Clarification on "Base Building"

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I believe it's time we get some clarification about base building.  A lot of people seem to think that we will be able to make houses out of sticks and stones and wind up building massive fortresses.  This type of gameplay is something I really hope does not make it into DayZ.  If this has been their plan from the start I don't know why they went with the name DayZ.  They could have just called it Epoch SA as that's all it will be.   Personally I'm only hoping for boarding up the houses that are already in game.  Hopefully a developer will frequent these forums at some point in the future to give us better clarification on this.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Caboose187

[a_ruttle 199]

Hopefully just camps with a few fences/sandbag walls or something.

[Zarniwoop 1193]

Yep, agreed. Building big structures from thin air is something I've always been turned off by in Epoch, H1Z1 etc etc.

 

Foxholes and other dugout style things with fences are good additions. Not sky fortresses.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Zarniwoop

[sachad 1016]

I like the idea of taking existing buildings and fortifying them with sandbags and planks. But that's about it. 

[Whyherro123 2283]

If an illiterate medieval peasant could dig a ditch and build a palisade with little more than an axe and a mattock, we should be able to do the same. Should it take A LOT of man hours, a lot of material, and a lot of people? Of course. Will it be bulletproof and impregnable? Of course not. Would it severely slow down any zombie trying to get in, and present a challenge to a player attempting the same? Yes. 

Of course, something like this:

 

 

would be literally the "top end" of basebuilding, maybe a major clan dedicates a lot of time and effort into surrounding their main camp with said palisade. 

 

Literally any asshole with a hand and 2 brain cells to rub together can put together a rough wall made of boards using a hammer and some nails. Would it be insulated against the cold, wet, and wind? No, but insulation can be brought about by tarpaper, found in industrial locations, or through liberal application of mud and bark. Even still, that should take a substantial amount of time.

 

I've built a decently-sized compound (5 people), with a nice shelter (with beds!), a firepit with retaining wall, a wood-drying rack, a skinning post, and a wash stand. All surrounded by moved bushes, to make the place kinda-sorta hidden. Took me and the guys about a week, with about 5-6 hours of work a day. 

 

Thing about basebuilding is, it is, by its very definition, a bold statement. Claiming a place as yours essentially screams "This place is mine, and I will be here for a while!". To me, that screams "END GAME", where you have the time, the manpower, and, probably most importantly, the available FOOD, to be able to stay in once place , even only semi-permanently. This means (TO ME) that the building of actual bases is a serious endeavor, one that would not just be helped, but REQUIRES, properly fleshed out agriculture, animal husbandry, trapping, etc etc etc, a reliable source for food in the long-term. Fortifying a cabin in the middle of Black Forest is all good, but your used up all your saved food building your fortifications, and now you can't get out of the forest without starving to death.......woops.

 

Basebuilding ideally should be a clan-based endeavor, something taking a lot of time and effort. I don't consider stashing a tent somewhere to be basebuilding, because it lacks permanence. I really dislike how tents are only really used for, and thought of, as gear-storing devices. TENTS ARE FOR SLEEPING. Can you store some stuff in a tent with you as you sleep? Yes. Would I do it long term, as in, leave a tent in the woods stuffed with food, bandages, and ammunition? NOPE. To me, that tent is more valuable for its protection-from-the-elements qualities, than for the ability to store anything in it. Face it, if all you have is a backpack, a gun, and a tent, chances are you dont need that much stuff. You would be better off being nomadic, than being tied down to where your tent was.

 

I (and I know that this would unfortunately NEVER happen) would love it if our characters stayed in-game when we logged out. Went to sleep, fucked off, whatever. This way, gameplay would become much more strategic. So, you would build a shelter, or set up a tent, to safely protect yourself from the elements while you logged out. Shelterbuilding could be the "Basebuilding 101", where you build some form of shelter from natural materials, in order to both store gear and to safely log out. (This could be done even without the "logout thing" I like) There are many kinds of shelters that can be built and they take various amounts of time to build, and can hold various numbers of people and equipment.

 

Lean to: Fastest and easiest to build, least protection (only blocks 1 direction, allows heat to dissipate)

 

A-Frame: Most protection, longest and hardest (requires most materials) to build:

 

These shelters (and many, many more) could be the intermediary between living nomad-style in a tent (or even without one!), and having a nice set up with a farm and a fortified house.

