to the game. You can deal with them in different ways.

[rickyriot 1009]

Several hours is absurd. There are 50 million guns in Russia. If you are talking about a small area like Chernarus, where two armed forces fought and died, you would likely have a high concentration.

You want gun rarity to reduce the KOS aspects. I don't think that's the answer, and I doubt that will factor in. When zombies work and the survival mechanics operate, you will likely see Kos banditry deemphasized. Even now you can easily avoid it.

 

As it's holiday season, I don't want to seem harsh, however you might have read my post, but it's clear you didn't understand it. Perhaps Battlefield or Arma is what you are looking for.

 

 

You want artificial scarcity to respond to an issue that is already avoidable. 

 

Again, you seem to have completely missed the point.

 

 

Still we will just have to see what the devs end up delivering. With the lead replacing Rocket coming from a hunting background I am hoping the survival aspect is ramped up and the gunplay reduced. You clearly disagree. C'est la vie.

[PhillyT 554]

I read your post.  I have been reading your posts for almost a year.  I understand what you want and what you said.  One thing you seem to be missing here is that not everything posted is in reference to you and your posts.  You want fewer guns as a means of reducing killing and accentuating the survival aspects. I don't have an issue with that.  

 

There is a serious difference between wanting hours to pass before finding a gun when you can run from one end of Chernarus to the other in less than an hour. Guns aren't that rare, and making them that rare isn't an effective response to a problem perceived in the alpha by some people.  Bohemia isn't going to produce an extreme niche game.  They will make something broad based with wide appeal.  There can be increased survival components and a slightly reduced gun count, but thinking hours and hours should pass without finding a fire arm assumes zombies will be terrible and non-threatening.  If that i the case you will have an even less appealing and unplayable game.

[rickyriot 1009]

I read your post.  I have been reading your posts for almost a year.  I understand what you want and what you said.  One thing you seem to be missing here is that not everything posted is in reference to you and your posts.  You want fewer guns as a means of reducing killing and accentuating the survival aspects. I don't have an issue with that.

Perhaps I was too harsh in my previous reply, but we do definitely seem to come from different ends of the spectrum here.

 

..and making them that rare isn't an effective response to a problem perceived in the alpha by some people.

What is this "problem" you keep mentioning. I hate to ask you to state the obvious, but if you think that the killing is the "problem" I have, it's not. Killing will always happen even if you just armed people with rocks. It's the "realism" (that word again) element that I have issue with if you have guns so readily available, and even more so if ammo was equally if not more common.

 

Bohemia isn't going to produce an extreme niche game.

A zombie survival with a highly complex level of interaction with the items and the environment is pretty much a niche game. Turning it into a plain FPS would stop it being so. The reason DayZ gets the community it does is based on several aspects, but one of them is primarily because it is different to other games, and in a sense it's niche value.

 

They will make something broad based with wide appeal.  There can be increased survival components and a slightly reduced gun count, but thinking hours and hours should pass without finding a fire arm assumes zombies will be terrible and non-threatening.

 

Where does that assumption come from? I want harder zombies, ones that attack in hordes where as a new spawn you are clinging to life, and are forced to cobble together crafted weapons just to survive long enough to go foraging for food, let alone weaponry. 

 

This is the epitome of a zombie apocalypse survival game, which is the raison detre of DayZ. 

 

If that i the case you will have an even less appealing and unplayable game.

In your opinion, and one I feel is based on assumptions of what it is I am describing, and it's why I said you didn't seem to be getting what I meant. Reducing guns doesn't make this game any less dangerous either from the zombies or your fellow players.

However, what does make the game less appealing and, to be honest, utterly tedious, is spawning, running to the nearest weapons spawning point, then immediately setting out to kill other players. To me that is a waste of the environment being created here and if that was the end game then why bother with any of the survival aspects at all?

Obviously when we discuss "realism" it's all supposition and conjecture. Who knows what a zombie apocalypse would be like, however I do believe we have all read enough post apocalyptic fiction (and not the Hollywood/TV trite rendition of it) to know that whatever was useful would be scavenged quickly and things like guns and ammo wouldn't be just left lying about.

[Freshmen 28]

I just hope that they wont introduce real snipers like m107/.50barret. Its what killed ISS.

 

Bro, you can bring down Space Stations with that?

Edited December 25, 2014 by Freshmen

[rickyriot 1009]

Bro, you can bring down Space Stations with that?

 

ISS you say?

[McWendy 675]

^ brilliant.

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

No need to worry about the details of loot spawned just yet. We're still working on the system itself, balancing of it will come once that system starts to perform how we want it to.

[sneakydudes 278]

A zombie survival with a highly complex level of interaction with the items and the environment is pretty much a niche game. Turning it into a plain FPS would stop it being so. The reason DayZ gets the community it does is based on several aspects, but one of them is primarily because it is different to other games, and in a sense it's niche value.

 

 

Nothing complex about any of this. Complex would be spending 1 week crafting a bow and arrow to kill the boar.  Not everything you want is what others want. Your 1% niche doesn't sell to everyone.

[punkvegita 44]

I hate how ppl use the word realism to back up there arguments, guys stfu, it's a zombie apocalypse game, keyword game haha than zombie, it's as real as it gets sure but for you guys to say, O I think there should be less or more gun because that would be more realistic is absurd. It's about entertaining the player, so once everything is in and things are acting accordingly I'm sure the devs will try to make it as fun and balanced as they possibly can. And if not there will always be mods to get your pricks hard. Right now though you guys are arguing for no reason.