 

This blog actually shows the building process of a decent long-term shelter. It is effectively a house, and, well, I like it! Up-size it a bit, and you could fit a decently-sized clan in there.

 

http://joeoleary1.blogspot.com/2013_11_01_archive.html

Edited December 19, 2014 by Whyherro123

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

<snip>

Those illiterate peasants still had to use tools to chop the trees, cut them to roughly the same height, chisel the tips, dig proper hole depth, etc.  You talk like it's as simple as 1,2,3.  If you want to turn this game into Rust good on ya, I definitely won't stick around for garbage like that.

[Irish. 4886]

I believe it's time we get some clarification about base building.  A lot of people seem to think that we will be able to make houses out of sticks and stones and wind up building massive fortresses.  This type of gameplay is something I really hope does not make it into DayZ.  If this has been their plan from the start I don't know why they went with the name DayZ.  They could have just called it Epoch SA as that's all it will be.   Personally I'm only hoping for boarding up the houses that are already in game.  Hopefully a developer will frequent these forums at some point in the future to give us better clarification on this.

 

Are you kidding me brah?!

 

I want flying fortresses like I sawed on frankiez videos.  :|

[Dagwood 680]

^^that seemed a bit inflammatory... Anyway, I think base building should be a means of fortifying small structures in towns so that you have a place to retreat to should the zombies overwhelm you while looting. Or you could fortify the rear exit to the building your taking cover in so that zombies don't flank you while you're fighting off bandits.

Building standalone structures is a big time sink, which is what many gamers need to remain entertained. I, on the other hand, think development time would be better spent on other aspects of the game.

Wasn't pointing at you Irish! Just the ass-end above you...

Edited December 19, 2014 by Dagwood

[TheWizard14 372]

I don't think we should be able to build massive fortresses with a few pieces of wood or whatever either. Foritification and base building in my opinion would be boarding/foritifying an existing building or creating a small shed or trench.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Those illiterate peasants still had to use tools to chop the trees, cut them to roughly the same height, chisel the tips, dig proper hole depth, etc.  You talk like it's as simple as 1,2,3.  If you want to turn this game into Rust good on ya, I definitely won't stick around for garbage like that.

And you are acting like using an axe or a shovel requires 3 separate college degrees. I mentioned the two tools in the first place; an axe and a mattock (pretty much just a different style of pickaxe)

 

Cut things to roughly the same height? Holy shit, guys, we just lay them next to each other, line up one end, and mark the length we want cut off! I NEVER WOULD'VE GUESSED.

You mean we have to use an axe to rough-cut the ends off a log? HOW WOULD WE EVER DO THAT?

We have to dig a hole to a certain depth? I DON'T KNOW WHAT DO?

 

It pretty much is as simple as 1,2,3 (or, really, Cut trees, cut to length, dig ditch, upright trees in ditch, fill back in ditch, tamp down, sooooo 1,2,3,4,5,6). We aren't building a fucking rocket., or even a complicated structure.

 

Again, any asshole with a hand and a hammer can nail boards together. I am not talking about building a fucking motte-and-bailey castle here, just what amounts to a sturdy fence and a couple of roughed-out board walls. And that is the top of the line, requiring many MANY man hours, materials, and people. Not Rust where you can throw together a wall by yourself in seconds.

[nexventor 429]

I have no problem with building what ever you like, You want to build big fuck off sky buildings then be prepared to be targeted by 90% of the population, especially when heli's come into effect.

 

I just pray for the following

 

- NO domes of protection, like epoch, if you can find a way in undetected then you should be able to raid peoples bases. 

- Craft time should be near or equal to destruction time/resources eg If a wall can be knocked down in 3 seconds then the wall should take 3 seconds to build otherwise you get griefers whose sole purpose is just to go around destroy peoples hard work. If a wall needs c4 to be destroyed then the craft time of the c4 should be similar to the craft time of the wall etc etc

- You should be able to camouflage your building with paint nets etc

[Dagwood 680]

I have no problem with building what ever you like, You want to build big fuck off sky buildings then be prepared to be targeted by 90% of the population, especially when heli's come into effect.

I just pray for the following

- NO domes of protection, like epoch, if you can find a way in undetected then you should be able to raid peoples bases.

- Craft time should be near or equal to destruction time/resources eg If a wall can be knocked down in 3 seconds then the wall should take 3 seconds to build otherwise you get griefers whose sole purpose is just to go around destroy peoples hard work. If a wall needs c4 to be destroyed then the craft time of the c4 should be similar to the craft time of the wall etc etc

- You should be able to camouflage your building with paint nets etc

Why should game mechanics be built around you're sensitivity to griefers? Why is griefing a problem? Bases are end game. If you finish your base and it never gets destroyed, you've essentially ended the game. When your base gets fucked with, you have more to do.

What doesn't make sense is clans being able to put 100s of man hours into a base which makes it impossible for less... dedicated players (or newer to the hive) to breach their fortifications.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Why should game mechanics be built around you're sensitivity to griefers? Why is griefing a problem? Bases are end game. If you finish your base and it never gets destroyed, you've essentially ended the game. When your base gets fucked with, you have more to do.

What doesn't make sense is clans being able to put 100s of man hours into a base which makes it impossible for less... dedicated players (or newer to the hive) to breach their fortifications.

Which is why I suggested the "end-game" fortification be little more than a bunch of logs stood up on end in a ditch. Sure, they could put barbed wire or spikes at the base, but it is still a bunch of logs.With enough effort, you could simply pull them out of the ground. It just would take time, be really obvious, and make a lot of noise.

 

Or, you could just drive a truck through it. Or break the gate. 

[Etherious 907]

I also don't want epoch style building. I despise it so much. However, I could agree with Whyherro123 on this one. That type of base building is acceptable.

[gibonez 3633]

I just hope they stick to reality with it.

 

No instant log cabins or epoch style building.

 

Camps and walled off towns would be good .

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I just hope they stick to reality with it.

 

No instant log cabins or epoch style building.

 

Camps and walled off towns would be good .

Basic wall structures, watch towers, and two story houses - maybe with an electrical generator,  should be the end-game extent of base building.

 

Granted, I'd be perfectly fine with it if they made all of the options very diverse and complex, but nothing excessive.

 

There are those diggers and bulldozers they added at the quarry (and may be added to other places), so it's completely possible we could use those as actual construction vehicles.

[nexventor 429]

Why should game mechanics be built around you're sensitivity to griefers? Why is griefing a problem? Bases are end game. If you finish your base and it never gets destroyed, you've essentially ended the game. When your base gets fucked with, you have more to do.

What doesn't make sense is clans being able to put 100s of man hours into a base which makes it impossible for less... dedicated players (or newer to the hive) to breach their fortifications.

 

Why to completely misunderstand  :thumbsup:

 

Why should game mechanics be built around you're sensitivity to griefers? - Im not sensitive to griefers at all, if you had seen any of my videos you would know I am one.

Why is griefing a problem? - It's not, it can be though. Imbalanced game mechanics make people stop playing the game and therefore leaving me with less people to kill.... i don't like having less people to kill

Bases are end game. - There is no such thing in DayZ

If you finish your base and it never gets destroyed, you've essentially ended the game. - See above

When your base gets fucked with, you have more to do. - Einstein over here  :thumbsup: 

What doesn't make sense is clans being able to put 100s of man hours into a base which makes it impossible for less... dedicated players (or newer to the hive) to breach their fortifications.  - What doesn't make sense is your entire sentence. Try again.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Basic wall structures, watch towers, and two story houses - maybe with an electrical generator,  should be the end-game extent of base building.

 

Granted, I'd be perfectly fine with it if they made all of the options very diverse and complex, but nothing excessive.

 

There are those diggers and bulldozers they added at the quarry (and may be added to other places), so it's completely possible we could use those as actual construction vehicles.

I also keep seeing billboards for tractors with multiple attachment options. If there is any vehicle I want more, it is that. The amount of tasks you can put that thing to is amazing....if you have the attachments, of course.

 

Rototilling

cutting light brush

attaching a hydraulic log splitter

dozer blade w/ lifter

digging attachment

 

And those are just the ones I've personally worked with.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Why should game mechanics be built around you're sensitivity to griefers? Why is griefing a problem? Bases are end game. If you finish your base and it never gets destroyed, you've essentially ended the game. When your base gets fucked with, you have more to do.

What doesn't make sense is clans being able to put 100s of man hours into a base which makes it impossible for less... dedicated players (or newer to the hive) to breach their fortifications.