[rickyriot 1009]

Nothing complex about any of this. Complex would be spending 1 week crafting a bow and arrow to kill the boar.  Not everything you want is what others want. Your 1% niche doesn't sell to everyone.

 

In isolation, no, in context it very much is so. You seem to think my ideas represent just 1% of the DayZ community, you couldn't be more wrong.

On the flip side if you just want to run around with guns and shoot people, go and play other FPS games that are primarily designed for that exact experience. It's clear DayZ is more than that.

 

I hate how ppl use the word realism to back up there arguments, guys stfu, it's a zombie apocalypse game, keyword game haha than zombie, it's as real as it gets sure but for you guys to say, O I think there should be less or more gun because that would be more realistic is absurd. It's about entertaining the player, so once everything is in and things are acting accordingly I'm sure the devs will try to make it as fun and balanced as they possibly can. And if not there will always be mods to get your pricks hard. Right now though you guys are arguing for no reason.

So what you are saying is that the environment should have no back story, no items should be in context, that there is no timeline or reasoning for the immersion? That is an incredibly narrow minded view of the game which has gone out of it's way to develop all those things; context; timeline and back story. To complain that people are discussing the pros and cons of these things, and to discuss them in exactly the place they should be discussed, borders on the strange. You are not forced to read or reply, and to be honest I really don't understand why you would frequent an open public forum if open public forum debate is so frustrating for you.

[comikz 218]

I've read several posts by people using the word, "Realism", as a means to backup their feelings towards how guns and ammunition should or should not be in a game such as DayZ.

Several of them seem to have quiet valid reasons, and some, you can just tell are covering up their true feelings in an attempt to appear as something else...

 

Like the people who in the past have posted irate threads about being KoS'd and labeling people as CoD/Battlefield rejects, ect. Then these very same people will either reply or post a thread about "Realism" and how the devs should reduce the amount of guns and ammunition in game to establish a sense of true realism, which in reality their saying, " I don't like being shot, devs please nerf gun/ammunition spawns into the ground, so I can continue playing Zombie Slayer 2014..."

 

Then you have the people who post things like, " I feel it would be more realistic if there where less guns because, well they wouldn't just be laying around all over the place, ect ect."

 

Then you have people like me who feel there should be a balance between time spent and items found, right now, I spend 70% of my playtime gearing up, not because I want too, it's that it takes so bloody long to get attachments/mags/ammo tin ect. not because I'm obsessed with, hurr durr military lootz, but because most of the guns that have that "feel" to me are indeed the higher tier guns.

[mugur 123]

@PhillyT: if you need mags: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/179455-new-hobby-working-for-others/?p=2188522

[slippery gypsy 107]

add more zombies problem solved 

[rickyriot 1009]

I've read several posts by people using the word, "Realism", as a means to backup their feelings towards how guns and ammunition should or should not be in a game such as DayZ.

Several of them seem to have quiet valid reasons, and some, you can just tell are covering up their true feelings in an attempt to appear as something else...

 

Like the people who in the past have posted irate threads about being KoS'd and labeling people as CoD/Battlefield rejects, ect. Then these very same people will either reply or post a thread about "Realism" and how the devs should reduce the amount of guns and ammunition in game to establish a sense of true realism, which in reality their saying, " I don't like being shot, devs please nerf gun/ammunition spawns into the ground, so I can continue playing Zombie Slayer 2014..."

 

Then you have the people who post things like, " I feel it would be more realistic if there where less guns because, well they wouldn't just be laying around all over the place, ect ect."

 

Then you have people like me who feel there should be a balance between time spent and items found, right now, I spend 70% of my playtime gearing up, not because I want too, it's that it takes so bloody long to get attachments/mags/ammo tin ect. not because I'm obsessed with, hurr durr military lootz, but because most of the guns that have that "feel" to me are indeed the higher tier guns.

All fair and well, but the question I would ask is what is your prime objective within the game? That is not a trick question so I can somehow talk down your game style, it's a genuine one.

I have no problem with admitting I would prefer there to be hardly any guns in the game, and that most weapons are crafted ones, but this is neither from some sort of hipster extremist viewpoint nor is it a complaint about being shot. I started playing online FPS with Quake 1 in the late 90's and in my time have been a member of some of the best clans in the EU/UK for games like MoH:AA and CoD. Being part of a point and shoot collective no longer interests me, if anything it bores me. This is why I play DayZ, because it is different and because of it's potential to differentiate itself from the plethora of mainstream dullard first person shooters. I think it would be a massive shame for it to develop into something similar.

[sneakydudes 278]

All fair and well, but the question I would ask is what is your prime objective within the game? That is not a trick question so I can somehow talk down your game style, it's a genuine one.

I have no problem with admitting I would prefer there to be hardly any guns in the game, and that most weapons are crafted ones, but this is neither from some sort of hipster extremist viewpoint nor is it a complaint about being shot. I started playing online FPS with Quake 1 in the late 90's and in my time have been a member of some of the best clans in the EU/UK for games like MoH:AA and CoD. Being part of a point and shoot collective no longer interests me, if anything it bores me. This is why I play DayZ, because it is different and because of it's potential to differentiate itself from the plethora of mainstream dullard first person shooters. I think it would be a massive shame for it to develop into something similar.

No 1% is exactly what your referring too. There is already a zombie crafters game out there. 7 days to die isn't it? This is very much so aiming for the guns, and crafting and the realism of PVP. You wont find enough to do, with PVE. Heck there isn't enough to do now.

 

Right clicking an item isn't so hardcore.