Often times the best deterrent to attack is not force in and of itself, but instead, the show of force. Make something such a pain in the ass to attack, and very few people will attack it. Such as it is with my palisade idea; it isn't that it would be REALLY hard to get through, it just looks like it would. So, would you risk running up to the wall, attaching a chain to it from the back of your truck and driving away, all while getting shot at? ......Probably not. I wouldn't, unless I had my whole clan behind me.

 

And, yes, that totally makes sense. That is why the clan built the fortification, is it not? Artificial balancing is STUPID and a detriment to the game. If someone, or a clan, puts 100s of man-hours into a project, I would expect it to be at least worth the time and effort. Not something a freshspawn can run up to and knock down with an axe in a single swing. Or build by themselves, for that matter.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

 If someone, or a clan, puts 100s of man-hours into a project, I would expect it to be at least worth the time and effort. Not something a freshspawn can run up to and knock down with an axe in a single swing. Or build by themselves, for that matter.

Way to contradict yourself.

 

If an illiterate medieval peasant could dig a ditch and build a palisade with little more than an axe and a mattock, 

[CJ_14 105]

There will be minor structures like sheds and such, but mainly just tents with fireplaces some barricade-like walls and traps around. At least that's what I heard on a livestream

[Dagwood 680]

Why to completely misunderstand :thumbsup:

Why should game mechanics be built around you're sensitivity to griefers? - Im not sensitive to griefers at all, if you had seen any of my videos you would know I am one.

Why is griefing a problem? - It's not, it can be though. Imbalanced game mechanics make people stop playing the game and therefore leaving me with less people to kill.... i don't like having less people to kill

Bases are end game. - There is no such thing in DayZ

If you finish your base and it never gets destroyed, you've essentially ended the game. - See above

When your base gets fucked with, you have more to do. - Einstein over here :thumbsup:

What doesn't make sense is clans being able to put 100s of man hours into a base which makes it impossible for less... dedicated players (or newer to the hive) to breach their fortifications. - What doesn't make sense is your entire sentence. Try again.

That last sentence was the whole point... 5 players putting 10 hours each into a base over one weekend have together put 50 hours into their base. You're suggesting that 2 raiders attacking the base should need to put in 25 hours each to get into the fortress.

What if it only took one hour for 5 players to erect. You think it should take 5 hours for a player to breach? Wtf would they be doing for 5 hours? Attacking the gate with an axe over and over?

While I agree that game balance is not something to ignore, I do not agree that balancing should be done in regards to base building/protection/destruction to prevent griefing.

And for future reference, just because I disagree with something you said, doesn't mean you need to call me names or be rude in your response.

[CJFlint 357]

I think base building should be with in reason. Blocking doors, maybe more tent types, or crafted tents, maybe fences, and metal objects, sand bags and the like. Epoc has down right not realistic base building. So I say with in reason.

 

Also ghosting, is another issue that should be looked into. I mean what the hell is the point of having a base if another clan could just have someone spawn inside of it. So currently I see it more for storing on a private shard with the current engine then anything. Plus the server wipes once a week kind of defeats the reason for having one. I am sure in the future that will happen less often if at all.

Edited December 19, 2014 by CJFlint

[nexventor 429]

That last sentence was the whole point... 5 players putting 10 hours each into a base over one weekend have together put 50 hours into their base. You're suggesting that 2 raiders attacking the base should need to put in 25 hours each to get into the fortress.

 

Not at all. I am suggesting that it take 2 raiders equivalent of 25hrs each to DESTROY the whole fortress/base. To raid people only need to break portions of the base. Raiding a well thought out and constructed base should be no easy task, otherwise you are saying that the game should benefit casual players, thats BS.

 

 

What if it only took one hour for 5 players to erect. You think it should take 5 hours for a player to breach? Wtf would they be doing for 5 hours? Attacking the gate with an axe over and over?

 

Again NO! That is not equal is it. Think about it. 5 hrs for a complete base = 5 hrs to complete destruction. To breach would be far far less as you only need to destroy one segment of a wall. My point is you don't need to completely destroy a base to raid it the only people who want to completely destroy is griefers (or pissed off admins) and if they want to do that (cool) but it should be just as hard as building it or you will get mass people leaving the game. I have seen it happen many a time. They might as well have no base building at all, if that is the case.

 

[Private Evans 1303]

With world containers coming, persistent fireplaces etc ect  I see absolutely no sense in playermade buildings. Being able to craft and place fortifications, barricades and traps around existing structutes is all we need  :) ...not talking about camping in the woods and barricading some windows , this is planned anyway